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Trump Drafted Order For Military To Seize Voting Machines; Republicans Seek Election Police Units To Combat Elusive Voter Fraud; Arizona Democrats Censures Kyrsten Sinema Over Filibuster Stance; Representative Madison Cawthorn Cleans Gun During Virtual House Hearing; New York Mayor Eric Adams Addresses Shooting Of NYPD Officers; FBI: Brian Laundrie Admitted He Killed Petito In Notebook Confession; U.S. Sends Military Aid To Ukraine Amid Russia Invasion Fears; CDC Stops Short Of Changing Definition of "Fully Vaccinated. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired January 22, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:23]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

How do you write a rough draft for a coup? We now have a chilling template courtesy of someone inside the Donald Trump White House. "Politico" obtained a draft of a Trump executive order from December 2020 that would have ordered the U.S. Military to seize voting machines empowering the Department of Defense to decide whether the election Trump just lost was fair or not.

It also directed the Justice Department to name a special counsel to oversee the effort and prosecute potential election-related crimes which Trump's outgoing attorney general said were inconsequential if nonexistent. The document is dated December 16th and wasn't signed but just two days later Axios reports that Trump had a meeting in the Oval Office with discredited lawyer Sidney Powell who was lobbying to become a special counsel.

If your memories were a little fuzzy about what she was up to at the time, take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNEY POWELL, TRUMP LAWYER: So we have mathematical evidence in a number of states of massive quantities of Trump votes being trashed, just simply put in the trash like you would on your computer with any file. And Biden votes being injected. That's addition to the flipping. President Trump won by a landslide. We are going to prove it and we are going to reclaim the United States of America for the people who vote for freedom.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Yes, that was all nonsense. Also at the Oval Office meeting, disgraced former National Security adviser Michael Flynn who seemed to be quoting directly from the draft order just a day later. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL FLYNN, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: He could immediately on his order seize every single one of these machines around the country on his order. He could also order -- he could order within the swing states if he wanted to, he could take military capabilities and he could place them in those states and basically rerun an election in each of those states.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: CNN has not been able to independently verify the draft, but it's believed to be part of a massive batch of documents, 700 pages worth, now in the hands of the House Select Committee on January 6th, and one of the things that Donald Trump fought like you know what to keep it out of public view.

Here to break it all down is former Nixon White House counsel and CNN contributor John Dean.

John, thanks for being with us. And thankfully this plan was never enacted, was never rolled into motion. But just the fact that it was being discussed reportedly is the stuff of banana republics.

JOHN DEAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: It certainly is. My immediate reaction in reading it when it was released was this looks like the handywork of Mike Flynn, it looks like Sidney Powell's influence, and -- but it doesn't follow any government knowledgeable lawyer had their hands on drafting this because it is so out of the typical form of executive orders.

ACOSTA: Yes, and what does it say about the scope of these reported plans? And what do you think it says about how the Justice Department needs to approach the people at the top who were pushing these measures? I mean, I suppose it underlines the importance of getting these documents into the hands of investigators. Not just with the committee but at the Justice Department.

DEAN: Well, the timing suggests this was a part of the tranche, the first tranche from the National Archives that either came from that or somebody who was aware of what was in that decided to leak this document. We don't know who did leak it of course. But it does tell us an awful lot about the thinking that was going on apparently in the Oval Office. And it is pretty frightening.

First of all, it's totally illegal. There are federal statutes that are not cited in this executive order that he is not trying to repeal that prohibit exactly this kind of use of the military. You can't use the active military to go around and seize every voting machine in the United States as this appears to contemplate.

It's just a lot of it, Jim, is just pure nonsense. It's based on conspiracy theories, the predicate for the action is a miscount up in Michigan that had already been corrected by the time this was issued. It is so deeply flawed that it just shows the characters involved were either misleading the president or just ill-informed and incompetent like Trump has repeatedly shown himself to be. And it is a pretty frightening document so it's good to get this out and air it.

[15:05:01]

ACOSTA: And to committee finally has all 700 pages of those White House documents that Trump tried to keep secret, and they expect to get perhaps these outtakes of his January 6th Rose Garden video. Just a reminder to our viewers, this was the address that Trump released several hours into the Capitol attack. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This was a fraudulent election. But we can't play into the hands of these people. We have to have peace. So go home, we love you, you are very special.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And that's the one that the White House put out. The committee, there are members of committee who are suggesting that in the outtakes he didn't even ask the rioters to leave the Capitol. What is the significance of those unused takes and what do you think the public reaction will be if they get a chance to see them?

DEAN: Well, you kind of hope that some dialogue was picked up in that recording as well around them as to what they were saying as, oh, we can't do that or could you try this. We don't know if the camera was running, if it was done on an iPhone, how it was recorded. The fact that he will obviously since they -- whatever is there was not released, he could say well, I didn't want that out, that was a mistake, it was just an early take. He can get around that.

But I think that it could show some of his thinking at least because apparently it was all extemporaneous. There were no speech writers involved. There were no -- there was no process involved whatsoever. This was just Trump off the top like he was tweeting. But he was sending a video to try to deal with a situation that was far out of hand. And this was so under-responding to it that that speaks for itself, too, Jim.

ACOSTA: Right. And John, I definitely wanted to ask you about this, this plot to have these bogus electors reversed Trump's loss in some seven states. Here is a former adviser to the Trump campaign admitting he was part of the scheme and laying out who was behind it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BORIS EPSHTEYN, FORMER TRUMP 2020 CAMPAIGN ADVISER: Yes, I was part of the process to make sure there were alternate electors for when as we hoped the challenges to the seated electors would be heard. Everything that was done was done illegally by the Trump legal team, by according to the rules, and under the leadership of Rudy Giuliani.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Yes, there's Boris Epshteyn, you know, essentially saying it was Rudy who was in charge of all this. How important is, John, to find out if someone in the White House gave Giuliani the green light or if Trump was directly involved in this?

DEAN: Well, it is important because it is clear that Rudy was representing himself as counsel for the president on these issues. He's external counsel, not staff counsel, and was making that representation far and wide that he was actually speaking for his client on many of these things.

You know, just listening to Boris Epshteyn there, he actually said we did everything illegal. I was going to say and when I heard --

ACOSTA: That's what I thought I heard, too.

DEAN: Yes. And so I don't know if he was -- that was a slip of the truth or what he was doing. But it's kind of ironic that he made that statement at least to my ears. And I think that they did do everything pretty much illegal. So it was an accurate portrayal.

ACOSTA: Do you think that constitutes a crime, you think?

DEAN: Well, the states, five of the states -- I read for example the Wisconsin drill. This has been going on, this was uncovered by a Freedom of the Information Act back in March of this year. So this has been going on for a while. It just -- this sort of currently gotten attention. But there is a group, oversight, that has been digging this information out, seeking Freedom of Information Act material from the archives, and getting it flushed up and out.

And it is clearly fraud. I mean, under the state law and under federal law. A couple of the states did caution that these meeting electors were alternatives in the event that the certified electors were somehow found disqualified.

ACOSTA: Right.

DEAN: This was -- they actually stated that in the resolutions they sent forward. The others did not. Now, some of the people involved are saying hey, we didn't know what the heck we were doing, we were just passed documents and signed. So really the organizers of all this are the people who I think have deep trouble.

You may have trouble showing fraudulent intent on a lot of these people who just sat and signed a document not having a clue what they were doing and just having a lot of fun pretending they were electors.

[15:10:05]

But it's a serious activity to fraudulently misrepresent yourself as an elector when indeed you are not. But the organizers of who put this together, where the scheme came from, and it appears to have come right out of the Trump campaign, the lawyers for the Trump campaign, because of the related documents that show they're all aware of these bogus electors. And it was the device they were going to use where Pence could say, hey, there are conflicting electors, we need to send this back to the states to straighten it out.

ACOSTA: Right. DEAN: So it was all part of a master plot.

ACOSTA: All right. It appears to be the case, absolutely. John Dean, all right, thanks as always for those perspectives. We appreciate it. Great to see you, sir.

DEAN: Thanks, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. In the meantime, Republicans in three states are continuing their elusive search for voter fraud by proposing police forces whose sole job would be to hunt down people for election crimes. The most concrete proposal comes from Florida Governor Ron DeSantis who is seeking a 52-member force including 20 sworn police officers in field offices statewide.

Georgia gubernatorial candidate David Perdue has also pledged to create his own election police force and in Arizona, State Senator Wendy Rogers has filed legislation to establish a $5 million bureau of elections in the governor's office with the power to subpoena witnesses and impound election equipment.

Let's bring in our CNN political commentator Paul Begala. Paul is a former Clinton White House adviser.

You know, Paul, the Justice Department is already investigating dozens of threats against election officials. What would these police units, these election police units mean if they go into effect. Doesn't sound like they're going to be investigating that sort of thing. It sounds like it's almost like an intimidation force that is being sent out there or something.

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's what it sounds like. It sounds like it's about election subversion, rather than election integrity. Every state has laws against voter fraud and every state has the ability to investigate them. Georgia, for example, the secretary of State's office where he had investigators, they looked into allegations of fraud, found none. Then the GBI, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, was called in to investigate. They found none.

They found none because there is none or very, very little. There is not enough to flip any election in any state in this last election cycle. So they're -- by the way, I looked in Georgia and probably other states, violent crime is up in those Republican states. Violent crimes. Real crimes. So rather than fight those real crimes what they're doing is trying to fight a fake crime. Why? Because they are panicked about people voting.

I don't think they should be. Candidly, even though I'm a Democrat, we in Virginia where I live now, we had the Democrats pass very expansive laws expanding people's opportunity to vote and guess what, the Republicans won anyway. They won fair and square. I wasn't happy about it, but it was a fair free election.

So I don't even think Republicans should be so afraid of democracy. But this is a very chilling -- you know, I hate to use the word, but it's very authoritarian attempt to have police come and intimidate voters or vote counters? It's really very un-American.

ACOSTA: Yes, and I'll be talking about it later on in the show.

Paul, you know, Arizona Senator Kyrsten Sinema, she's back in the news today. She has been formally censured by the Democratic Party in her state for voting to maintain the Senate's filibuster rules, which we saw earlier this week effectively blocking voting legislation that's a key priority for Biden and party, and the Democratic Party.

She was seen on camera after the vote shaking hands with Republicans. That obviously, you know, irritated a lot of Democrats. What do you think of all of this? Do you think that it's healthy for the Arizona Democratic Party to be censuring Kyrsten Sinema like this? It sounds a little bit like what the Republican Party was doing to Liz Cheney? I know it's two completely different situations but should the Democrats in Arizona be censuring Kyrsten Sinema, do you think?

BEGALA: You know, I want the Democrats to be a very big tent. You know, so I don't -- I don't like these purity tests. The problem I think she has politically is that her state is a swing state. You know, it used to be very, very Republican but then Democrats, Sinema and Mark Kelly, both won, two Democrats won Senate seats there. (INAUDIBLE) have to censure, you have two Democrats in the Senate from Arizona.

So the state is purple, trending a little bit blue. As opposed to Joe Manchin in West Virginia. Manchin is the only Democrat who could possibly win there. So Sinema needs to watch out for a potential Democratic primary when she's up -- she is not up in the current election cycle. But I do think she's in some political peril.

In the main, I think you make a good point. I don't like purity tests. But voting rights is so central to our democracy and frankly the Democratic Party and by the way used to be both parties that I can understand why in Arizona they want to do it. And I think that Senator Sinema is in trouble in her own state in her own party.

[15:15:07]

ACOSTA: Certainly sounds that way, it sounds like they're fed up with her back in Arizona. And Republican North Carolina Congressman Madison Cawthorn, Paul, this was, this was disturbing. He was seen on camera cleaning his gun while the committee that he works on was holding a hearing about toxic exposure and burn pits that are killing U.S. soldiers. Obviously a very important issue. This photo was captured by a man named Lindsay Church who attended the session.

What is your reaction to that? You know, we've seen Madison Cawthorn do a lot of these performative things, you know, designed to get clicks and so on. And you know, that kind of followers, and that sort of thing. I mean, this is just -- this is nutty.

BEGALA: It's unworthy of a congressman. The Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America have estimated that 86 percent of our troops that have been deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan, 86, almost all of them, have been exposed to toxins in these burn pits. The Biden administration -- I give Joe Biden a lot of credit. The V.A. under Denis McDonough, the new Veterans secretary, and President Biden have opened up the process to veterans who believe and I think rightly that they have been damaged by being exposed to all of these toxins.

Right now because of Biden, you get a presumption of exposure, which you should for things like asthma and other upper respiratory. They are looking at rare cancers which a lot of people believe can be caused by these burn pits and in fact as it has been reported our president himself thinks that it may well be his son's rare and fatal cancer, brain cancer, that Beau Biden, who's a major deployed overseas, that he may have been exposed to these burn pits himself.

So this is very, very personal for President Biden and it's personal for thousands and thousands, hundreds of thousands of American families. And for Congressman Cawthorn to be so callous, you know, he never served a day, neither did I. Guys like Cawthorn, guys like me, we owe those veterans our highest duty of respect and help when our country has put them in harm's way and those burn pits are very, very harmful.

So he got to really be ashamed of himself. He needs to look in a mirror and really question who he is serving and why.

ACOSTA: All right. Paul Begala, great to talk to. Thanks as always. Appreciate it.

BEGALA: Thanks, Jim.

ACOSTA: Good to see you.

And make sure to tune in, I'll be hosting "DEMOCRACY IN PERIL" where we will delve into the dangers and threats to our democracy and voting. That's at 9:00 p.m. Eastern all week only on CNN.

Coming up, frightening moments for Arnold Schwarzenegger after a crash that ended with the SUV he was riding in on top of another car and what else that we're learning about this accident. Plus new in the Gabby Petito case, what the FBI is now revealing about that notebook found near Brian Laundrie's remains.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:22:07]

ACOSTA: New York City Mayor Eric Adams is now speaking about the shooting of two NYPD police officers after a suspect in a domestic disturbance opened fire inside a Harlem apartment. One officer was killed while another is in critical condition.

Let's go to Mayor Adams.

MAYOR ERIC ADAMS (D), NEW YORK CITY: Well, you know, just we've been moving throughout the Bronx these last few days from the day of election day on. And just the consistency of these electors that are here. And I just want, my heart goes out to Officer Jason Rivera and Wilbert Mora and their entire family on this horrific, horrific incident.

I was at the hospital last night with the police commission and other electors who came out together to state that no matter what philosophical differences we have, the killers assaulted our officers. And this is a battle between the killers and New Yorkers. And we are not going to lose that battle and we're not going to be divided by their violence. And in fact it's going to unite us like never before to be persistent in fighting this battle that's in front of us.

And Officer Dominick Libretti, Kaseem Pennant, Keith Wagenhauser, also officers who were shot, five officers are shot and the underlying causes are really revealing. The one yesterday was a domestic incident. The one on Staten Island was a domestic incident. It keeps talk about the feeder of violence and what is causing this violence to take place in the city. And these men and women I met with earlier, they are the front line of this crisis.

And we know that this is a painful moment but it is also a purposeful moment. How do we turn our pain into purpose. And when I was at Harlem Hospital this afternoon speaking with the family and just letting them know we're praying for their son to get through this moment. He is fighting. He is fighting hard. He is holding on. And we want to be there for this family during this period of time.

And I just want to tell all those on social media and other forms of communication we should be conscious of prematurely sending out those correspondence. You know, to put out yesterday that both officers died, that was inaccurate information and it traumatized their families even more. So we must be sensitive when it talks about shooters of this magnitude not to send the wrong message out.

[15:25:00]

And I said this last night and I will continue to say. Violence is not going to divide us. No one will. We're going to be united as a city. This is how we are going to get through this. And we've been fighting this fight for a long time. Next week I'm going to continue to roll out some of the initiatives that we've talked about, putting in place to zero in on those small number of people who are creating a large number of shootings.

We need to be clear on that. There is a pocket of people in this city who have made the determination that they are going to be violent in our cities. So we are going to move beyond the debate and the rhetoric and move to a place that we can identify and reconcile what are the feeders of this violence that we're seeing. Because many people often talk about bail reform. But there are other rivers that are feeding the sea of violence.

And if we don't identify them correctly and put in place plans to remove them, we're never going to resolve this issue of violence. And it starts with Washington, D.C. Washington must step up. The congressman talks about it all the time. We have to get the Build Back Better bill passed. We need those resources. There are billions tied up in fighting street-level violence for the crisis management that's tied up in this bill. We know that we're doing the right job on the ground. We're removing

thousands of guns off the street. But there is an endless flow that continues to come through our city borders. And so our officers are doing their job. We can't continue to allow violent shooters to remain on the street and we can't continue to have the over proliferation of guns that are coming in.

And so I am committed and I am encouraged by the president's acknowledgement when I met with him right after the primaries, his acknowledgment that we need to collaborate with city, state and federal entities the way we did during 9/11 to fight terrorism.

We have to fight the crimes on our street. One gun on the street is a gun that is endangering our entire city and we need to move to push through this problem. But I'm saying to New Yorkers, don't give up. Don't surrender to violence. Violence will surrender to us. And we're not going to live in the shadows of killers. We're not going to state that people who are killing innocent people are going to overshadow the good work that we're doing to the city.

We're going to stay united. We're going to stay committed and we're going to move our city to be a safe place to raise healthy children and families.

I'll open to any questions. But I want to first have my colleagues that are here, that are doing things on different level of government, to have a word and then I will open to your questions.

ACOSTA: And that was New York City Mayor Eric Adams speaking on gun violence after two NYPD officers were shot last night, one was killed, the other critically injured.

I want to bring in CNN law enforcement reporter Mark Morales.

What's the condition of the two officers that you can tell us, Mark?

MARK MORALES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Right. Well, one the officers was killed in the gunfire from last night. The other is fighting for his life. He went into surgery last night after the shooting. And as of right now, he is in critical condition, stable at the moment, still very much fighting for his life. And I want to read you a statement just from Eric Adams' press conference that just sort of points to where this is all heading now.

He mentioned a small number of people doing large number of the shootings. And the reason that is relevant is because he is talking about new initiatives, new things that the NYPD and the city of New York wants to spearhead to get ahead of the gun violence because as we saw last night, it was a very violent night that capped off a very violent start to the year. Five NYPD officers that were shot since the start of year. And now we have this one fatal officer shot.

ACOSTA: All right. Mark Morales, thank you very much. We're going to stay on top of it if any new developments come out of that press conference with Mayor Adams. We'll dip back in and bring you the latest on that. Mark, thanks very much.

Coming up, new details in the Gabby Petito case. What the FBI is now revealing about the notebook found near Brian Laundrie's remains.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:33:56]

ACOSTA: The investigation into the tragic death of Gabby Petito is coming to a close after a final critical detail in the case.

The FBI says that Petito's fiance, Brian Laundrie, admitted to killing her in a notebook confession before taking his own life. And that notebook, along with a revolver, was found near his body in a Florida nature preserve back in October.

Petito's remains were found a month earlier in Wyoming. A medical examiner determined she had been strangled.

And joining me now is retired FBI profiler and former prosecutor, Jim Clemente.

Jim, are you surprised that Laundrie left this confession? It's pretty startling details to just come out all of a sudden. How common is that?

JIM CLEMENTE, RETIRED FBI PROFILER: It is not very common. But I think that this is kind of like a dying declaration.

He knew he was planning to take his life and I think that he was trying to clear his conscience, which shows remorse but doesn't make up for the murdering of Gabby.

ACOSTA: Jim, why do you think the FBI took so long to reveal the detail about the notebook. Why didn't find out about this sooner?

[15:35:01]

CLEMENTE: Well, the notebook was soaked in water and they may have had to reconstitute the pages and the writing on them, so it may have taken time in the lab to do that.

But also I think they wanted to have time to speak to the families because this does impact them directly.

And now that they have, and they conclude the investigation, it is clear that they found no credible evidence that anyone other than Brian Laundrie was involved in Gabby Petito's death, and for that matter, the suicide of Brian Laundrie.

ACOSTA: And what questions do you still have? You mentioned the families. There were many questions about Brian Laundrie's parents before and after he disappeared.

But based on your experience, is this sort of case closed and the FBI moves on?

CLEMENTE: Criminally, the FBI has said that they are closing the case.

Civilly, the family can still sue the Laundrie family or any other party that they feel they have a claim against in civil court. And that could be the case.

But apparently, the FBI has concluded that Brian Laundrie's parents were not involved in the crime that he committed or covering it up, at least legally.

ACOSTA: So what do you think? From a civil standpoint, is that something that the Laundrie family needs to worry about, do you think?

CLEMENTE: Certainly, they are at risk of being sued because of what their son did. But it is up to the Petito family and how they feel best.

But we have to learn from this. This is a very disturbing case.

ACOSTA: No question about it. Jim Clemente, thank you so much. We appreciate it. Good talking to you, sir.

And if you or someone you know is in a crisis situation, there's help available. Just text "home" to 741741.

And coming up, the U.S. sends 200,000 pounds of lethal aid to the Ukraine amid fears that Russia could invade. A live report on the crisis next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:41:52]

ACOSTA: Amid fears that Russia could invade Ukraine, sources say the U.S. embassy in Kiev is asking the State Department to authorize departure of nonessential staff and their families.

The U.S. has already shipped 200,000 pounds of new military aid and munitions to Ukraine, just in case.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken met with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov for 90 minutes yesterday, warning afterwards that any Russian invasion would be met with a swift and severe response.

CNN's Nic Robertson is joining me now from Moscow.

Nic, it seems that the U.S. is sending a signal by publicly announcing the shipment and releasing all the video of that shipment. They are trying to warn Putin that this is not going to be taken lightly.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, this is a real sea change. And military support for Ukraine not just in what is actually happening but in the way that it is being publicized.

It is meant as a message to President Putin to have him rethink his calculus on the possibility of invasion.

Particularly this coming week, when he will receive the written response from the United States that his security proposal demands that Russia that put out in the middle of December, they wanted this written response.

But there has been real -- to go with a theme of this time of year, a blizzard of these kinds of announcements of military support coming.

You have Latvia and Lithuania will be sending Stinger surface-to-air missiles, good for attacking helicopters, low-flying fast jets.

Estonia will be sending javelin missile systems, taking on the tanks that Russia has lined up. And the British announced had they were sending similar armaments.

And the Czech government is sending ammunition for artillery. German government not sending military but sending field hospitals to Ukraine.

And so all of this coming at a time when President Putin has to make his mind up. His government says he is not about to invade Ukraine.

His demands, he knows the answer will be no because that has been clearly said. But he is building up his army on the borders of Ukraine, on the east, on the north, very close to the capitol.

And so, yes, these are very visible, very volatile, if you will, signals of the support that is there for Ukrainian government.

President Putin will have to make his decision on whether or not that he will follow the diplomatic path, as Secretary Blinken urged his foreign minister to do just yesterday.

ACOSTA: More for Putin to think about as he formulates his next plans.

All right. Nic Robertson, in Moscow, thank you very much, Nic. We appreciate it.

[15:44:37]

And coming up, another edition of passengers flying off the handle. A plane traveling to London from Miami turns around midflight because one person would not wear a mask.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: The CDC is not going to change the definition of what it means to be fully vaccinated yet, despite new studies on the effectiveness of boosters.

Here is CDC director, Dr. Rochelle Walensky.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: And what we really are working to do is pivot the language to make sure that everybody is as up-to-date with their COVID-19 vaccines as they personally could be, should be, based on when they got their last vaccine.

And so importantly, right now, we're pivoting our language.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: At the same time, the new CDC data show that getting a booster offers the best protection against Omicron. In fact, it showed boosters were 90 percent effective at keeping people out of the hospital.

But that protection dropped to 57 percent in people who did not have the booster and were more than six months removed from their second shot.

[15:50:05]

Let's discuss with Dr. William Schaffner. He's a professor in the Division of Infectious Diseases at Vanderbilt University Medical Center.

Dr. Schaffner, it's great to see you as always.

If the data is so clear at this point, why will the CDC not just change the definition of what it means to be fully vaccinated?

I mean, I would think, if they change that definition, it would get a lot of people out there, you know, lining up for those booster shots.

DR. WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, PROFESSOR, DIVISION OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: Well, Jim, I have to wonder the same thing because I've also changed my mind about that. I've been convinced as I've seen the data.

And certainly, this last series of investigations that have just come out, those that you referenced, are really very compelling, that it's the booster that gives you the most secure protection against hospitalization.

And we ought to think of this now as a three-dose series for those people who got the mRNA vaccines. And, yes, I would call that completely vaccinated now and go ahead with that and push that on all fronts.

ACOSTA: And you know, the White House chief medical adviser, Dr. Anthony Fauci, he's clarifying things just a bit on saying that vaccines for kids under 5 might come within the next month. He now says he really doesn't know. It's not clear yet.

Why do you think it's taking the FDA so long to approve shots for this age group? I know parents of little kids, they are desperate for this to get going.

SCHAFFNER: Well, we're all eager for the data, but the data speak for themselves. The early studies would indicate that actually these youngsters might

need a third dose, and so the trials have been extended in order to confirm that.

We don't apparently have a safety issue. It's a matter of what's the exact amount of vaccine that should be in those injections, and how much doses are necessary for those youngsters?

When we make the recommendations, when we do, we want to be absolutely clear and secure when we tell the parents what's good for their children.

Give us a little more time to get it right.

ACOSTA: Especially when we're talking about very little kids.

And you know, the battles over masks, you know, they're continuing.

As you know, an American Airlines flight from Miami to London had to turn around midflight this past week because a passenger would not wear her mask. Now, some people might think that that sounds extreme.

But just to remind our viewers how infectious Omicron is, why it's so crucial people wear a mask not just on a plane but in a large public setting.

I would think if you're on a flight for several hours not wearing a mask, you are putting other people at risk, unless you know absolutely for sure that you're not infected in some way.

SCHAFFNER: Sure, Jim, you've got it exactly right. You're in a confined space with an awful lot of people.

And no matter how good the air handling and filtration is on those planes, there's been circumstances where diseases, such as tuberculosis, much less contagious than Omicron, has been transmitted during long flights.

So we need everyone to collaborate and to participate in wearing the mask.

Now, this was also a person who likely not wearing the mask on the plane was not very careful in their day-to-day life in the weeks preceding the flight.

So this turns out to be actually a kind of high-risk person. I'm certainly glad they turned around and asked that person to leave the plane for the safety of everyone else on the plane.

ACOSTA: Yes, and I can tell you from flying a lot, you know, a lot of these flight crews, they've just had it with people not cooperating with this.

When the airlines tell you in advance, this is what you got to do if you want to get on the plane and fly with us, you have to comply with these regulations. And, Dr. Schaffner, there's a new study published that shows there's

no correlation between getting a COVID vaccine and fertility.

However, listen to what Florida Governor Ron DeSantis said earlier this week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): Think about how ridiculous it is what they're doing, by trying to force the nurses with these vaccines. A lot of these nurses have had COVID. A lot of them are younger.

Some of them are -- they're trying to have families. There's a whole bunch of things they have going on. So they don't want to be forced to do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: What are your thoughts on that, Dr. Schaffner?

SCHAFFNER: In my medical center, not only do you have to have the two doses, we have to be boosted also. That's not only for our benefit. It's for the benefit of the safety of our patients.

There's no reproductive hazard to receiving this vaccine if you're trying to become pregnant, if you are pregnant, or if you're nursing.

[15:55:00]

And there's no hazard on the gentleman's side of the equation either. You could put that aside. There's no reproductive hazard.

Get the vaccine. It's really in your and your newborn's best interests.

ACOSTA: All right, Dr. William Schaffner, plain spoken as always. We appreciate it. Always helpful. Thank you, sir.

SCHAFFNER: My pleasure.

ACOSTA: All right.

And it's the face you know, the story you don't. Be sure to tune in for a brand-new episode of the CNN original series, "REFRAMED: MARILYN MONROE." Airing tomorrow night at 9:00 right here on CNN.

We'll be right back.

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