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Trump Doubled Down on Pardon Pledge, Calls Graham a "RINO"; RNC Looks to Expel Cheney, Kinzinger from Party Over January 6 Committee Roles; Democrats Plan to Plow Ahead on Supreme Court Fight Despite Absence of Key Senator; U.S. Intelligence: "Pulsed Electromagnetic Energy" May Cause Havana Syndrome. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired February 02, 2022 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Former President Trump really wants to pardon the violent rioters that injured so many police officers on January 6th if he returns to the White House. And he's mad that his friend Senator Lindsey Graham thinks that's a bad idea.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, Lindsey Graham is wrong. I mean Lindsey's a nice guy but he's a RINO. What they've done to these, and in many cases patriots, they're soldiers, they're policeman. What they've done to them compared to what they've done to the other side, you know, you have to have equal justice. And this isn't equal. So, I would absolutely be prepared and Lindsey Graham doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Well, Senator Graham try to explain why it's important to hold violent people accountable.

He said: All Americans are entitled to have a speedy trial and their day in court but those actively engage in violence for whatever political cause must be held accountable and not be forgiven.

CNN political commentator and former Trump White House communications director, Alyssa Farah Griffin joins us now. Alyssa, great to see you. This is interesting on a couple of levels. President Trump does what he often does which is he flips the script so 140 police officers were injured on January 6th. Some of them permanently and grievously but he's now trying to claim that the police officers were, you know, the protesters. I mean, this is one of the things that he has done in the past masterfully but we're not going to forget what happened on January 6th. And this is just an interesting I think fork in the road for Senator Lindsey Graham. So, what does he do now?

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: Well, it's very interesting because to your point, I mean, Senator Graham very, very rarely breaks with President Trump. I give him credit for standing up for the men and women in uniform who are injured on January 6th. He's saying the right thing.

But here's what's notable. I mean, the charges from January 6th included sedition, conspiracy, assaulting police officers, destruction of federal property. These are not small charges. So, the notion that the former president is looking to pardon these people is absurd.

And there's actually some reporting out from Politico that while Trump was still in office after January 6th, he was trying to do a blanket pardon for those January 6 offenders. And it sounds like some folks around him stopped him from doing that. But it just goes to show he does not realize what a horrific day in our history that was.

CAMEROTA: And it shows where his allegiances lie. With the violent mob that was threatening lawmakers and injuring police officers. And we can't let that script, I think, be flipped in the way he's trying to right now.

That brings me to the January 6th House Select Committee. As you well know, Vice President Pence's chief of staff, Marc Short -- whom I know you work with him and our friends with -- he testified under subpoena to the committee. And I heard you say of him this is man who believes in the Constitution. He believes in the Congressional role and oversight and he knows the imminent danger that Vice President Pence was in that day. So, that also, I would assume applies to Vice President Pence. So, why wouldn't Vice President Pence want to testify about what he knows and what he saw that day.

GRIFFIN: No, it's a great question. I think that the question that the former vice president would be weighing is basically balancing executive privilege which between a president and vice president. I think there's a very good argument that a lot of their one-on-one conversations would be covered under executive privilege.

[15:35:00]

But with wanting to respect the important oversight role an get to the bottom of that horrific day. The one thing I noted having been in Pence world for a long time and knowing these individuals, I can't imagine there were many discussions of any that the vice president was in that Marc Short was not in. So, I'm not sure that he would illuminate significant new information that Marc Short wasn't able to. But I do agree. I mean symbolically it would be very important for him to go and testify.

CAMEROTA: But that's really interesting context that you just shared. Now to this, the RNC wants to remove two of the member on the House Select Committee, of course, Congresswoman Liz Cheney and Congressman Adam Kinzinger. The RNC basically wants to remove them from the Republican conference. They say: We want to make a statement. This is an inquisition, and we

just feel like they are trying to dig up anything they can, that it's one sided. We don't understand Liz and Adam. There's a lot of frustration with the January 6th committee and we don't think there's any representation on the Republican side.

If they remove them from the conference, the Republican conference, what does that even mean? What does that look like?

GRIFFIN: It doesn't mean much other than they could potentially lose committee assignments which is significant. But look, Alisyn, the GOP is essentially adopting cancel culture. They're saying you're not in line with us on January 6th. Therefore, you don't deserve to be part of the conference. It's such an absurd thing to focus on.

First, I would note, Liz Cheney is a very conservative member of Congress. She's got among the most conservative rankings with the American Conservative Union. She's been a, you know, former member of leadership.

But also secondly, why is this with the Republican Party wants to focus on right now? We've got high inflation, rising gas prices, you know, a potential Russian incursion into Ukraine and they want to quibble over whether Adam Kinzinger in Liz Cheney should be in the House Republican Conference. It just seems so out of touch with where the country is.

Alyssa Farah Griffin great to talk to you. Thanks for being here.

GRIFFIN: Good to talk to you.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: One lawmakers health scare leaves the Democrats one vote short for the next few weeks. We take a closer look at the fragility of the Democrats Senate majority. That's next.

[15:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer is headed to the White House today to meet with President Biden and discuss the Supreme Court vacancy -- or upcoming vacancy. Schumer wants to move quickly on the nomination process despite losing his working majority. As Democratic Senator Ben Ray Lujan suffered a stroke on Thursday. The 49-year-old is expected to make a full recovery but his absence could impact the Supreme Court nomination.

BLACKWELL: Without Republican support, Democrats need in-person votes from all 50 Senators plus the tie breaking vote of Vice President Kamala Harris.

Joining us now, former Democratic Senator Al Franken. He was a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee. His upcoming comedy tour is called "The Only Former Senator Currently On Tour." Are you sure about that though? Are you sure that you will be the only former Senator on tour?

AL FRANKEN, FORMER DEMOCRATIC SENATOR: I checked, I thought Joe Lieberman might be on tour.

BLACKWELL: No, no --

FRANKEN: Yes, we're pretty sure about it.

BLACKWELL: So, let me ask you -- first, let me thank you for being here. Let me ask you about this now needing potentially a Republican vote. I mean, it's one thing for a GOP Senator to be the 51st vote on the nomination but in this climate, do you think it's realistic that there will be a Republican Senator to join with the Democrats to get the president's nominee over the finish line?

FRANKEN: Well, it might depend on who they nominate. Lindsey Graham has spoken well of the judge from his state. So that might be it. I think this points out how important it is -- well first of all, Senator Lujan I understand is going to make a full recovery and thank God for that. But it does underscore the urgency of getting this -- you know, picking up this nominee and getting them confirmed. I wish him a speedy recovery because of this. But yeah, it might actually determine who the president nominates. Because I've heard some very good things about this judge from South Carolina that I understand both Senator Graham and Senator Scott have spoken very highly of.

CAMEROTA: Yes, I mean, remember when nominees of any party, you know, Supreme Court nominees would get a majority of Senate support and how far away we are from that now.

FRANKEN: Well, I was there for Sotomayor, Justice Sotomayor and Justice Kagan, they each got above 60. No, this has become poisonous. And the Republicans are shameless now. And that started, of course, with not taking up Merrick Garland. And the principle was you can't take up a Supreme Court nominee during a presidential year, presidential election year.

And of course, took up Coney Barrett after Justice Ginsburg died late in September. And they rushed her through in 27 days and she was sworn in like a week before the election. And this is absolutely shameless. You have people like Lindsey Graham saying, I will not allow this to happen and hold the tape. So, there is you know, it's gotten poisonous and I think the Merrick Garland thing was the last straw.

BLACKWELL: Speaking of poisonous, I wonder what you thought as you've watched Republican senators come out.

[15:45:00]

Ted Cruz saying that for the president to keep his commitment of nominating a black woman, it's offensive that white guys need not apply or Senator Wicker saying that she's the beneficiary of affirmative action.

FRANKEN: Yes, I think Cruz said something like only 6 percent of American population are black women. Well, there's been no black woman justice. We've had over 100 justices and they have been you know either white men, or two black men and now a couple of women. I mean this is ridiculous. And of course, it's shameless for them to

do that. And that's what they're going to do. That's what you're going to see. And yes, the hearings will be ugly. And Democrats need to do their job. Vet the nominee, have a confirmation hearings and then confirm.

CAMEROTA: And Senator, while we have you, very quickly, what do you think of Whoopi Goldberg being suspended from "The View" for two weeks?

FRANKEN: Well, I know Whoopi. She's not antisemitic, she chose Goldberg for her last name, for a stage name. I think she gave a really fulsome and sincere apology. I think what she said wasn't quite what she meant.

And I thought it was great she had the -- they had the Anti-Defamation League -- they had the Anti-Defamation League on. I don't know how they've handled other guests or hosts on that show before but I was very taken with how sincere and fulsome the apology was.

BLACKWELL: All right, former Senator Al Franken, thank you for your time, sir.

CAMEROTA: Thank you.

FRANKEN: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: OK, a new report by the U.S. intelligence community is pointing to a potential cause for the mysterious Havana Syndrome. We have a live report on that, next.

[15:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: All right, just into CNN, we're getting some new information about Havana Syndrome.

CAMEROTA: CNN'S Katie Bo Lillis covers intelligence and national security. So, I understand, Katie Bo, that you've just attend a briefing where they discussed they possible cause. So, what is it?

KATIE BO LILLIS, CNN REPORTER: Yes, so for months now, Alisyn, there has been this panel of scientists, medical experts, engineers that was formed by the intelligence community that has been pouring over classified data, trying to uncover what technological mechanism is causing this sort of strange confluence of symptoms that we now refer to as Havana Syndrome. And this everything from vertigo to head pressure to piercing directional noises.

And what this panel has found is that in the cases that they have studied, that most -- I'm sorry, the mechanism that may be at play here, it's possible that it is pulsed electromagnetic energy that is sort of causing this strange set of symptoms.

Now, this kind of directed energy, the report said, is not only capable of causing these symptoms. It also can travel through closed walls. It can travel through building materials. And this is important because some victims of Havana Syndrome have said that they began experiencing these symptom while they were, for example, alone in their hotel room.

So, this experts' panel report has largely confirmed a previous report that was found by the National Academies of Sciences in December 2020 that also said pulsed electromagnetic energy could be a plausible cause of these symptoms.

But both that report and this one stopped short of saying, look. this is what is causing this. This is what is causing this. So right we are still in a position where the intelligence community is saying, could be electromagnetic energy. Might not be.

BLACKWELL: Katie Bo Lillis, thank you.

LILLIS: Thanks so much.

CAMEROTA: OK, listen to this. People who are not vaccinated against COVID are 97 times more likely to die from the virus than those who are vaccinated and boosted. CDC Director Rochelle Walensky present this data during the White House COVID briefing.

BLACKWELL: She also shared data that showed a majority of people hospitalized with COVID over the age of 65 are unvaccinated, even though just 12 percent in that age group haven't gotten a single dose. Walensky added, this trend is seen across all ages.

We'll have much more on that lawsuit that could have a reverberating impact throughout the sports world. Former Dolphins coach Brian Flores is suing the NFL, accusing the league of racial discrimination in hiring.

[15:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: Oh, it's that time of year again. Time for a crowd wearing top hats and tuxedos to gather at Gobbler's Knob in Punxsutawney, Pennsylvania to ask a rodent for a weather forecast.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With my shadow I have cast been a long lustrous six more weeks of winter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[16:00:00]

CAMEROTA: OK, by the way, he has no credibility, that groundhog right there. The NOAA weather service estimates Phil's predictions are only right 40 percent of the time. OK, less than half of the time. But you love this, Victor.

BLACKWELL: I have wanted to go to this event for years. But I only remember on Groundhog's Day that I wanted to go to that last year.

CAMEROTA: What looks so appealing, exactly.

BLACKWELL: These people at 6:00 in the morning are lit. I mean I just want to be there. Get me a set and top hat, some tails, a Keystone Light, and just some time to meet some folks. And by the way, his real name is Reggie. That rodent's name is not Phil.

CAMEROTA: Well, that's a groundhog, first of all. I don't know --

BLACKWELL: He's a rodent.

CAMEROTA: Yes, but I mean I don't know -- but since you're going there --

BLACKWELL: OK.

[16:00:00]

CAMEROTA: I just want the proper respect.

BLACKWELL: You wouldn't go?

CAMEROTA: No!

BLACKWELL: Oh, I would love to go.

CAMEROTA: I'm happy to watch it on TV. I think it's entertaining. But you know it's cold.

BLACKWELL: Coats and the beverages. They work.

CAMEROTA: There you go.

BLACKWELL: All right, "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.