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Spotify Chooses Joe Rogan Over Neil Young; Russia Tensions Rising; U.S. Economy Growing at Record Pace; Stephen Breyer Announces Retirement. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired January 27, 2022 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

STEVE VLADECK, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: We have had 115 justices so far. Only seven have been not white men.

Whatever the substantive views of the nominee is, John, having that additional diversity on the court certainly moves the court forward as an institution, even if it takes a while for us all to see it.

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: And that history will be a fabric, if you will, throughout the confirmation process ahead.

And for those of you just joining us at the top of the hour, just moments ago, President Biden appearing at the White House with Justice Stephen Breyer, Justice Breyer delivering his resignation a bit earlier today. That resignation will come once his successor is chosen and confirmed by the United States Senate.

At this event you're seeing in the Roosevelt Room, President Biden, for the most part, said he wanted to pay tribute to Justice Breyer and his remarkable service in the Army, before serving in the executive branch, then on the federal bench, and then 28 years on the Supreme Court.

That, Joe Biden, President Biden, said should be the focus today. But, before leaving the room, he did lay out this piece of what comes next. And it includes history. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have made no decision, except one. The person I will nominate will be someone of extraordinary qualifications, character, experience, and integrity, and that person will be the first black woman ever nominated to the United States Supreme Court.

It's long overdue, in my opinion. I made that commitment during the campaign for president, and I will keep that commitment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Get to our chief White House correspondent, Kaitlan Collins at the White House.

Kaitlan, the president of the United States said he didn't want to share much about what comes next. But what he did share is a historic deal.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

And it's also notable that he put a timeline on here, saying that he will -- his intention is to let everyone know who his nominee is by the end of February. And so what that is going to kick off internally at the White House is a very extensive process of vetting.

And the president has already -- he said he's already been looking at the backgrounds of some of the potential replacements. He said he is going to study this carefully. He will look at their records. He will look at past cases.

He will meet with them in person, as you typically see presidents do with potential nominees, often here at the White House, to meet with them in person, something that can really make a difference in who a president selects to put on the Supreme Court, a meeting in person to make sure, to talk about their records, to talk about what they see themselves being on the Supreme Court and on the bench, and, of course, what a moment this is.

And I think what President Biden was saying there is just how seriously he's going to take this, saying it's one of the biggest constitutional responsibilities, he believed, that is bestowed to a president, to put someone on the Supreme Court, who, of course, is there for decades, and also the president noting the history he himself has had with Justice Breyer.

And so this is going to be a big process that kicks off in this White House. This is a White House that is pretty familiar with a Supreme Court confirmation, because several of the people who work inside this White House had been involved with them intimately before. Of course, President Biden himself has the unusual experience as well of serving as the Senate Judiciary chairman, something he cited there at the beginning, talking about presiding over Justice Breyer's hearing.

And so that is going to be the process now. And the question, of course, of who he is going to pick. This short list that we have seen, we know it can grow potentially. And, of course, all eyes will be looking to see not just the confirmation process and how quickly it happens, as Manu was talking about, but, first and foremost, who the pick is going to be.

KING: Who the pick is going to be, that is the president's challenge.

Abby Phillip, and as, we close the conversation, I'm in sort of a tug of war with myself. We're on a program called INSIDE POLITICS. You anchor "INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY." You could focus on this and the dramatic impact it could have on the politics of a midterm election year. In some ways, that feels like, whoa, save that one for tomorrow. What about just the history here? As the president said, it's long overdue, in his opinion, to put a black woman -- Steve Vladeck went through the numbers just a few moments ago.

To put a black woman on the Supreme Court of the United States is a huge historic deal, politics aside, and yet you can't ignore the politics.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, look, we don't know what the impact is going to be on the midterms.

But, as we have talked about so many times, this is a president who was elected largely because black voters rescued him in a Democratic primary where he was basically believed to be toast in South Carolina. That is why he is sitting in the White House today.

And so to make this promise and to keep it is critically important at a time when we're hearing more and more from voters they want to see Biden keep more of his promises.

But I will also say one more thing, John. The president said something or alluded to some things that are very important. First, there's the promise of putting a black woman on the court. But the second thing is that he promised to restore civility or promised to restore normalcy to Washington.

He was very clear that he wanted to seek the advice of bipartisan senators, Republicans and Democrats, and not just ram this thing through. The last four Supreme Court battles that we have had here in Washington have been brutal partisan affairs. And you hear Biden today seeming to signal to the American public that he's going to try the best he can to make this perhaps less so.

[13:05:03]

Now, will it be that -- will that be how it turns out? I don't know. I think you could probably argue that it won't be. But Biden also knows that he has to keep that promise too. He's been accused a lot of being very partisan recently. And I think, today, he made it very clear that he wants to reach across the aisle, even on this issue of the Supreme Court, which is incredibly partisan in this era.

KING: That's a fascinating point, an interesting point, as we begin this next chapter, to keep in mind.

We will watch as the process plays out, not only who might impact the court, and how deep the politics get.

Abby Phillip, thank you, Manu, Joan, and Steve as well. Appreciate the hustle of all our reporters and analysts in this busy breaking news hour just behind us.

Don't go anywhere. Thanks for your time on INSIDE POLITICS today. We will see you back here this time tomorrow.

But, on this busy day, Ana Cabrera picks up our coverage right now.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. Thank you so much for joining us.

Much more news here in the NEWSROOM, including what we have been discussing, the major historic announcement at the White House today involving the Supreme Court.

We're also tracking the U.S. economy, which just grew at its fastest rate since 1984. Of course, there is still inflation and other problems for Americans. We will discuss with White House National Economic Council's Brian Deese. He's the director there.

But, first, the ball is in Putin's court. Russia now has the written responses from the U.S., from NATO, and the bottom line, no concessions, as more than 100,000 Russian troops remain at the Ukrainian border.

And just this morning, the initial response from Putin's spokesman -- quote -- "There are few reasons for optimism."

At stake, a crisis that President Biden warns could lead to the largest invasion since World War II. At the top of the hour, President Biden is due to hold a phone call with Ukraine's president.

Let's get to CNN's Nic Robertson in Moscow and CNN national security correspondent Kylie Atwood at the State Department.

Nic, first to you.

The Kremlin says it won't rush to judgment. It's going to kind of digest these letters and make an informed decision in terms of their next move. But, clearly, the U.S. is not giving Putin what he wants. So what are you hearing?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, we heard that from the Kremlin spokesman. We heard it from the foreign minister today, Sergey Lavrov, saying, on the core issue for us, whether or not Ukraine can become a member of NATO, and NATO pushing back forces to sort of 1997 lines, he said, we haven't got satisfaction.

He did say that there is good reason to believe we can have a serious conversation about some secondary issues, arms control, troop deployments, those sorts of things. He indicated that was an option. But, really, it is this moment where President Putin is going to have to decide how he can sort of manage the optics of if he's going to move forward diplomatically, do that, when he hasn't got what he -- what was originally offered.

And I don't think we're going to have to wait too long. I mean, they have indicated no answer today, but probably in the next few days, when they have worked out a new position.

President Putin making a quite a significant trip today to St. Petersburg to lay a wreath at the site of the Siege of Leningrad, which is something that's sort of seared into the collective memory of all Russians, particularly the elder generation, like President Putin, a siege during Second World War, over 900 -- or close to 900 days.

Close to 800,000 people died during those incredibly tough years. And, of course, at the time, not long after, President Putin grew up in the rubble of what was Leningrad, subsequently become St. Petersburg. That's where he grew up.

So, his sort of founding memories have come out of the ashes in many ways of the Second World War. And where we're at, at the moment is really the point where he decides, does he really want to push Russia back to where it stood, after the Second World War and what the Soviet Union achieved there in terms of land gains and influence?

And that's where his sort of -- it appears to be he's setting his targets potentially for his legacy. He has certainly said that in his writing about Ukraine. So this is really the moment of choice for him. We have said that many times, that he knew that this response like this was coming.

But we're going to hear that, I think, in the next few days, and the foreign minister here speaks tomorrow. And I think that will give us a better view of what is coming down the track.

CABRERA: Kylie, the U.S. must have known that Russia wasn't going to be psyched on their written response. So what is the U.S. preparing for?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen, the U.S. is, diplomatically speaking, right now in waiting mode, right?

They have put all their cards on the table. They have said these things repeatedly over the last few weeks. Now the Russians have it in written form. Basically, the State Department is just waiting to hear from the Russians here to see if there are things where they think they can continue working together on.

[13:10:01]

And the Russians, for their part, have said they're not going to respond today, but they would respond in short order. So that's where the diplomats are right now in terms of that diplomatic path.

But the other aspect of this -- and Secretary Blinken spoke to this yesterday -- is that the Biden administration continues to sharpen, to develop those costs that they will inflict on Russia, should they invade Ukraine.

And so that is really what they're focused on now, getting -- making sure that they are in lockstep with allies in Europe, making sure that they have China on board to inflict some of these costs. Secretary Blinken spoke with his Chinese counterpart just today on this.

And, looking forward, the German leader is going to be visiting the White House at the beginning of February. That is another opportunity to make sure that the U.S. and Germany, where there's been some daylight on this issue of Nord Stream 2, are able to sync back up together and make sure that they are sending a united signal about the costs to Russia.

And then, of course, there is the military side. The Pentagon is still working on what it would look like if those troops who have been put on high alert actually head to Europe and when they would need to do that -- Ana.

CABRERA: And, Nic, in terms of timing by Russia on any potential action, the Kremlin announced today that Putin will travel to Turkey to meet with President Erdogan. And Turkey says that will be after Putin returns from the Beijing Olympics.

Do these two Putin obligations buy more time for diplomacy?

ROBERTSON: Yes, this is an overture by President Erdogan in Turkey.

And he seems -- as a member of NATO, he seems to be sort of trying to cast himself here as a mediator between perhaps Russia and the rest of NATO, Russia and the United States.

I think the response from the Kremlin was sort of diplomatic, polite to Erdogan, who's been making noises like this for the past few weeks. The Kremlin has sort of pushed it off down the line, saying, let's think about this after the Beijing Olympics. But they have also said as well, let's look at it after this trip, when we see where we are coming out of the pandemic.

And that kind of gives the Kremlin quite a window here to say, OK, if we need to use this diplomatic overture, it's there available down the line,.

But I don't think they're ready to go for it yet. Certainly, President Erdogan needs every kind of political lever he can use at home to keep himself in power, to keep his influence international. And this, he could certainly use to his advantage. But it doesn't seem to be coming soon.

CABRERA: Nic Robertson and Kylie Atwood, thank you both.

Still ahead here in the NEWSROOM, breaking today, the U.S. economy just grew at a rate we haven't seen since 1984. Of course, it's not all rainbows and butterflies. We will discuss with the director of the White House National Economic Council, Brian Deese.

And, right now, Stormy Daniels is on the stand. And the man who is accused of stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars from her, her former lawyer, Michael Avenatti, will soon be up to cross-examine her.

Stay with us.

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[13:17:24] CABRERA: Spotify is choosing COVID misinformation darling Joe Rogan over one of the most beloved living songwriters of our time, Neil Young.

The streaming service is removing Neil Young's music after he gave them an ultimatum: Choose my songs or give COVID misinformation a platform.

CNN chief media correspondent Brian Stelter is following this for us.

Brian, Spotify is in the process of removing Neil Young's music. So it appears they have taken a side.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: That's right, because Joe Rogan, at least for now, is more profitable, is more valuable to Spotify.

This giant audio company made a big bet on Rogan's podcast, paid him tens and tens and tens of millions of dollars to come over to Spotify. And, in his program, he interviews lots of people about lots of things, but there has been this constant, consistent theme of COVID skepticism, vaccine skepticism, bringing on guests who make misstatements about vaccines.

And that has caused doctors, experts, others to be very concerned. I think Neil Young probably read this news coverage, read about this issue and decided to take a stand. The only leverage he had was his music.

But now Spotify choosing Rogan over Young. And it's a really interesting dividing line, Ana, about how much moderation platforms should do or should not do. Young might want other artists to follow him. And, today, SiriusXM, the big satellite radio company, they said they are going to have an exclusive special Neil Young channel on SiriusXM.

So you see the marketplace in some ways working this out. He's gone from Spotify, but he's on SiriusXM in a special way. Maybe that's a good free market solution. But then this issue about Rogan and misinformation still stands.

CABRERA: Right. So has Spotify actually addressed that misinformation that's happening on Joe Rogan's program?

STELTER: They have always been very -- they have always avoided talking about this, to be honest.

When we send requests for comments, when we ask for interviews, Spotify has always remained mostly mum. The position they essentially take is, we have lots of different kinds of music and lots of different kinds of podcasts for lots of different kinds of fan groups.

That's great in entertainment. Where it gets more complicated is when you're talking about a public health crisis. And that's why companies like YouTube and other big platforms have taken strong stands against disinformation, against lies. We talk about misinformation, Ana. We should really be using the word

lies, right, discredited information, complete lies. That's what some of Rogan's guests have peddled. But I think, for Spotify, they think he's too valuable to take action.

CABRERA: And yet that misinformation really can be the difference between life or death.

[13:20:00]

Brian Stelter, I really appreciate your reporting.

Let me bring in Dr. Leana Wen now. She's a CNN medical analyst and the former Baltimore health commissioner. She is also the author of "Lifelines: A Doctor's Journey in the Fight for Public Health."

Dr. Wen, first, your reaction to Spotify sticking with Rogan and his COVID misinformation.

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Yes, it's really unfortunate, Ana.

I agree with Brian that we should call out this type of misinformation for what it is, which is active disinformation and lies. And let's also talk about the consequence of this disinformation.

We have more than 2,000 Americans who are dying every day still due to this pandemic. The pandemic is not over. The danger here is not just that Joe Rogan has been peddling treatments that aren't actually treatments. It's that he is dissuading people from getting safe and effective vaccines, which are leading to preventable deaths.

Disinformation takes away people's ability to make informed choices for themselves and their families. And it's really dangerous. And then you have the newly appointed surgeon general in Florida, Dr. Joseph Ladapo, refusing to say if vaccines work against the coronavirus.

I want you to listen to this exchange at his confirmation hearing yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STATE SEN. LAUREN BOOK (D-FL): Do you believe vaccines work?

DR. JOSEPH LADAPO, FLORIDA SURGEON GENERAL: I consider vaccines in the same way that I consider other medical therapies. What we care about clinically is whether they are safe and effective.

BOOK: Do you believe that vaccines in fighting against a pandemic like COVID-19 are effective?

LADAPO: The question is a scientific one, and it's one that is answered with data.

BOOK: Just a yes or no. Do vaccines work in fighting against COVID- 19, yes or no? LADAPO: As a scientist, I am compelled to answer the scientific

question.

BOOK: Scientifically, do vaccines -- does the -- do the vaccines work against preventing COVID-19, yes or no?

LADAPO: Yes-or-no questions are not that easy to find in science.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: So he ended up saying that vaccines do provide protection against death and hospitalization, less so against infection?

But this is Florida's top health official. Should this have been a difficult question for him to answer?

WEN: No.

And that a straight yes-or-no answer. I mean, that exchange was really difficult to hear, because here is this doctor, who is well-trained, well-qualified, essentially twisting himself up in knots because he knows that he was appointed by someone who seems to be against vaccines in some ways, and doesn't want to be -- doesn't want to say something that's counter to the governor of Florida.

And that's really unfortunate. I mean, this position is clearly outside the mainstream of medicine, public health and science. We now know from hundreds of millions of people around the world that the COVID vaccines are safe and effective. They substantially reduce the risk of severe illness.

They also reduce the chance of infection and therefore transmission to others. We, as physicians, have an obligation to the community, to the patients we serve to be honest, and to answer straightforward yes-or- no questions with, yes, these vaccines are safe and effective.

CABRERA: We all need that clarity, as the laymen, right? We aren't the medical experts. We rely on people like you and people in his position to give us the information that is most important and to provide that clarity.

Meantime, former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin also made headlines this week when her defamation trial here in New York was delayed after she tested positive for COVID.

Last night however, she was spotted dining outdoors at a Manhattan restaurant. Again, she was just diagnosed with COVID.

Dr. Wen, if you're diagnosed with COVID, is it safe to go to a restaurant if you dine outside?

WEN: No, it is not.

What the CDC guidelines very clearly state is that, for the first five days after you are first diagnosed with COVID, you should be isolating. You should not be in public. Five days after that, you're able to go out in public, but only if you're wearing a well-fitting mask the entire time.

You should certainly not be dining with others. Actually, the CDC explicitly says you should not be dining with others in that second five-day period. Outdoors certainly is better than indoors. However, you're still sitting next to people. You're sitting across from people.

I just don't think it's a responsible thing to be with others when you know that you are actively infectious for COVID-19. So, please, if you are diagnosed with COVID, please stay home. Please follow isolation guidelines. Please don't spread the infection further.

CABRERA: Let's turn now to boosters. We know they increase protection against Omicron. We don't know yet how long that protection lasts.

But listen to what the chief medical officer at Moderna said here on CNN this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. PAUL BURTON, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, MODERNA: If you get vaccinated with the Moderna vaccine and then you get boosted, you get a nice good level of protection with antibodies against the original COVID virus strain and also against the Omicron strain.

[13:25:10]

But what we see, by six months, is that those levels begin to fall.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: So, he just gave that as a six-month sort of timeline here. Should people expect to need another booster in six months?

WEN: I don't think we know the answer to this yet.

We definitely know that the first two doses are not enough, that you definitely have to get a third shot. So, five months after you get Pfizer Moderna or two months after the one-dose Johnson & Johnson, you should definitely be getting a booster.

We don't know whether additional boosters are going to be needed. And that's because, even if antibody levels drop, there are other elements of our immune response, T-cells and B-cells, that may still remain robust. So I think we need to collect more data before seeing whether additional fourth boosters are needed, although, in the meantime, more than half of Americans who are eligible for boosters have not yet gotten them.

And so please get that third dose. Or, certainly, if you got the one- dose J&J vaccine, it's really time to get an additional dose of something else.

CABRERA: Dr. Leana Wen, I always appreciate you. Thank you so much for taking the time.

New evidence that the economy is on the right track. It just grew at its fastest rate since 1984. So, what does this mean for inflation?

I will ask the director of the White House National Economic Council right after this.

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