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CNN Reports, U.S. and Allies Discussing Sending Troops to NATO's Eastern Flank Before Imminent Russian Invasion of Ukraine; DOJ Reviewing Fake 2020 Elector Certificates Declaring Trump Won; New York Times Reports, Research Hints Four Factors that May Increase Chance of Long COVID. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired January 26, 2022 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN NEWSROOM: Good morning, everyone. I'm Bianna Golodryga.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

The breaking news this hour, CNN has learned that the U.S. and several western allies are now discussing deploying more troops to Europe's eastern flank before a potential Russian invasion of Ukraine. These deployments totaling around a thousand personnel, each would be a show of support in the face of Moscow's ongoing aggression against Ukraine, would be similar to the forward battle groups already stationed in countries such as the Baltic States and Poland.

Let's get right to CNN's Natasha Bertrand who worked on this story with me. The key difference here, Natasha, seems to be that the administration is hearing and responding to criticism that some of these military support moves should take place before additional Russian aggression as opposed to afterwards, and they're focusing this attention on the eastern flank of NATO.

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's right, Jim. So, there have been a number of critics who have asked why the Biden administration has not taken more action prior to a Russian incursion, further Russian incursion, I should say, of Ukraine to deter that potential renewed aggression. And so one of the things they are now considering is deploying additional forces to that kind of southeastern flank of NATO, along with some of the U.S.'s allies, including the United Kingdom.

And that would be an attempt to shore up support for those NATO allies who are feeling very anxious about this Russian aggression and who really want that additional support from the U.S. and other allies as they face a possible renewed Russian invasion of Ukraine.

What we're learning is that the Biden administration is thinking about a thousand personnel, each that would be deployed to these eastern flank NATO countries, and it would really be a show of support as they have asked the United States repeatedly, these countries, for additional forces to be stationed there in the face of this Russian aggression.

Now, the countries that might be willing to accept these forces include Hungary, and there would be an attempt to shore up that kind of southeastern flank of NATO. But, again, this is all kind of in the preliminary discussion phase and no decisions have been made, but the Biden administration has said repeatedly that they are not taking off the table the possibility of deploying these forces before any kind of Russian aggression.

The fear, obviously, that Russia will attempt to weaponize any further movement of U.S. forces further to its doorstep, saying that that just proves its case, what it's been saying that NATO is acting aggressively and that is why it has had to move Russian forces so close to the Ukrainian border, Jim.

SCIUTTO: And, Bianna, one thing you and I have talked about a lot on the air, right, is that you have something of a difference in terms of urgency, and, Natasha, we've discussed this too, among NATO allies. Those in the east, closer to Russia, they're more nervous about this, right? And these appear to be the ones that the U.S. and its partners want to shore up here.

GOLODRYGA: Right. And it's not just Ukraine, we should note, that it is pushing for a policy like this. Many former top government and military officials in the U.S. have been advocating for something as well, some on this very program with us. Natasha Bertrand, Jim, obviously, very good reporting, new reporting on your end.

Also new this morning, the Kremlin announcing that it has sent a number of their Su-35 fighter jets to Belarus just over 80 miles from the Ukrainian border. This is video you're seeing posted by Russia just moments ago showing the jets taking off from an undisclosed airfield in Russia. And we should note that Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko has publicly welcomed and lauded these joint operations.

Let's get to CNN Senior International Correspondent Matthew Chance live in Kyiv. Matthew, everything we're seeing, it does not point to de-escalation. What is the latest there on the ground?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, in fact, we're still seeing those continuing buildup of forces, this time, you're right to point out, Russian forces along with Belarusian forces, to Belarus for those joint exercises that have been planned for some weeks but are now actually starting to build up power, forces to make them happen.

And, of course, the big concern here in Ukraine is that the southern border of Belarus is the northern border of Ukraine. And so there is concerned that if there is any sort of multi-pronged invasion by Russian forces and its allies into Ukraine, then, obviously, that opens up another front from the north and severely complicates the military response from the Ukrainians.

[10:05:03] In terms of what the situation is from the Ukrainian intelligence point of view, they've been pushing back, playing then slightly the impending nature of the Russian threat, saying that they don't believe the threat is imminent, they think it's dangerous. They say they've been looking at satellite images that are showing the disposition of Russian forces, and they're saying they're not quite ready, as their intelligence assessments to come into Ukraine. And if an order is given for an invasion, it will still take about a week or two weeks for that to happen.

In terms of the U.S. deployment and the NATO deployment of additional forces to Eastern Europe, the Ukrainians have been very welcoming of that, but they've said at the same time, our concern is that that's fine that NATO is doubling down on its commitment to security of its Eastern European allies, but we don't want Ukraine to be the no-man's land between NATO and Russia, but that's exactly, of course, what the risk is. But, in general, the idea of sort of front footing (ph) the response, so putting the forces in first, of taking action before any Russian invasion is something the Ukrainians have really been pushing for. They want an upsurge in military assistance here in Ukraine before there is a Russian invasion, and the imposition of sanctions, of course, on Russia before there is any kind of Russian move into the country again.

SCIUTTO: Yes. You've heard some of that from both Democratic and Republican lawmakers here in the U.S. as well, that view. Matthew Chance there in Kyiv, thanks so much.

Joining us now to discuss this, Jill Daugherty, she is Adjunct Professor at Georgetown University's Walsh School of Foreign Service. She is also the former CNN Moscow Bureau Chief.

Jill, first, perhaps your reaction to this move under discussion between the U.S. and a small number of allies to send troops to Eastern Europe first, right, rather than wait for new Russian military movements. What do you think is the motivation behind that and what do you think the reaction will be?

JILL DAUGHERTY, ADJUNCT PROFESSOR, WALSH SCHOOL OF FOREIGN SERVICE AT GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: Well, the United States is trying to respond to the concern among those countries that are really bordering their former republic, some of them, of the Soviet Union. And, of course, they're trying to really react to that concern, but at the same time not escalate. And that's a real problem here, that balance between taking preemptive action, which could escalate the situation. We've already seen Russia responding to things like that. And so it can escalate and escalate, and that's one of the problems.

GOLODRYGA: Jill, you and I both closely follow Russian media, specifically Russian state media, and how they have been portraying this crisis over the past year. And there has really been a ratcheting up on a number of evening news programs about the aggressor not being, obviously, the Kremlin, but being Ukraine and the west. And that has proven to be somewhat of a success for Vladimir Putin in the propaganda narrative that is playing out for a large part of the country, which if there is inevitable war, seems to -- according to even independent polling, seems to side with Russia as being the aggrieved party. How successful has that been and how much leeway does that give Vladimir Putin for perhaps another invasion?

DAUGHERTY: Bianna, I think that's really important point and we do watch the Russian media. Today, one of the big messages coming out of the Russian media that I was watching very carefully is this -- the danger from what they're calling the Kyiv regime to the breakaway regions in the eastern part of Ukraine. As we know, there are two regions, and they are -- essentially, they're still officially part of Ukraine, but they are -- definitely, they want to break away. And right now you have, in the Russian parliament, discussion, should we recognize them as independent entities?

So, I think it's very important to keep our eye on that too. There are a lot of balls to keep our eyes on, but I think this constant saying that Kyiv, the Kyiv regime, is presenting a threat moving in more and more forces, getting closer and closer to attacking, and, in fact, taking some action against those two regions is very, very important. Why? Because, again, it could be a pretext for Russia's taking action. In other words, our fellow Russians, because most of them are Russian- speaking, our fellow Russians are under attack, we have to go in and protect them.

SCIUTTO: Jill, one question, a number of Russian experts have noted is in terms of the way Russia is preparing the domestic population for the possibility of military action. To-date, signs that they have not yet prepared them for a large number of casualties there, which may result from a sustained occupation and response from Ukrainian forces backed by the west.

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Do you see that as indicative here that that preparation hasn't come might indicate Russia not ready to act or not?

DAUGHERTY: I think it's something different, Jim. I think what they're saying to the Russian people is, and you look at some polling from Russians, about half the country of Russia doesn't believe that there will be a war. And there's another percentage, I think it's 15 percent, that doesn't believe there ever will be a war between Russia and Ukraine, but there is high concern over war between NATO and Russia.

What the Kremlin is saying is, we don't want war. We are not going to attack, but, again, what I was mentioning about today on Russian T.V., if our Russian -- of the people who report in the Russian world are attacked, we may have to take action. In other words, the message is we don't want to do it, but we may be forced to do it.

And I think that's where you get the Russians thinking, while there probably won't be a war, but there could be. So, it's complicated. But I think it's pretty clear in the Russian people's minds, we don't want war, but we have to be prepared that there could be.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, especially when Russian officials and those participating in these negotiations continuously say that if there's any sort of threat against their citizens, right, in these disputed regions, then they will be forced to act. Clearly a lot of Russians reading into that as well.

Jill Daugherty, thank you so much for your expertise.

Well, still to come, a CNN exclusive, the Justice Department confirming it's investigating fake electoral certificates that falsely declared a Donald Trump victory in 2020. We'll have the exclusive interview with the deputy attorney general, up next.

SCIUTTO: Plus, the EPA has announced new rules to fight pollution, particularly across the south. I'm going to speak one-on-one with the chief of the EPA. That's coming up.

And later, just a bizarre, disturbing story in which a woman tried to buy -- that's right, buy a child at a Walmart in Texas. She would not take no for an answer. What happened? We're going to have a live report coming up.

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SCIUTTO: This morning in a CNN exclusive, the Justice Department has confirmed it is now investigating fake Electoral College certifications that falsely declared former President Trump the winner of seven swing states he lost in 2020. It's remarkable reporting, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: It is. CNN Senior Justice Correspondent Evan Perez is following all of this. And, Evan, this is your exclusive reporting. You sat down for an interview with Deputy Attorney General Lisa Monaco. What else did she tell you?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bianna, this is the first time that the Justice Department is actually being specific about something that they are looking at, and we know in a number of these states, state prosecutors were concerned enough that they made referrals to the Justice Department because they believe, obviously, that there is some federal crime that could have occurred here, and now the Justice Department is taking a look at those referrals.

Here's the deputy attorney general talking a little bit about this.

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LISA MONACO, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: On the issue you raised in terms of fraudulent electoral certifications has been reported. We've received those referrals. Our prosecutors are looking at those. And I can't say anything more on ongoing investigations. But more broadly, look, the attorney general has been very, very clear, we are going to follow the facts and the law wherever they lead to address conduct of any kind and at any level that is part of an assault on our democracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP) PEREZ: And, of course, on any level is an important distinction there. We know that some of the former president's former closest allies, including Rudy Giuliani, were part of this effort to get these false certifications to the National Archives, and it's important thing for the Justice Department to take a look to see whether any crime occurred there.

SCIUTTO: Evan, of course, the bulk of your interview was about the Justice Department's attempt to address the massive uptick in violent crime in several cities. What exactly is the administration's plan?

PEREZ: Well, look, it's definitely top of mind for them. They are aware that the numbers do not look good. And so one of the things that we hear from the attorney general and now from Lisa Monaco, the deputy attorney general, is the amount of money that they're pushing down to the cities.

Frankly, that's where a lot of this is taking place. This is where the difference is going to be made. $139 million is being sent to fund a thousand new police officers in 180 police departments, 84,000 fugitives arrested in federal investigations, more than 10,000 firearms seized. These are big numbers. And what we heard from the deputy attorney general is that the Justice Department is going to do even more of that, they're asking for more money to push down into the states.

And, look, you saw over the weekend what happened in New York with two officers being killed in that incident in Harlem. That's the kind of thing that they know has to be addressed because we know that that's a political liability for this administration.

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Jim and Bianna?

GOLODRYGA: Yes. And she really doubled down on saying that defunding the police or any policies like that would do a lot of harm as well. Evan Perez, thank you.

Well, should people who refuse to get the COVID vaccine be denied organ transplants? The story of an unvaccinated father who needs a heart transplant is sparking that debate. We'll discuss, up next.

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SCIUTTO: We learn a lot about COVID every day. A new study reveals what may make some people more prone long-term COVID symptoms. The New York Times looked at the study from the journal, Cell. They found these factors may raise the chances of long COVID. They are the level of coronavirus RNA in the blood early and the infection and the presence of certain auto antibodies.

GOLODRYGA: Also on the list, the reactivation of Epstein-Barr virus, which is a virus that infects most people but usually becomes dormant and having type 2 diabetes.

Here to discuss is former Baltimore Health Commissioner and CNN Medical Analyst Dr. Leana Wen. Dr. Wen, always great to see you.

So, with this study and this new information, what can doctors use to help them treat some of their patients who may present with some of these factors?

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: I think we're still learning so much, Bianna, about long-haul COVID. We don't quite know the exact incidence of this, how common it is, but it is something that we need to be on the lookout for, not so much at identifying individuals who are at higher risk, because a lot of people have type 2 diabetes, as an example, but it's more to be on the lookout for these symptoms should someone come in, for example, with overwhelming fatigue or shortness of breath or other symptoms that linger after their COVID infection.

SCIUTTO: Dr. Wen, okay, big picture now. Looking at where the omicron surge and where we are, and a lot of good indicators in parts of the country that got it first, New York area, Washington, D.C. area, that it did go up quickly but it has coming down relatively quickly too, but also crucially that the hospital rate from omicron appears to be lower than prior surges. I wonder, as folks are watching right now, should they take some comfort in this, that they're going to see some relief in the coming weeks?

WEN: If things go the way that they currently are, I do think that we are in for a much better spring and hopefully summer ahead, although it really depends on the part of the country. There are some parts of the country, as you mentioned, that are already seeing a very sharp decline in COVID cases. But there are other parts that have yet to be really hit hard by the full brunt of COVID, and where there are hospitals that are still really overwhelmed.

And so I think we need to start looking at COVID the way we look at a weather forecast. We don't look at the weather forecast for the whole country, we look at the weather in our particular region. And if your region looks like it still is on the upswing when it comes to COVID cases, I would still urge a lot of caution, including for the time being, wearing masks while in indoor crowded settings.

GOLODRYGA: Dr. Wen, let me get you to weigh in, if you will, on this controversial story out of Boston. A 31-year-old man was in need for a heart transplant was scheduled to receive one, and until it became clear that he had not been vaccinated. And now, the hospital, Brigham and Women's Hospital, says that he is no longer eligible because COVID-19 vaccination is one of the requirements that they say would make for a more successful outcome of the transplant.

His father said that this was something he was again. It was his body, his choice. And this, of course, like so many other, unfortunately, issues regarding health care in this country, it's become politicized. What do you make of this and the decision by the hospital?

WEN: Well, first of all, I did my medical training at Brigham and Women's in Boston, so I know the physicians there who are exceptional and their compassionate treatment of patients. I think it's important for us to reframe this whole conversation, because in this case, we're talking about a finite resource, an extremely limited resource, which is the availability of organs. We're not talking about denying unvaccinated people the medical care that they need but rather what we're talking about is that there is a very limited supply of something, which is organs. And the general procedure has always been to identify those individuals who have the highest risk of success once they receive that organ.

We know that after somebody gets an organ transplant, they have to be on high-dose immunosuppressants to prevent organ rejection. Those same immunosuppressants make it such that if you have COVID, you have very severe outcomes. And we know that people who are unvaccinated are more likely to have sever outcomes. And so it's not denying medical treatment because they're unvaccinated, it's saying that if you're unvaccinated, you are less likely to have a successful outcome. And that's the reason why this decision is ethical and because it prioritizes overall outcomes for a limited resource.

SCIUTTO: As you say, so many people waiting on those lists, particularly for hearts. Dr. Leana Wen, thanks so much.

Coming up next, clean air, drinkable water, basic necessities that some communities in the south in the 21st century still don't have. Now, the Biden administration is attempting to address this pollution problem. I'm going to speak one-on-one with the chief of the Environmental Protection Agency.

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That's coming up.

But, first, here's a look at some other events we're watching today.

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