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Russia: U.S. and NATO Responses Don't Address Concerns; Delhi Keeps Schools Closed Despite Push for Reopening; China Reports COVID- 19 Cases Linked to Upcoming Games; Johnson: Lockdown Parties Report Will Be Published in Full; U.S. Racing to Recover F-35 Before China Does; Sanctions Against Russia Being Considered; Scientists Work to Develop a Universal Coronavirus Vaccine. Aired 12-12:45a ET

Aired January 28, 2022 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN VAUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: This hour, on CNN, no word yet from Vladimir Putin on the U.S.-Britain reply to his security demands. But there has been a response. Thousands of Russian combat-ready troops sent to the border with Ukraine.

[00:00:50]

Failed. China's zero-COVID policy at the Winter Olympics, heavy- handed, Draconian, and less than effective. Ask the head of the International Paralympics Committee, who just tested positive.

And one vaccine to bind them all. How soon could we have a universal COVID vaccine, effective against past, present, and future variants?

ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Center, this is CNN NEWSROOM with John Vause.

VAUSE: Great to have you with us. And we begin with a notable shift in Berlin's official position on the future of Nord Stream 2, the controversial pipeline, built to deliver natural gas directly firm on Russia to Germany.

For years, Washington wanted the project scrapped, even threatened sanctions, but Germany was unmoved. Construction finished late last year, and it's now awaiting approval from regulators.

But the project may never come online, with senior German officials, from the chancellor on down, warning if Russia invades Ukraine, then Nord Stream 2 is on the table. Possibly the biggest bargaining chip the west has right now, when it comes to financial sanctions on Moscow.

For now, there appears to be a response, of sorts, after the U.S. submitted a written reply to a list of security demands from Vladimir Putin. The Russian president has not said a word publicly. But in the past 24 hours, the Pentagon reporting more Russian combat-ready troops have moved to Ukraine's border.

As of last week, Ukrainian intelligence estimated almost 130,000 Russian troops in the region.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: We continue to see, including in the last 24 hours, more accumulation of credible combat forces, a raid by the Russians in, again, the western part of their country, and in -- and in Belarus.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: On Thursday, the U.S. and Ukrainian president spoke by phone. A conversation, which according to a Ukrainian official, did not go well. President Zelensky apparently took issue with President Biden's insistence that a Russian invasion is imminent.

According to a source, Zelensky asked Biden to tone down the language. The White House disputes the account. For the record, Ukraine's foreign minister also says there's no imminent threat of a Russian invasion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DMYTRO KULEBA, UKRAINIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: We believe, that Plan A for Russia now is to use the threat of force, to destabilize Ukraine internally, to sow panic, and to force us into concessions. A military operation is Plan B.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Moscow says President Vladimir Putin will spend some time to consider the U.S. response to his security demands. But already, two very senior Russian officials have made it clear the U.S.-Britain submission falls way short of what they want.

CNN's Nic Robertson reports now from Moscow.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: He's got it. He's read it. That's what Dmitry Peskov, President Putin's spokesman, said about the written response from the United States. The Russian president taking a little time to consider it.

Peskov saying it was going to take a little time for them to work out their position. But the foreign minister making quite clear that it was falling short of what they wanted.

Certainly, the Russians side were expecting negative answers to their key question, which is, that Ukraine should not be allowed to join NATO. But Peskov even sounding disappointed on the key issues. Nothing there, that was going to make them satisfied.

SERGEY LAVROV, RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): There is no positive reaction on the main issue in this document. The main issue is our clear position on the inadmissibility OF further expansion of NATO to the east and the deployment of strike weapons that could threaten the territory of the Russian federation. ROBERTSON: But -- and there is a tiny "but" here -- Lavrov went on to

say there is an indication that there can be a start of what he called serious conversations about secondary issues. So, it did appear that he's hinting that the diplomatic track can continue, potentially.

[00:05:04]

But not on the core issue. This would be the issues of arms control, of troop deployments, of missile site locations, all these sorts of things, that have been on Russia's plate of concerns, as well. Concerns shared by the United States and NATO.

So Lavrov indicating perhaps a track there. But that key issue is the real big stumbling block for President Putin. He's speaking with President Macron of France on Friday. Undoubtedly, the written response from NATO and the United States is going to come up in the conversation.

Undoubtedly, from what we've seen in the past. Putin will be looking for a way to try to get something different from Europe, from European leaders, than he's getting from the United States.

But at this moment, from the U.S. position, the ball, right in the Russians' court, right here in Moscow.

Nic Robertson, CNN, Moscow.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: CNN global affairs analyst and staff writer for "The New Yorker," Susan Glasser, is with us now from Washington.

Good to see you.

SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Thank you so much.

VAUSE: OK, so what the Russian foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, said the U.S. response to the Kremlin security demands left little ground for optimism. The U.S. secretary of state, though, he just seemed to brush that off. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: The response that counts is President Putin's response. And to the best of our understanding, according to the Russians, these papers are on his desk, and we'll look forward to his response.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: It may not be a direct response from Putin himself, but there has been a response, it seems, from the Russian president, which is to send more combat troops to the border region with Ukraine.

GLASSER: That's exactly right. If you're looking for de-escalation, it's not been happening, as a result of whatever we can even call this diplomatic process.

And by the way, I thought that was a very sharp and -- and somewhat non-diplomatic comment on the part of Secretary of State Tony Blinken. Essentially, essentially telling Sergey Lavrov, his counterpart, that he doesn't matter in the Russian system, which is certainly true in terms of the assessment of how Russia's decisions get made, but not usually the thing that one diplomat says to another. So I thought that was an interesting aside.

But look, this is very serious. When you see what President Biden, reportedly, told the Ukrainian leader Zelensky today, essentially, get ready, brace for impact. The United States continues to say that this potential invasion by the Russians is, quote unquote, "imminent."

VAUSE: At the same time, though, there have been sort of mixed messages coming from Russia, if you like. Sergey Lavrov, when you're talking about a little optimism.

But then, when it comes to other issues, secondary issues, he says, well, maybe there's something we can talk about. Maybe we can have a conversation with that.

And also, the fact that the U.S. response has not been leaked by Moscow and that Putin is taking his time, and it could be some time before he actually delivers a formal reply to the Americans. Is that an indication, maybe, there's something in that offer which the Russians are taking a closer look at? That they don't want others to know about, at least for now?

GLASSER: Certainly, that's a possibility. It's also a possibility that the Russians are simply taking advantage of this time to continue to move their military forces into place.

I noticed significant movement of the Russian fleet into the Black Sea, which is something they might want to do in advance of an invasion.

There's also the diplomatic timing around the fact that it's about to be the Beijing Olympics. And Vladimir Putin isn't expected to be an honored guest of Xi Jinping at those ceremonies. He may not want to anger the Chinese by distracting from the Olympics, with an attack beforehand. So, who knows?

You know, it's just -- it's not clear at the moment. But what we can say is that there's no visible signs of pulling back from the brink of war.

VAUSE: Over the past 24 hours, what appears to be a real division between how the U.S. views the Russia threat to Ukraine and how Ukraine sees the threat. Here's Ukraine's foreign minister.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KULEBA: We are not planning any offensive actions. We're committed to a diplomatic track, and we are ready to engage with Russia at different levels, in order to find a diplomatic solution to the conflict.

However, if Russia decides to fight, we will fight back. This is our country, and we will defend it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: You know, it's sort of a nuanced emphasis here, but he also said publicly that, you know, a Russian attack is not imminent. The president of Ukraine said the same thing, reportedly while speaking by phone to the U.S. President. Zelensky asked Biden to tone the language down.

How do you explain this very different assessment, which is presumably based on the same intelligence?

GLASSER: Well, it is -- it is notable, and I think it's important to point it out. I think it's also true that the political needs of the Ukrainian government might be somewhat different than those of the U.S. government at this moment.

For example, you know, there must be a real concern in Kyiv right now not to destabilize the country, not to put the government at risk. One of the things, I think, that they're very worried about in Ukraine is some kind of Russian effort to destabilize the government, to put in a new leadership that might be more favorable to Russia.

[00:10:10]

And so anything that undermined public confidence in the government, or if there was a fear that Kyiv itself is about to fall to the Russians, you know, that could lead to a panic-type situation. And I think that's probably one of the reasons you're seeing this difference.

But you know, again, you have to wonder. Why are U.S. officials, including President Biden and on down, speaking as if they're so confident, that they know that the Russian military invasion is imminent?

And it's very interesting, is it's based on what kind of intelligence they have not spelled out. And I think their pronouncements have been strikingly confident.

VAUSE: Yes. Very much so. More so than you would usually expect in a situation like this.

Susan, thank you so much for being with us. We appreciate it.

GLASSER: Thank you.

VAUSE: We have this note: the U.N. Security Council will discuss tensions between Russia and Ukraine Monday. The U.S. ambassador asked for the meeting, calling Russia's troop buildup a threat to international peace and security.

The latest now with the coronavirus pandemic, with Brazil setting a new record for daily COVID infections: almost 230,000 on Thursday, breaking the previous record, which was set a day earlier. More than 660 people died on Thursday.

Still, the health ministry is hoping that vaccinations will keep the death rate relatively low, as they've done in some European countries.

South Korea reported more than 16,000 new cases Thursday, a daily record for the fourth day in a row. The country's health agency says Omicron has become the dominant variant, making it more than 50 percent of all infections.

On Tuesday, Finland becomes the latest European country to start easing COVID restrictions. Officials say infection rates are stabilizing. There's less pressure on hospital ICUs.

Among the newly-restored liberties, restaurants will stay open three hours longer, until 9 p.m.

India's capital, Delhi, is easing COVID restrictions, as well. But not the ones that many parents have been pushing for.

CNN's Vedika Sud in New Delhi with details -- Vedika.

VEDIKA SUD, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: John, when you and I spoke yesterday, there was a crucial meeting underway by the Delhi authorities, wherein they were going to decide whether or not to lift the restrictions that they had imposed earlier in Delhi. This includes the weekend curfew, the night curfew. Restaurants will close (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

So yesterday, they decided that they will be -- they will be lifting the ban on weekend curfews. The night curfew stays in Delhi. But now, restaurants, theaters can operate at 50 percent capacity. So can bars.

But they did not say anything about reopening schools. And there was a petition, filed on Wednesday by 1,600 parents who wanted schools to reopen across Delhi.

Now, CNN has spoken to some of the petitioners, who were also parents in this case, and they have expressed disbelief, dismay, and disappointment over schools not reopening.

Now, Delhi's cases have really gone down in the last couple of days. It stands at just over 4,200 new daily cases as of Thursday evening. And this is another reason why these parents are saying, hey, the cases are going down. Why can't you reopen schools?

And part of the petition also talks about the United Nations, saying that India is one of the countries that has kept schools closed for the longest, compared to others.

In fact, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) it is the one that's kept schools closed for the longest time, ever since the outbreak of the pandemic.

Also, a petitioner who has tweeted, I will read what she said. She talks about "Zero science, zero logic, complied when it comes to children. When it comes to reopening of other measures, but not schools. She has blamed the Delhi authorities for ruining a complete generation of children.

So we're going to wait. We're going to watch and see what happens. Pressure is building.

But I should also add that there are parents who are still nervous to send their children back to school, given that India is still experiencing a third wave -- John.

VAUSE: Yes. I guess it's a mixed picture. But boy, you know, some parents are very tough. Vedika -- including you. Thanks so much for being with us, we appreciate it.

SUD: Thank you.

VAUSE: In China, more COVID-19 cases are being leaked to the Beijing Olympics just a week before the games are set to begin. We've learned now the president of the International Paralympic Committee has tested positive.

Let's bring in CNN's Will Ripley, live this hour, in Taipei. So how is that closed loop system working out?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it depends on your assessment of a successful loop. I mean, you do have thousands of arrivals, and right now the number of confirmed cases inside the Olympic bubble, it's well over 100. And there are still more cases being detected every single day.

But China's protocols that are in place -- people who are entering China are in putting their health information for 14 days before they fly in. They are tested every single day. They're staying in hotels that are barricaded from the general public in Beijing and guarded 24/7.

[00:15:08]

If somebody tests positive, they are -- someone's going to knock on their door in the middle of the night, yanked away and put in isolation until they test negative in very small rooms, reportedly around 25 square meters or so.

And then of course, they're taking transportation that is completely separate from the general public. If that transportation gets in a car wreck, people are told not to approach. They have a special police force to respond to those incidents.

And so the bubble on the inside, the steps that are in place, seems to be preventing any sort of large-scale outbreak for now. You're talking about dozens of cases detected after people already entered the bubble. And well over 100 cases, that including people who tested positive upon arrival at the airport in Beijing.

But with Omicron spreading outside the Olympic bubble, now detected in more than 11 Chinese cities, and the numbers are growing of that highly-contagious variant, despite China locking down millions of people, and sometimes with very little or no notice, being forced to stay in their homes for days or even weeks on end.

It does raises questions about how long those numbers can stay as small as they are, John.

VAUSE: Very quickly, Will, at some point will there be some kind of a cost/benefit analysis of this zero-COVID policy? Because the costs are really high. And it seems they're not getting the benefits.

RIPLEY: China is really digging in its heels on zero-COVID, even with Omicron and the scientific data that is -- seems to show that people who are vaccinated tend to have relatively mild cases of this new variant, albeit that is highly contagious.

China is essentially isolated from much of the world because of quarantine procedures in place that, for some people, could mean a month in quarantine, for some people, eight weeks, depending on what they do and where they come from.

Hong Kong, with a similar policy, is seeing a mass exodus of international business professionals, leaving that Chinese territory because the quarantine rules and the mental health toll, along with the economic toll, are still too steep.

However, inside China, the authoritarian president, Xi Jinping, enjoys widespread public support from people who are living inside China and remaining in this zero-COVID environment. Because much of the media coverage of COVID and coverage of the outside world paints a terrifying and dire picture of what it would be like if China were to open up and normalize like many other countries around the world.

VAUSE: Will, thank you. Will Ripley live for us there in Taipei with the very latest on China's Olympics and COVID.

Well, the fate of the British prime minister, Boris Johnson, now hanging in the balance, with an internal report into lockdown parties at Downing Street likely to determine if he keeps his job. So when we come back, what we know about this inquiry and why the findings have not been released. More on that in a moment.

Also ahead, one of America's most advanced stealth fighters now live on the ocean floor near China, and the U.S. determined to get it first.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAUSE: For the first time in its 200-year history, Honduras has a female president. Xiomara Castro was sworn in Thursday in a soccer stadium in the nation's capital.

[00:20:07]

She won a landslide victory with the promise of fixing systemic problems behind poverty and corruption. U.S. Vice President Kamala Harris attended the inauguration and met with President Castro, where they discussed the flow of migrants to the U.S. border.

She says the two nations can work together on that as well as bolstering Honduras's economy.

The UNFS (ph) military leader is speaking out for the first time since seizing power in a coup on Monday. He's asking for global support for the West African nation and insists that constitutional order will be restored, quote, "when the conditions are right."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. COL. PAUL-HENRI DAMIBA, BURKINA FASO'S MILITARY LEADER (through translator): I call on the international community to support our country so it can emerge from this crisis quickly and resume its march toward development.

I understand the legitimate doubts raised by this break in the normal functioning of the state, but I would like to reassure Burkina Faso will continue to respect its international commitments, particularly the respect of human rights.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: On Monday, many gathered in the streets of the capital to celebrate this change of power. Frustrations had been growing at the now former government's handling of Jihadist attacks.

Well, another day and still no sign of an internal government report into Downing Street parties held during lockdown. With a scandal threatening his political future, Boris Johnson insists he's not delaying the release of this report, adding it will be published in full. But he did not provide a timetable. Bianca Nobilo reports now on what could be holding up the inquiry's

findings.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BIANCA NOBILO, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: But why the delay? Sources in Westminster that I've spoken to speculate that it could be caution over making sure that the report doesn't prejudice the ongoing Met investigation into whether or not Downing Street parties broke COVID laws.

Or that no publication date was ever set. So really, this isn't a delay.

(voice-over): Additional question marks over the veracity of some of Boris Johnson's statement have been raised over emails from the Foreign Office that surfaced, contradicting Johnson's denial that he did not authorize the evacuation of animals from Kabul when the city fell to the Taliban. Johnson dismissed these reports.

BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: This whole thing is -- is -- is total rhubarb. I was very proud of what our armed services did without bidding. And it was an amazing thing to -- to move 15,000 people out of Kabul in the way that we did. I thought it was also, additionally, very good that we were able to

help those vets who -- who came out, as well. But I can tell you that the military --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you didn't intervene? You didn't --

JOHNSON: Absolutely not. Always -- always -- the military have always prioritized human beings. And that was quite right. And I think we should be incredibly proud of -- of what they were able to achieve.

NOBILO (on camera): Regardless of whether or not Brits or MPs think that Party-gate is painfully hypocritical or a disproportionate distraction, there is no question that the wait for the report is monopolizing politics. The next few days will be critical for the prime minister, trying to shore up support while he's fighting for his political life.

Bianca Nobilo, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: North Korean state media appears to have confirmed this week's ballistic missile test. New images purported to show the launch of two tactical-guided missiles on Thursday that allegedly hit a target island in the ocean. It's believed to be North Korea sixth missile test since the start of the year.

North Korea also published photos of Tuesday's launches, which also were a test of an upgraded long-range cruise missile system. That's according to state media.

One of the photos just released are said to be of Kim Jong-un inspecting a factory producing major weapons. It is without a date.

South of the Korean Peninsula, near the Philippines, the U.S. military scrambling to recover an F-35 stealth fighter, which crashed into the ocean on Monday. It's the most sophisticated warplane the U.S. has. The U.S. fears China may try to reach the wreckage first.

Here's CNN's Ivan Watson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

IVAN WATSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The F-35 stealth fighter jet, the world's most expensive weapons system.

On Monday, the relatively new U.S. Navy version of one of these jets crashed into the flight deck of a U.S. aircraft carrier, injuring the pilot and six sailors. The cause of the crash still under investigation.

The Navy now has the difficult task of recovering the wreckage of the F-35 from the bottom of the ocean to make sure, defense experts say, that its classified technology doesn't fall into the wrong hands.

PETER LAYTON, MILITARY AVIATION EXPERT, GRIFFITHS UNIVERSITY: The Chinese have a -- have a long history of being able to borrow something from overseas and reverse-engineer it. So that this would certainly be a gold mine as far as that goes.

WATSON (on camera): The crash occurred here in the South China Sea, a heavily-trafficked body of water that Beijing claims almost all for itself.

And this is where two American aircraft carriers are currently operating, accompanied by more than 100 warplanes and at least ten other warships, an unmistakable demonstration of U.S. naval power to both allies and rivals in Asia.

ALESSIO PATALANO, PROFESSOR OF WAR AND STRATEGY IN EAST ASIA, KING'S COLLEGE, LONDON: It is a powerful reminder that the Indo-Pacific is of central strategic importance to the Biden administration. It's about signaling to other contenders in the region, most notably China, that the United States' credibility should not be taken lightly.

WATSON (voice-over): The Chinese foreign ministry says it's not interested in the crashed plane. A spokesman urged the U.S. to contribute more to regional peace rather than flexing force at every turn.

But Chinese state media did some gloating, saying the crash exposed U.S. exhaustion at containing China.

It's not the first time the U.S. Navy has had an accident while asserting what Washington says is its right to conduct freedom of navigation operations in these contested waters.

Last October, a U.S. Navy attack submarine crashed into an undersea mountain in the South China Sea, prompting the firing of its commanding officers.

Meanwhile, the versatile F-35 warplane, developed years behind schedule and way over budget, has had its own setbacks of late. A British F-35 crashed into the Mediterranean Sea in November.

In 2019, a Japanese F-35 crashed into the Pacific Ocean, killing the pilot. The jet impacted at such high speed that salvage teams never recovered most of the aircraft.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Flying from -- from aircraft carriers is a high- risk business. And occasionally, problems will happen. While it's unfortunate, it is to be expected when you start flying hundreds of sorties.

WATSON: Experts predict it will take several weeks for the U.S. Navy to recover this expensive wreck from the bottom of the sea.

Ivan Watson, CNN, Hong Kong.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: The cost to Moscow for a Ukrainian invasion just went up a lot. When we come back, the controversial Nord Stream 2 pipeline is now on the table. But is Germany really willing to scrap it?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAUSE: Welcome back, everybody. I'm John Vause. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM.

The U.S. and Germany are bluntly warning of massive financial consequences if Russia decides to invade Ukraine.

Top German officials have stressed nothing is off the table, and now that includes a controversial Nord Stream 2 pipeline, which would bring Russian natural gas to Europe.

[00:30:01]

Germany is Russia's chief partner in the Nord Stream 2 deal, and critics fear it will give Russia dangerous leverage over Europe. Both the Biden and Trump administrations have opposed the pipeline.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NED PRICE, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: I want to be very clear about this. If Russia invades Ukraine, one way or another, Nord Stream 2 will not move forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Well, the pipeline is now complete but not yet operational.

CNN political analyst and columnist for "The Washington Post," Josh Rogin, is with us now from Washington. Good to see you.

JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Likewise.

VAUSE: If you missed Ned Price from the U.S. State Department doing the media rounds on Thursday, there's always the under secretary, Victoria Newlin, with a similar message.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VICTORIA NEWLIN, U.S. UNDER SECRETARY: If Russia invades Ukraine, one way, or another, Nord Stream 2 will not move forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: And by similar, I mean word for word, identical. Clearly, the U.S. wanted to hammer this point. And perhaps that strategy worked. I want you to listen to the German foreign minister.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNALENA BAERBOCK, GERMAN FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): In the event of new aggression, a range of responses in available, including Nord Stream 2. Yes, we want dialogue at all times. But in view of the current situation, we also need toughness. (END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: So, it seems like Berlin is now, on board with scrapping the pipeline as a potential option. And that pipeline which delivered natural gas direct from Russia to Germany. This seems like a big win for the Biden administration, and bad news for Putin. At the same time, though, it's kind of complicated.

ROGIN: Yes, well, that's exactly right. You know, what's funny about those two clips is that Victoria Newlin has long wanted to sanction the Nord Stream 2 pipeline on the grounds that it was a strategic win for Putin and a threat to Ukrainian security. But she lost that battle, internally.

And similarly, in Germany, the foreign ministers in the Green Party, they were against the pipeline for environmental reasons. But she seems to be losing that battle internally, as well.

So, you both have these split administrations, giving this very carefully worded message. One way, or another, it won't go forward. Well, what the heck are they talking about?

One way is, the Germans say no. That's the easiest way. Another is that the Americans forced it to close. And that's not exactly a sure thing either. So I think that they're being cagey, and I think they're trying to pretend that they actually have a firm idea of what's going to happen with Nord Stream 2, if, and when Putin attacks. When the fact is that those decisions really haven't been made in Washington or in Berlin.

VAUSE: So here's the question. If Germany does scrap the pipeline, if Russia invades Ukraine, and Russia stops supplying natural gas, with the loss of revenue, that will have a big impact on the Russian economy, but does not come with it without a cost of the Europeans.

ROGIN: Yes, well, that's exactly right. It's much easier to envision shutting down Nord Stream 2 while Ukrainian pipelines are still operational.

Imagine, just for a second, that Russia does invade, and the Ukrainian pipelines are shut down. Then, all of a sudden, Nord Stream is now crucial for European energy security. They're in a worse position, and Putin has even more leverage. The promises of future action, or just that. Promises. No one really knows what would happen, once the bullets start to fly.

VAUSE: Yes, that's a good point. So, one option, which is being considered, considered the option of last resort, once the bullets start flying, banning Russia from access to SWIFT, what's known as the Society for Worldwide International Financial Telecommunication -- with my stutter -- which provides the secure network to send, and receive, financial transaction information around the world. It's basically, the lifeblood of the international global trade system.

I want you to listen to the British prime minister, confirming that option is under consideration. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNSON: There's no doubt that that would be a potent weapon. I am afraid, it could really only be employed with the assistance of the United States, though we're in discussions about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: This is described as the nuclear option. And Iran knows, firsthand, what happens when you're denied access TO SWIFT, and it's devastating.

ROGIN: Right, this would be a death knell for the Russian economy. But again, listen to the way that they're talking about it. We might do it. We're considering it as an option. Maybe the U.S. is on board.

You know, the German government has been looking to its press that it's not an option any more. They don't really want o t and it is a mealymouthed mixed messaging only gives Putin, I think, more confidence that the west isn't united.

And you know, I'm old enough to remember 2014, when we had this whole conversation about cutting Russia off from SWIFT. And they did invade, and in the end, we didn't do it.

So you know, I think Putin is looking at all these threats and saying, Wow, interesting that they're sort of talking about considering maybe doing something later. But I don't think that's going to stop him from executing his plan, at this point.

VAUSE: And after the threat was first made, you know, all those years ago, Russia has been developing an alternative to SWIFT. It's called the System for Transfer of Financial Messages.

Around this time last year, Russia's news agency first reported the total number of participants in the system reached 400. At the same time, 23 foreign banks connected to the SPFS, from Armenia, Belarus, Germany, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, and Switzerland.

SWIFT connects 11,000 banks in more than 200 countries. So clearly, the Russian version has a ways to go, but would a ban, if it happens, would it, you know, accelerate the use and development, of Russia's alternative?

ROGIN: Theoretically, yes. The idea here is that this kind of economic power should be used carefully. Because if you overuse it, eventually, all countries will find work-arounds.

And you know, one of the big things that's happening is China and Russia are working on this problem together, because China is facing a lot of economic sanctions, too. Not SWIFT, but other ones. So yes, Eventually, sanctions power goes away.

But the real question is, while we have it, should we use it? And while we have it, do we have the will to use it? And I think the answer to both of those questions is maybe. And that's not very reassuring for the Ukrainians.

The Ukrainians are saying very clearly, do the sanctions now. Sanctions Nord Stream 2, bring the economic sanctions down. At least, if that doesn't stop Putin from attacking, that will start to drain his coffers earlier, rather than later.

And this whole idea that we're talking around possible threats of future possible stuff, is just ridiculous. That's the Ukrainian point of view.

VAUSE: Yes. The preemptive sanctions may be the -- a good indication that they're going to be a war with, I guess, a unified front, if they get that done. We'll see. Seems unlikely.

Joe, thanks so much. Good to see you.

ROGIN: Anytime.

VAUSE: We'll take a short break. When we get back, we'll have an update on what could be the search for the holy grail of COVID vaccines.

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VAUSE: E.U. regulators have given Pfizer the go-ahead for a COVID pill to treat high-risk patients. Paxlovid was approved after a study found significantly reduced hospitalizations, or deaths, among patients at risk of severe illness.

It's the first oral antiviral pill to be approved by the bloc. Paxlovid is already approved in the U.S. and the U.K.

Scientists are working to develop a pan-coronavirus vaccine, which seems like a holy grail. One vaccine, effective against past, present, and future variants, as well as all COVID diseases, including the common cold.

Here's CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

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DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Right now, it's a race.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's going to be variants for a long time.

GUPTA: The virus, against the vaccines. And the boosters, and possibly, more boosters.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The company is forging ahead with the Omicron specific vaccine.

GUPTA: But scientists have been working on what could be a better solution.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: The urgent need of a universal coronavirus vaccine.

GUPTA: It's just what it sounds like. A vaccine that covers the circulating virus, yes, but also future variants we haven't even seen yet. And, potentially, other types of coronaviruses, as well.

KEVIN SAUNDERS, DIRECTOR OF RESEARCH, DUKE HUMAN VACCINE INSTITUTE: That means, not only targeting SARS-like viruses, but then targeting MERS-like viruses. Or then also targeting COVID viruses.

GUPTA: Kevin Saunders is the director of research here at the Duke Human Vaccine Institute, one of the many groups racing to create a universal vaccine.

SAUNDERS: What we try to do is really target a specific part of the virus, for instance, that we know is it's Achilles heel.

GUPTA: Now, remember, viruses mutate all the time. So the trick is to find a stable part of the virus, a part that doesn't really change from one variant to the next. A common denominator. Saunders calls it a conserved site. Creating antibodies to that is one path to a universal vaccine.

SAUNDERS: So typically, that's the place where the virus is binding to a specific protein or host cell that it's targeting. And if it changes that site, then it's no longer able to infect.

GUPTA: A big clue came from someone who was infected with SARS, all the way back in 2003.

(on camera): What is DH-1047?

SAUNDERS: The antibody DH-1047 is an antibody that we found from a SARS-COV-1-infected individual.

GUPTA (voice-over): Seventeen years later, in 2020, in the midst of the current outbreak, they found DH-1047 was also protective against COVID. Protective against a virus that didn't even exist when these antibodies were first made.

SAUNDERS: And so we took that antibody as a template to say, there must be some site that's common between SARS-COV-1 and SARS-COV-2. And let's figure that out. Then we would know that needs to be in the vaccine.

GUPTA: There are a number of pan-coronavirus vaccine strategies in the works. But, unlike the mRNA vaccines we've come to know, at Duke, they're working on something called a nanoparticle vaccine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's multiple fights that can be recognized by antibodies.

GUPTA: Think of it like a soccer ball with tiny proteins stuck to the surface, each resembling a key conserved sight of the virus's spike protein.

So far, in primates, the vaccine appears to work. And now, a similar vaccine, developed by military scientists, has already made it into early human trials.

But as exciting as the science is, it's going to take time and patience.

FAUCI: I don't want anyone to think the pan-coronavirus vaccines are, literally, around the corner in a month or two. It's going to take years to develop.

GUPTA: Much of the work being done today on COVID is built on the back of similar research on other viruses. Influenza, HIV.

DR. BARTON HAYNES, DIRECTOR, DUKE HUMAN VACCINE INSTITUTE: We've been working on an HIV vaccine now for almost 30 years here at Duke. And HIV is one of the most rapidly-evolving life forms on earth.

GUPTA: That's because HIV mutates much faster, and that's one reason why Dr. Barton Haynes thinks developing a universal vaccine for coronaviruses may be easier.

HAYNES: Developing that platform for HIV over the last five years allowed this to happen, when the need arose, very quickly.

SAUNDERS: The challenging part is that the virus is always changing. How do you predict what's coming in the future, so that your vaccine can be effective against it?

GUPTA: And he's not just talking about coronaviruses that are infecting humans right now. But also novel ones that could still spill over from animals, ones we don't even know about yet.

SAUNDERS: That's the type of vaccines we're going to need in order to prevent the next pandemic.

GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: Thank you for watching CNN NEWSROOM. I'm John Vause. Please stay with us. WORLD SPORT starts after a very short break. Have a great weekend.

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