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Boris Johnson Under Fire; Interview With State. Rep. Anna Eskamani (D-FL); Florida House Committee Passes 'Don't Say Gay' Bill; Virginia School Mask Mandate Fight; Republicans Threatening to Jail Democrats If They Win Back Congress?; President Biden to Speak With European Leaders. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired January 24, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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FMR. REP. NEWT GINGRICH (R-GA): And all these people who've been so tough and so mean and so nasty are going to be delivered subpoenas for every document, every conversation, every tweet, every e-mail.

When you have a Republican Congress, this is all going to come crashing down, and the wolves are going to find out that they're now sheep.

And they're the ones who are, in fact, going to, I think, face a real risk of jail.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Dana, have you heard anyone else talking about that level of retaliation other than Newt Gingrich?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Not out loud.

But you can bet that there is a lot of pressure on Republicans, if they do take control, particularly of the House, where subpoena power is so much easier when you have the majority than the Senate, to do the kind of thing that Newt Gingrich described.

And Newt Gingrich is not just your run-of-the-mill Republican. He is somebody who actually led a revolution to take over the House back in 1994, for the first time in decades, and he didn't govern the way he just described that he wants Republicans to do if they take over in the next election, but he is now a Trump acolyte.

And he is also speaking from the perspective of what Donald Trump would want. And they still -- they, the Republicans, if they do take control are still going to have to question whether they're going to listen to Donald Trump or whether they are going to prove that they can govern, because the best thing Democrats say that they would have going for them politically for 2024 is Republicans to act like that in 2022.

CAMEROTA: OK, Dana Bash, thank you.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: All right, top of the hour. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Victor Blackwell.

CAMEROTA: And I'm Alisyn Camerota.

Right now, in the White House Situation Room, President Biden is speaking with his European counterparts And the NATO secretary-general about the situation in Ukraine and the announcement we just got from the Pentagon that up to 8,500 -- quote -- "combat-capable U.S. troops" have been put on heightened alert in the event that Putin decides to invade Ukraine.

BLACKWELL: Tens of thousands of Russian troops have amassed along the country's Eastern border and the U.S. State Department announced it will reduce staff at the American Embassy in Kiev.

With us now CNN, Pentagon correspondent Oren Liebermann and CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson, who's live in Moscow.

Oren, let's start with you.

What do we need to know about the orders for these troops?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, these aren't yet deployment orders. That means that no U.S.-based troops are headed over to Europe right now.

But it is one big step closer to that happening. The Pentagon announcing that as many as 8,500 U.S. troops based in the U.S. are put on heightened alert, prepare-to-deploy orders. Now, some of them didn't get -- were already on heightened alert, meaning they will go from 10 days of a heads-up to an even shorter heads-up of perhaps five days.

But the Pentagon has made clear that some of these troops were not yet on heightened alert, meaning they are now in that essentially more ready state to be ready to go.

Now, Pentagon Press Secretary John Kirby detailed a couple of different scenarios in which they would be given the deployment orders. First would be if the NATO response force is activated, if NATO decides to activate its 40,000-strong response force in response to Russian aggression and Russian posturing on the borders of Ukraine.

Another situation, he said, which might warrant the deployment of these 8,500 troops would be if the -- the deteriorating security situation along the eastern flank of NATO. And what's clear now is these troops aren't heading into Ukraine, but they are intended to bolster the presence of NATO allies along NATO's Eastern flank.

Here is how Pentagon Press Secretary John Kirby detailed what these prepare-to-deploy orders will look like right now.

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JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: In some cases, units would go from, say, 10 days prepare to deploy. Now they're at five days. That's not the case for every unit that is being notified that they're on a heightened alert.

Some are simply more ready and postured that way than others. The idea, though, is that all of these units that he is putting on prepare to deploy will be ready to go on a shortened time frame.

Again, no final decision has been made to deploy them.

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LIEBERMANN: In terms of what these troops would be doing if they deploy, Press Secretary John Kirby said it would be brigade combat teams, aviation, logistics, medical, transportation, as well as intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance, so a number of different capabilities, a number of different missions these troops are capable of doing, crucially, if that deployment order comes.

The goal here, the statement being put forward by the Pentagon is that there is unity behind NATO, and they are standing strong together in the face of the buildup of Russian troops on Ukraine's borders. That's the statement coming from the Pentagon.

But, crucially, it is behind the diplomacy that the U.S. is still pushing.

CAMEROTA: So, Nic, what's the expectation here of how Vladimir Putin will respond to this announcement?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, his press secretary earlier today talking about some of the other things that had happened over the weekend, and this is sort of in the vein of that.

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From the Kremlin's perspective, they're calling it informational hysteria, false information, an effort to sort of build up an agenda for some kind of action.

But I think let's step back for a second here. What President Putin is trying to avoid here is more NATO close to his border. That's what he's going to get. So this is a deterrence force. But, also, let's think about how NATO is postured. It didn't have numbers of troops from other nations in the Baltic states and in Poland as much now as it did back in 2014. It moved them in after 2014 because Russia invaded Ukraine and annexed Crimea. But the force that was put in, the NATO force was a small force,

hundreds of troops, not thousands. It was a trip wire, a trip wire, it was explained at the time by NATO, that if Russia was to cross over and trip that wire, other forces, NATO forces could be rushed to the border.

So what is actually happening now? That trip wire is being bolstered. NATO is putting itself on a higher level of readiness for whatever may happen, particularly in those Baltic nations who are quite isolated. They were under -- lived under the Soviet Union for so long. They're very concerned about their size and location and what Russia is maneuvering to do right now, their proximity to Belarus, where there's going to be massive military operations under way.

So, in all of this right now, President Putin is very likely to frame it for public consumption as Western media hysteria. But he's going to see this as a potential worsening of the environment he was already worried about.

BLACKWELL: Nic Robertson, Oren Liebermann, thank you both.

Joining us now is Michael Bociurkiw. He's a global affairs analyst and the former spokesperson for the Organization for Security and Co- operation in Europe. And CNN military analyst Colonel Cedric Leighton is back with us.

Thank you both.

Michael, let me start with you and how you see this announcement from the Pentagon changing the equation.

MICHAEL BOCIURKIW, GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Good to be with you.

Well, look, it's a good move. I think it will reassure Ukraine and NATO members. But I have to tell you, Victor, I was watching Russian state television prime time today. And what seems to be happening now is that the Russian-backed fighters, the thugs in Eastern Ukraine, are heightening the rhetoric.

They're preparing to actually, I think, accept Russian forces into their territory. The reason I say that is, they have said they have just deployed more multiple rocket launch systems, more snipers, and, again, ratcheting up the rhetoric, saying the Ukrainians, the West are putting all of this hardware, military hardware on our borders.

They're speaking very loudly. So we may -- I think Russia will use this as a pretext to go in. And I think that is part of the three options we usually talk about, which isn't being looked at as carefully as it should by Biden and the West.

CAMEROTA: And what do you mean by that, Michael?

BOCIURKIW: Well, look, I think that's -- I mean, it sends a chill down my back, trust me, to say this, but I think this is the option Putin may choose because he knows he will get away with it. I hate to say it, and respectfully to Ukrainian friends and to the

president. I think the Donbass is so bombed out. I mean, it's one of the most mined areas in the world, according to UNICEF, that it's probably regarded more so by the West as a territory that is dispensable. And, of course, that isn't the case.

It's bad precedent to give away sovereign territory like that. But I'm saying, look, the other sign we're seeing right now which is very ominous, the group I used to work for, the OSCE, had a lot of monitors in that part of Ukraine, occupied territories. And they have been blocked on a daily basis right now.

So, the only thing I can see happening right now is they're blocking them in order to bring in all of this heavy weaponry. And then, finally, Putin has been given giving hundreds of thousands of Russian passports to pro-Russian residents of the Donbass. Now he has even a further pretext to go in and say they need to be protected.

BLACKWELL: Colonel, we have heard from the White House that they say that we're conveying very clearly that now is the time to leave, telling American citizens they should leave Ukraine, drawing down their diplomats at the embassy in Kiev. Some of these, if these troops are deployed, they could be used to evacuate Americans from Ukraine.

How much of what we're seeing, even this elevated exchange with European allies, is influenced by what we watched in the summer from the evacuation and the -- of Afghanistan, the decisions we're making? They're trying to avoid that in and around that region.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, Victor, I think there's quite a bit that's kind of served as a template if you will, a bad template, for how not to do things when it came to the evacuation out of Afghanistan.

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So the Biden administration is a -- they know that they had a logistical success getting out of Kabul, and that was -- in terms of the volume of people and those kinds of things, but a political disaster.

And that was the big issue, I think, with that. And so they want to avoid any type of disaster should there be a need to evacuate anybody out of Kiev or any other part of Ukraine. When they look at these things from a planning perspective, Victor, what they're trying to do is, they're trying to minimize risk. They're trying to put forces in place before they're actually needed.

So this is the first move in that kind of a calculation.

CAMEROTA: Michael, just so I understand what you were saying, given what's happened in the Donbass region, are you saying that you believe that now it is a fait accompli and that Putin will use this latest announcement as a provocation, whether or not it's just protective or not, he will use it as a provocation and that he will now go into Ukraine? And is there anything that can change -- if that's true, is there anything that can change the course of this?

BOCIURKIW: Yes, I believe that's the case.

I think it's been over the past few weeks where Putin has been quite concerned about the buildup of Western military muscle, Western advisers, that sort of thing. So he's looking at one of several options in terms of how to push the West back.

Going officially into the Donbass, into the occupied territories would be the easiest for them. I know, from being there, I have seen the rebels myself, and I have seen Russians there in service military uniforms as well, that, yes, they're already there. And it would be easy for them to officially take over that part of Ukraine.

The other thing is, the West does not have as big as a buildup of armaments and of personnel as it should on that so-called front line. So it might take them some time to respond to this type of provocation.

One more thing, Alisyn, if I can. We also have to remember that there is a war going on right now. I'm not only talking about Crimea and the Donbass, but the hybrid war. Just in the past few days, there have been massive false bomb threats phoned into Ukrainian schools, to Ukrainian -- Kiev subway stations and also just today to Zaporizhzhia.

So there's a lot going on that is working to destabilize Ukraine, working to destabilize the Zelensky administration. We have a lot of different factors at play right now that should give the West a lot of concern.

BLACKWELL: All right, Michael Bociurkiw and Colonel Cedric Leighton, thank you both.

LEIGHTON: You bet.

BOCIURKIW: Pleasure.

CAMEROTA: All right, we have some breaking news, another revelation involving Boris Johnson. The embattled British prime minister has faced revelation after revelation that he defied his own COVID lockdown orders.

BLACKWELL: Now there's a new one to report, this one tied to his birthday.

Let's go to see an international anchor Bianca Nobilo in London.

Bianca, what are you hearing?

BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, this is now, by my count, around the ninth or 10th party that we have heard about occurring in Downing Street during a time of strict lockdown in the United Kingdom.

What we're hearing is that, on the prime minister's birthday on the 19th of June 2020, when the country was in lockdown, there were apparently two parties that happened in Downing Street, one at 2:00 p.m. reportedly inside the Cabinet Office with, a CNN affiliate is reporting, up to 30 people attending.

Downing Street says the prime minister was there for no longer than 10 minutes, and then another gathering on the same day, his birthday, in the evening, with, Downing Street says, just a few close family and friends reportedly outside.

But the reports that our affiliate has been getting and what I have been hearing from some of my sources as well corroborate a set of events which would be in direct, direct contrast with the guidelines that were enforced at the time when, in the United Kingdom, you could not socialize with anybody indoors, and you could meet six people outdoors.

Now, I think we're at the point in all of these revelations about the prime minister where no one is shocked. It's more of a straw breaking the camel's back situation. There are already multiple calls for him to resign, not just within the opposition and the country at large, but within his own party.

He is considered to be on the precipice of being pushed into a vote of no confidence, which could potentially end his premiership. He's also at the moment the subject of an investigation to see whether or not he misled Parliament or broke the law over ignoring his own COVID guidelines.

So he is on wafer-thin ice. And this latest revelation certainly makes his position all the more precarious.

BLACKWELL: Bianca Nobilo for us in London, thank you.

Several Virginia school districts are testing the legal authority of their newly seated governor by suing to stop his executive order that would ban mask mandates in schools. We have got that story ahead.

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And a Florida House committee approves a bill being called Don't Say Gay that would ban discussions about sexual orientation and identity in schools. What does that mean?

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CAMEROTA: Seven school boards are challenging Virginia Republican Governor Glenn Youngkin's order to ban mask mandates.

BLACKWELL: The lawsuit comes on the first day that the governors new order goes into effect allowing parents to decide if the children wear masks in school.

CNN's Eva McKend joins us now.

So, what do we know?

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EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER: Well, good afternoon, Alisyn and Victor.

Just to give you a sense of what things look like this morning across many schools in Virginia, you have the governor and some school districts essentially giving two conflicting orders, and you have parents showing up to schools with kids unmasked saying, hey, they are following the governor, while you have other parents with kids wearing masks saying they are following the school district.

This is why these seven school boards are bringing this lawsuit against the governor, the largest school district among them, Fairfax County. They argue the governor is in violation of the state's constitution.

And school officials are seeking an immediate injunction. That would halt the governors order and end this chaos we see with these two disparate messages.

Now, the part of the state constitution they cite is a section that states the supervision of schools is done by school boards, and they also think the governor is in violation of state law passed last year that requires Virginia school districts to follow federal guidelines to the extent possible.

Of course, the CDC continues to recommend masking inside K-12 schools for everyone over the age of 2.

Meanwhile, here is what we are hearing from the governor's office. A spokeswoman says -- quote -- "We are disappointed that these school boards are ignoring parents' rights. The governor and attorney general are in coordination and are committed to aggressively defending parents' fundamental right to make decisions with regard to their child's upbringing, education and care as the legal process plays out."

CAMEROTA: Eva, speaking of Virginia's new attorney general, the A.G. is also making news by firing some prominent university lawyers. So what's that about?

MCKEND: Well, Alisyn, this decision is raising eyebrows, with some arguing these dismissals appear politically motivated.

An ousted University of Virginia lawyer, Tim Heaphy, was on leave to help lead the House's investigation into the January 6 attack on the Capitol. We, of course, know how that investigation has been characterized on the right.

Well, the attorney general's office saying, though, that they want university counsel to give legal advice based on law, in their view, and not the philosophy of a university, so lots going on in the commonwealth, Alisyn and Victor.

BLACKWELL: A lot indeed.

Eva McKend, thank you.

CAMEROTA: OK, now to this story. A Florida House committee passed a bill last week that would ban discussions about sexual orientation or gender identity in schools. It's being called the Don't Say Gay bill.

LGBTQ advocates say that this will stigmatize students.

CAMEROTA: But sponsors of the bill say that it's to prevent curriculum that is not age-appropriate. A similar bill has been introduced in the Florida Senate.

Democratic Florida State Rep. Anna Eskamani is with us now.

Thank you for your time.

Let's start here. You oppose this bill. Tell us why.

STATE. REP. ANNA ESKAMANI (D-FL): Wholeheartedly.

Every time is appropriate to acknowledge that LGBTQ+ people and families exist. And anyone who disagrees has a position rooted in homophobia and transphobia. And it's patently offensive for the state of Florida to consider such legislation.

CAMEROTA: But, Representative, was there something that prompted this? Was there lots of discussion of sexuality happening in Florida elementary schools? What was the predicate for this?

ESKAMANI: Absolutely not.

In reality, this is another effort by Governor Ron DeSantis, who is trying to fight with Trump for supremacy among the Republican Party, to appeal to his base.

This is all about playing politics with people's lives. And what we stressed during committee is that we can't erase LGBTQ+ people, especially not in our schools.

I represent Pulse nightclub in my district. Every day, we have young people who ask questions about what happened at Pulse, who was impacted by pulse. It's so important that we can have these conversations and talk about every type of family within our schools.

BLACKWELL: So I have read the bill. It's only a couple pages now. And I'm trying to understand.

It's written so broadly that it might be aimed at eliminating conversations about LGBTQ+ families and trans -- I mean, transgender people. But for what it says, you can't discuss sexual orientation or gender identity. That eliminates cisgenders. That eliminates straight people, because those are orientations and identities too.

How do you ever enforce this?

ESKAMANI: You are correct. And, actually, this point was brought up in committee more than once,

that the efforts to attack LGBTQ+ people actually ends up attacking every person. And the bill sponsor really couldn't explain that to us, of how and why this bill is so broad.

But I think the most important point to take away is that this is an attempt to erase LGBTQ+ people from Florida schools. And in a state that is so diverse as ours, we have made so many gains in embracing every type of family. And this is a step backwards purely for a politically motivated agenda.

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CAMEROTA: Chasten Buttigieg, who's the husband of Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg, tweeted about this.

He said: "This will kill kids @RonDeSantisFL. You are purposely making your state a harder place for LGBTQ kids to survive in. In a national survey, 42 percent of LGBTQ youth seriously considered attempting suicide last year. Now they can't talk to their teachers?"

So what's the plan, Representative?

ESKAMANI: Well, I so appreciate that point.

We know that suicide is the second leading cause of death among young people, but those who identify as LGBTQ+ have even more dire outcomes. It is so important that, as Democrats, we stay united, but also reach out to those of a different political persuasion.

And, indeed, even in this committee where the bill was first heard, there were Republicans who expressed concern. So I'm hopeful we will be able to find unlikely alliances in stopping this dangerous and bad bill.

CAMEROTA: OK, we will be watching.

Representative Anna Eskamani, thank you very much.

BLACKWELL: Thanks so much.

CAMEROTA: All right, now to this.

Five New York City officers have been shot just since the start of this year. The city is dealing with a series of violent crimes. And the new mayor, Eric Adams, just laid out part of his plans to do something about this.

So we will tell you what he said.

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