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Boris Johnson "Sorry" for Lockdown Parties, But Not Stepping Down; Spotify, Joe Rogan Vow Changes Amid COVID Misinformation Outrage; Ex-FDA Chief: Vaccines for Kids Under 5 Could Come in Early March; New Omicron Mutation Contagious But Doesn't Evade Vaccine; Arbery Family Attorney Calls Proposed Plea Deal for Travis & Gregory McMichael "Unlawful". Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired January 31, 2022 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:31:47]

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: The British prime minister says he's sorry, but he is not stepping down, after the release of a long-awaited report on the boozy parties Boris Johnson and his staff held during lockdown.

Johnson went before parliament a short time ago to respond to this report, which highlighted failures of leadership, poor judgment, and excessive alcohol consumption at work.

Remember, several of these parties were held as much of the United Kingdom was under strict COVID precautions.

One party was held the night right before Prince Philip's funeral, a funeral the queen had to attend by herself due to lockdown measures at the time.

CNN's Salma Abdelaziz is joining us live from London.

Salma, Johnson says he understands the anger over government parties when the country was under these lockdown protocols.

Fill us in on what else he's saying and the report's findings.

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN LONDON REPORTER: Ana, if you read through this scathing report, it reads almost the way you'd scold a schoolchild.

I mean, having to remind this government that excessive alcohol shouldn't be drunk during -- at the workplace. That's quite extraordinary. We're talking about a report that says there was serious failure to

observe the high standards expected of the office. Failure in judgments. Failure in leadership.

There's even one part of the report that says some staff felt uncomfortable and wanted to report it but were unable to do so.

We are talking about not just one party or two parties or three parties. I am talking about 16 gatherings. A culture of drinking. A culture of partying. A culture of what appears to be brazenly breaking the rules.

The prime minister's response? I'm sorry.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Firstly, I want to say sorry.

(CROSSTALK)

JOHNSON: And I'm sorry for the things we simply didn't get right and also sorry for the way that this matter has been handled.

I understand the anger the people feel.

(CROSSTALK)

JOHNSON: But, Mr. Speaker, it isn't enough to say sorry. This is a moment when we must look at ourselves in the mirror and we must learn.

Mr. Speaker, I get it, and I will fix it.

(SHOUTING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ABDELAZIZ: To many people in this country, Ana, I am sorry means taking responsibility. Means being held to account. Means the prime minister should resign, as two-thirds of adults in this country want.

But it's not going to be up to the public to make a decision about Johnson's future.

It's going to be up to his own party, who are right now parsing through that report and asking themselves a very important question: Is this the man fit to lead this country?

And it's going to get worse for the prime minister. There's also a police investigation into all the partying, right behind me here, that we expect in the coming days and weeks.

CABRERA: Salma Abdelaziz, in London, thank you.

Now to Spotify and Joe Rogan. Both under fire and now they are directly responding to the growing list of musical artists threatening to leave the platform over COVID misinformation on Rogan's podcasts.

Spotify doesn't name Rogan but says it will add a content advisory warning to any podcasts that feature pandemic discussions.

As for Rogan, he's vowing this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[13:34:58]

JOE ROGAN, PODCAST HOST, "THE JOE ROGAN EXPERIENCE": If there's anything that I've done that I can do better is have more experts with differing opinions right after I have the controversial ones.

My pledge to you is that I will do my best to try to balance out these more controversial viewpoints.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: CNN's senior media reporter, Oliver Darcy, is joining us.

Oliver, Spotify is making some more changes. What is the CEO saying?

OLIVER DARCY, CNN SENIOR MEDIA REPORTER: Yes, Ana, the CEO announced yesterday some tweaks. They're not significant changes but there are some tweaks to how Spotify deals with misinformation.

I think he's hoping to quell some of the outrage that Spotify has received over the past few days and weeks.

In some of the changes, one of them is going to be that ahead of COVID discussions on podcasts, they are going to have a content advisory. Basically redirecting users to a hub where authoritative information on vaccines and COVID lies.

And then they're going to publish -- they did publish yesterday for the first time some of their content policies regarding things like COVID misinformation.

And they have vowed to work with creators so that they understand that these policies are in place.

The CEO came out yesterday and he said this. He was very blunt. He said: "We know we have a critical role to play in supporting creative expression while balancing it with the safety of our users."

"In that role, it is important to me that we don't take on the position of being content censor while also making sure that there are rules in place and consequences for those who violate them."

He's starting to sound like a lot of other tech CEOs talking about straddling that line between free speech, free expression, while also having to enforce some policies.

CABRERA: What about this, I guess, sort of apology from Joe Rogan? Do you think he was put up to it? Do you think he's remorseful? What does it tell you?

DARCY: I think it tells us that Spotify is under immense pressure right now to do something. They have to quell this controversy.

And so you know, whether Rogan comes out and apologizes, maybe that helps a little bit.

But you saw in that video, he is saying he still really is interested in having these people with these contrarian takes, these frankly anti-vaccine takes on his program.

And that he'll maybe balance them out with some authoritative voices who are reflecting the public health consensus. And that creates this false equivalence.

If you -- having someone on who is spouting anti-vaccine rhetoric and then someone on reflecting the public health viewpoints, those things are not equal. And presenting them like that certainly suggests that they might be.

CABRERA: And yet, Joe Rogan has the number-one podcast on Spotify. Millions of people listen to him. Audiences are choosing him.

Why? What is it about him? Clearly, he connects.

DARCY: Yes, I think it's maybe that it's an unscripted conversation. He does have these people on who are not really given platforms in major media institutions.

And that's because they are, you know, spouting only sort of anti- vaccine rhetoric things that are not in line with public health consensus.

At CNN, we have a health desk. We make sure the information that we provide viewers is accurate. Most major outlets have some sort of system in place to do that.

Joe Rogan is having a conversation with people that, you know, he finds interesting, and that might attract eyeballs or ears, but they are not reflecting the public health consensus.

And I think that's really what's unnerved a lot of people over the past few weeks.

CABRERA: Oliver Darcy, thank you very much.

[13:38:46]

Still to come, they are the only group still not eligible for a COVID vaccine. Up next, when kids under 5 may finally be able to roll up their sleeves.

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[13:43:48]

CABRERA: Big vaccine news. The FDA has now officially given Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine its full approval for people 18 and older.

But there's still no vaccine approved or even authorized for kids under 5.

Pfizer's vaccine is the closest. Yet, a critical question remains, two doses or three?

Former FDA leader, Dr. Scott Gottlieb, says that is what is holding up emergency use authorization here.

Trial data shows the two-dose regimen for this age group has been less protective at protecting infection.

But Gottlieb argues that's not the point. The goal is to prevent serious or severe illness. And two doses gives a child under 5 baseline immunity.

Let's get some perspective from an expert now. Dr. William Schaffner is professor of infectious diseases at Vanderbilt University Medical Center. He's also a former epidemic investigator for the CDC.

Dr. Schaffner, good to see you.

Dr. Gottlieb says, if the FDA moves forward with two doses, authorization could come as soon as early March.

What do you think is more important? Getting kids that baseline protection asap or waiting for more trial data on three doses?

[13:45:01]

DR. WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, PROFESSOR OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER & FORMER EPIDEMIC INVESTIGATOR FOR THE CDC: Yes, Ana, this reminds me of Goldilocks and her oatmeal, right? The temperature had to be just right. We want that dose, not too much, not too little, to be just right.

And to be able to tell the public exactly what they are getting when they vaccinate their young children. And I think protection against hospitalization continues to be the big issue.

And I think we'll need to give the FDA and the companies enough time to get it just right. We don't want to rush into this.

In the meantime, we have so many children, yet 5 years of age and older, children and adolescents who report is yet received their vaccine.

I'm so glad we're interested in vaccinating the under 5s. But in the meantime, we still have a lot of vaccinating to do of our children and adolescents.

CABRERA: Absolutely. And we're also learning now about a new variant, a mutation of Omicron known as BA.2.

This variant is believed to be even more contagious than the Omicron strain but no more severe. And experts say it doesn't seem to drastically evade the vaccines or natural immunity.

What's your level of concern with this?

SCHAFFNER: Well, my level is of interest. We call it a variant of interest, not a variant of concern. And that's exactly as you said.

Because this variant seems actually to be affected appropriately by our vaccines.

These vaccines seem to be able to prevent hospitalization by this new variant, even though it spreads, if you can imagine it, even more readily than does Omicron.

So at the moment, we will keep people out of the hospital, reduce the stress on our health care system, and keep coping. And we'll be doing that into the future.

CABRERA: We've talked about so many variants throughout this pandemic.

Officials now believe this new variant accounts for about 5 percent of new cases here in the U.S. Based on last week's data, Omicron still makes up almost all other COVID infections.

SCHAFFNER: Yes.

CABRERA: So I'm wondering, does this mean Delta, which we know was, you know, more severe than Omicron, it appears, is that done? Or could another Delta surge re-emerge after Omicron runs its course?

SCHAFFNER: Well, at the moment, it looks as though Delta is, indeed, in our rear-view mirror.

But remember, this virus is still spreading around the world. And when that happens, there are opportunities for it to mutate and to create new variants.

All of the variants of concern have originated elsewhere and then come here on an airplane. They didn't need a passport, those variants.

And so we're going to have to continue to keep global surveillance intact and keep helping to vaccinate the world's population while we transition from pandemic to endemic.

CABRERA: And let's take a look at the data on how effective the boosters are.

If you look at the weekly average of boosted person dying of COVID was about one in a million during October and November. That's according to the CDC data. That's the latest data we have from the CDC.

The risk is not zero. But look at this risk comparison in "The New York Times."

The chance of an average American dying in a car crash this week is significantly higher, about 2.4 per million. The risk of death from influenza and pneumonia about three per million. We know this. And yet, less than 42 percent of Americans are boosted

while nearly 64 percent of Americans are fully vaccinated. They have had those two shots.

So why aren't more people getting that extra shot?

SCHAFFNER: Oh, goodness, Ana, I wish I knew.

Some of it must be vaccine fatigue. Some of it is just COVID annoyance.

Some of it is just not being convinced and perhaps a little confused because we keep talking about how many cases Omicron is causing.

Of course, they're mild as opposed to hospitalizations, which are starting to come down over most of the country.

So we need everyone to get their booster dose just as quickly as possible.

CABRERA: Or maybe they are listening to Joe Rogan too much and the misinformation that's being discussed on his podcast.

Dr. William Schaffner, it's good to have you here, as always. Thanks for your time and for your expertise.

SCHAFFNER: Thanks, Ana.

[13:49:29]

CABRERA: I want to take you to Georgia now. Federal prosecutors have reached plea agreements with Travis and Gregory McMichael on hate crime charges in connection with the murder of Ahmaud Arbery. Hear why the attorney for Arbery's family is calling the agreement unlawful.

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CABRERA: Federal prosecutors say they have reached a plea agreement with two of the men convicted of killing Ahmaud Arbery in Georgia.

But an attorney for his family said they were blindsided by this deal.

Travis and Gregory McMichael were sentenced to life in prison without the possibility for parole earlier this month for murdering Ahmaud Arbery while he was out jogging. That was after being convicted in a state trial.

This new plea deal is for a federal case where they face hate crime charges.

CNN's Nick Valencia joins us now.

Nick, you spoke with a family attorney today for the Arbery family. What's he telling you?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT:. He's calling it a betrayal and saying, as you mentioned, Ana, that they were caught off guard, Arbery's family was.

Lee Merritt, the attorney for the mother of Ahmaud Arbery, spoke to me by phone earlier and he had this to say to me, in part, saying, "It was presented to the family that they, the Department of Justice, would not offer a plea deal without consent of the family."

[13:55:03]

He went on to say that state prison in Georgia are violent and there's no guarantee for the McMichael safety. And they know that.

And Merritt said, not only was this a slap in the face of the family, but he said it unlawful against the Crimes Victim's Rights Act, which gives victims or representatives of those victims the right to be informed in a timely manner of any change in plea agreements.

Now we have reached out to the Department of Justice to comment on these allegations from Lee Merritt but we have yet to hear back.

And overnight, when this court filing was released, there was no mention of the third man who was also sentenced to life with the opportunity of parole, William "Roddie" Bryan.

Of course, he was the man that filmed Ahmaud Arbery's murder.

We do know that, according to this plea agreement, that the McMichaels, Travis and Gregory McMichael, would be afforded the opportunity to serve out their sentence in federal custody rather than state prison.

The family of Arbery saying these are much cushier confines, "cushy," of course, being a relative term when you talk about prison, Ana.

But we know there's a hearing both for Travis McMichael and Gregory McMichael to take up this plea agreement at about 2:00 and 2:45. And Lee Merritt plans to argue the judge should not agree to this. He wants it overturned -- Ana?

CABRERA: OK, you will be there. You'll be giving us that update as soon as you have it.

VALENCIA: Yes.

CABRERA: Nick Valencia, thank you.

That does it for us. I'll see you back here tomorrow. Until then, follow me on Twitter, @AnaCabrera.

The news continues with Alisyn and Victor, next.

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