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Ukrainian President And British Prime Minister Hold Talks In Kyiv; Putin: U.S. And NATO Ignored Key Concerns On Ukraine; Putin Raises Prospect Of War With NATO Over Crimea; Denmark: First E.U. Country To Lift All COVID Restrictions; Beijing Relying On "Close Loop" System To Curb Infections. Aired 2-3a ET

Aired February 02, 2022 - 02:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[02:00:04]

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR (on camera): Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. You are watching CNN NEWSROOM, and I'm Rosemary Church. Just ahead --

CHURCH: Vladimir Putin pushes back, warning, the West is ignoring his demands, while Ukraine tries to keep the peace and line up key allies.

With the Olympic Games just two days away, the torch has been lit and has begun its COVID shorten trek around Beijing.

Plus, an unprecedented look into the restoration of Notre Dame, almost three years after the devastating fire and destruction of palaces famed cathedral.

ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Center, this is CNN NEWSROOM with Rosemary Church.

CHURCH (on camera): Good to have you with us.

Well, for the first time in weeks, Russian President Vladimir Putin is speaking out publicly about the ongoing crisis over Ukraine.

CHURCH (voice-over): His comments come after a meeting with Hungary's prime minister in Moscow.

Mr. Putin said both the U.S. and NATO have ignored Russia's key concerns over Ukraine and accused the U.S. of trying to draw Russia into armed conflict. He even painted a hypothetical picture of what could happen if Ukraine joined NATO and try to retake Crimea.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA (through translator): This is a sovereign Russian territory. In this sense, this question is closed for us. Let's think that Ukraine joins not and then it starts war against Russia. And so, we have to wage a war against NATO

CHURCH: Mr. Putin's remarks came the same day as a phone call between top Russian and U.S. diplomats. Russia's foreign minister gave no indication Moscow plans to de-escalate, but agreed to speak again soon with the U.S. secretary of state.

In Kyiv, Ukraine's president and the British prime minister sat down for talks with each leader warning of the consequences of a potential Russian invasion. Boris Johnson portrayed Russia's escalation as a threat to all of NATO and Europe.

BORIS JOHNSON, PRIME MINISTER OF THE UNITED KINGDOM: This is about something even bigger. I'm afraid it's about the whole European security architecture, because be in no doubt about what I think President Putin is trying to achieve here.

I think that he is trying by holding a gun as it were to the head of Ukraine, by intimidating Ukraine, to get us to change the way we look at something that was absolutely fantastic.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE (through translator): Russians should hear us. They should listen and understand that war is needed by nobody. Our country has changed, our society has changed. Our Army has changed. There will be no occupation of any territory or city in Ukraine.

Unfortunately, there will be a bloody tragedy if the invasion of our country starts and therefore, I'm being very open. This is not going to be a war of Ukraine and Russia. This is going to be a European war, a full-fledged war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: CNNs Melissa Bell joins us now from Kyiv with the latest. So, Melissa, while President Putin accuses the west of ignoring his demands, Ukraine's trying to keep the peace and shoring up key allies with the British prime minister's visit there. But what is the latest on all of this?

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): That's right. Just before the two men held that press conference, and you heard, on one hand, Boris Johnson there explaining that the support of the United Kingdom would be steadfast.

It was announced that they had also signed a strategic deal between Poland, Ukraine, and the United Kingdom, a sort of mini Alliance and it was explained by the Ukrainian president that this was essential to help Ukraine ensure its safety and security, which couldn't depend on some future, a membership of NATO in the European Union.

So, mini alliance, in the meantime, between those three countries aimed at keeping Russia in check, but also an economic -- a strategic alliance based on economic cooperation and looking at energy supplies together.

The kinds of alliances that is precisely the sort of thing that irks Moscow. That is part of a cooperation that the United Kingdom has with Ukraine. But already, the United Kingdom has shown its supports in the shape of the training of Ukrainian soldiers, has been a naval deal signed between the United Kingdom, and Ukraine. And, of course, the delivery to Ukraine of anti-tank weaponry by the United Kingdom.

[02:04:56]

BELL: Boris Johnson was very keen to explain how loyally he intended to stand by what he had described as a key democratic partner. The United Kingdom also announcing a series of sanctions, legislation has been introduced to try and expand their sanctions program, to target Europe -- Russian business leaders. Those who are close to Kremlin or have businesses that are of strategic importance.

So, really widening the net of the kind of people that can be targeted, specifically, the tiny kind of people, Rosemary, that these last few years have been welcomed at the United Kingdom with open arms.

So, a real change in the tune of Great Britain with regards to Moscow, both by standing by Ukraine, and by being a very firm and what it has to say it will take as action -- in terms of action against Russia.

We also heard from the chief of the defense staff before Boris Johnson left the United Kingdom, really echoing the kind of explanation of what they believe Russia is doing on the other side of the border, echoing what the United States has been saying in terms of what they say is the largest buildup ever seen on the other side of the border in terms of weaponry, manpower.

Really explaining the extent to which the world needs to pay attention to what's happening. And the fact that the U.K. intends to stand very close by its Ukrainian ally. Rosemary.

CHURCH: Melissa Bell, joining us live from Kyiv. Many thanks.

Nina Khrushcheva, is a Professor of International Affairs at The New School and great granddaughter of Nikita Khrushchev, who was the first Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. And she joins me now from New York. A pleasure to have you with us.

NINA KHRUSHCHEVA, PROFESSOR OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS, THE NEW SCHOOL: Thank you for inviting me. Hi.

CHURCH: So, President Putin spoke publicly for the first time in more than a month and said, NATO and the U.S. have deceived Russia by continuing to move further eastward. And he said it was the U.S. that was trying to draw Russia into an armed conflict over Ukraine. But he did leave the door open for diplomacy.

What does this reveal about Putin strategy and intent here?

KHRUSHCHEVA: Well, it's -- mean, what's new about it is that he, for the first time, actually spoke himself, rather than through various people in his -- in his government, various representatives.

So, basically, Putin came back to the original idea that the promise was the -- around the collapse of the Soviet Union that NATO is going to stay within its borders. He also, once again, and that has been said before by his people that NATO, it came to the Russian border to the Russian doorsteps, and now, Ukraine is being pumped with weapons. And therefore, how NATO could make an argument that Russia is a threat. In fact, NATO is a threat to -- threat to Russia.

Yet, then, he said, and he and others have been saying that there's still important parts of the conversation that they can have, specifically with the United States.

CHURCH: Yes, that was -- it was all rather interesting, because specifically, President Putin referred to the letter that was sent last week by the U.S.

He said it didn't address Russia's primary concerns, as you mentioned, that Ukraine can't join NATO, as far as Russia is concerned that NATO needs to move back to its 1997 lines. And that the alliances missile systems are threatening Russia.

Do you see any room for negotiation on those issues with the U.S. and NATO? Because the U.S. and NATO, certainly at this juncture anyway, have pretty much said, those issues are off the table?

KHRUSHCHEVA: Well, in the eye of the table, and in fact, when the Russians began this conversation, there was information that the Russians knew that they would be -- this issues would be off the table.

Fine, they can potentially say, they can agree on Ukraine, but they cannot agree on 1997 borders, because then, a lot of Western Europe, that is now countries in Eastern Europe, then now, in NATO with what they would have to get out of NATO. That's not going to happen and who didn't understand that?

I think, for him, the important part is to basically bring the conversation to the United State, and say, we either going to have a very insecure world, or you would have to listen to my concerns.

And I think the Russians feel that for the first time, through Putin's muscle, through all this troops on the Ukrainian border, at least he -- his concerns are being not recognized necessarily because they've being debated all the time. But they are not being dismissed. Because otherwise, if they are dismissed, they could be a much greater disaster.

CHURCH: And President Putin laid out his big concern, which appears to be that if Ukraine is allowed into NATO, it would try to take Crimea back, and that NATO would support that.

[02:10:04]

CHURCH: What is your reaction to that possible scenario that he laid out? KHRUSHCHEVA: Well, that was actually very interesting. I'm glad you asked this, because I thought when I read that, when I heard that, finally he came out with this. He finally said what it was about.

So, that has been the primary concern for Putin right from the beginning. That now, when Zelensky is such an active president who may with American weapons, with NATO weapons, may be thinking about military approach, the way Russia approaches things.

So, now, Ukraine says, well, we are going to do the same thing. We are going to take over territories that we think belong, belong to us. And that's why this conversation began.

So, I think that finally, Putin himself really made it very -- made a very, not an honest, but a very open reason as to why he thinks that America cannot -- I mean, NATO cannot be next to the Russian borders because, if say, America doesn't like what Russia does say. It's not -- it isn't authoritarian, it's an autocratic country, and they will decide that Russia deserves the needs to regime change, NATO goes in, Russia collapses. And for Putin, that would be historical matters.

So, for now, it's not even more of a national security or military security that he's concerned about. But he's concerned about his places history. That's what's so important, because Crimea should be kept, according to him. And Russia should be on shattered. And that's what he is -- he's very afraid of because he's afraid that maybe will be the same. Russia would get less a territory, as it was in 1991, when the Soviet Union collapsed that shed some Soviet territories.

CHURCH: Right. Nina Khrushcheva, thank you so much for joining us. Appreciate it. Good to talk to you.

KHRUSHCHEVA: Thank you.

CHURCH: In the past 10 weeks since the Omicron variant was first identified, almost 90 million COVID cases have been reported globally.

CHURCH (voice-over): That's more than the total reported in all of 2020.

While Omicron appears less severe than other variants, the head of the World Health Organization is urging countries not to get complacent, and to continue testing, tracking, and vaccination efforts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEDROS ADHANOM GHEBREYESUS, DIRECTOR-GENERAL, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION: We're not calling for any country to return to so-called lockdown. But we're calling on all countries to protect their people using every tool in the toolkit. Not vaccines alone.

It's premature for any country either to surrender or to declare victory.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CHURCH: Pfizer and BioNTech are requesting emergency use authorization for their COVID vaccine for children under the age of 5. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration's vaccine advisory committee will meet February 15th to discuss the submission.

If approved, this would be the first COVID vaccine for children that young. The emergency use authorization would cover a two dose vaccine regimen, while trials for a three dose version continues.

If the current version of the vaccine gets the green light, parents will have the opportunity to get at least some protection for their children.

CHURCH: (on camera): Well, just hours ago, France began lifting some COVID-19 restrictions. All sports and cultural venues are now allowed to operate both indoors and outdoors at maximum capacity as long as masks are worn.

But this gradual easing of COVID measures comes with cases still relatively high in France. Meantime, Denmark is now the first E.U. country to lift all of its COVID-19 restrictions. The government says it no longer considers the virus a socially critical sickness.

Danish health officials' credit widespread vaccination and boosters with more than 80 percent of the population now fully vaccinated.

And for more on this, let's bring in Scott McLean, he joins us from Copenhagen. Good to see you, Scott.

So, while Denmark is eager to move beyond COVID, as all of us are some experts consider the lifting of restrictions right now Is premature. What more are you learning about all of this?

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Here, Rosemary, look, I can tell you that Danish health officials would respectfully disagree with that opinion.

They're not against tough measures. In fact, they were closing schools back in December. They say that they simply don't need them right now. What makes this decision or the timing of this decision odd is that Denmark right now has the second highest infection rate on planet Earth.

But they're not really concerned about that. They're not concerned about the virus spreading from person to person. What they're concerned about is pressure on the health care system. And in a country of 6 million people. There's only about 30 people with COVID in the ICU at this moment.

[02:15:02]

MCLEAN: So, it is entirely manageable. And so, they say that there is no longer a relationship between rising infections and the number of people who will get seriously ill.

And so, that's why they say there's no longer a need for a mask mandate. There is no longer a need for curfews. In fact, there's not even a need to legally require people to self-isolate if they test positive.

MCLEAN (voice-over): Loud music, stiff drinks, and close talking. In Denmark, they're partying like it's 2019. After two years of on again, off again, restrictions, mask mandates, and lockdowns, Denmark has officially kissed COVID restrictions, goodbye.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am over it like, I think, everybody is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm excited. You know, we've been waiting for this moment for so long.

MCLEAN: In reality, the pandemic hasn't gone away. In fact, new average daily infections in Denmark are more than 12 times higher than the country's previous peak, and rising.

Is now really the best time to do away with the rules?

SOREN BROSTROM, DIRECTOR-GENERAL, DANISH HEALTH AUTHORITY: Sure. And, of course, everybody is asking us that question. But when we're looking at our hospital admission rates day by day, and we see fewer and fewer cases. And we see very few cases in the elderly that are vaccinated actually admitted to hospital or even dying.

MCLEAN: And that's just because of vaccination.

BROSTROM: I have no other good explanation why Denmark is in such a unique place.

MCLEAN: Denmark has one of the highest vaccination rates on Earth. Late last year, they lifted most restrictions only to once again batten down the hatches in December, closing schools, mandating masks indoors, and putting curfews on bars and restaurants.

Now, virtually, all of those restrictions are gone.

Is it really the end this time?

MAGNUS HEUNICKE, DANISH HEALTH MINISTER: Well, we hope so. But we promised the citizens of Denmark that we will only have restrictions if they are truly necessary, and we'll lift them as soon as we can.

MCLEAN: It's not just Denmark. Last week, England lifted nearly all of its domestic restrictions as lawmakers set out a novel new strategy.

SAJID JAVID, HEALTH SECRETARY OF THE UNITED KINGDOM: We must learn to live with COVID. In the same way that we've learned to live with flu.

MCLEAN: Before the vaccine, COVID was a lot more deadly than the flu. But as immunity rose and a less severe variant emerged, deaths directly caused by influenza or pneumonia, are now not far off of COVID.

And lately, they're contributing factors far more often.

MCLEAN (on camera): Is it reasonable to treat COVID like we treat the flu?

LIAM SMEETH, DIRECTOR, LONDON SCHOOL OF HYGIENE AND TROPICAL MEDICINE: I think it's not a bad model. Unless, of course, the virus comes up with a nasty, highly infectious variant.

MCLEAN: Back in Denmark, people are free to circulate, so, is the virus. But two years, three vaccine doses and a lot of sacrifice later, COVID doesn't seem so scary anymore.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCLEAN (on camera): Now, for countries looking to replicate Denmark's very high vaccination rate. Well, officials say that mandates are not the answer. Denmark's top doctor says that if you push people too far on vaccines, they will push back. And so, Denmark's approach instead has been to be open and honest about the pros and the cons of vaccines.

In fact, they say that the decision, Denmark's decision even to stop using the AstraZeneca vaccine last year, because of very rare blood clots found in some patients. They say that didn't damage confidence in the vaccines. That actually boosted it. Rosemary?

CHURCH: Very interesting model perhaps for the rest of us, eventually. Scott McLean, joining us live from Copenhagen. Appreciate that.

Well, Tonga was already reeling from an enormous volcanic eruption and tsunami, and now it's fighting a COVID outbreak. As aid workers descend on the Pacific island nation, Tonga is reporting three new local cases as it's locked down begins.

Now, this after two positive cases were detected among dock workers in the capital. The recent cases are the first to be reported since November. Tonga's prime minister says the lockdown will be reviewed every 48 hours.

CHURCH (voice-over): The Olympic torch has been lit signaling unity and an official countdown to the Winter Games. But Beijing is literally divided due to COVID precautions. We will go inside the Beijing bubble after the break.

And it's been almost three years since France's beloved Notre Dane Cathedral went up in flames. But the restoration is underway, and we're about to get an early look. Back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:21:47]

CHURCH: Just two days away from the opening ceremony of the Beijing Winter Olympics and the festivities are already in full swing. The Olympic torch relay kicked off just hours ago with 1,200 torchbearers set to carry the Olympic flame, but only a select few will get to see the relay in person due to COVID precautions. Just one of many Beijing has in place.

CHURCH (on camera): Another being the closed loop system to keep athletes and Olympic personnel separate from the general public. CNN's Selina Wang and David Culver show us what life is like on both sides of the bubble.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID CULVER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The motto of Beijing's Winter Games is "Together for a Shared Future". It's a nice sentiment, but daily life in the Chinese capital is far apart from the Olympic enclave within it. And absolutely nothing is shared between the people that inhabit the two worlds.

Too great is the risk of Omicron for China as it tries to maintain its zero COVID policy.

In the week leading to January 30th, 237 symptomatic infections were reported in the country of 1.4 billion people.

Meanwhile, arrivals testing and the daily screening of games participants has already registered around 200 positive results.

CULVER (on camera): The closed loop system means those Olympic personnel who are visiting from other countries won't be able to freely wander and check out some of the iconic tourist sites like this one, The Forbidden City.

For them, it is truly forbidden.

SELINA WANG, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Instead, for athletes, organizers, and us journalists inside the closed loop. Beijing has become a series of bubbles. Our hotels, the sporting venues, and places like this media center or as much as the city has to offer.

WANG (voice-over): There are even literal walls. Security, blocking us from freely moving about. We're COVID tested every day outside the hotel.

WANG (on camera): Technology takes the place of many loss interactions. Here at the media center, a robot serves our food. And there's a robot bartender mixing and serving our drinks.

WANG (voice-over): Only a limited number of Beijingers have joined our closed loop to look after in transport all the people connected to the games. And they too will need to stay separate from family and friends for weeks. Quite a sacrifice, as the Lunar New Year holiday overlaps with the Olympics.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Happy New Year, mama.

WANG: But as COVID has disconnected Beijing from the international event, its hosting. It has also disconnected the people here from the rest of their country. CULVER: And normally, during the Lunar New Year holiday, major cities like Beijing, they're empty. All the folks who live here going back to their home provinces. But this year, because of the outbreaks happening all over China, they're asking folks to stay put, so you have crowds like this gathering at some of the more popular spots.

CULVER (voice-over): Crowds that won't get to be there as the medals are contested and won. No sporting tickets are on sale. Instead, the government will issue some to a lucky few.

CULVER (on camera): Beijing 2022 is a tale of two cities. The hosts --

WANG: And their guests so close but so far.

[02:25:00]

WANG: For CNN, I'm Selena Wang inside the Olympic closed loop.

CULVER: And I'm David Culver on the outside, Beijing China.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: Well, CNN's Steven Jiang joins me now with more on all of this. Good to see you, Steven. And, of course, in this final countdown to the games, what is the mood there in China? And what's the latest on efforts to contain the spread of COVID?

STEVEN JIANG, CNN INTERNATIONAL BEIJING BUREAU CHIEF (on camera): Well, Rosemary, the mood is celebratory, but probably more because of the Lunar New Year holiday.

Although, you know, audiences tend to warm up to the games once all the actual competitions kick off. Now, the focus today, as you mentioned earlier, is the torch relay. Now, this is a much more truncated affair compared to 2008, before the summer games back then. Remember, it involved 1000s of torchbearers across six continents, and took 4-1/2 months to complete.

And of course, also back then, protesters docked portions of the related routes, which actually anger the leadership view and actually eventually prompted the International Olympic Committee to scrap all future international torch relays.

This time because of the pandemic, this is happening in a much more controlled environment. It's only going to be three days with torchbearers travelling through the three games zones in and around Beijing, but also passing some iconic spots like the Great Wall of China.

Now, in selecting the torchbearers this time, they're obviously trying to highlight a combination of sportsmanship and patriotism. So, the first torchbearer today was an 80-year-old former Chinese speed skater, who was actually the first ever Chinese athlete to win a world championship in a winter sports back in 1963.

And also among the torchbearers, we have seen so far a Chinese astronaut, as well as Yao Ming, the always towering figure in Chinese basketball. Rosemary.

CHURCH: All right, Steven Jiang, joining us live from Beijing. Many thanks.

And coming up, Russian President Vladimir Putin is breaking his silence on Ukraine, accusing the U.S. and its allies of stoking the crisis. How Washington is responding? Just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHURCH: For more on our top story this hour, Russian President Vladimir Putin breaks his silence on Ukraine. But the tense diplomatic stalemate between Moscow and the West shows few signs of easing.

Mr. Putin accusing the U.S. and NATO are trying to goad Russia into a conflict with Ukraine, and ignoring Moscow's key concerns. This, as Kyiv continues shoring up support from key Western allies.

CNN's. Kylie Atwood has more from the U.S. state department.

[02:30:02]

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As the world waits to see if Russia will start a war with Ukraine, Russian President Vladimir Putin says the United States isn't giving the Kremlin what it wants.

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): The fundamental Russian concerns were ignored. We have not seen adequate consideration of our three key demands.

ATWOOD (voiceover): His comments, the first in over a month, watched intensely by U.S. officials. Reiterating a top demand that Ukraine not join NATO, which the United States has repeatedly called a nonstarter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: NATO's door is open, remains open.

ATWOOD (voiceover): State Department Spokesperson Ned Price said the U.S. would wait for a formal written response from Russia. Instead of reading into what Putin said today.

NED PRICE, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: We heard from president Putin a variety of things. I will leave it to the Kremlinologist out there, budding professional, amateur, or otherwise to read the tea leaves and try to interpret the significance of those remarks.

ATWOOD (voiceover): Putin's remarks come after Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov gave no indication that Moscow would de- escalate its troop presence along Ukraine's borders, during a phone call with Secretary of State Tony Blinken, that's according to a senior state department official. The United States and its allies continue to press for a diplomatic solution and for Russia to pull back its massive troop buildup along Ukraine's borders or else they steep consequences.

BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I hope very much that President Putin steps back from the path of conflict.

PRICE: Even as we far prefer the course of diplomacy and dialogue, we are continuing to pair -- prepare down the course of defense and deterrence.

ATWOOD (voiceover): The United States is hoping that yesterday's sharp standoff at the United Nations intimidated Russia.

LINDA THOMAS-GREENFIELD, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UN: I think what was important is that the Russians heard almost every member of the security council tell them that they agree with us, that the path of diplomacy is better than the path of war.

ATWOOD (voiceover): The U.S. and Russian ambassadors saw one another in normal diplomatic meetings. A diplomat told CNN. But the United States is waiting for subset of diplomacy to resume, and there's no timeline for when the Kremlin will respond to the proposal that the United States gave them last week.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ATWOOD (on camera): Now, President Putin also said today that he hopes there is a solution though that won't be easy. And he's not ready to talk about what that would look like. Now, he is keeping open channels of diplomacy as he is expected to speak in the coming days with the UK Prime Minister and President Macron of France is expected to visit Moscow sometime soon. Kylie Atwood, CNN, the State Department.

CHURCH: The President of Guinea-Bissau blames drug traffickers for an attempted coup in the tiny West African country. Attackers fired on a government compound for five hours on Tuesday. The president says many security forces were killed and several people have been arrested. Guinea-Bissau has seen multiple military coups since the country gained independence from Portugal in 1974.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UMARO SISSOCO EMBALO, GUINEA-BIASSAU PRESIDENT (through translator): Today we are facing an assault. I was in the middle of council of ministers with all of the members, including the prime minister. We were attacked with very heavy weaponry for the duration of five hours. But now, everything is under control.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: The violence in Guinea-Bissau comes a week after a military coup toppled the government in Burkina Faso, Mali, Guinea, Chad, and Sudan have also been the targets of coups in the past two years.

One of the world's most famous cathedrals caught fire a few years ago. And for a while, it looked like Notre Dame might not make it, but the restoration is underway and we are about to get a clos look at the progress. Back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [02:35:00]

It has been almost three years since flames tore through the famous Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris severely damaging the more than more than 850-year-old church with many fearing it couldn't be saved. Authorities say the fire was likely due to an electrical malfunction. The cathedral and major tourism site is considered one of the finest examples of French gothic architecture left in the world. And it felt like the whole world was watching and gasping when the beloved spire toppled. But Notre Dame, which translates to Our Lady of Paris, is indeed being restored. As promised by president Emmanuel Macron, who said, there will be time for reflection and action. And that's the focus of "National Geographic's" February issue, the magazine got full access at this elaborate effort, ultimate fixer upper.

Rob Kunzig is a senior environment editor at "National Geographic" and author of "National Geographic" February cover story. He joins me now from Birmingham in Alabama. Great to have you with us.

ROBERT KUNZIG, SENIOR ENVIRONMENT EDITOR, NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC: Thanks for having me.

CHURCH: So, Rob, people think the restoration of Notre Dame has been ongoing since the fire in April 2019, but as you point out in your story, the restoration is only now getting underway. What's been happening since the fire?

KUNZIG: That's right, Rosemary. They first had to rescue the church before they could restore it. After the fire destroyed the roof and the oak framework that supported and the tall spire that stood at the crossing, there was -- the church was fragile. It wasn't stabilized by that roof anymore and high winds could've knocked it down. So, they had to buttress the building. And they also had to clean it out all the debris, a tremendous amount of debris, that had fallen onto the floor of the church. And it was all considerate of historical value that they wanted to study it, scientists did. So, they were very careful and painstaking about the way they removed it.

CHURCH: You also write that this iconic cathedral is being restored, true to its past, including rebuilding the lead roof, despite the toxic contamination caused by the one that melted, of course. They're also using wood that's more than 100 years old. How much work or how much does this stay true to the way the French do things?

KUNZIG: They're going to be very faithful to the past of the church, I think. It's really part of the whole doctrine of historical restoration in France. The idea is to try to preserve as much as possible of the authenticity of the building. So, this is a church that had stood in the center of Paris and in the center of France since before France was even a nation for more than 800 years. And it had been heavily restored once before in the 19th century, a very pioneering restoration. They're going to try to preserve all those historical layers as they rebuild it now.

CHURCH: And you spent five weeks covering this story, but you were also there the night of the fire, and you had a special tour of the cathedral many years ago. So, what personal connection do you feel for Notre Dame?

KUNZIG: I feel a pretty strong personal connection. And it goes even further back than now. I mean, I've been going to Notre Dame, to Paris on and off for more than 40 maybe close to 50 years now. And I lived in France for a long time myself and, as you say, I had visited the church in the late 90s, thinking I might write an article about it some day and even gotten a tour of the attic, this -- what's called the forest that burned in this fire. It's kind of a magical place. So, I was primed to write this article.

[02:40:00]

And then, by pure happenstance, I live in the United States now, but on the night of the fire, I was visiting Paris again with my wife and friends, and we were driving in a taxicab in front of the church as the fire was first making its appearance on the roof. And we later stood with the crowds on the banks of the sand and watch the church burn. It was -- well, it's a shocking and heartbreaking evening, but I guess I'm glad to have seen it too.

CHURCH: Yes. Amazing for you to have been there when this was actually happening. And for a lot of us who have visited Notre Dame, to just even watch it on the television is just shocking. And those visuals that go along with your story, and this drone footage, just incredible. What was the photographer trying to capture here? What did you say to the photographer? Did you talk together about what you were trying to achieve here?

KUNZIG: We talked a great deal about the story. But I didn't direct the photographer. The photographer's name is Tomas van Houtryve who's a Parisian himself. A Belgian-American living in Paris. He spent more than a year going in and out of the church. He had started on this story even before I did and laid a lot of the groundwork. And he's a -- he knows a tremendous amount about it himself. And he went to extreme lengths to get some of those pictures. Even dangling from the crane above the great hole left by the tower as it collapsed through the central walls to get the first picture in our article, so, yes. He -- did a lot --

CHURCH: Yes. Just amazing. I mean, as you're speaking, we're looking at these visuals and it's just breathtaking. And French President Emmanuel Macron has promised to rebuild the cathedral within five years. And now judging by what you've seen, do you think that deadline can be met?

KUNZIG: I'm not an expert, but I do think it's possible, and here's why. The -- I was surprised myself to discover when I visited the church that -- really, the damage was quite confined. Most of the church inside is undamaged. None of the treasures were affected. What was burned was the roof, the attic, and the spire and that's a lot. But that is something that I think it's possible to rebuild in a few years. I think the spire itself, when it was built in the 19th century, took less than two years to build.

And so, they've got a big incentive. They got the Summer Olympics coming in 2024. They've got a five-star general running the operation, appointed specially by Macron, and he refers to this operation as his task force. So, you know, I think they've got a fire lit under him, so to speak. And I think it's possible they'll do it.

CHURCH: All right. We'll see if they do. Robert Kunzig, thank you so much for talking with us. Incredible story.

KUNZIG: Thank you.

CHURCH: "National Geographic's" February 2022 issue with its feature on the restoration of Notre Dame is on newsstands now. It's also available online at natgeo.com And thank you so much for joining us. I'm Rosemary Church. World Sport is up next. Then I'll be back with more news from all around the world in about 15 minutes from now. You're watching CNN. Stick around.

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