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Neil Young Versus Vaccine Information; More U.S. Military Aid Arrives In Ukraine; NATO Chief: Combat Troops Won't Be Deployed To Ukraine. Aired 2-3a ET

Aired January 26, 2022 - 02:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. You are watching CNN NEWSROOM and I'm Rosemary Church. Just ahead. Ukraine says it will not make concessions as Russian troops build up on its border and the U.S. warns and invasion is imminent.

Is the party over foot Boris Johnson? Scotland Yard joins the government investigation into the Prime Minister's locked down bashes.

Plus, he'll keep on rocking in the free world but maybe not on Spotify. Legendary rocker Neil Young vowing to pull the plug on vaccine misinformation.

ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Center. This is CNN NEWSROOM with Rosemary Church.

CHURCH: Good to have you with us. Well, first this hour. World leaders pushing diplomacy but preparing for a possible Russian invasion of Ukraine. The White House says that threat is imminent though acknowledges only Russian President Vladimir Putin knows what he will ultimately do. With more than 100,000 Russian troops masked near Ukraine more U.S. security systems and military equipment has arrived outside Kiev.

And one day after we learned up to 8500 U.S. troops were put on heightened alert. U.S. President Joe Biden says he couldn't move some into Eastern Europe soon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I may be moving some of those troops in the near term. This would be the largest if we were to move in. With all those words to be the largest invasion since World War II. That would change the world. (END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Moscow has accused the U.S. and NATO of escalating tensions even as Russia holds military drills and continues its build up near the Ukrainian border. Ukrainian forces have taken part in their own drills and while NATO allies are sending additional forces to Eastern Europe, the Secretary General made it clear the West won't help Ukraine fight with boots on the ground. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENS STOLTENBERG, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: NATO will not deploy NATO combat troops to Ukraine. But we need to be sure that there is no misunderstanding about our readiness, our commitment to protect and defend all allies especially in the eastern part of the alliance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Ukraine's foreign minister is welcoming the support from the U.S. and Europe saying it sends a clear message to Moscow. He sat down with CNN's Clarissa Ward for an exclusive interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The latest tranche of U.S. weapons arrives in Ukraine. On board, 79 tons of lethal aid, including nearly 300 tank armor piercing Javelin missiles. As the U.S. doubles down on its support of Ukraine. As many as 8500 U.S. troops are now on high alert to be deployed to Eastern Europe to join NATO forces. A decision Ukraine's Foreign Minister Demetrio Kuleba says he welcomes.

DEMETRIO KULEBA, UKRAINE'S FOREIGN MINISTER: I think it's a message to put him that listen, whatever you're trying to achieve, you get the opposite. If you want us to withdraw from Central Europe, to withdraw NATO infrastructure from Central Europe, our response to your escalation is reinforcing the Eastern Flank of NATO.

WARD (on camera): Some have suggested though, that this shift might actually anger Putin and escalate the crisis further. Are you concerned about that?

KULEBA: While If we learned anything since 2014 is that it's a flawed logic to handle President Putin from the perspective that let's do nothing in order not to make him angry. No, this is not how it works. Strength, resolve, deterrence. These are the three elements that work with Putin.

WARD (voice over): On the other side of the border yet another show of force from Russia's military with Iskander missile systems on display. The Russian defense ministry says the exercises are "To check the troops battle readiness." Few here have any doubt that Russia is ready to go to war. But the question remains whether that is its intention.

WARD (on camera): So do you believe there will be a military escalation here in Ukraine? KULEBA: This depends -- I cannot read President's Putin in mind.

WARD: Can anyone?

KULEBA: Frankly no, I don't think anyone can do that. We are literally in a situation where anything can happen.

WARD: How does Putin at this stage deescalate without losing face?

[02:05:07]

KULEBA: We shouldn't really care how President Putin will save his face for one simple reason because he himself, he put himself in this situation. If Russia is willing to act in good faith, there is a possibility to walk out from the negotiating room and say we made a deal.

WARD: But Kuleba warns that Ukraine will not be pushed into making concessions.

KULEBA: We will not be in a position of a country that picks up the phone. Here's the instruction of the big power and force it. No, we paid a lot, including 15,000 lives of our citizens to secure the right to decide our own future, our own destiny. And we will not allow anyone to impose any concessions on us.

WARD (voice over): With all sides dug in, the prospects for a diplomatic solution are dim. But Ukraine's leadership says the cost of failure would extend far beyond these front lines.

KULEBA: And in the United States, leadership fails here. It will be a clear message to the contestants of the United States that America is a different country now. And they can push and in the end of the push, I am afraid that it will be the people of America who will feel the repercussions of that push.

WARD (on camera): The minister went on to emphasize that Ukraine has already made diplomatic concessions to Russia in the past and that if anyone gets on a plane and comes to Kiev, demanding that Ukraine make more concessions, well, he says that he would simply call the protocol officer and have them escorted back to the airport. Clarissa Ward, CNN, Kiev.

CHURCH: The E.U.'s top diplomat says Europe is now facing the most dangerous moment of the post Cold War period, saying Tuesday that the crisis with Russia extends well beyond Ukraine's borders. The comments came the same day France and Germany's leaders met to discuss the unfolding crisis and stress their ongoing support for Ukraine. French President Emmanuel Macron also said he would seek clarification on Russia's intentions during a phone call with Putin on Friday. And he shared this warning for Russia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translator): We are preparing in parallel, a common reaction and response in case of aggression. And as it has been said, if there is an aggression, there will be a response and the cost will be very high.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: And for more, let's bring in CNN's Melissa Bell. She joins us live from Paris. Good to see you, Melissa. So, as tensions rise on Ukraine's borders with Russia and Belarus, the stakes are particularly high for European nations, as they double down on these diplomatic efforts. What is the latest on this?

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. As Josep Borrell said in that speech last night, it isn't just about Ukraine, it is the very security of Europe that is being threatened. And of course, it is, Rosemary, not just the security, but it's unity. So you're quite right. There is that part of Europe led mostly by Olaf Scholz, the German chancellor and the French President, that is really focusing on what hopes there may still be.

However, slim for diplomacy, rather than a brute force. Now, we're going to see a lot of that today here in Paris, there is -- there will be talks from midday being held at the Elysee Palace, the Normandy Format. So that involves Russia, Ukraine, France, and Germany. It is a diplomatic level talks, there will be no leaders involved in these. But it is an important channel and important format for Europeans to speak directly to Russia and to keep that line of communication open.

Then there is that phone call, as you mentioned, that Emmanuel Macron will have for the Russian president, we've heard both Elysee sources and Kremlin sources speak of that, with some hope that the dialogue might lead to some kind of understanding or the beginning at least of some kind of progress along the diplomatic channel. But of course, for Europeans who see themselves and have historically seen themselves divided by what approach to adopt towards Russia, these last few weeks have proven particularly painful.

Now all have gotten into lockstep with the United States and his termination to be tough, but deep down, Germany and France are very keen to get dialogue back on the road and the diplomatic option open once again, Rosemary.

CHURCH: Yes. Melissa Bell joining us live from Paris. Many thanks.

Samuel Charap is a senior political scientist for the RAND Corporation. He joins me now from Washington. Great to have you with us.

SAMUEL CHARAP, SENIOR POLITICAL SCIENTIST RAND CORPORATION: Thanks for having me.

CHURCH: So the White House says a Russian invasion of Ukraine is imminent, Ukraine disagrees calling it dangerous but not imminent. So who's right? So, what's really going on here?

[02:10:09]

CHARAP: Well, I have to imagine that the intelligence capabilities of the U.S. government far outstrip those of the Ukrainian government, even though they're geographically located in a lot closer. The U.S. just has better access to signals intelligence and satellite imagery. And the extent to which they can share that too with the Government of Ukraine, I think has increased, but ultimately, the U.S. government is just going to have a whole lot more situational awareness of that what's going on even on Ukraine's own borders.

There is also an extent to which the Ukrainian government has a motivation to keep calm at home to avoid panic, to avoid exacerbating the economic impact of the crisis already. So, I think they -- it seems like President Zelensky and his government have taken the tact of trying to deliberately downplay the threat so as to avoid domestic turmoil.

CHURCH: Right. And the U.S. and NATO allies are sending weapons to Ukraine. And 8500 U.S. troops are on high alert to be deployed to Eastern Europe, but not to Ukraine itself. But you wrote recently that this military assistance is not an effective way to resolve this crisis. So what is?

CHARAP: Well, I think we were referring specifically to the military assistance to the Ukrainian government, not that it's not morally justified, given the challenge that Ukraine faces or even that in some symbolic way, it might be important, but that really is just not going to affect Russia calculus, or affect the course of potential conflict, or meaningfully complicate, you know, the Russian military, in terms of executing its plans.

So, I think it might be something that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep doing it, it just means that it's not going to be the thing that changes the course of this crisis. I mean, I see two broadly speaking ways that this crisis could play out. You could end up in this potential war that we're everyone is afraid of or there's going to be a diplomatic settlement in which Russia gets some of what it wants.

CHURCH: Right. And, of course, President Biden said he made it clear to President Putin that an invasion of Ukraine would bring severe consequences, including sanctions, and he's also considering sanctions directed specifically at Putin. But is any of this enough of a deterrent for the Russian president?

CHARAP: Well, I think it's important to underscore just how important Ukraine is to the Russian leadership, Putin particularly but not only they've been willing to absorb tremendous costs economically since 2014, to pursue their objectives in Ukraine. So, I don't think this is a sort of economic rational calculus that the Russians are making here. It's really about national security imperatives which sort of seem to Trump economic interests when it comes to decisions about war and peace.

So I do think it's important that the U.S. lay out markers, like the sanctions threats that the button administration is laid out. But again, we should be realistic. And, you know, I don't think this is going to surprise Putin that he was going to be faced with significant economic sanctions if he pursues this war. I just have to assume that he's sort of priced that in to the, you know, to his decision making. CHURCH: Right. And you mentioned diplomacy right now, of course, Ukraine is nearly surrounded by Russian troops messing out its border. So where do those diplomatic efforts stand right now and what solutions remain? Because we know President Putin won't want to be seen to be backing down with this.

CHARAP: That's right. You know, I think the administration is really doing its best to try to get consensus among European allies which have lots of different interests involved here. Some such as, you know, Poland and other eastern allies in Europe are much more hard line. And then you have the Germans and the Italians and the French, who are much more interested in sort of dialogue and diplomacy, and trying to get a consensus there.

It's very difficult and time consuming. But really, you know, the U.S. is sort of being asked to often speak for all of its allies in this context, because Russia wants to talk to the U.S. directly. And of course, getting the Ukrainians on board. So this is all quite time consuming, and that's to say nothing of the difficulty of finding common ground with Russia. But we have seen that apparently, there's going to be a written reply to the Russian proposals this week.

[02:15:00]

CHARAP: Frankly I don't expect a whole lot more to come of that track just because -- well, two issues. It's unclear to me whether the Russian proposal was really the basis for it a diplomatic compromise. It was so sort of outlandishly maximalist. And the other reason that, you know, Secretary Blinken's counterpart of Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov is unlikely to be in a position to affect the sort of military moves being made on the ground.

I have a feeling that he's not in the room when those decisions are being made. So if this gets fixed through negotiation is very likely to be done at the highest levels. That is with President Biden to President Putin.

CHURCH: All right. We'll watch and see what happens with all of that. Samuel Charap, thank you so much for talking with us.

CHARAP: Thanks for having me.

CHURCH: Well, the coming day could be make or break for British Prime Minister Boris Johnson and his battle to stay in power. We are awaiting the results of an inquiry into whether Downing Street violated COVID restrictions by throwing parties while the rest of the country was under strict lockdown. A cabinet minister tells CNN that the Prime Minister's Office is prepared for the report to be released on Wednesday.

But it's not clear of a new investigation by the London Metropolitan Police could cause a delay. What is clear Boris Johnson is fighting for his political life.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I welcome the Met's decision to

conduct its own investigation because I believe this will help to give the public the clarity it needs and help to draw a line under matters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: CNNs' Salma Abdelaziz is with us now from London. Good to see you, Salma. So the police are now involved doing their own investigation as we awaited this internal inquiry that could perhaps determine Boris Johnson's future. What is the latest on all of this?

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN REPORTER: Well, this is a very serious escalation of party gate, Rosemary. For weeks now critics of Prime Minister Boris Johnson, members of the public who have been outraged have been asking when will the police get involved? That moment has clearly happened and it's happened because that inquiry you mentioned, the one led by senior civil servants Sue Gray, that inquiry throughout the course of the last few weeks as they as they've been looking into these allegations of multiple parties across multiple lockdowns inside 10 Downing Street just behind me here Gray was sharing that information with the Metropolitan Police.

The police now saying that some of those events, a few of those events have reached the required threshold for investigators to look at them as potential criminal offenses. Because, Rosemary, what's important to remember here is in this country rules were not just followed, they were enforced. Thousands of fines were handed out. Police were on the streets. Spot fines were issued as high as 10,000 pounds.

What I'm saying here is potentially if COVID breaches are found to have happened right behind me here, you could look at top staff 10 Downing Street stuff getting fines. Now, of course, the police investigation only launched just yesterday. So we expect that will take some time, of course, days and weeks. But in terms of the Gray inquiry that could be published as early as today.

And what's important to remember here is that Gray is again a senior civil servant. She does not have the right as a police person would to say that the Prime Minister or that his staffers broke COVID rules, that they committed a criminal offense. But what Gray's report can do is it can provide a timeline. It can provide a detailed blow by blow of what happened behind me here and how much the Prime Minister knew.

And it's that information that's going to be crucial for his own party, the Conservative Party to make a decision they are making right now, Rosemary. Which is do they keep Prime Minister Boris Johnson? Do they continue to support him? Or does the party take those steps to push him out, Rosemary?

CHURCH: Yes. A lot of important questions there. Salma Abdelaziz joining us live from London, many thanks.

All right. I want to bring in Richard Johnson now who's a lecturer in U.S. politics at Queen Mary University of London, thank you so much for joining us.

RICHARD JOHNSON, LECTURER IN U.S. POLITICS, QUEEN MARY UNIVERSITY OF LONDON: Thank you.

CHURCH: So, Prime Minister Johnson's parties at 10 Downing Street are now under police investigation due to potential breaches of COVID-19 regulations that of course were in force at the time. So how bad could this be for the Prime Minister considering this is potentially criminal?

JOHNSON: Hey, Rosemary, I was on this program for some years about the process for removing the president of the United States. Now, here we're having a discussion about removal of British Prime Minister. Here's how the processes are fundamentally similar. In both instances, the fate of the President and the Prime Minister lies with the majority of their legislators. So for Donald Trump, if he had majority support of Republicans in the Senate he was safe.

[02:20:01]

JOHNSON: If Boris Johnson can continue to maintain support from at least half of his Conservative M.P.s in the house, he's safe. The process of removing him is through a vote of no confidence in his leadership. That takes 15 percent, one-five of Conservative M.P.s to get to that process. If I were Boris Johnson, I would have wanted that process to begin yesterday. Why? Because if more bad news is coming, that report has lots of bad things in it, it's not going to look good, that I would have wanted that vote to take place earlier.

Why? Because if the British Prime Minister survives that vote of no confidence, then he has 12 months of freedom. They cannot call another vote of no confidence in him for 12 months. This bind for time strategy, I don't understand why the Prime Minister doing it unless he think somehow he's going to be vindicated. But this latest news about Sue Gray's report being referred on to Scotland Yard is not very promising in that respect.

CHURCH: Right. And of course, as you point out, we are waiting for the release of the findings into that inquiry into the series of parties. Of course, we don't know if that's going to be delayed as a result of the police now investigating this, but lawmakers say they will make a decision on Boris Johnson's future once they see the findings of that report, but it isn't independent. So, what is its true value and reliability when you consider that?

JOHNSON: A lot of it depends on the political ramifications of this. Note, the Conservative Party now is polling at very historic lows for the Conservative Party. This is making Conservative M.P.s jittery. Boris Johnson won a very substantial majority in 2019. In places where the Conservatives don't normally win seats. Those M.P.s now must feel very vulnerable. So in some ways, the effect of the content, of the report is what it means for the mood among Conservative M.P.s.

Do they feel that Boris Johnson has turned from an electoral asset to an electoral liability? And that report plus the maneuvering of the Labour leader Keir Starmer are all building to a crescendo where that vote of no confidence will take place. I predict in the Prime Minister the question is, can he keep half of his members onside? CHURCH: Yes. I mean, that is a big question because on top of all of this, Boris Johnson is sinking in the polls. The British public go furious about reports of boozy parties at Downing Street while everyone else suffered under the hardship of lockdowns. The next election of course, isn't until 2024. So, would the Tories wait and hope that voters forget because people do forget? Or would they force him out do you think?

I mean, it's difficult to predict this, but you probably have an insight all of this. What's the sense?

JOHNSON: In the British system, an early election could happen. But the Conservatives could wait it out. I would -- I would say the conservatives do not want an election now or anytime soon. This at the moment reminds me in some ways of the expensive scandal of 2008, 2009. In both of those instances, the infractions themselves were relatively minor in the grand scheme of political scandals.

But there was a sense that there was one rule for the elected and there was another rule that everyone else followed. And I think that British public don't like hypocrisy. They don't like people who were chanting the rules, who are living it up on the expense of others. And I think that this, you know, the series of revelations that have come out, not least, the one about the parties in Downing Street on the eve of Prince Philip's funeral have struck a chord with the British public.

And I think that it is now getting very serious for the Prime Minister. He can still survive because it comes down to his own M.P.s to keep them in for now. But I would say that day by day, things are looking bleaker and bleaker for Boris Johnson.

CHURCH: Yes. Comes down to trust, doesn't it? And these leaks keep continuing. Richard Johnson, many thanks for joining us. Appreciate your analysis.

Well, still to come. As the Winter Games draw near China is facing the ultimate test of its zero-COVID policy. What the country is doing to contain the outbreaks. That's next.

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[02:26:52]

CHURCH: Well, traveling around Europe for fully-vaccinated residents is about to get a whole lot easier. From next Tuesday the E.U. will recommend an end to requirements for testing or quarantine measures for those vaccinated residents when entering member states. Restrictions will also be eased for those who have recently tested negative or recovered from COVID-19. These are some countries are still seeing infections climb.

Germany just reported 164,000 new cases in the last 24 hours a new record. And on Tuesday, France reported a record of more than 500,000 daily cases. Meanwhile, Pfizer and BioNTech have begun a clinical trial and manufacturing of a vaccine specific to the Omicon variant. The trial will study it as both a primary series and a booster dose.

Well, China is counting down to the Winter Olympics next week amid a rise in new COVID cases. The Beijing Olympics committee confirmed 13 new infections Wednesday tied to the games despite tight COVID countermeasures. So far, 42 people have tested positive inside the closed loop. A system designed to keep athletes safe. And CNNs Kristie Lu Stout joins us now live from Hong Kong with more on all of this.

Good to see you, Kristie. So just days away from the start of the Beijing Winter Olympics and China's struggling to contain these new outbreaks, both inside and outside the Olympic bubble. What's the latest on all of this?

KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. As we've been reporting earlier today, Beijing local health authorities announced that there were 14 additional new locally transmitted cases of COVID 19. That's outside the bubble in Beijing. We also heard from the Beijing Olympic Committee reporting 13 new COVID-19 cases inside the bubble. Nine were detected at the border.

Four men should go inside the closed loop system. A total of 42 cases have been detected inside the Beijing Olympic bubble despite all the precautions that are in place. You know, for example, you have those designated Olympic lanes for vehicles, that's been up and running since Friday. The entire closed loop system that's been up and running. That covers all stadiums, venues, accommodations that the athletes and the participants will be using throughout the weeks of the Winter Olympic Games.

And also just the fact to enter this system. You have to test negative twice for COVID-19 before even getting a chance to fly into Beijing. And yet COVID-19 has breached the bubble. Experts say that this underscores the near impossibility of stopping the virus especially the Omicron variant and it's highly infectious nature. Earlier, I spoke to Dr. Jin Dong-Yan who is a noted neurologist based here in Hong Kong at the University of Hong Kong.

And he said, look, if Beijing wants to go ahead with the successful Olympic Games, they should follow the playbook of Tokyo and not rely so much on a zero-COVID strategy. I want you to listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[02:30:00]

DR. JIN DONG-YAN, VIROLOGIST, THE UNIVERSITY OF HONG KONG: Even if they have sporadic cases in China, this Winter Olympic could still be very successful. Otherwise, if they want to have zero-COVID, that would be very challenging.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STOUT: The pandemic precautions in and around the Beijing Olympic bubble are far more strict than the measures that we saw in place in Tokyo during the Summer Olympic gains. China. But is showing no indication that it's giving up on zero-COVID. Rosemary. CHURCH: Yes. Kristie Lu Stout joining us live from Hong Kong. Many thanks.

Ice and snow have crippled the Greek Capital. Now, Athens is struggling to reopen as residents blame the government for being unprepared. We'll have the latest on this severe winter weather. Back in just a moment.

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Welcome back everyone. Well, rare heavy snowfall has hit parts of Turkey and Greece. It causes power outages force businesses to close and stranded thousands of drivers. CNN's Arwa Damon reports from a snowed in spot in Istanbul.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): Istanbul's famous landmarks were beautifully blanketed in snow, as a winter storm hit parts of Turkey. It's a pretty sight to behold for the city's 16 million people but a nightmare for travelers. The heavy snow clogged roads leaving some 4,600 motorists stranded across Turkey. While buses and ferries were also delayed. Private vehicles were banned from Istanbul's streets as cleanup began.

Snowfall began late last week, but has significant increased in recent days. At the airport, flights were suspended for a second day, Tuesday. Turkish Airlines cancelled all flights from the airport which temporarily closed operations. And workers plowed the snow-covered tarmac. While inside, passengers try to make themselves comfortable wherever they could. Some were so upset they staged a protest chanting. We need a hotel. But the angry travelers appeared to have calmed down after airport staff gave passengers food and sleeping pods. Airport workers try to assess the damage after the heavy snow caused the roof of a cargo warehouse to collapse.

In Greece, the winter snow dumped eight centimeters of snow on Athens. A rare occurrence for the Capital. Knocking out power to much of the city as the blizzard conditions caused chaos on the roadways. Rescue crews, including the army, help dig out to drivers stuck in their car overnight. Many were given food and water as the temperatures fell.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We were all trying to move our cars forward inch by inch, but we couldn't. Then I got stuck here last night, at least I think, I've lost track of time.

[02:35:00]

We manage to go further 50 meters and that's it. I've been right here since last night.

DAMON (voiceover): Some did try to make the most of the situation. Like this woman who used skis to get around. Monday's storm also triggered a rare snownado or snowy funnel cloud across Skopelos Island after a waterspout moved on shore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DAMON (on camera): Things have been quite messy across Greece and Turkey to say the least over the last few days. The region is quite simply just not used to this level of snow. When it comes to Istanbul, right now, most of the main roads are open. But it's quite tricky here especially given how hilly it is to get all of those side streets safely open up to traffic as well. I mean, I'm basically effectively snowed in. And to just give you an idea of how rare this is, Istanbul has not seen this level of snowfall since about 1986.

Arwa Damon, CNN, Istanbul.

CHURCH: Time for a short break. Just ahead, a legendary musician takes on Spotify's most popular podcast host over vaccine misinformation. You're watching CNN Newsroom. Back in just a moment.

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Legendary musician, Neil Young, is putting Spotify on notice. Saying he's fed up with vaccine misinformation. And he's taking aim directly at the platform's most popular podcast host Joe Rogan. An earlier post on Young's website, accuse Spotify of fake and potentially deadly misinformation about vaccines. Rogan has repeatedly made false and inaccurate claims on his podcast. And according to Rolling Stone and other outlets, Young reportedly told his manager, I want you to let Spotify know immediately today that I want all my music off their platform. They can have Joe Rogan or Neil Young. Not Both.

Well, joining me now from Los Angeles. The man behind the "Lefsetz letter," music writer Bob Lefsetz. Good to have you with us.

BOB LEFSETZ, MUSIC WRITE, THE LEFSETZ LETTER: Great to be here.

CHURCH: So, no question. The Joe Rogan has a very big audience. And his podcast regularly touts COVID misinformation. And you write that, it's funny it takes a rock star to shine a light on this. Do you think it stands like this by the likes of Neil Young? Does that make a difference? And how will Spotify likely respond to his ultimatum, do you think?

LEFSETZ: Well, there are a couple of things here. First, Neil posted a letter saying this on his site, which he immediately took down. So, it's unclear what his stance is at this particular moment. One artist alone does not make a difference. This has been worldwide news and that is important. But they can live without Neil Young.

[02:40:00]

But if all of all the classic rock acts, whether history of taking a stand, want their music removed, Spotify will be forced to do something. Now, Spotify, so far, is using the modern paradigm which is you don't respond. That adds gasoline to the fire. You let the story die and half a day later, a day later, people will be on to something else. So, the first thing is to get Spotify to even respond.

CHURCH: So, how likely is it that other artists would join with Neil Young and fight for this?

LEFSETZ: Well, it's a funny thing because you have all these classic rock artists, and I really don't expect the new artists to jump on the bandwagon or whatsoever at first. And the old artists are all complaining they're not making enough money on Spotify. They mostly make their money on the road. Therefore, they have very little to lose. However, if Spotify were to lose a number of these artists, they would have a lot to lose. Those listeners might go to Apple or Amazon and it's very hard to get them back. But Neil Young is not a group guy. Usually -- he's sort of iconoclastic. You need someone who is a gatherer. And, so far, that is not happening.

Now, there was a blip on the radar a couple of years ago where Spotify has started censoring, shall we say, or demoting rap songs with, we'll say, offensive lyrics. The blowback was so strong that they seized doings that. This is a public company. They have to listen to their investors. So, if this becomes amplified, they'll be forced to make a response. But the music business history is one we're -- when the label listens to the street. It's all into their detriment.

Warner Brothers got rid of Interscope, then Interscope went to Universal. Interscope became the most successful label in the business. And now, Universal has 40 percent market share, and Warner doesn't even have 20. So, Spotify is praying that this goes away.

But we need light upon what Joe Rogan is doing. Triple digit numbers of doctors weighed in last week but they don't have the footprint of a rock star. By the same token, Neil Young, 76, how much power does an aged rock star have? Really not that much.

CHURCH: All right. It will be interesting to see if some of those other artists you mentioned actually do rally and join with Neil Young. We'll watch carefully. Bob Lefsetz in Los Angeles. Many thanks.

LEFSETZ: You bet.

CHURCH: And thank you for joining us. I'm Rosemary Church. "World Sport" is coming next. Then I'll be back with more news from all around the world in about 15 minutes. You're watching CNN. Stick around.

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