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Interview with Representative Zoe Lofgren (D-CA) about Trump's Latest Comments on January 6th Riot; Ex-NFL Player Aims to Give Michigan Sex Abuse Victims a Voice; U.N. Security Council Meets Tomorrow on Russia-Ukraine Crisis; The Dangerous Encounters During Traffic Stops. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired January 30, 2022 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[20:00:02]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: A mysterious black diamond is up for auction at Sotheby's next month. The Enigma's origin has confounded many scientists, some speculate it came from outer space. Others say it's from deep in the earth. This kind of black diamond usually dates back to over two billion years ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AARON CELESTIAN, CURATOR OF MINERAL SCIENCES, NATURAL HISTORY MUSEUM: Carbonado diamonds are quite rare to begin with. They are shrouded in mystery as the origin or formation because there's not that many of them found on earth. And this is a particularly great example, a beautiful example of one of these types of diamonds.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Bidding opens on February 3rd and it is expected to fetch anywhere between $4 million to $7 million.

Your next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): Tonight, the high-stakes situation on the Russia- Ukraine border. And new intel on Putin's likely intentions.

LIZ TRUSS, BRITISH FOREIGN SECRETARY: We think it's highly likely that he is looking to invade Ukraine.

ANDREY KORTUNOV, DIRECTOR GENERAL, RUSSIAN INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS COUNCIL: The West that doesn't want to listen to us, so we need to do something dramatic to get the West's attention.

BROWN: Meantime, Donald Trump teasing a presidential run and dangling pardons for January 6th rioters.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT: We will give them pardons because they are being treated so unfairly.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): I don't want to send any signal that it was OK to defile the Capitol.

BROWN: How concerned should you be about the newly detected version of Omicron?

SCOTT GOTTLIEB, FORMER FDA COMMISSIONER: It appears to be more contagious. Does it evade our immune system? Does it evade the immunity that we've acquired from Omicron infection or the vaccines? Most of the evidence so far is preliminary, suggests it doesn't.

BROWN: Also tonight, around 100 bags of fentanyl found in the bedroom of a 13-year-old boy who died from presumed fentanyl exposure at his school.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fentanyl that was found in the bedroom had a very high purity rate, 60 percent pure, when you normally see 1 percent to 2 percent pure.

BROWN: And finally, the former University of Michigan and NFL football player who won't give up until abuse victims' stories are heard.

(END OF VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

And just in to CNN, former President Donald Trump all but admitting he tried to overturn the 2020 election, which he so decisively lost. Here's a statement that he just put out. "If the Vice President Mike Pence had absolutely no right to change the presidential election results in the Senate despite fraud and many other irregularities, how come the Democrats and RINO Republicans like Wacky Susan Collins are desperately trying to pass legislation that would not allow the vice president to change the results of the election? Actually, what they are saying is that Mike Pence did have the right to change the election and now they want to take that right away."

And this is key, he added here in the statement, "Unfortunately, he didn't exercise that power. He could have overturned the election."

Just take that in for a minute. He could have overturned the election. This comes hours after he told a crowd in Texas that he would pardon the January 6th rioters if he were back in the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If I run, and if I win, we will treat those people from January 6th fairly. We will treat them fairly. And if it requires pardons, we will give them pardons because they are being treated so unfairly.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Joining me now is Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren of California. She sits on the congressional select committee that is investigating the violent and deadly assault on the U.S. Capitol last January.

All right, Congresswoman, let's start with this new statement from the president. Is this key evidence that the committee will be looking into?

REP. ZOE LOFGREN (D-CA): Let me just say this. You know, both Minority Republican Leader McConnell and McCarthy said at, right at the January 6th event, that the mob was spun up by the former president and directed at the Capitol. They violently attacked hundreds of officers. We -- people died. Officer lost an eye, officer lost fingers. There was traumatic brain damage to some officers.

I mean, this was a crime. And to suggest that the people who did that should be pardoned is really contrary to our system of law and order. I think we should all embrace our system of justice and law and order, unlike the things said by the former president in his speech.

[20:05:03]

I think, you know, we're taking a look at the Electoral Count Act because it's an old statute and there were some of our colleagues in the House that tried to exploit ambiguities in it, but I frankly think the role of the vice president will probably remain unchanged.

I guess, the former president is saying that the vice president gets to choose the next president in which case Kamala Harris will be presiding at the counting of the votes, and I guess he's saying she gets to choose who the next president is. That's clear to me, not what the Constitution provides for. He must be kidding.

BROWN: I mean, it just, it doesn't provide for anything that he said. He basically is saying in this statement, just point blank, which he has said it and, you know, the election was stolen even though it's not -- he's kind of continued to use that rhetoric, but now he's just putting out in the statement point blank that the former vice president could have abused his power to overturn the will of the people in this country. It's really just stunning for anyone who cares about this country.

I want to ask you about his comments on wanting to pardon those involved in the January 6th riot if he becomes president again. Do you think that is just bluster or something more incriminating like tampering with a witness?

LOFGREN: I have no idea what is in the president's mind, but I will say this. The other comments he made in that speech basically calling out for demonstrations if, you know, anything adverse legally happens to him is pretty extraordinary. And I think it's important to think through what message is being sent. Clearly, there are a lot of Americans who, like the former president, who voted for him, and who cheer him on. That's their right.

I don't worry about that group of people. I do worry about the militias, some of these extremist groups. Remember, in his debate, when he said stand down and stand by, Proud Boys, they had a key role in organizing that riot and I think when they hear that from the former president, they hear a call to arms. So I do think that we are in very dangerous territory with this rhetoric and those of us who are against chaos, those of us who believe in law and order, need to speak up strongly against this trend that the former president is encouraging.

BROWN: Right, and it's, anyone can peacefully assemble in this country. It's in the Constitution, but given the context here, him calling for protests if he is, you know, charged, that is just, you're right. It does certainly raise a lot of questions.

Will the committee call former President Trump for an interview?

LOFGREN: We haven't decided that yet. We are --

BROWN: Why not?

LOFGREN: Well, we have a lot of investigations underway, and that is a weighty decision that we have discussed but have not decided on. So I don't know what the committee will do and we will certainly be sure to let you know as soon as that decision is made.

BROWN: Can you just bring us in a little bit more on sort of what you're weighing in that regard? Because I mean, he just released statements all but admitting that he wanted to launch a coup. There was so much evidence out there. What is the conversation like behind the scenes weighted for and against asking him for an interview?

LOFGREN: Well, let me -- I'd never discussed the private discussions the committee has so let me just tell you some factors that I'm weighing. First, the former president has a voracity problem that is well-known. You know, there used to be how many falsehoods does he say in any one sentence, so I think there has to be a weighing of how valuable the evidence or testimony would actually be.

Secondarily he is very litigious and he would tie the committee up in court for as long as he possibly could, and since there are various privileges that a former president can assert, even if they don't hold up in the end, that can take a very long time. So that has to be factored in.

[20:10:10]

Finally, we have a lot of information from those around him, in the Trump inner circle. We have documents that may actually create the picture. One possibility would be simply to invite him to meet with us, and that would avoid a lengthy court fight. But we, as I say, have not made that decision yet, and I will say that the huge amount of documents that we are receiving from others in his inner circle, from the National Archives, is starting to paint a rather vivid picture as far as I'm concerned about what happened and when that picture is put together, we will reveal it to the American public in a series of hearings.

BROWN: You make clear to say the National Archives documents in addition to documents that have been turned over from those in his inner circle. Have you actually formally interviewed anyone in the vice president's inner circle, including Marc Short and anyone else, Greg Jacobs is another one, who is also, would be someone the committee would want to talk to? Have you spoken with them? LOFGREN: Well, let me just say that we don't announce these hearings

because some of the witnesses then become subject to threats of violence from the former president's supporters. I will say this, that we have many interviews with people in a position to know in the vice president's circle, as well as the former president's circle. And as for the questioning, the process is this, we have the committee attorneys do the main part of the questioning.

The members of the committee are also present, virtually, and we're able to ask further questions which I sometimes do, as do other members. But, frankly, the attorneys, many of them former U.S. attorneys, are quite good at their questions.

BROWN: OK. And we knew some, like Marc Short, had been cooperating with the committee. My understanding was he was supposed to meet with the committee last week.

I want to ask you about the vice president. Is the committee going to ask the former vice president, Mike Pence, to talk with the committee?

LOFGREN: Again, we have not made a final decision on that, but we hope to get all of the information in a way that's respectful, but that gets us the information that we need. If we have to call in the president and vice president to get all of the truth, I will weigh very heavily on us to do that. But it's not clear that that will be necessary, given the volumes of other information that paint a pretty clear picture about some of this.

BROWN: Last week, the committee issued subpoenas for 14 Republicans from seven states who served on bogus slates of Trump electors in 2020. Has the committee heard back from any of them?

LOFGREN: I don't know, as of over this weekend if we've heard but I've seen public statements from some of the people who have been subpoenaed that they intend to cooperate and come in, which is good. They have a legal obligation to do so. We want to know how this happened. They signed false affidavit, false statements, they were fraudulent documents. Who asked them to do that? Who organized this?

We need to know a lot more details, what role this played in the effort to upset the rule of law in the Constitution and overturn the election, how that connected to the violence and the mob, it's not all isolated incidents.

BROWN: OK. Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren, thank you so much for your time tonight.

LOFGREN: Thank you.

BROWN: And when we come back, more than 1,000 students were sexually abused over several decades at the University of Michigan. An ex- football player isn't giving up until they're given a voice.

Also ahead, 100 bags of fentanyl found in 13-year-old's room after he apparently died from opioid exposure. And Michelle Singletary knows where the smart money is. The

"Washington Post" financial tipster shares all her tax season advice later this hour.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:18:55]

BROWN: This month, the University of Michigan reached a $490 million settlement with attorneys for more than 1,000 people who say they were sexually abused by Dr. Robert Anderson. An independent report backs up their claims. Anderson died in 2008. He was the university's top sports doctor. Most of his victims were male, many of them black, including former football player Jon Vaughn, who went on to the NFL.

Vaughn spent months camped outside the university president's home demanding the school take responsibility for allowing the abuse to happen. And I spoke with Jon Vaughn earlier tonight. He says the abuse started with his first physical exam in 1988 but he didn't fully realize it was abuse until a 2020 article in the "Detroit News."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JON VAUGHN, FORMER UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN AND NFL PLAYER: It had talked about a doctor, a team doctor that under the guise of medical treatment was digitally raping players by these unnecessary prostate exams.

[20:20:02]

I should have never had my first prostate exam at 18 and I shouldn't have had 49 subsequent prostate exams before I left starting for the NFL at the age of 20.

BROWN: Dr. Anderson may have abused thousands of students over his years at U of M, many of whom have never come forward, but I do have a quote from one of the attorneys who is representing some of them. And this attorney says, "I think our society looks down on men who are sexually abused let alone big, strong athletic black men who are sexually abused, compared to what they perceive to be innocent white women, because they have this societal influence and asks men how can they allow themselves to be sexually abused?"

So what do you think about that assessment? Do you think that gender and race makes it easier, made it easier for Anderson to get away with so much abuse?

VAUGHN: Well, absolutely. Michigan, which was founded in 1817, has a history of discrimination and marginalization of ethnic groups but specifically African-American groups, and I think when you look at the typical racial makeup of scholarship athlete, most of them come from middle to lower middle to lower income area where that scholarship is their way out. There's so much pressure not only in their communities but in your

families and as African-American men for far too long in this country we've been unable to, you know, really share our mental health, our trauma or anything that showed weakness because we were bred, when we were first brought to this country, to be strong producers, work men, and so pain was weakness, feelings were weakness.

And when you put yourself in a position that you're risking your scholarship, you're willing to do whatever it takes not only for your scholarship but also for your team. And so you're constantly being, you know, made into a warrior, and warriors don't cry. Warriors don't complain. And warriors don't think of themselves. They think of the entire organization or the team.

The same trauma that affected the young gymnasts, let's say, in the Nasser, in the U.S. gymnastics, could be the same trauma that we feel. And people aren't willing to widely accept that the face of abuse and rape doesn't just look like young, privileged white gymnasts, and I think society as a whole is scared that if we as big, strong, athletic men can get raped, then anyone can get raped, and I think that's the biggest fear.

BROWN: For its part the University of Michigan gave CNN a statement saying, "The University of Michigan always has taken sexual misconduct seriously. We have been increasing our efforts steadily." And also pointed to a sexual assault prevention and awareness center that has been on campus for almost 40 years and said last summer it created a new office with what it calls significant new resources for support, education and prevention. Why is that not enough for you?

VAUGHN: Because the history of the University of Michigan, at least in the last half century, has been one of uncontrolled, unpoliced sexual assault, rape and cover-ups, and all of the institutions that are a part of the university's reporting systems are just black holes that victims go to for protection or for help that actually are just there to mitigate the responsibility and the liability of the office of the president and the board of regents.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: CNN has tried unsuccessfully to reach Anderson's relatives but his children told the "Detroit News" earlier this year they didn't believe the accusations.

Well, tonight, the world is waiting to see if Russia will invade Ukraine, but in Moscow, they see it the other way around. Longtime Russia watcher Jill Daugherty shares what she's noticed on state TV up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:29:19]

BROWN: Well, the U.S. has called a meeting of the United Nations Security Council tomorrow to work on a diplomatic solution to the Russia-Ukraine crisis. As fears rise that Russia will indeed invade its neighbor, the U.S. ambassador to the U.N. is stressing the urgent need for diplomacy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LINDA THOMAS GREENFIELD, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: We're going to go in the room prepared to listen to them, but we're not going to be distracted by their propaganda and we're going be prepared to respond to any disinformation that they attempt to spread during this meeting.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: A U.S. Senate aide tells CNN that senior administration officials will brief all senators this week on the escalating crisis.

[20:30:03]

And earlier today, the British foreign secretary said a Russian invasion of Ukraine is, quote, "highly likely."

I want to bring in Jill Dougherty. She was CNN's Moscow bureau chief and is now an adjunct professor at the Walsh School of Foreign Service at Georgetown.

Hi, Jill, nice to see you. You have said that inside Russia, the citizens are being fed a bit of role reversal here. Tell us about that.

JILL DOUGHERTY, FORMER CNN MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF: You know, the message changed a lot, that essentially that message was it's not, you know, Russia that is threatening Ukraine, it's actually our compatriots who are in the Donbass region, the Russian-controlled region of Ukraine, they are potentially under attack by Ukraine so it's really a kind of mirror image of what is happening.

But I'll tell you, the latest I was watching, and this is kind of new, coming out, which is a different approach. Essentially, what they are saying, Russian media are saying that the West, the United States, its allies, the Ukrainians are over-taken by hysteria, by psychosis, and they are essentially losing it, and the only rational people in this are the Russians. And this is, it's important, because what they are saying is anything could happen if you have countries that are losing it.

And the -- you, you know, say well what's happening to President Putin? Remember, President Putin is going off to the Olympics in Beijing, so he is being depicted as a person who's really calm, cool, and collected, can go to the Olympics and, you know, you can trust his judgment whereas the West is freaking out.

BROWN: Hm. That's so fascinating, to learn about the dichotomy there. So there is this bipartisan package of Russia sanctions moving its way through Congress right now and lawmakers are voicing confidence that it will pass quickly given the possibility of an imminent invasion. Let's listen to some of this morning's remarks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. ROB PORTMAN (R-OH): President Zelensky obviously is trying to maintain his economic growth in his country which, by the way, is pretty strong right now and keep the country from panicking while having them be prepared. But we're together. That's what's important.

SEN. ROBERT MENENDEZ (D-NJ): There are some sanctions that really could take place up front because of what Russia has already done, cyberattacks on Ukraine, false flag operations, the efforts to undermine the Ukrainian government internally.

JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: Imminent means it could happen really, honestly at any time. Now, when I say it, it depends on what Vladimir Putin might want to do. Again, as Secretary Austin said on Friday, he has a lot of options, a lot of capability available to him. He I could do something on a small scale. He could do something or a fairly large scale and he continues to add troops to that border with Ukraine.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Some Republicans would like to sanction Russia even before any military action takes place. Do you think that would be effective or does that take any deterrent away for Putin?

DOUGHERTY: You know, in a way, I almost hate to say this, but the Russians believe that sanctions are coming regardless. And they would say look, we've been under sanctions for years, it will never change, that really is Russian belief. These sanctions are never going to go away. Once you introduce them, they will never go away, and so at least publicly, they're kind of brushing them off.

Now, behind the scenes whether President Putin actually believes this, because these are very serious sanctions, whether he actually believes that, is another question. But I think the debate is should you do it now, pull the trigger now, or should you wait until Russia actually does something, and then sanction? And that is really the debate. So, you know, who knows at this point. But I'd say the effect of sanctions, with these sanctions, this is a different ballgame.

So, and President Putin understands that. But the question is, as we always say, what will he do? And Pamela, you know, I've been thinking about, OK, what is his strategy in all this? I think that the lack of understanding, of what exactly he is up to is part of the strategy. I mean, it keeps the world guessing, what is President Putin going to do and that gives President Putin time for the NATO allies, the Europeans, the Americans, everybody who, and, of course, the Ukrainians, to begin to fall apart, for debates like this.

Should we have sanctions now? What kind of sanctions should there be? Is he going to invade? That can be very divisive. If it keeps up and keeps up, it is something that can begin to pull people apart and that is part of Putin's strategy.

[20:35:04]

He wants the allies to break apart and just think about the war of nerves that I was referring to. That's all part of it.

BROWN: Of course, it's a risky strategy because it could also bring them closer together which no doubt Russia would not want.

Jill Dougherty, thank you so much for the conversation.

Meantime tonight, Connecticut authorities say a 13-year-old boy they think died from fentanyl exposure at school had about 100 bags of the drug in his bedroom. The teen died on January 15th two days after he was found unconscious at a school. Another 40 bags were found there. His mother is cooperating with police and they found no evidence that she knew anything about the drugs. Hartford Police say they have no suspects but are talking to a person of interest.

Well, the financial toll and real danger black drivers face from traffic stops is the subject of a new CNN Special Report. CNN's Sara Sidner is here with a preview up next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ISAIAH THOMAS, PHILADELPHIA CITY COUNCIL: I'm a working man with a college degree who didn't do anything wrong. I mean, what it does to your pride and your self-esteem in the moment, like you just can't get that back.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:40:52]

BROWN: It's the most common interaction between law enforcement and civilians, and some people including police chiefs are calling for change. We're talking about traffic stops. Just last week a sheriff's deputy in Georgia was shot in the chest, and then there are the deaths of civilians, names that have made national headlines like Philando Castile and Daunte Wright. Both killed by officers after traffic stops.

Routine stops seem to be spiraling into deadly encounters more frequently and that raises the question, is it time for reforms that would protect both civilians and law enforcement?

CNN's upcoming special report, "TRAFFIC STOPS, DANGEROUS ENCOUNTERS" explores that and more. Our Sara Sidner has a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARA SIDNER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ending stops that don't reduce crime but do cause trauma and increase distrust of police is the goal of a brand-new law in Philadelphia.

THOMAS: I'm extremely excited to be able to introduce this ordinance to them.

SIDNER: In June, freshman city councilman Isaiah Thomas introduced a bill that turns a handful of traffic infractions like minor bumper damage or items hanging from a rear-view mirror into secondary violations which means a driver cannot be stopped for them alone.

THOMAS: I've been stopped in the city of Philadelphia more times than I can remember, well over 20 times.

SIDNER: He says one of the most humiliating happened here as a recent college grad.

THOMAS: We are in the north west section of Philadelphia.

So I remember the officer saying, you know, you look guilty, get out of the car. And they never talked about a traffic violation so they searched me and I think that's the part that kind of gets dismissed is when they search us, right? It's a very aggressive search. So they check in between your butt cheeks, they check in, you know, underneath your testicles, and they're seeing if you have drugs there.

And then put me in hand cuffs then they put me in the back of the car. Then they search the entire car, looking for guns and drugs. Somebody called in for another crime and they ended up letting me out of the car and just speeding off.

My, I'm a working man with a college degree, who didn't do anything wrong, I mean what it does to your pride and your self-esteem in the moment like you just can't get that back.

SIDNER: His experiences, and the experiences of his friends, led him to push for the Driving Equality Bill which passed in November and goes into effect in early 2022.

THOMAS: We're looking at hopefully around 100,000 less traffic stops a year.

SIDNER: That's important to Thomas because he says those stops take a large toll on black drivers with a very small, nearly nonexistent return for the city.

THOMAS: We know that in the city of Philadelphia, less than 1 percent of the time, in a year that we examine over 300,000 motor vehicle cold stops, less than 1 percent of the time did that stop and that search lead to some type of contraband or illegal weapon.

SIDNER: That figure comes from the Defender Association in Philadelphia, a city dealing with a rise in violent crime.

(END OF VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And Sara Sidner joins me now.

Hi, Sara. So how are these reforms working because I have to think reforms in some cities are getting major pushback.

SIDNER: Hey, Pam, yes, they are getting pushback in some places. Let's talk about what the police commissioner there in Philadelphia thinks. We did sit down with her. She is the very first black female police commissioner in the city's history, and she said, look, our officers will follow this law. It's going to go into place in the next few weeks and it will be followed, but she says it is happening at one of the worst possible times in the city's history and that is partly because the city is experiencing a huge, the worst ever, number of homicides that it's ever seen.

That happened last year, up to 150, sorry, 550 people, were shot and killed in the city in 2021 and she says she is worried and some of the officers as well, worried about having tools taken away from them that might impact their ability to try and bring all of the numbers of violent crime down.

[20:45:07]

However, there are some other reforms that are causing quite a few eyebrow raises if you will by police departments, by unions and by some civilians. One of those is in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota, and you will remember, that is the place where Daunte Wright was killed by an officer now convicted of manslaughter in that case. They are looking at some more extreme reforms, one of which is to create an unarmed civilian force that stops people for things like traffic code violations, minor traffic stops, if you will, for things like perhaps you have a cracked windshield.

Now police unions have said this is crazy, it puts civilians in danger on both sides of that. What happens when someone who is unarmed tries to pull someone else over and that person was just involved in some other kind of more violent crime? So there are a lot of reforms going into place, the question is how will they do it? How will they manage it? And will they be looking at the numbers to see if those reforms are working. We delve into all of that and more in this special -- Pam.

BROWN: Sara Sidner, thank you for your important work on this.

SIDNER: Thanks, Pamela.

BROWN: And Sara's special report, "TRAFFIC STOP, DANGEROUS ENCOUNTERS" airs at the top of the hour right here at CNN.

Well, tax season is here and the pandemic is still making a mess of our finances so we have Michelle (INAUDIBLE) here to teach us some smart money moves, that's up next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:51:03]

BROWN: It's tax season yet again and personal finance is on many of our minds, especially as the pandemic lingers. This time of year more than ever, you should make smart moves with your money and for that, I have just the expert for you.

Michelle Singletary, she is a personal finance columnist for the "Washington Post" and author of the book "What to Do with Your Money When Crisis Hits: A Survival Guide." Great to see you, Michelle. So tax filing season has officially

opened. The IRS is already preparing us for headaches saying that they're still backed up from last season, literally millions of returns they have not gotten to yet. Is there anything we can do to make things easier for ourselves?

MICHELLE SINGLETARY, PERSONAL FINANCE COLUMNIST, WASHINGTON POST: Oh, I don't know, girl.

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: Oh, God, this is how we're starting off the conversation?

I wish I had better news. Now for millions of people it will go smoothly. You file electronically, you make sure the money is coming into your bank account, everything is going OK. It's going to be troublesome for people who are in that backlog, their 2019 or the 2020 return hasn't been processed. It's going to be a hot mess for them. And already, I wrote a column for the "Washington Post" recently that there are lots of people who are getting these CP-80 notices where they sent in their tax return and send in their money and the IRS says, listen, we cash your check but we can't find your return.

And they are freaking out like, wait a minute, you cash my money, where's my return? And so the IRS has recently three days after starting the season said OK, we're going to stop those notices. And already, we're having a lot of issues with the tax season, so the best advice is once you get all of your paperwork in place, file as soon as you can, once you have everything, and file electronically, and have the money sent to your bank account.

BROWN: OK.

SINGLETARY: If you don't have to, don't send in a paper return.

BROWN: That's actually really good advice. I'm taking note of all of this. So Venmo, PayPal, Cash App and other mobile payment apps now have to tell the IRS if you make more than $600 a year on their platforms. How does this change tax season, first of all, businesses that use these apps?

SINGLETARY: So it won't happen this year. That new reporting rule goes in effect next year, but what people are finding now is that if they're making payments to services or they're accepting payments, you're selling goods on these Web sites you're going to start seeing these notices that you have to verify your tax information and that's because, at the end of this year, they're going to be sending you a 1099 K for all that business that you generated.

This is the first time this has happened for a lot of these small business people, gig workers, they didn't have to report it unless they had $20,000 and 200 transactions, so it's going to be a surprise for a lot of people, and really, the target is people who are underreporting. It's not a new tactic, we're always supposed to report your income. BROWN: Right. So I want to ask you this before I let you go. A

turbulent stock market has people worried. People who obviously are invested and what does this means for the future. Earlier this week you gave some advice writing, "Just don't look, not now, not while there are wild swings in the stock market." So what should personal investors be doing?

SINGLETARY: Well, if you have a good plan in place, you know that you've got 10, 20, 30 years to retirement and you've set it. You got the right diversification, between stocks and bonds, then you just have to not look and just be patient. If you're heading towards retirement or you're in retirement, it may be that you need to talk to a financial professional to make sure that you have allocated your portfolio in the right way so that you can weather these swings. But if you got some time, just don't look. I haven't looked. Don't look.

BROWN: Yes, it can really ruin your day if you look, right, but I think that's really good advice. It's all about the long view when it comes to the stock market, for sure.

SINGLETARY: That's right. Right.

[20:55:03]

BROWN: And if you don't have that much time, speak to a financial expert to figure it out.

Michelle Singletary, thank you so much and again congratulations on 30 years at the "Washington Post," that's amazing.

SINGLETARY: Yes, I'm so happy about that, yes. And listen, don't forget my 800 -- well, my 855, my toll-free number if you have a personal finance question, we have established a toll-free number where you can call me and ask me your basic money questions.

BROWN: OK. It's on the screen.

SINGLETARY: It's 1855-ASK-POST.

BROWN: There it is right there on the screen. Thanks, again, Michelle.

SINGLETARY: You're welcome.

BROWN: And thank you, everyone, for joining us this evening. I'm Pamela Brown. I'm going to see you again next weekend. And the CNN Special Report, "TRAFFIC STOPS: DANGEROUS ENCOUNTERS" is next.

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