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Second U.S. Shipment Of Military Aid Delivered To Ukraine; Thousands Join The "Defeat The Mandates" Rally In D.C.; U.S. To Reduce Non-Essential Personnel From Embassy In Ukraine; Former Trump Aide Says Trump's Big Lie Will Begin To Unfold. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired January 23, 2022 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:31]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, Secretary of State Antony Blinken doubling down on America's warning to Vladimir Putin.

ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: If a single additional Russian force goes into Ukraine in an aggressive way, as I said, that would trigger a swift, a severe and a united response.

BROWN: January 6th investigators reveal they're talking with Trump's former AG, Bill Barr.

REP. BENNIE THOMPSON (D-MS): We've had conversations with the former attorney general.

REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): We're proceeding methodically and working our way up.

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: I think you'll see the anatomy of the big lie begin to unfold.

BROWN: January 6th Committee member Elaine Luria joins us live tonight.

Also tonight, anti-vaccine mandate protesters rally in D.C.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have the freedom to determine what happens to your body.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We live in a free country, why can't we be free?

BROWN: Meantime, a beloved Houston-area deputy killed during a traffic stop.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are not assaults. These are not attacks. These are brutal, brutal murders.

BROWN: Finally, the cryptocurrency craze, critics say don't listen to celebrity endorsements as Bitcoin tumbles 50 percent from its November high. MATT DAMON, ACTOR: Fortune favors the brave.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM on this Sunday.

And new tonight as tensions between Russia and Ukraine escalate, America's top diplomat sending a blunt warning to Russia coming close to a red line that Moscow must not cross.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLINKEN: If a single additional Russian force goes into Ukraine in an aggressive way, as I said, that would trigger a swift, a severe and a united response from us and from Europe. And, again, there are other things that Russia could do that falls short of actually sending additional forces into Ukraine and, again, across the board we're prepared with Europe for a swift and calibrated and great united response. We're looking at every single scenario preparing for every single one.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Blinken's warning comes as Russia has amassed some 100,000 troops near the Ukraine border. Despite repeated warnings from President Biden and other Western leaders of serious consequences if President Putin moves ahead with an invasion, Blinken would not comment on the specific intelligence we told you about last night that Moscow reportedly is plotting to install a puppet government in Ukraine, but he did say the information from the British government is the kind of Russian tactic the U.S. has been warning about for weeks.

And not long after Blinken issued his warning to Moscow a second U.S. shipment of military aid touched down in Ukraine.

CNN's Arlette Saenz is at the White House.

Arlette, this delivery comes just two days after the first plane of security assistance arrived on Friday. Can we expect to see more of this?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela, the U.S. is evaluating what other types of assistance they can offer Ukraine as they are hoping to ensure the country has the defense needed in order to defend themselves against a possible invasion from Russia. Now Ukraine's Defense minister tweeted a short while ago that a second shipment has landed in Ukraine. He said that there's about 80 tons of weapons from, quote, "our friends in the USA," and, importantly, he adds, "and this is not the end."

Now we know that earlier in the week the U.S. approved the transfer of American-made weapons systems from Baltic states to Ukraine. This includes things like antiaircraft systems and other measures. The U.S. is hoping that the shipments, these types of military assistance, will not only act as a defense for Ukraine but also a deterrence for Russia.

Now President Biden convened a meeting of his National Security team from Camp David on Saturday. He was joined in person by his National Security adviser and other top National Security advisers including Secretary of State Antony Blinken joined via secure video call.

The president was updated on those diplomatic efforts as the U.S. is hoping that the diplomatic route will help encourage Russia to de- escalate the situation. They also talked about those deterrence measures that they are trying to put in place along with allies including this shipment of military assistance.

[08:05:06]

We also know that the U.S. has been prepping and building what they bill as severe economic sanctions against Russia should they invade. So far the White House has really been defending their decision not to impose these sanctions before an invasion as some Republican lawmakers have been calling for. But right now the White House is still hoping that that diplomatic route will eventually lead to this de-escalation. The secretary of State and other officials are stressing that they are preparing for all scenarios.

BROWN: All right, Arlette Saenz, thank you so much.

And I want to bring in CNN global affairs analyst Susan Glasser and former CIA chief of Russia Operations and CNN national security analyst Steve Hall.

Thank you both for joining us tonight. A lot of developments. Look, the Ukrainian government now says that Russia has more than 127,000 troops gathered near the border including air and sea forces, and a host of tactical missiles. And this comes after three rounds of diplomatic talks between Russia in the West aimed at de-escalating the crisis.

Steve, you heard the warning from Secretary of State Blinken. Do you think the threat will stop Putin from invading Ukraine? And if not, is there a danger in going so close to drawing a red line for Russia when we saw with Syria how badly things can go if you're not prepared to make good on that threat?

STEVE HALL, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I think one thing is clear. If there is no pushback from the United States and from the West against Putin, there's going to be trouble. I mean, what has Putin learned from recent history. 2008, invades Georgia. What does he get? Basically a stern wag of the finger from the West. Invades Ukraine and annexes Crimea. What does he get? Some sanctions and another wag of the finger.

So, you know, if not now, when? And if not where -- if not in Ukraine, where are we going to stop? Do we have to wait until he invades Finland or Sweden or something like that? So I can understand that there's got to be some strong pushback and I think that that's what the secretary is getting at when he's talking about these strong responses. BROWN: And, you know, obviously the U.S. is sending in aid, but there

are people, particularly Republican lawmakers, who want the U.S. to be doing more. And I'm going to get that in just a second but there was Senator Chris Coons, a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, saying this to our Dana Bash earlier about the Russia threat to Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): I think our work in the Senate and President Biden's work to strengthen deterrence is what is hopefully going to succeed. But I am gravely concerned that Putin will show once again aggression in Europe and cross the boundary into Ukraine in the coming days or weeks.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Susan, do you share Senator Coons' concern?

SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Look, I mean, the U.S. intelligence agencies have been very clear that this threat is a real threat, is a different threat than even a few months ago in the spring when Putin had an earlier military buildup that this risk of invasion is very real. You know, the administration officials who I've spoken to suggest that there's a very real chance of a significant incursion, not just minor incursion that President Biden spoke dismissively of the other day in his press conference.

So I think the signs point not to de-escalation at the moment but to, if anything, escalation and a failure of diplomatic talks that really were never concrete enough to resolve the situation.

BROWN: Right. And you have Ukraine along with, as I pointed out earlier, Steve, Republicans on the Hill pushing for more to be done. You have Republican Senator Joni Ernst pushing for the administration to take action now and saying not doing so will only make the situation worse. Listen to what she told CNN earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JONI ERNST (R-IA): We do need to go ahead and impose sanctions on Russia now. We need to show them that we mean business and we will be there for Ukraine should they invade. They see a very weak administration and President Putin sees every opportunity to do what he wants to do in Ukraine with very little pushback from the United States. So we need to have firm resolve with this.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Steve, is she right? Is a lack of hard action now on the part of the administration giving Vladimir Putin the opening he needs to push even further?

HALL: You know, you could go back and forth on that point. I mean, you could say, look, they've already done more than enough to warrant, you know, some sort of increased sanctioning. That's certainly true. The counter argument is if they don't respond, Putin doesn't really care that much about sanctions, and it hasn't stopped him before. The other argument is, look, if you're going to say there's going to be something strong, bad happen to you, Vladimir Putin in Russia if you invade, then you have to have something to back that up.

So if the idea is we don't want to go straight to war, we want to hit them with some sort of super sanctions or some sort of enhanced sanctions before it actually turns into a land war in Europe, then you can make that argument, too.

[18:10:01]

So it's a really complicated thing but, again, I think what Putin has learned in -- over the recent years is that he's going to keep pushing because there's no reason not to until somebody really pushes back hard at some point.

BROWN: Susan, last night the U.K. reported that the Kremlin was preparing to install a puppet government in Ukraine as part of a coming invasion of the country. Today the man the British said was being groomed to serve as president tells CNN he has no such part in any such plan.

The Russian embassy in the U.K. issued a statement about those claims that reads, in part, "Comical as these are, now is not the time for laughing. We are witnessing the actual professional level of people who alongside making absurd statements are providing Ukraine with lethal weapons, increasing their own military presence at Russian borders and encouraging Kiev to further undermine the Minsk agreements."

It goes on to say, "We resolutely call upon London to stop the stupid rhetorical provocations, quite dangerous in the current heated situation, and to contribute to genuine diplomatic efforts aimed at ensuring European security."

So, Susan, what do these responses to this intelligence from the U.K. tell you?

GLASSER: Well, look, it's not a surprise that the Russian statement would be like that. They are masters of not only disinformation but of sort of, you know, the Me Too-ism and, you know, claiming that the West is doing exactly what they themselves are doing and acting provocatively. It's very provocative to send 130,000 troops to your neighbor's border for no apparent immediate reason. And so obviously this is a manufactured crisis.

I would say that, you know, this is part of the Russian playbook that goes back to Soviet times when it comes to, you know, seeking to install a pro-Moscow puppet government. That's exactly what the Soviets did when they marched into Hungary during the Cold War, when they marched into Prague in 1968, and it's very consistent with the kind of military action that we've seen rather than being an either-or type of thing.

Clearly one of Putin's goals is to make sure that no matter what there is a more pro-Russia government. And the figure that the British intelligence identified is a figure associated with the toppled pro- Russian government of Yanukovich who had to flee the country in 2014.

And I should point out when it comes to this debate here inside the United States on sanctions, remember, this is the Republican Party who, you know, listened for four years as Donald Trump undercut their policy of sanctions toward Russia.

And to the extend there's been any enabling, it's really quite striking to hear Republicans renewing their tough rhetoric on Vladimir Putin in the context of this moment, I have to say.

BROWN: Susan Glasser, Steve Hall, thank you both.

Coming up this hour, countdown to the Beijing games, introducing Jamaica's very first alpine skier. Then a 10-year-old girl survives a brutal snowstorm by clinging to a dog for warmth. What a story that is.

Also ahead, why critics say don't listen to the celebrity endorsements as Bitcoin's value tanks.

And January 6th investigators reveal they've talked with Trump's former attorney general Bill Barr.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THOMPSON: We've had conversations with the former attorney general already.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Congresswoman Elaine Luria from the committee will join us live.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:17:42]

BROWN: Here in Washington, D.C. a protest against government mandates for COVID vaccinations with a smaller than expected crowd. Thousands took part in the "Defeat the Mandates" rally. Local and federal authorities were concerned the demonstration could also attract extremist groups. Another potential flash point the city now requires anyone 12 and older to show proof of vaccination to enter any indoor facilities.

CNN's Joe Johns has the latest.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Pamela, the "Defeat the Mandates" rally here in Washington, D.C. was visual evidence, as if we needed it, of the polarization in America over the pandemic. There was concern about this and skepticism simply because it was billed as an event for medical autonomy, in order words the right of people not to get the vaccine. The right of people not to wear the mask.

But digging deeper in interviews, what we heard from people who came to this march was that it was more about their skepticism of the government, skepticism of the news media, and about the pharmaceutical industry.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm in health care, worker. And so that has brought me out here due to the issues that I've had with my job and my current vaccination status. Multiple issues with HR and doctors treating me differently and discriminating against me because of my choices.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You should be able to believe what you want to believe no matter what. And that's why I'm here. As long as you don't hurt anybody in this country you can do anything you want.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: Politically what we did here today was a lot of misinformation and disinformation that we have heard before from the anti-vaccination movement and criticism of both the administration as well as Dr. Fauci -- Pamela.

BROWN: All right, Joe, thanks so much.

And there were protests against COVID rules in several European countries. The largest in Brussels. Belgian police say 50,000 people gathered to denounce the restrictions on gatherings as well as restaurants and bars. At least three officers and 12 protesters had to be hospitalized after violent clashes broke out. Police used tear gas and water cannons to disperse the crowd.

Joining us now CNN medical analyst, Dr. Leana Wen. She is also the former Baltimore health commissioner.

[18:20:02]

Dr. Wen, always great to see you. So we are seeing these protests against COVID restrictions and it feels like we're just all exhausted by two years of this, two plus years. From a public health view, does it concern you that people just seem less engaged and compliant?

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Well, it concerns me very much, Pamela, that there are people who are opposing vaccine requirements when actually it's vaccines that will allow us to get back to pre- pandemic normal. We know that people who are vaccinated are 13 times less likely to die. They are five times less likely to be infected and, therefore, to transmit COVID compared to somebody who is unvaccinated.

And so if we don't want any more restrictions, and frankly none of us do, we all want the pandemic to end, then we should be embracing vaccines because that is the key to pre-pandemic normal. BROWN: Former FDA commissioner Scott Gottlieb said this morning that

we're at least two months away before children under 5 can be vaccinated. Does that worry you given that we have no idea if a new variant will emerge before that? I know you're also a mom of young kids, as I am.

WEN: Well, it worries me very much as a mom of two kids under 5 and also as a physician and public health expert because we know that right now parents with young kids are making all kinds of decisions because we're concerned about our children. The best thing that parents and families in our situation could be doing is making sure that everybody around our children are vaccinated and boosted, that additional booster dose provides additional protection as well and, also, older siblings, if there are older siblings who are not yet vaccinated to get them vaccinated and protected, too.

And in the meantime we have to make these decisions that are really difficult, but I would say choose what it is in your life that's the most important. If going to school, going to daycare is really essential, do that but cut the indoor playdates especially while Omicron is still surging.

BROWN: All right, Dr. Leana Wen, thank you so much.

We have some breaking news just coming in to us. Sources telling CNN the U.S. embassy in Ukraine is going to be evacuating all nonessential personnel and family members of American diplomats as tensions with Russia continue to escalate.

CNN's Arlette Saenz joins me now from the White House with more. So what more are you learning here, Arlette?

SAENZ: Well, Pamela, this is a significant development. The State Department announcing that they are reducing the staff at the U.S. embassy in Ukraine. I want to read you the statement -- travel advisory that just went out a short while ago, talking about the departure of non-essential staff and family members.

It says, "On January 23rd," that is today, "The Department of State authorized the voluntary departure of U.S. direct hire employees and ordered the departure of eligible family members from embassy Kyiv due to the continued threat of Russian military action."

It says, "U.S. citizens in Ukraine should consider departing now using commercial or other privately available transportation options." Now CNN had reported on Friday that the embassy in Kyiv had asked that the State Department authorize the departure of family members and nonessential staff. This is certainly an escalation in the contingency planning that the U.S. has been making in the event that Russia were to invade Ukraine.

So at this moment there is this new travel advisory that has gone out as there are rising concerns about this tension regarding Russia and Ukraine, and whether Russia will actually follow through with that invasion. You heard Secretary of State Antony Blinken earlier today double down on that warning that any Russian invasion would result in severe consequences from the U.S. and allies.

The U.S., of course, is still trying to pursue that diplomatic route to de-escalate the situation between Russia and Ukraine but they are also saying they are prepared for all scenarios in the event that Russia would, in fact, invade the country.

BROWN: Arlette Saenz at the White House, thank you. We're going to have much more analysis on this breaking news right after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:28:34]

BROWN: More now on the breaking news we told you about moments ago. The U.S. embassy and Ukraine will reduce nonessential staff and family members of American diplomats as tensions with Russia continue to escalate.

CNN White House reporter Natasha Bertrand joins me now on the phone.

So what more are you learning about this move, Natasha?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (via phone): Yes, Pam, so this comes after CNN reported on Friday that the U.S. embassy in Kyiv had actually requested that the State Department authorize the departure of family members of personnel in Kyiv and also of the nonessential staff in Kyiv, non-emergency personnel. And we're learning now that the State Department has decided to grant that authorization because of reports, according to the State Department, that Russia is planning significant military action against Ukraine.

They continue in a statement saying that the security conditions particularly along Ukraine's borders in Russia-occupied Crimea and in Russia-controlled eastern Ukraine are unpredictable and can deteriorate with little notice. Demonstrations which have turned violent at times regularly occur throughout Ukraine including in Kyiv.

So this marks a dramatic escalation really of what CNN had reported last month which is that the U.S. was making contingency plans to evacuate Americans from the country if it came to that amid this massive Russian troop buildup along Ukraine's borders.

Now we are seeing that the embassy in Kyiv does actually wants to have that staff presence reduced because of the risk that are posed right now by Russia.

[18:30:05]

In the words of White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki Russia could invade really at any moment now -- Pam.

BROWN: All right, Natasha Bertrand, thanks so much.

And I want to bring back in CNN global affairs analyst Susan Glasser and former CIA chief of Russian operations Steve Hall. All right, so, Steve, what does this change suggest to you? The fact

that the State Department is giving nonessential staff and diplomats' families the opportunity to leave Ukraine, does it signal anything bigger in the coming changes in the U.S. position in Ukraine or something more eminent coming from Russia?

HALL: Well, it means a couple of different things. And if I heard Natasha's reporting correctly it's actually an order departure for families, which means --

BROWN: Yes.

HALL: You know, families are basically ordered home. The State Department and U.S. government takes the security and the safety of families, obviously that's the most important thing. However, what it does mean is that certain wires have been tripped because all embassies abroad have a plan that lays out precisely what it is that has to happen before these evacuations occur.

So, you know, the day before yesterday, they hadn't obviously been tripped but now the assessment has come in that more things have happened. We're not exactly sure what those are yet, that have caused the State Department to say, yes, families need to get out. Anybody who's not essential personnel to carry out the very basic duties of the embassy in Kyiv need to leave. And that is something that both Russia will notice and the Ukrainians will notice that as well.

BROWN: Right. So this marks essentially a new chapter in a sense, the fact that the U.S. is now pulling these nonessential personnel from the U.S. embassy there in Ukraine and the family members. This also comes on the heels of two big shipments of aid coming from the U.S. to Ukraine. So all of this together, what does it tell you, Susan?

GLASSER: Well, look, I do think it represents a next stage in the crisis and it's one, by the way that the Ukrainians have been very concerned about. They have been pushing very hard on President Biden and his administration not only to impose sanctions before there's a Russian invasion and to send further arms shipments but they were worried about exactly this kind of order coming from the State Department, a fear, you know, what is the morning going to look like in Kyiv?

Is there going to be, you know, a sense of increased alarm? Is this the U.S. government sending an official signal about, you know, what might happen? So it really has the possibility of, you know, affecting the political climate inside Ukraine as well that the U.S. has made a decision like this.

BROWN: And so, Steve, you had mentioned earlier that this is certainly something that Russia is paying attention to. What do you think the message is to Russia with this move?

HALL: Yes. How Russia interprets this is going to be extremely interesting. On the one hand they could interpret it in terms of, OK, you know, the Americans are pulling out their essential personnel and, by the way, a lot of other Western embassies watch what the Americans do and sort of follow their lead. So it wouldn't surprise me to see other Western countries also decide to draw down.

But Putin could interpret this as OK, I've really gotten their attention and they're really getting serious about this and be concerned about potential pushback or he could say this is great. I do have their attention but there's still nothing to stop me. All they're doing is evacuating family members. You know, in a sense it will make it easier for me to invade. I won't have to worry about accidentally killing, you know, Americans.

So it's a little early to determine exactly where Putin is going but it's going to be all part of I think a complex sort of analysis that he's probably doing in trying to decide do I do this and, if so, how and when.

BROWN: So if you look at the advisory there from the State Department. It says this move is due to the continued threat of Russian military action.

Susan, it was early December that we saw the numbers go up there of Russian troops at the border of Ukraine. I know that there are a lot of different considerations as you laid out, but why do you think now? What do you make of the fact that it is happening now?

GLASSER: Look, President Biden, his White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki, other U.S. officials, they have been as clear as I have ever seen in a crisis. They really don't want to be caught out and, you know, be accused of having been taken by surprise by Putin and whatever the Russians do next. And they have been very vocal and very clear at the kind of threat they say that the U.S. intelligence has assessed this massive force to be on Ukraine's border.

So I think part of it is the effort, once again, to, you know, to get out in front of whatever is coming next. But, remember, Biden said in his press conference just the other day he personally believes that it is likely that there will be a further invasion by Russia. Jen Psaki said it could come at any moment. So I think this is consistent with that message that we've been hearing from the Biden administration. There's no sign, by the way, that diplomacy is working at all.

BROWN: Right.

GLASSER: Or that this is the opposite of de-escalation.

[18:35:03]

BROWN: Right. It is. And on the diplomacy note, you know, you keep hearing from officials who are still trying that route but at this point, Steve, do you think that's a lost cause?

HALL: I'm not sure that it's a lost cause. I don't think I would go that far. But, you know, let's be honest, neither side has agreed to the other side's demands. Both sides have sort of said that the other side is unacceptable. So you wonder where exactly they go from here.

But to address this issue of the evacuation again and what has changed, you know, it's entirely possible that the information that the embassy is getting on the ground there might not have as much to do with the Russian troops or its concern about American personnel going to the eastern part of the country, the Donbass, where there's fighting.

But things like street violence, the possible closure of airports, the possible breakdown of infrastructure, cyberattacks that might accelerate all of that, those are things that makes the State Department and the U.S. government say, you know, I'm not sure this is a place where we want to have family members right now, or essential personnel need to stay, that's what they signed up for. But it might be getting too tenuous for families to stay behind based on some of those new things.

BROWN: All right, thanks for that analysis and perspective.

Steve Hall, Susan Glasser, appreciate it.

And much more ahead on this breaking news as the State Department reduces staff at the U.S. embassy in Ukraine. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:41:00]

BROWN: The chairman of the House Select Committee Investigating the January 6th Capitol attack now says they've had conversations with former attorney general Bill Barr.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THOMPSON: To be honest with you, we've had conversations with the former attorney general already. We've talked to the Department of Defense individuals. We are concerned that our military was part of this big lie on promoting that the election was false. So if you are using the military to potentially seize voting machines even though it's a discussion, the public needs to know.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: As the committee talks to Barr, they also want to hear from people like Ivanka Trump, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, Congressman Jim Jordan and even FOX host Sean Hannity. And despite text messages from Hannity urging members of the administration to make Trump back off the big lie, it continues. But Trump's former White House communications director thinks we're about to really see what was going on behind the scenes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: I think you're going to see the anatomy of the big lie begin to unfold when you see more text messages come out of people around Trump who knew the election fraud was a total myth. They were simply humoring him and privately saying, yes, we can't keep spreading this craziness. I think that chips away at Trump's credibility and I also think it really gets to him.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Former White House press secretary and communications director Stephanie Grisham joins me now. She's also the author of "I'll Take Your Questions Now: What I Saw at the Trump White House."

Hi, Stephanie, thanks for joining us tonight. So do you agree with Alyssah Farah there, your former colleague? Will the anatomy of the big lie eventually unfold?

STEPHANIE GRISHAM, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Thank you for having me and welcome back, by the way.

BROWN: Thank you.

GRISHAM: Yes, absolutely I agree with Alyssa fully. I think that layers are being peeled off like an onion right now to show that everybody around the president, certainly at the end but I will say out of my own experience for the entire time we were in office would do that. We would speak to each other privately, we would send texts to one another to try to get him off of a certain message or a certain tangent.

We would purposely try to put him in areas where he couldn't answer the press and their questions. So I do agree with Alyssa. I think that that's going to come out more and more. And I hope that people will begin to see that there were some good people around him trying to stop a lot of bad things.

BROWN: And on that note, I'm curious because as you well know the months before the insurrection former President Trump was pushing the big lie. I mean, even before the election he was saying if I lose, it's fraudulent. He pounded that message away time and time again. Is that something -- were you trying to push back on that at the time, that kind of messaging? Were there text messages among staff, like we need to pull that back? This could be really dangerous?

GRISHAM: So, you know, it's interesting because this goes along with what the first question that you asked me. No, me personally, I did not. I was working in the East Wing and I was walled off from a lot of information at that point. Mark Meadows had taken over as chief of staff, and he didn't want a lot of people, myself included, around the president.

So he really tightened the circle of who was around the president, and that's when I think you had people like Rudy Giuliani and Sidney Powell and others closer to him telling him just what he wanted to hear rather than voices of reason that oftentimes would get around him and, you know, at least give a different perspective.

BROWN: Right. And, of course, Trump was saying all of this publicly and, you know, we learned today that Trump's former attorney general Bill Barr is talking with the January 6th Committee. What do you think Barr has to offer the committee? I remember covering the White House as a reporter. He was there a lot. And, of course, he left a little bit earlier before Trump's term ended. But what do you think he could offer the committee? [18:45:03]

GRISHAM: You know, I don't know the answer to that. That's a tough one for me and I've been wondering myself just because of all the legal issues that would surround that much like I think speaking even to Rudy Giuliani or some of the White House counsel. I'm just not sure what they're going to be able to say and not say.

What I can say is I hope that the people who are speaking to the committee are being as transparent as possible and just laying out the facts of what happened, and I just hope that it's something that the American people will get to know and learn about well before the '22 midterms.

I think that, you know, Trump and his people right now are just trying to stall. That's why subpoenas are being ignored. That's why people are, you know, not coming in if they haven't been subpoenaed yet, et cetera. I think that they're stalling. And so I do hope that this kind of speeds up just a little bit.

BROWN: You told the committee that in the days leading up to the January 6th insurrection there were these secret meetings inside the residence of the White House. I'm curious, was it typical for him to hold these meetings, or did you notice a change just in the days -- those days leading up to the January 6th insurrection? Suddenly there were all these meetings in the residence. I'm just trying to get a better sense of what that really means? How much we should read into that?

GRISHAM: Yes. That's a great question. And actually thank you because I think it is being read into. But the answer is yes and yes. Yes, it was typical for him to hold meetings in the residence. Sometimes it was just because he wasn't ready to come down to the West Wing yet in that part of his day. Other times it was because he wanted to discuss things and he was paranoid about, you know, certain staff members at that point in his administration.

But at the end, yes. There were more meetings that seemed to be happening, and the reason I know that is because Mrs. Trump didn't necessarily like the meetings that would take place in the residence, which I totally understood. That was her home. And the room that the meetings took place in were only two doors down from her room. So I would hear about if a meeting was going to take place most of the time so I could warn her.

And towards the end, yes, there were more and more. Not that she seemed to mind, which was also an interesting piece for me at the end.

BROWN: Hmm. All right. Stephanie Grisham, thank you. I'm glad you're feeling better. I know you also recently had COVID as I did. So glad we're on the mend.

GRISHAM: Thank you so much. Thanks. Thank you much.

BROWN: All right. And be sure to join Jim Acosta this coming week as he hosts "DEMOCRACY IN PERIL" Monday through Friday at 9:00 Eastern only on CNN.

We're following breaking news this hour. The U.S. embassy in Ukraine will reduce nonessential staff and family members of American diplomats as tensions with Russia escalate.

Also ahead tonight, a 10-year-old girl survives a brutal snowstorm by clinging to a dog for warmth.

And introducing Jamaica's very first alpine skier now bound for the Beijing games.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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[18:52:19]

BROWN: Well, when alpine skiing get underway in Beijing, don't be shocked to see a Jamaican flag pop up on the scoreboard. Benjamin Alexander is the first Jamaican to ever qualify for Olympic alpine skiing. He was born in England to a British mother and Jamaican father and is now realizing a dream of representing his Caribbean roots. Get this, the 38-year-old retired DJ only took up skiing six years ago, now he's going to the Olympics.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN ALEXANDER, OLYMPIC ALPINE SKIER: I think all skiers are really excited to see a Jamaican skier, and honestly, after the events that happened in 2020, I think a lot has changed. People are now excited to see diversity where perhaps they might not have been as open and this warm to the suggestion.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Benjamin says he wants to inspire a new generation of Winter Olympians from the Caribbean. And good luck to him.

Now to this truly miraculous story of survival. A 10-year-old little girl in Russia vanished after leaving school right as a snow storm started pummeling her hometown. She was nowhere to be found setting off a frantic search in the frigid conditions. But she was found alive 18 hours later surviving the subzero temperatures, get this, by clinging to a dog for warmth in its outdoor kennel. Her family and doctors say she's doing just fine.

So be sure to look after your dog. They might just save your life one day. You never know. We hope the dog that was in that storm is also doing OK.

Meantime, a Michigan judge has apologized to a 72-year-old cancer patient for berating him about weeds on his property. The man who was a Bangladeshi immigrant claimed he was too weak to do the work. His son appeared with him in the online hearing and here's part of that exchange.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was then very weak -- I cannot look after on these things.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You should be ashamed of yourself. If I could give you jail time on this, I would.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it, ma'am, forgivable because my father is currently sick and we cleaned that after --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you see that photo?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am very sick, ma'am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is shameful. Shameful. The neighbor should not have to look at that. You should be ashamed of yourself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I am --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're going to jail.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Judge Alexis Krot changed her tune after more than 200,000 people signed a petition asking for her removal.

[18:55:02]

In a statement, she said, in part, "I made a mistake. I acted intemperately. I'm very embarrassed that I did so. I apologize to the person who appeared before me and to our entire community for having failed to meet the high standards we expect of our judicial officers and that I expect of myself." It's unclear if he will still have to pay the $100 fine for the weeds.

Well, we are following breaking news this hour. A busy Sunday night here. The U.S. embassy in Ukraine has just announced it's cutting back nonessential staff and family members of American diplomats, citing, quote, "reports Russia is planning significant military action against Ukraine." Our reporters are working their sources. We've got William Taylor, former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, ready to weigh in on this fast-moving situation.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM and we'll be right back.

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