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Anti-Vax Mandates, Anti-Abortion Fuel Weekend Of Rallies; Anti- Abortion Hopes High On 49th Anniversary Of Roe V. Wade; U.K.: Putin Planning To Install Puppet Government In Ukraine; Florida Governor Wants Election Police Force; Biden, National Security Team Meet To Discuss Russian Aggression; Major Airlines Say 5G Doomsday Scenarios Are Over; Huge, Rare Coral Reef Found Deep In Ocean's "Twilight Zone." Aired 8-9p ET

Aired January 22, 2022 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[20:00:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: These heartbreaking pictures show Tonga before the catastrophe, and then the destruction that came after. Look at this. The eruption sent a massive tsunami crashing into the island.

And now, countries are racing to get aid there, as the government warns of a looming food and water crisis. One official said the eruption and tsunami ruined agriculture.

A U.S. Navy destroyer arrived Wednesday to help with rescue and recovery.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): Breaking tonight, Putin's plan to install a puppet government in Ukraine.

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: If any Russian military forces move across Ukraine's border, it will be met with swift, severe, and a united response.

BROWN: Meantime, two New York police officers ambushed during a domestic disturbance call inside a Harlem apartment. One is dead, one in critical condition.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am struggling to find the words to express the tragedy we are enduring. We're mourning and we're angry.

ERIC ADAMS, COMMISSIONER, NEW YORK POLICE DEPARTMENT: This was just not an attack on three brave officers. This was an attack on the city of New York.

BROWN: After the Omicron wave, what experts say could come next this year.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you're vaccinated, COVID does not have to dominate your life.

BROWN: Also tonight, a Virginia mom charged after threatening a school board with violence if her children were forced to wear masks.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I will bring every single gun loaded and ready.

BROWN: And finally, what we know about Arnold Schwarzenegger's multi- vehicle crash Friday in Los Angeles.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM with us on this Saturday evening.

Right here, in Washington, D.C., this weekend, intensely fired-up gatherings on similar themes, your government, your rights, your body.

Today marks the 49th anniversary of the landmark Roe v. Wade decision, which made abortions legal in the United States.

Well, this year, a different mood has fueled the annual gathering of anti-abortion activists in Washington. Optimism, if not celebration.

Many of them believe this will be the last year that American women have the constitutional right to choose whether they can get an abortion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We may well be on the verge of an era when the Supreme Court sends Roe v. Wade to the ash heap of history.

(CHEERING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the day will come when the right to life is the law of the land in every state in these United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Also here in the nation's capital, a different issue with the contrasting argument, that government should not have the power to make personal medical decisions for you.

The city of Washington is bracing for tomorrow's rally against vaccine mandates. It's an issue that's equally impassioned and politically charged in a divided America.

CNN's Suzanne Malveaux is here in D.C.

Suzanne, this protest against vaccine mandates comes just as the city implements new rules about proving you've been vaccinated to get into a lot of businesses like restaurants and gyms.

Are city officials prepared as people push back on that?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pam, they are certainly trying to be.

There's a great deal of anticipation and some concern over the potential for violence this weekend, as all eyes turn to tomorrow's fight over vaccine mandates that's going to play out here in Washington.

So, the National Park Service says various groups opposing vaccine mandates, vaccines, and masks could draw up to 20,000 people at and around this event.

So, you have the FBI, Department of Homeland Security, Metropolitan and U.S. Park Police, and others who are helping local businesses prepare for these crowds.

And possibly confront protesters who might refuse to wear masks indoors or provide vaccination cards or comply with the D.C. rules.

Now, the protests coincide with this new proof of vaccine requirements for restaurants, bars, gyms, other private businesses here in D.C.

U.S. Capitol Police and Montgomery County, Maryland's, Police Department are staffing up to arrest those who are non-compliment or who harass employees or -- they've actually held a conference call already with business leaders to prepare for those type of scenarios.

Now, the U.S. Capitol Police chief says, in a statement, I'm confident in our preparation for this weekend. Law enforcement officials say they're also concerned that these protests could attract violent extremist groups."

Just, for example, they say that, Friday, close to 30 men who appeared to be tied to Patriot Front, an American nationalist, white supremacist group, showed up outside the national archives. They were surrounded by D.C. police to ensure that there were no confrontations.

[20:04:59]

Now, the organizers of tomorrow's protest called the Defeat the Mandates, they say they have hired increased private security to work with government law enforcement officials.

And they put out a statement, as well, saying, "We do not welcome extremist groups on any side that condone racism or bring violence of any kind to the thousands of Americans that will be marching peacefully."

So, Pam, we'll take a look and see what happens tomorrow.

BROWN: We hope that everything stays peaceful. That's for sure.

Suzanne Malveaux, thank you so much.

Now let's turn to the shifting landscape on abortion. Dr. Bhavik Kumar is a provider of abortion services in Texas, a state that passed a law essentially banning abortions after six weeks of pregnancy.

Doctor, thank you for coming on.

How concerned are you that the Supreme Court will strike down Roe v. Wade?

DR. BHAVIK KUMAR, TEXAS ABORTION PROVIDER: Yes, I'm definitely concerned. Roe v. Wade has been law of the land for the past 49 years.

But after hearing the Supreme Court hearings with the Mississippi case a few weeks ago, and hearing some of the questioning that the judges asked, it really seems like the court is poised to potentially gut Roe.

And we also know that there are 26 states throughout the country that have trigger bans, which, if Roe is touched, could automatically go into effect, really, meaning that 26 states throughout the country could ban abortion automatically with a decision from the Supreme Court.

BROWN: So, with the conservative super majority on the Supreme Court, then, do you think access to apportion will become much more limited? And, if so, what do you think that would mean?

KUMAR: Yes, you know, as a provider of abortion care in Texas for the past seven years, we know that Roe was the floor.

Meaning that it's been decades passing restriction after restriction in states in the south and the Midwest, where abortion has essentially become meaningless -- abortion access has become meaningless for so many people and out of reach.

And so while Roe offers many protections, we know there's still so much more left to do.

But this is a time for us to really talk about what abortion access actually means and what not having access will mean for people.

And so, I'm really concerned about what the Supreme Court might do and what that's going to mean for my patients.

But I'm also hopeful that we'll begin to have more meaningful conversations and turn the tide.

I think when people really understand what accessing abortion means for people, what not having access to abortion actually means, they really begin to understand how meaningful it is and how important it is in people's lives.

BROWN: So, what does it mean?

KUMAR: Well, when somebody is pregnant and they decide that they can't be pregnant, these decisions are thought about.

They know what's best for them. They know what's best for their futures. They know what's best for their families. Oftentimes, the children they already have at home.

Having these conversations one-on-one with people every single day who decide that they know that they cannot be pregnant, they know these things based on their own lives, which nobody else knows better than themselves.

And they're making smart choices, smart choices about if they can and want to parent, if they have the ability to, if they have the financial resources, and oftentimes, they recognize that they don't.

Oftentimes, actually 60 percent of people who have an abortion already have children at home.

Meaning they know what it's like to be pregnant, they know what it takes to parent a child and making informed decisions that they know are best for them.

And that's what's most important, is holding what a person wants for their body, for their life, for their future, at the center of how I provide care for them.

BROWN: Are you finding fewer people in Texas are coming to you to get abortions because of the restrictive state law?

KUMAR: Certainly. We're seeing fewer people than we used to see. And a lot of the work that we do now is helping people get out of state.

And so, we have navigators and care coordinators that are helping people connect with a clinic in a different state, helping them with logistics, with financial resources.

One of the main reasons people choose to have an abortion is financial reasons. And one of the biggest problems is financial.

And of course, as you mentioned before, this is only Texas right now.

But if the Supreme Court were to gut Roe and we have 26 states that ban abortion, this would be half of the country, more than half of the country, that would need to scramble and help people get to these abortion haven states.

BROWN: I want to show you the CNN poll conducted a few days ago. It shows only 30 percent of Americans support the Supreme Court overturning Roe v. Wade.

What do you think happens if the court does, indeed, do that? Or do you have any other concerns that you haven't expressed thus far?

KUMAR: Yes, you're absolutely right. The vast majority of Americans support access to abortions.

There's a Gallup poll that shows 80 percent of Americans is unsupportive that anyone that tries to take away that access is not in line with what people want.

And as a physician, it's about what my patients need, what is safest for them, and what is best for them.

[20:10:01]

I'm gravely concerned about what's going to happen to people when they're not able to access abortion on a larger scale. I'm concerned about maternal morbidity, maternal mortality.

We've already been here before Roe. We know what happens when people don't have access to abortion. People are hurt, they suffer, and people could potentially die. Pregnancy is not a benign state.

So, I'm very concerned that nonmedical professionals, judges, politicians, are making these decisions that are not what people want, not what Americans stand for, and are not part of American values.

It's not a part of freedom, right? You're taking freedom away from people. You're taking bodily autonomy away from people.

And I'm very concerned that this is what our future holds.

BROWN: Dr. Kumar, thank you so much for your opinion and perspective on this important issue on the 49th anniversary of Roe v. Wade. Thank you.

KUMAR: Thanks.

BROWN: Breaking tonight, the U.K. government revealing Putin's plot to install a puppet government in Ukraine. Our international diplomatic editor, Nic Robertson, is in Moscow with the latest.

And then, calling out Florida Governor Ron DeSantis' latest solution in search of a problem. This time, election police.

Also ahead, CNN aviation analyst, Miles O'Brien, helping us navigate the whiplash from that 5-G versus the airlines debacle. If you are confused by it all, don't worry, we're going to help you better understand it.

And finally, monkeys on the run after escaping a wrecked truck.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:15:39]

BROWN: A new major development tonight in the tense situation between Russia and Ukraine. It could signal an escalation.

An explosive new finding by British officials that President Vladimir Putin has a plan in place to install a pro-Russian government in Ukraine, as he considers whether to invade and possibly occupy that country.

CNN international diplomatic editor, Nic Robertson, is in Moscow.

So, Nic, what's the reaction from there tonight?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, the reaction from the Kremlin is, they're saying that this is -- that the British are making this up, and that they should stop doing this. They should go back to studying their history books. What the British are saying is that the Kremlin, in its consideration whether or not to invade Ukraine, which the Kremlin says it isn't.

But the British government's assessment is that the Kremlin is considering invading Ukraine and possibly occupying it. And if they do that, then they would install a pro-Russian government.

Yevgeny Murrayev is the former Ukrainian M.P., pro-Russian former M.P., who the British government is the person they've picked.

CNN has contacted him and he said there's no need to comment because he says he's under Russian sanctions.

His implication is that, if he's under Russian sanctions, why would Russia be picking him to lead the government?

But what the British government is saying is that there are other people, as well, as part of the Kremlin's plan.

They say there are four other former members of the Ukrainian government, one of them, a former prime minister, two of them former deputy prime ministers, one of them, a former national security official.

And what the British Foreign Office is saying that these four individuals have been in contact with Russian intelligence operatives, the same operatives who are currently planning the invasion of Ukraine.

And the British foreign secretary has said that this -- and she said this in a statement this evening.

She said, "The information shines a light on the extent of Russian activity designed to subvert Ukraine. And it's an insight into Kremlin thinking. Russia must de-escalate and end the campaign of misinformation and pursue a path of diplomacy."

She goes on to says, "As the U.K. and our partners said repeatedly, any Russian military incursion into Ukraine would be a massive strategic mistake with severe costs."

So, this is a very strong statement from the British foreign secretary, and a very precise and strong piece of information from the Foreign Office.

It's not often that the British government releases information like this. Tonight, they have.

BROWN: Right. I mean, that's what is so stunning about this one British security source I spoke with that said, this was strategic to release this information, to put Russia on notice, let them know, we know what you're up to, trying to stay one foot ahead, as this source said.

And you have these developments, Nic, Russia having about 100,000 troops deployed near the Ukraine border, now this report about Moscow putting together what would essentially be a puppet government for Ukraine.

What do these huge developments mean together? Does it tell you that something could be imminent?

ROBERTSON: Well, certainly, what the British and American assessment at the moment is, is that what is imminent for President Putin is a decision, is a decision on how to move forward.

If he's going to continue on a path of diplomacy or is going to move to other tactics.

The Russian government says they're not going to invade Ukraine. There's belief that he could use paramilitary tactics, you know, from pro-Russian supporters in the eastern side of Ukraine. He could use cyberattacks on Ukraine. But these are all different options.

And as he's considering these, British government, U.S. government, and other NATO allies, are trying to essentially put -- put President Putin on notice that the cost of any incursion is high, that they know what he's doing, or they have an assessment of what he's doing.

And they are trying to get that information in the public domain in Russia, so the Russian people know what the Kremlin is doing at the moment.

[20:20:06]

So, it's all designed to interrupt President Putin's thinking and try to get a course correction, a de-escalation from the Russian government.

BROWN: The United States and other NATO allies have begun sending what's called lethal aid to Ukraine, including ammunition and anti- tank weapons.

What has the response to this from Moscow? Could this end up provoking Moscow and escalating the crisis even more potentially?

ROBERTSON: You know, it's certainly going to sharpen the thinking.

As military aid goes into the Ukrainian military -- and we know that stinger missiles have been sent by Lithuania, Estonia sending javelin mistles.

The Czech government is sending ammunition for artillery, the German military sending military field hospitals.

As all of this equipment begins to arrive in Ukraine, it ups the stakes, should Russia choose to invade Ukraine. It ups the stakes and makes a potential conflict more harder and politically costly for President Putin.

So, you know, this could bring a move from the Russian government forward and it could make them take a course correction.

That's the intent, to have a de-escalation overall and a course correction.

BROWN: All right, Nic Robertson in Moscow. Thank you for bringing us the latest. And 4:21 a.m. there in Moscow. Thank you, Nic.

Florida's governor wants the state to create an election police force. Some say it's a political ploy that could be used to suppress votes. Author and Vanderbilt Professor Michael Eric Dyson joins me up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:26:20]

BROWN: Well, this week, Governor Ron DeSantis effectively asked the state legislature for his very own election police force. It's called the Office of Election Crime and Security.

It would, quote, "investigate, detect, apprehend and arrest anyone for an alleged violation of election laws." Acting on tips from government officials or any other person.

The 52-member police squad would cost taxpayers almost $6 million.

The real problem with the proposal is there's no evidence of widespread voter fraud anywhere in Florida. And even less evidence the problem warrants a special police force.

For the record, of the more than 18 million votes cast in Florida throughout 2020, Florida officials referred just 75 complaints to local law enforcement. At that rate, it is essentially a nonissue.

Don't believe me? Well, you can just ask DeSantis himself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): The way Florida did it, I think, inspires confidence. I think that's how elections should be run.

We're now being looked at as the state that did it right and the state that these other states should emulate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: That was November 2020.

Does that sound like a governor so concerned about election integrity that he need ss a new office to combat the problem?

Opponents say it's about much more than that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STATE REP. FENTRICE DRISKELL (D-FL): For the governor to double down on these efforts now, when there was no evidence of voter fraud or election fraud during the 2020 election, suggests to me that this also is politically motivated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Politically motivated.

It is no secret DeSantis is weighing a 2024 presidential run. But this brings political pandering to a whole new level.

And in Georgia, former GOP Senator-turned-candidate for governor, David Perdue, is following suit. Promising to make his own election police force if he wins.

It's only a matter of time before other Republican-led states join in, too.

But let's be clear, Purdue and DeSantis claim this is about protecting election integrity. But what it would really do is erode what little trust there's left in our democracy.

And joining me now to discuss is professor of African-American studies at Vanderbilt University, Michael Eric Dyson. His new book is called "Entertaining Race, Performing Blackness in America."

You've studied voter suppression for years. Give us your reaction to this Republican push for election police forces.

MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, PROFESSOR OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN STUDIES, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY & AUTHOR: As you stated it, Ms. Brown, this would discourage legitimate voters from coming to the polls.

Black voters, poor voters, poor white voters, elderly voters, are already subject to arbitrary forms of, you know, kind of lockdown, when it comes to voting. Being misled by robo-calls.

Having I.D. laws stringently applied. You can have an I.D. for a gun and you can register, or it be accepted to vote, but not if you have one for SNAP or one for a student I.D.

So, we know that the targeting of communities of color, of poor communities, of younger populations, is what the ultimate goal here is.

[20:29:49]

And if the governor said that Florida was the exemplary state, paradigm of reasonable voting and legitimate voting, why now, all of a sudden, without an outbreak of voter fraud here?

As you've said, 75 cases referred to the police out of 18 million votes. That's an extraordinary record, and one to be commended. And so what we know here is that voter suppression is afoot that the Republicans have introduced laws and 48 state legislatures and some 400 bills to -- in one way or another, suppress the vote of people of color of poor people, of elderly people.

And it reeks of fascist retaliation against the fact that these people have turned out in record numbers to vote. Why don't the Republicans want more votes, not less? More people involved in the process of democracy, not less. If you're invested in making America the best that it can be, then we want every vote to count.

BROWN: Do you see similarities between this and some of the suppression tactics used against African-Americans during Jim Crow?

DYSON: There is no doubt about it. Think about policemen on horses riding roughshod over vulnerable populations. Think about the bicuspids and incisors of police dogs ripping out the flesh of black people. Think about Jelly Bean tests, think about pole tests, think about literacy tests.

All of these shenanigans and stratagems were deployed to try to prevent black people from exercising their vote and leverage at the polls. And so, I -- there's a striking similarity and a dangerous run one between what went on in the '50s and '60s in this country. And what's going on today in the name of expanded democracy and attacks against voter fraud.

BROWN: It is true, though, that there is a problem with trust in the system among Republicans, just 13 percent say they are very confident in our election system. And the majority say they believe Trump won the election. DeSantis says, this is about increasing their confidence in the system. What do you say to that argument?

DYSON: Yes, that's not true. First of all, it is a shame and atrocious that 13 percent of Republicans believe that the election was stolen. This is the trumpeting of a Trump who refuses to accept the fact that he lost fair and square. And so the big lie has been amplified in states even that Mr. Trump went after, when you think about Arizona or Georgia, or even in Pennsylvania.

These Republican strongholds, at least in terms of the officials there said, no, we are not the ones who engaged in stratagems of suppression, and that the vote couldn't be trusted. But here we find out, as soon as the votes have been certified, and democracy took place in a reasonable fashion, they turn around to introduce laws that will -- that will powerfully suppress the vote of African-American people.

And we know for instance, among many Republicans, they have the same outlook that Mitch McConnell does. He said that African-Americans vote in the same numbers that Americans do. Wait a minute, when were we part of a different nation?

When were black people part of another congregation of voices who were outside of the precincts and providence of American democracy? We know that there is a sense of black people as the other and these stratagems, you know, deployed by Republicans reveal their beliefs, essentially, about black citizenship not being legitimate.

BROWN: And Mitch McConnell made that comment Wednesday, he came out Friday, two days later to directly address the mistakes and it was inadvertent.

But nonetheless, Michael Eric Dyson, thank you for coming on and sharing your really important perspective on this topic.

DYSON: Thank you so, Pam.

BROWN: And be sure to join Jim Acosta all next week as he host "Democracy in Peril" Monday through Friday night at 9:00 a.m. Eastern only on CNN.

Breaking news just in to the CNN NEWSROOM. President Biden meeting with his national security team as we learn more about Russia's aggressive actions towards Ukraine.

CNN's Arlette Saenz is at the White House. What are you hearing, Arlette?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela, President Biden convened a meeting with his national security team at Camp David today to discuss Russia's aggressive actions towards Ukraine.

Joining him in person for this meeting was the national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, and also his counselor, Steve Ricchetti. Other members of the national security team also joined virtually.

Now, the White House released a readout of this meeting, saying that the President was briefed on Russia's military actions, as well as those diplomatic efforts to encourage Russia to de-escalate the situation regarding Ukraine.

Additionally, that White House readout says that there was discussion of the deterrence measures that both the U.S. and our allies are putting into place at this moment. And that includes ongoing deliveries of security assistance.

Now, an important line at the very end of it was President Biden also making clear and they said again affirmed that should Russia for invade Ukraine, the United States will impose swift and severe consequences on Russia with our allies and partners.

[20:35:07]

Of course, right now, the U.S. is trying to pursue that diplomatic path to try to de-escalate this situation. But they are also putting those contingency measures in place. You saw the first shipments of recently approved security assistance delivered to Ukraine in the past 24 hours.

The White House and top officials are also drafting these options of what the U.S. would do if Russia actually follows through with an invasion. That includes those severe economic sanctions, as well as the Pentagon drafting up options or for what military steps the U.S. could take in Eastern European NATO countries.

But right now, the White House is trying to show that they are keeping this a top priority as the President is trying to navigate this very tricky and tense situation when it comes to Russia and Ukraine.

BROWN: Arlette Saenz, thank you so much.

Well, some are calling it a doomsday scenario. A high-tech warning that a new 5G wireless network could interfere with equipment that helps airplanes land. The airline say the threat is over. But cell phone companies are not so sure.

CNN aviation analyst, Miles O'Brien, joins me next. We're going to look at all sides.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:40:57]

BROWN: Well, days after several global airlines warn of cancelled, delayed, or diverted U.S. flights due to the rollout of new cellphone technology, top airline executives now believe the 5G doomsday scenario is over.

5G or Fifth Generation wireless signals give cell phones and other devices faster speeds with less congestion. But airlines worry parts of the new technology will interfere with altimeters, which planes used to tell how high they are off the ground. They are critical when visibility is poor.

This week, both Verizon and AT&T, the owner of CNN's parent company, Warner Media, said they would delay certain 5G deployments around some airports, while the government and telecoms figure out how to fix this potential problem.

CNN's aviation analyst Miles O'Brien joins me now. Good to see you, Miles, I have to admit. I have found just all the back and forth, like, really confusing. So, I'm glad you're on the show to help us understand what this is all about, what the latest is. But first, I'm going to listen to the president of Emirates Airlines about the chaos of this past week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM CLARK, PRESIDENT, EMIRATES AIRLINES: This is one of the most delinquent utterly irresponsible issue subjects, call it what do you like, I've seen in my aviation career. Somebody should have told them a long time ago that it would compromise safety of operation of aircraft in metropolitan areas with catastrophic consequences if this was allowed to continue. I think that message got through at a very, very late stage and that is why you see the suspension.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And I want to just note I mispronounced, its altimeters. All right.

So, 5G has been rolled out at other European airports safely. So, why are airlines so worried about 5G here in the U.S.? Help us better understand this.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, Pamela, the problem is the 5G frequency band, the C band which these 5G transmitters will operate in, it's right next door to that frequency band where the radar altimeter operates. Now, the radar altimeter is an extremely important device, it is used by pilots to get precise data on the relative height of the aircraft to the ground as it gets closer to the ground, particularly crucial in the midst of a low visibility or zero visibility landing scenario.

So, if the radar altimeter is not operating well, you have a problem. Now, the C band 5G is supposed to be next door with a buffer zone from this band of frequency, but frequencies have a way of getting out of their lane. And so it's very important that you have specific filters on the devices, the altimeters to block out any stray frequencies.

And the problem is the altimeters that are in the fleet, not all of them have been checked out. And the cellular industry was discounting the concerns that the aviation industry was bringing forth and decided to charge forward with their attempt to build these towers right near airports. And so you have really kind of this slow motion, plane wreck, if you will, which fortunately was averted.

BROWN: So, tell us about the smaller regional air carriers and why they were particularly worried about this.

O'BRIEN: Well, their radar altimeters aren't passing the grade as much. It's, you know, it's a complicated device. And the more sophisticated, bigger newer aircraft have more filters and more capability for making sure they have laser beam focused on the bandwidth they're interested in and not what's next store.

Some of the older radar altimeters which were built at a time when there was no contemplation of 5G and the C band frequencies don't have quite the filtering systems. And so the concern is that they may not be able to separate the important signal from the stray signal and that's why they haven't been clear for flight now.

[20:45:01]

BROWN: So, the rollout of 5G by phone companies, it has not been a secret, it was delayed twice in the past few months just to help the FAA get ready. In your view who deserves the blame for this mess this week? Is it cell phone companies, airlines government all of the above? What's your view?

O'BRIEN: Well, you know, I'm going to have to point the finger at an abject lack of leadership on the part of the federal government. You have two agencies that represent various industries, the, you know, cellular radio communication industry and the airline industry.

You know, they're kind of equal players in their own realms. And when there is a conflict between the two, this is supposed to be sorted out at the executive level, but that didn't happen. And for whatever reason, this got kicked down -- the can got kicked down the corridor. A game of chicken was played, the -- they say that companies didn't want to pay for modifying their transmitters or aiming their antennas differently or turning off some of them.

And the airline industry was concerned about the cost of upgrading their fleet, these radar altimeters to make them safe, and so neither did anything. And it came down to this absolute disaster, fortunately averted by a compromise, but it certainly could have been avoided with a scant amount of leadership.

BROWN: A scant. Wow. Miles O'Brien, thank you. Good to see you.

O'BRIEN: You're welcome, Pamela.

BROWN: Scientists have made an amazing discovery in what's called the ocean's Twilight Zone, a pristine coral reef seemingly unaffected by climate change, what it could mean for the future of our planet, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:50:10]

BROWN: We have an update on those roaming monkeys that fled into the woods after their transport vehicle crashed. Just moments ago, Pennsylvania State Police announced that all monkeys are now accounted for. The last first fury -- furry rather, fugitive among the several that had initially fled the crash has apparently been located.

Well, as some billionaires look up to the heavens to chart their next travel adventures. Here is proof that it's still important to look down deep into our own planet. A huge coral reef that no one knew about before was recently discovered in the depths of Tahiti. It's about two miles long and believed to be in pristine condition.

CNN's Rene Marsh shows us why scientists think it's just another example of why more must be done to explore the world's oceans.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RENE MARSH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Here, off the coast of Tahiti, a stunning discovery. Resting up to 230 feet below the surface was this, a huge untouched rose shaped coral reef nearly two miles long. Researchers on a United Nations-led scientific mission discovered it diving near the depths of the ocean known as The Twilight Zone, 100 to more than 200 feet below the surface where there's just enough light to sustain life.

That's where they found one of the world's largest coral reefs, appearing unaffected by climate change. Stunning since warming waters have wiped out nearly half of the Earth's known reefs. And over the next couple of decades, there will be a 90 percent decline according to the latest projections.

EVERT FLIER, NORWEGIAN MAPPING AUTHORITY: It shows us still how little we know about our own planet, and how important it is to gain more knowledge to better understand the processes of those oceans that will again influence life on our planet.

MARSH: Norwegian oceanographer, Evert Flier, is helping to lead an international network of governments, ocean scientists, industry and volunteers in a mission to map the world seabed by 2030.

FLIER: And the shape of the seabed and how deep it is and the ocean currents, it all influences to a great extent, how climate will develop and how climate will change. And therefore, if we lack parts of the knowledge on what -- on which these climate models are based, our climate models are not as good as they could be.

MARSH: It also depends where the currents are.

The topography of the ocean floor dictates how currents move warm and cold water throughout the planet and that impacts climate. Ocean seafloor mapping is critical for precisely predicting and preparing for the climate crisis, melting glaciers and storm surge.

JAMIE MCMICHAEL-PHILLIPS, PROJECT DIRECTOR, SEABED 2030: That will allow lots of clever people to use that information to conduct all sorts of science all sorts of modeling.

MARSH: This mission is underway in various parts of the world. But so far, just 20 percent of the world's ocean floor has been mapped. That's the equivalent of the continent of Asia and Africa. But what still needs to be mapped is almost double the landmass of all of the Earth's continent. It's estimated it will cost three to $5 billion to complete the mission.

The technology exists, but the financial appetite to do it is not robust. Countries, militaries and private entities like oil and gas companies map areas central to their work at sea, but are not always willing to share the data. The leaders of the Seabed 2030 mission are now calling on everyday citizens.

MCMICHAEL-PHILLIPS: Whether you're a master of a bulk carrier, whether you're a yacht skipper, whether you're a ferry boat captain, then you're in a position to gather data to help us chart the seabed.

MARSH: Well, the United Nations has endorsed this mission to map the world's ocean floor and anyone with a boat can get involved by visiting the Seabed 2030 website.

[20:55:06]

Now, as for those beautiful coral reefs, researchers hope to learn how and why it's been able to thrive despite the climate crisis, and what they learned may enable them to save the rest of the world's reefs, which protect coastlines from storms and erosion.

Rene Marsh, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Thanks to Rene.

Well, this weekend marks the first anniversary of CNN NEWSROOM for me. Thank you so much for joining me the past 52 weekends, for watching this show. I hope that you will be with me for many more. It has been such an honor spending weekend evenings with you.

I'm Pamela Brown, I'll see you again tomorrow night starting at 6:00 Eastern.

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