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DOJ Reviewing Fake Elector Certificates; U.S. to Send Written Response to Russia; Johnson Won't Resign; New York State Mask Mandate Temporarily Back. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired January 26, 2022 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:26]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: A very good Wednesday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Bianna Golodryga.

We are following two major stories this hour.

First, a CNN exclusive.

The Justice Department is now investigating fake Electoral College certifications that falsely declared former President Trump the winner of seven swing states that he lost in 2020. The bogus certificates contained the signatures of Trump supporters and, in some cases, were by top officials representing the Republican Party in each state. We'll have more on where the investigation stands straight ahead.

SCIUTTO: Plus, tensions and threats heat up as talks stall and worries grow over a possible second Russian invasion of Ukraine. President Biden and his administration telling CNN this morning that a written response to Russia's security demands could be presented as soon as today. The Kremlin has warned it will take what it calls an appropriate response if it deems the U.S. response not constructive and if the west continues what Russia describes, even as it mounts forces on the border, as an aggressive line.

GOLODRYGA: But we do begin this morning with the DOJ investigating those fake Electoral College certifications.

CNN's senior justice correspondent Evan Perez sat down for an exclusive interview with Deputy Attorney General Lisa Monaco.

An extraordinary interview at that, Evan. What did she tell you?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bianna, one of the first things that we wanted to discuss, obviously, was the idea that the Justice Department is looking at the coopla (ph) that, of course, we have been talking about on the air here and the idea that there were these alternate electors in seven states and we know that state prosecutors have asked the Justice Department to investigate what -- whether there was a federal law broken here. And so that's one of the things I asked Lisa Monaco, the deputy attorney general. And here is her answer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LISA MONACO, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERA: Well, first, on the issue you raised in terms of fraudulent elector certifications as has been reported, we've received those referrals. Our prosecutors are looking at those. And I can't say anything more on ongoing investigations.

But, more broadly, look, the attorney general has been very, very clear. We are going to follow the facts and the law wherever they lead to address conduct of any kind and at any level that is part of an assault on our democracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREZ: Bianna and Jim, look, this is an important acknowledgement from the Justice Department because it's the first time that we've heard even a hint of an investigation that could look into these associates of the former president, who were orchestrating this effort around the country. Some of these alternate electors, quote/unquote alternate electors, were smart enough when they were given these certificates. They altered the language to try to cover themselves legally. Others did not.

SCIUTTO: Evan, and I know it's early. These are Trump allies involved in this. Do we know if the Justice Department's investigation could include the president's -- the former president's, I should say, involvement in this?

PEREZ: Right. Well, we don't know, Jim, but we do know that some of his allies, like Rudy Giuliani, were deeply involved in trying to organize this effort. And so you heard from the deputy attorney general that this will go as far as it goes. And we don't -- we know, obviously, that there's always a high bar to go after a former president. But this is a serious issue that the Justice Department now is trying to review to see whether there's a federal crime that was committed in this effort.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: Evan Perez, thank you.

PEREZ: Sure.

SCIUTTO: OK, let's discuss now with CNN's senior legal analyst Elie Honig. He's a the assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York.

Elie, good to have you back. Today, you and I have discussed this many times, the most serious

investigation as it relates to the former president and his allies was and is the one in Georgia, right? It's criminal. It looks at specific election interference by Trump. I wonder, do you put this in a similar category in terms of seriousness?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I do, Jim. So, first of all, I think the criminal investigations, when we're sort of surveying the landscape of the various legal problems facing the former president and those around him, the criminal investigations have to be of the most concern because, of course, they carry the most consequence.

Now, if we're looking at DOJ and Georgia, I think, first of all, you always have to be little more worried about DOJ. Federal prosecutors tend to have more resources, more ability, better laws to charge under.

[09:05:02]

So I'd be more concerned about DOJ than the Georgia Fulton County district attorney. But ultimately the question for both of those prosecutors will be, can they prove a case beyond a reasonable doubt? It's a high bar. And as you said before, I think the bar is, as a practical matter, even higher if you're talking about a former president.

GOLODRYGA: Elie, this interview, and this news, got a lot of attention, and rightly so, because, correct me if I'm wrong, but it is highly unusual for the DOJ to be commenting publicly about an investigation that's ongoing like this, correct?

HONIG: You are absolutely correct, Bianna. If you ask prosecutors a thousand times to comment on whether they're investigating a certain person or a certain subject, 999 of those times the response will be, we do not comment, we do not confirm or deny the existence of any investigation, no comment, that's it. The fact that Lisa Monaco, the number two person in the entire Justice Department, the deputy attorney general, made these comments has to have been deliberate. Lisa Monaco is as disciplined and careful as it gets.

And so the question will be, why. And based on my experience in DOJ, and as a prosecutor, there's always a tension. You never want to be, you never can be driven by political considerations. But there also comes a point where you do have a need to reassure the public, we're aware of this, we're doing something, because you cannot lose public trust as a prosecutor.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And it comes, listen, we should note, as the Justice Department has come under some criticism, right, even from Democrats for not pursuing potential election wrongdoing aggressively enough.

I do want to ask before we go, Elie, what specific law or laws might have been broken with these fake electoral receipts, if you want to call them that, ballots?

HONIG: Yes, Jim. And I think, by the way, the fact that we're talking about documents that weren't just sort of drafted and then kicked around in back rooms in the Willard Hotel, these were documents that were drafted and submitted to the National Archives. That is a federal agency, en route to Congress.

I think that places this more squarely in the realm of potential crimes. It is a federal crime to submit a false document or to make a false statement to the federal government if your intent is to defraud. And so I think the question here is going to be, what was the intent behind these documents? I think prosecutors will be looking to see, were they trying to mislead or trick or overpower Congress in order to install the wrong electors? I think the defense will be, and Evan alluded to this, the defense will be, no, we weren't trying to trick anybody, we just wanted to have these in place in case the courts came in and reversed anything or Congress reversed anything. Some of the elector certificates, two of the seven, actually say that. The other five do not, though. And so I think it's going to be a stronger case to make against the five that do not say that.

GOLODRYGA: Well, listen, as more and more information comes out and reporting comes out on this, it is striking how well planned and coordinated this all was as well.

Elie Honig, thank you so much.

Well, we'll have more CNN exclusive reporting from that sit-down with the deputy attorney general later this hour. Do stay with us for the administration's plan to tackle the major uptick also in violent crime in this country.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

Other major story we're following this morning, rapidly evolving crisis on the Russia/Ukraine border.

CNN national security correspondent Kylie Atwood, she's at the State Department this morning, CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson in Moscow.

Kylie, let's begin with you. A written response now by the U.S. to Russia's security demands. Do we know in general what message the U.S. sent here?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen, we're expecting that this is going to be sent from the United States to Russia as soon as today at some point this week.

And here's what we know about this, Jim. It is going to largely follow the contours of what the United States has been saying publicly. First, it's not expected to diagnose the likelihood of Ukraine joining NATO in the short-term. Even though President Biden said that that was unlikely in his public remarks last week, you've heard from Biden administration officials saying we're not going to negotiate NATO's open door policy, so we shouldn't expect that this written proposal, this response to Russia is going to do that.

But, secondly, we do expect that it's going to lay out the general areas where the U.S. thinks they can work with Russia on security issues. Issues such as the placement of missiles, issues such as risk reduction, issues such as nuclear, strategic nuclear weapons, nonstrategic nuclear weapons, things like that. And administration officials say that this proposal is going to go slightly deeper than what we have heard from U.S. officials thus far.

And they expect that, listen, what they're putting on the table here could prompt actual negotiations with Russia. But the key here is that President Putin is the decisionmaker. And administration officials that I spoke with acknowledge that it is his decision if he takes what they put forth and tries to fuel diplomacy further. But the United States thinks it's in their best interest to put these ideas on the table, Russia has been asking them for them, and really to test if Russia is serious about diplomacy or not.

[09:10:06]

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, Russia expecting a written response not only from the U.S. to its demands, but from NATO as well.

And we do want to get to Moscow, where, Nic, diplomats from Russia, Ukraine,, Germany and France are meeting in Paris this morning. This is the first time this group has met in over two years.

What is the latest?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, the foreign minister was speaking to the lower house of parliament here, the state Duma, and he said that he expected to put a lot of pressure -- that the Russian side would put a lot of pressure on the Germans and the French, who are in that meeting, to push Kyiv to get into face to face talks with the Russian-backed separatists in the east of the country, in Donbas. They -- the government in Kyiv has said that's not something they're likely to do.

But I think there's -- you know, there's sort of a bigger picture of what's playing out here with Donbas at the moment. And we got a flavor of that when Lavrov was speaking to the Duma. Not only did he say that if the United States isn't constructive and continues in its aggressive lines that there would be an appropriate response. He didn't say that they would go to war. But that's the sort of language they've used before, a military response. There was a big round of applause in the Duma.

But this all comes on the same day when the Russian ministry of foreign affairs, his office, has been tweeting out that those weapons systems the United States is supplying to the Ukrainian government will end up in the hands of what they -- the Russians describe as terrorists. They'll be used as a provocation to start a war in Donbas.

You've had on national television today separatists from Donbas saying -- saying this, running side by side with pictures of U.S. military trainers, training Ukrainian forces on those weapons systems. So separatists saying Russia needs to give us weapons and then back in the Duma again with Lavrov, you have Lavrov saying, Russia will protect its citizens. Their safety is our priority.

Remember this as well, that Russia has given out thousands upon thousands upon thousands of Russian passports to residents in Donbas. There is, in essence, you can see the creation of a narrative in Russia of a reason to go to war across the border.

SCIUTTO: Well, a false one, right, Nic? I mean Russia's been arming those, quote/unquote, separatists for eight years in eastern Ukraine. By the way, speaking of arming, they gave them a Buk missile that shot down MH-17 over Europe a number of years ago. Do they have any answers to their eight-year presence in eastern Ukraine?

ROBERTSON: They deny, deny, deny, deny, deny. And that's what Lavrov did today. He literally said in parliament to the Duma, I reassure you, or words to that effect, we do not have any involvement, engagement across the border.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Yes.

ROBERTSON: Now every analyst will tell you that's not true. And every government official here, you say that to, they'll say, then prove it.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

ROBERTSON: And, of course, without the access to prove it, you can't prove it.

SCIUTTO: And, by the way, they also annexed Crimea as well. Part of Ukraine.

ROBERTSON: Proof. Proof, right?

SCIUTTO: Anyway, these are -- these are small facts in the midst of the propaganda.

Nic Robertson, Kylie Atwood, thanks very much.

ROBERTSON: And they are facts.

SCIUTTO: Coming up next this morning, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson is rejecting once again heated calls for him to resign. This as he awaits a report about his party, several of them, during a Covid lockdown.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BORIS Johnson, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I don't deny it. For all sorts of reasons many people may want me out of the way. But I'll tell you the reason he wants me out of the way. Because he knows that this government can (ph) be trusted to deliver.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: Also ahead, the Federal Reserve meets today amid a volatile week on Wall Street. How their crucial decision about interest rates could impact your money. And Apple gets a restraining order against a woman who has been

stalking CEO Tim Cook for more than a year, even trespassing at his home. We'll have details on the disturbing photos she sent him coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:18:18]

GOLODRYGA: This morning, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson is insisting that he will not resign as any moment now a report could be released on those alleged parties at Downing Street during the Covid lockdown. The report expected to reveal whether Johnson violated the very Covid restrictions his own government laid out while the rest of the nation was forced to follow them.

Just take a listen to this exchange earlier between the prime minister and his opposition, the Labour Party.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEIR STARMER, LEADER, U.K. LABOUR PARTY: I think the prime minister said, yes, he agrees that code does apply to him. And, therefore, if he misled parliament, he must resign.

On the 8th of December -- looks critical, he said it. On the 8th of December, the prime minister told this house, I have been repeatedly assured, since these allegations emerged, there was no party. So, since he acknowledges the ministerial code applies to him, will he now resign?

BORIS Johnson, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: No, Mr. Speaker.

He would have kept us in lockdown in the summer, Mr. Speaker. He would have taken us back into lockdown at Christmas, Mr. Speaker. And if precisely because we didn't listen to captain hindsight that we have the fastest growing economy in the G-7, Mr. Speaker. And we have got all the big calls right.

STARMER: The guy that said in hindsight he now appreciates it was a party. We've discovered the real captain hindsight, haven't we, Mr. Speaker?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Got to love -- got to love those moments on the floor of parliament.

CNN's Salma Abdelaziz joins us now outside 10 Downing Street.

Salma, you have this report, but you also have an investigation by metropolitan police of this, which is remarkable.

[09:20:06]

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. Jim and Bianna, these next few hours could be make or break for the prime minister because, as you said, there are now two investigations into allegations that multiple parties took place right behind me here, at the prime minister's office and residence. Parties across multiple lockdowns, over the course of two years.

The first of those investigations, of course, being led by a senior civil servant, Sue Gray, the Gray Report. And that report had been sharing information throughout their investigation with the metropolitan police. And the police said yesterday, now they're launching their own probe because it seems some of these events could have potentially breached Covid rules. Criminal offenses could have occurred just so Downing Street staff could party. We could be looking at staffers just behind me here getting fines for breaking lockdown restrictions.

But it's the Gray Report that is expected any moment now that has the prime minister wringing his hands. And, yes, it is led by a senior civil servant, so it's impartial, but it is not completely independent. Johnson himself will get that report first and it will be up to the prime minister to make two key decisions, when he releases the report, does he do it immediately, or does he wait? And, most critically, how much of the report to release. And that's when parliament got really rowdy today when the opposition lawmaker asked Prime Minister Boris Johnson, will you release the report in full. And he evaded the question.

And this really matters, Jim and Bianna, because that report, the Gray Report, again, is supposed to provide that detailed breakdown, that minute by minute timeline of what happened at these parties, who was involved, and, most importantly, what did the prime minister know, if he knew about these parties. And, yes, the public has in many ways made a decision. The latest snap polling showing two-thirds of adults in this country want the prime minister to resign. But it's all going to come down to his own party, the conservative party, as to whether or not they push out Prime Minister Boris Johnson, whether or not he is still fit to lead, whether or not he is still the man to run the country. And that report, when it comes out, any moment now, it's going to help them make that decision.

Jim and Bianna?

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, well, listen, Salma, Jim, Johnson is a master of deflection and changing the narrative. And from what we just heard from him, in that sound byte at least, it seemed that he was arguing that the lockdown had been going on too long, right?

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: Never mind that that was his own government that put those restrictions in at the time. It's just unbelievable to see how this is all playing out.

SCIUTTO: Changing the subject.

GOLODRYGA: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Classic, political strategy.

GOLODRYGA: Salma Abdelaziz, thank you, as always.

SCIUTTO: Back here in the U.S., New York's state indoor mask mandate is now temporarily back in effect after an appeals court judge granted a stay in this ongoing case just one day after a lower court struck down the decision. The ruling adds another twist to an already complicated matter as schools across the state remain divided and, Bianna, parents, probably confused.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, and if they're confused, they're definitely not alone because right now at least 15 New York school districts have made masks optional, while nine say they're sticking to the requirement.

CNN's Jean Casarez is live from New York.

And, Jean, this constant back and forth causing more headaches, more confusion for parents, school administrators, and teachers.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: What more are we learning?

CASAREZ: Absolutely. Well, this is sort of the lull before the storm because a stay was issued yesterday by an appellate court, which means that everyone has to wear a mask. So, what was in place continues to be in place. And then on Friday, briefs will be submitted to the appellate court and then there will be argument and we'll see how the appellate court rules on this issue.

You know, we saw yesterday where the state of New York is really going with this, talking about that -- that if masks are not in place, that children won't have to wear masks in school, that indoor gatherings, people won't have to wear masks. And it's all about irreparable harm.

Let's look at what Attorney General Letitia James said yesterday. She said, quote, nearly three years into the Covid-19 pandemic, we know that wearing a mask saves lives. This mandate and today's decision are critical in helping to stop the spread of this virus and protect individuals, young and old. We will continue to do everything in our power to prioritize the health and well-being of all New Yorkers.

Now the other side, because this is originally the plaintiffs, now they are the petitioners and respondents. They are saying, quote, my comment is that the states' argument is speculative and ignores that nothing justifies an unconstitutional law. Further, folks could wear masks and still take whatever protective measures they feel is appropriate. And what about all the children who today saw their friends smile for the very first time in years, the children who got to see what their teachers look like? Mrs. Hochul cannot use fear to violate the Constitution.

[09:25:01] Now, here is something that is not being talked about. It's in some of the legal documents because I've been reading them. The legislature had enacted years ago broad authority by the governor in a state of public emergency. But last year, when Andrew Cuomo was the governor in March of 2021, the legislator voted to really curtail the powers of the governor in that public state of emergency. And that is what the other side is relying upon, saying, we were not in a state of emergency when you enacted that everyone has to wear a mask. Therefore, this is unconstitutional.

SCIUTTO: Jean, it's remarkable. It would be nice to have some clarity.

GOLODRYGA: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Thanks so much for covering.

CASAREZ: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Still ahead, a CNN exclusive sit-down with the deputy attorney general, Lisa Monaco. How the Justice Department is taking on the issue of rising violent crime and guns across the country.

And we are moments away from the opening bell on Wall Street. Futures actually looking up for today. Yesterday, the Dow took another 1,000 point swing. Again, it clawed back from the worst losses thanks to strong outlooks from companies American Express, Johnson & Johnson and IBM. The Nasdaq ended the day down 2.3 percent, S&P down 1.2 percent. All of this resulting from a number of things, Russia/Ukraine tensions, some mixed corporate earnings, also concerns about inflation and rising interest rates. We're going to have much more on the Federal Reserve decision on interest rates coming up next.

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