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1/6 Committee Has Received "Hundreds" of Documents from National Archives; Sources: Giuliani Led Plot to Install Fake Electors in 7 States; Adele Postpones Las Vegas Residency Due to COVID and "Delays"; Legendary Rock Singer Meat Loaf Dies at 74. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired January 21, 2022 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:33:57]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Former President Trump's White House documents are now with Congress.

A source tells CNN that the White House -- the House Select Committee, rather, investigating January 6th has received hundreds of pages from the National Archives as of this morning.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Now former President Trump had tried to block the House committee from ever seeing those documents, claiming executive privilege. But the Supreme Court did not buy that argument.

The panel is seeking more than 700 pages of records detailing what happened in the White House around the time of the capitol insurrection.

And we're also learning new details about attempts by Trump allies to overturn the 2020 election.

Multiple sources with direct knowledge tell CNN that Trump campaign officials, led by Rudy Giuliani, oversaw efforts in December of 2020 to put forward fake electors from seven states that Trump lost.

BLACKWELL: Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, Arizona, Wisconsin, Nevada and New Mexico.

CNN's Marshall Cohen is with us now.

So, Marshall, tell us more about this scheme.

[14:35:03]

MARSHALL COHEN, CNN REPORTER: Hey, guys. So, we're talking about the Electoral College process. It is pretty wonky but super important to the transition of power.

As you mentioned, in December of 2020, when the real electors were meeting in the statehouses across country, Trump supporters in those seven states were also meeting and basically proclaiming that they were the rightful electors.

Of course, it was a lie. They were not the legitimate electors.

But we're learning now that this didn't just happen. It wasn't spontaneous.

Multiple sources are telling us that this was coordinated and orchestrated by the Trump campaign officials, led by Rudy Giuliani.

There were conference calls where they organized this on the state level and Rudy was on one of the calls.

They did things like make sure they have enough supporters to fill the slots as electors. They were trying to find meeting rooms for those fake electors to meet in the statehouses or somewhere nearby.

And also, they were working on the language in fake certificates that these fake electors eventually signed and submitted to the National Archives here in D.C.

So, this is super important because it was a part of that plan, that scheme for Vice President Mike Pence to somehow throw the election to Trump by disqualifying Joe Biden's electors, replacing them with these fake electors.

That would have somehow given the presidency to Trump on January 6th.

And, guys, of course, we all know that didn't work. He wouldn't go along with it and Biden was sworn in.

CAMEROTA: Marshall, this is crazy, OK. This is reporting is just crazy stuff. What you're describing there. And it is straight up cheating. I mean, that is cheating.

Is anyone other than CNN investigating this?

COHEN: Yes. In plain language, it was an attempt to steal the election for Donald Trump. It didn't work.

But that doesn't mean that it wasn't important or shouldn't be looked at.

And attorneys general in many of these states, like Michigan, Nevada, Arizona, they are aware, they are looking.

They say that some of them say they're not going to confirm or deny an investigation, right?

But the Michigan attorney general herself went on TV and said that she believes this is a crime and illegal forgery.

But her office has not pressed any charges up until this point. They want federal prosecutors to take a look at it.

I could tell you, here in D.C., the January 6th committee is very interested. They've subpoenaed Rudy Giuliani. They've subpoenaed some other people involved.

And in those subpoenaed documents, they say expressly, we want to know about the efforts to subvert the Electoral College.

This is an effort to subvert our Constitution in how you are supposed to do it. And they tried this crooked scheme, and it didn't work.

CAMEROTA: OK. Marshall Cohen, thank you very much for all of that reporting.

Joining us now with more, Elie Honig, our CNN senior legal analyst AND a former assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York, and Renata Mariotti, a former prosecutor.

Elie, start right there, where I just started with Marshall. This is different. We all knew about how Rudy Giuliani was bringing bogus claims to court and then taking his chances, hoping to get lucky in court. Didn't work.

But coming up with a list of fake electors and people who are opposing as electors, how is that not a crime or been prosecuted yet?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: It is a great question that I share, Alisyn.

It is entirely unsurprising that Rudy Giuliani was at the center of all this. We see this from seven states. There's no way that seven different groups of people independently decided to do this.

It looked very much like this was result of a centralized effort. And it turns out Rudy Giuliani was right at the center of it.

And if we talk about is this a crime? Let me sort of put it this way.

It is a crime to submit any false documents to a governmental entity. Whether it is a false application for a driver's license, a false Social Security benefits application, a false tax return.

Here we're talking about something much bigger, much more important. This is way more than just some whacky legal strategy.

These are false -- falsified forged documents that were going to Congress and the National Archives to try to flip an election.

To me, it is many times more dangerous than the garden-variety false documents claim.

BLACKWELL: So, let me bring that to you, Renato.

Then, if it is a crime, it is a year since they've done this, why haven't the people who were on these fake slates of electors and the people who led this scheme been indicted?

RENATO MARIOTTI, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, first of all, investigations take time. They very well may be under investigation right now. We don't know exactly who is being talked to behind closed doors. But of course, I agree with Elie, that submitting false documents is a

crime. But you have to knowingly do it.

And I imagine they're trying to build evidence to ensure they could prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this was a knowing and willful effort to deceive, to create a false document in order to steal the election.

[14:40:10]

CAMEROTA: Elie, for people who have lost track of the Trump legal woes this week, we have a graphic to explain all that has happened this week and it is a lot.

The Atlanta attorney general has the phone call. And then the New York attorney general found Trump Organization business fraud.

The Supreme Court has cleared way for the House Select Committee to get those White House documents that President Trump had wanted to block.

But listen, we've been down this road before where there have been investigations and impeachments and it resulted in nothing.

How significant do you see that list?

HONIG: Well, Alisyn, Donald Trump this week has achieved the rarely seen triple crown of legal liability.

And on each of those fronts, there have been steps against Donald Trump this week.

In Congress, we're seeing a steady drum beat of damning revelations. And he got his clock cleaned in the Supreme Court.

In the realm of civil liability, there are several pending civil lawsuits.

And I think the New York attorney general, Letitia James, this week made clear she's likely to bring a civil lawsuit, not criminal, but civil against Donald Trump and/or the Trump Organization.

And then on the criminal front, we have the advancing investigation of the Fulton County district attorney who this week asked for permission for a special grand jury. That will give her subpoena power.

Now will there be consequences? I think, congressionally, sure. I think civilly, I think he's likely to get sued.

But the big question on everyone's mind is, will he be charged and convicted criminally? That we just can't know.

There were steps forward this week, but prosecutors had to be ready to prove the cases beyond a reasonable doubt. That is what we're all looking for. BLACKWELL: Renato, we so the that the hundreds of documents now that

were transferred from the National Archives that the Trump White House was trying to keep from the 1/6 committee, they now have those.

Explain how those fill in the puzzle pieces that have been missing thus far. The call logs and the records that show maybe drafted statements that were never delivered.

MARIOTTI: Absolutely. One thing that is really important is people talk about a scheme or a plan. To prove that, he really need to show the connections between people.

To have a conspiracy or a scheme, you need to show a plan of action and who was working together.

And the way you do that, Victor, is by looking at call logs, looking at communications, whether it is email, text messages, things like that.

But also looking, as you point out, to drafts of documents. There were reports of a draft executive order that was signed or that was meant for Trump's signature regarding the seizure of voting machines.

So I think that all of that sort of evidence is really what the committee needs to show that this was not just some random acts by a bunch of hooligans.

But it was concerted plan or scheme to overturn our constitutional system, which is unbelievable. A historical event that absolutely deserves our attention.

BLACKWELL: All right, Renato Mariotti, Elie Honig, good to see you. Thank you.

HONIG: Thank you.

MARIOTTI: Thanks.

BLACKWELL: Adele tearfully announced that she is postponing her Las Vegas residency just hours before it was set to begin. What she said caused that delay.

[14:43:27]

CAMEROTA: And he was a "Bat out of Hell." The music world is mourning the loss of the legend known as Meat Loaf.

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[14:48:33]

CAMEROTA: Grammy award-winning singer, Adele, cried as she announced that she has to postpone her Las Vegas residency because of COVID and delivery delays.

The first show was scheduled for tonight. But on social media yesterday, Adele said half of her team has COVID and it has been impossible to finish preparations for the show.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADELE, SINGER: I'm so sorry, but my show ain't ready. We've tried absolutely everything that we can to put it together in time. And for it to be good enough for you.

But we've been absolutely destroyed by delivery delays and COVID. I can't give you a -- right now and I'm --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Tickets broke records when they were released in December. Adele said her team is working to reschedule all of the dates.

Deputy music editor at "Variety," Jem Aswad, joins us now.

Jem, thanks for being with us.

Clearly, she is pained by having to postpone this. But for this to happen, the day before the show was supposed to start.

If it is so bad, I mean, didn't they know that this wasn't going to happen days ago.

JEM ASWAD, DEPUTY MUSIC EDITOR, "VARIETY": You would think so. The way she makes it sound, they were working to make it happen anyway.

I asked them to be more specific about the actual production delays, and why, for example, instead of cancelling the day before, she could have played a stripped-down acoustic set for people who traveled all that way., something.

[14:50:10}

I haven't gotten an answer yet so it must have been quite severe, whatever it was.

BLACKWELL: Something. I mean, for the international fans, they had to get tested, come into the country for this.

So "30" was the bestselling album of 2021. And for her to choose first a Vegas residency -- it was to try to avoid this.

To avoid the exposure of taking the crew all around the country, to avoid maybe the controls of different cities and arenas, to mitigate COVID.

How is this now impacting the industry that this big star now has to push this back?

ASWAD: Well, it's certainly more -- it is problematic, definitely.

We were actually talking about doing a story earlier this week about how Vegas residencies were sort of becoming the new touring. Silk Sonic just announced one. There's a lot of other acts who are doing residencies right now.

Which would seem to be an effective way to tour without the perils of touring because Vegas is very much set up for that.

The artist doesn't even have to leave the building. Most of these performance spaces are in hotels.

So people like Barry Manilow, who are doing residencies there, they would take the elevator down from their room, and could practically walk right on stage. But clearly it's not quite as simple as all that.

Now, having said that, there are lots of other Vegas residencies going forward, and without these problems, as far as we know, anyway.

And there are lots of chores still scheduled and still happening. Elton John just launched his tour the other night in New Orleans, and that is continuing.

So it hasn't affected everything but it's not good.

CAMEROTA: Jem, we need to talk about Meat Loaf for a second. What a sad day.

I mean, Meat Loaf, "Bat Out of Hell" was the soundtrack to my adolescence, and obviously millions of people's adolescence because it was such a, you know, huge hit.

And "Paradise by the Dashboard Light" is a masterpiece, I would say, a timeless masterpiece.

So let's just listen to it for one second.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SINGING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Look how he's performing, the whole stage presence, and the song writing.

Just tell me your thoughts on what Meat Loaf meant.

ASWAD: I mean, to be honest with you, I'm a little bit surprised at the extent of the outpouring, not that it's happening, but just at the level of it.

That album touched an awful lot of people. And it was very different for its time, even though, you know, there are a lot of long songs and a lot of big ambitious albums released in the 70s.

It was rare to see a rock 'n' roll performer who looked like that and sang about the things that he did. He had that big, huge voice, and he was big and huge himself.

And one thing they did that was very smart was they made early videos for that album. I saw him on TV as a kid. I saw him on "Saturday night live." he was almost impossible to ignore.

CAMEROTA: What I love about it, what I read recently, he and his song writing partner went to different record labels, and tried to sell their songs, and they were basically laughed out of L.A., like, you guys are cheesy, and this is, you know, really juvenile.

And then, the next year, it became one of the bestselling albums of all time. The people liked it, even if the critics weren't on board.

ASWAD: Yes, 100 percent. You can say this about so many eras. What was big in 1977? The Bee Gees. You can't get much farther from the Bee Gees than Meat Loaf.

And they were very long, very involved songs, difficult to make hit singles out of.

And he weighed about 250 pounds. So I get that, on the one hand. But if you listen to the record, it's undeniable.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Everything I needed to learn about sex, I learned from "Paradise by the Dashboard Lights."

BLACKWELL: All right. Let's save that quote.

(LAUGHTER)

BLACKWELL: Jem Aswad, thanks so much.

(CROSSTALK)

ASWAD: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Thank you, Jem.

BLACKWELL: And other loss. Comedian and actor, Louie Anderson, died today from complications of cancer. He was just 68 years old.

Won an Emmy, was known for stand up, game show hosting gigs, as well as roles in iconic films like "Ferris Bueller's Day Off" and "Coming to America."

[14:55:03]

More recently, he standard as Christine Baskets, the mother in the critically acclaimed TV show, "Baskets."

CAMEROTA: Comedian Gilbert Gottfried tweeted a photo with his friend, Bob Saget, and Louie Anderson. Writing, "This photo is very sad now. Rest in peace, Bob Saget. Rest in peace, Louie Anderson. Both good friends that will be missed."

These last few weeks have had more of its share than notable deaths.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Well, big news from the Justice Department. Prosecutors there are charging a man for allegedly making death threats against election workers in Georgia. We have the details ahead.

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