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President Biden Targets Gun Violence; Winter Storm; Interview With Former U.S. Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta; U.S. Forces Kill ISIS Leader. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired February 03, 2022 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Alisyn Camerota. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: I'm Victor Blackwell.

Today, President Biden praised the U.S. military for removing a major terrorist threat to the world.

The global leader of ISIS, known as al-Qurashi or Hajji Abdullah, was killed during an American special forces raid. The operation happened overnight in Northern Syria. The president said no Americans were killed, despite the ISIS terrorist detonating a bomb. He killed himself and members of his family.

CAMEROTA: Syrian Defense Forces say 13 people were killed, including six children. But the Pentagon says, right now, they can only confirm four civilian casualties.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We do know that as our troops approached to capture the terrorist, in a final act of desperate cowardice, he -- and with no regard to the lives of his own family or others in the building, he chose to blow himself up, not just with a vest, but to blow up that third floor, rather than face justice for the crimes he has committed, taking several members of his family with him, just as his predecessor did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Now, this ISIS leader's predecessor, al-Baghdadi, was killed in 2019, the last time the U.S. conducted an operation of this scale.

The White House released this image of the president and his national security team watching this operation in real time as it unfolded.

CNN's Barbara Starr joins us now from the Pentagon.

So, Barbara, tell us how this went down.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, behind all the sort of images from the White House, this was a fairly unique operation.

Let's start with the fact that U.S. special operations forces were on the ground for two hours. And we were told by the Pentagon that was always part of the plan, because it was part of the effort to take the time and care, the Pentagon said, to try and get civilians to safety.

A short time ago, there was more on all of this said. And I want you to listen to some of what's come out about this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: It was securing and isolating the site. Then it was to get innocents and, quite frankly, to encourage Mr. Abdullah to leave the site. And that's why they used a bullhorn and made several callouts, beseeching everybody in that building to leave.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: But there are still some dead, unaccounted for how they died. The Pentagon declined to say, for example, how a child on the second floor of the compound building was killed.

So there is still plenty to learn about all of this. This is a mission that had been in the works. And it was conducted by special operations going in by helicopter.

The president authorized that, which was more dangerous, of course, because it put U.S. troops right on the ground, as opposed to an airstrike, because, with being on the ground, they could have better eyes on, we are told, for that possibility of civilian casualties, conducted by the special operations, some of the most elite units in the U.S. military, who are long experienced at this, but still plenty to learn about how it all unfolded.

BLACKWELL: Barbara, al-Qurashi is not a household name. People may have heard of al-Baghdadi, not so much al-Qurashi.

Just tell us the importance of this elimination.

STARR: Well, he was the successor to Baghdadi.

And, look, ISIS is going to name another successor. We have seen this in terrorist organizations now for decades. But will the next person down the line have the kind of loyalty, if you will, that the last two leaders have had. ISIS is morphing and expanding. There's ISIS in Afghanistan.

They believe, for example, al-Qurashi may have had links to those responsible for the ISIS suicide attack at the Kabul Airport this summer that killed 13 American service members. ISIS is in Africa. Will the next leader have that kind of pull?

One of the most interesting things that Kirby said to -- that we can contemplate here, he said Qurashi had knowledge about very recent operations, including a prison break in Syria that unfolded over the last couple of weeks. There was very specific knowledge by Qurashi about overseeing this prison break.

[14:05:02]

That would suggest that they knew what Qurashi was up to, that they possibly even had essentially real-time intelligence on him.

CAMEROTA: Barbara, as you point out, we're learning that there -- this was being planned for a while. This didn't just happen, obviously, overnight. And we saw photos of those moments in THE SITUATION ROOM.

So just give us a little bit of color. What do we know about how this unfolded last night?

STARR: Well, we do know that President Biden had to personally approve this operation because of the risk involved and, again, his decision, we are told that it really should be ground troops that go in order to protect civilians.

So, President Biden clearly making the decision to take that extra risk. There are a couple of fascinating details that administration officials have brought to light. They say that they -- a model of the building was made. And they -- this is all part of the rehearsal that special operations forces do. We saw it in the bin Laden raid, a model made of the compound.

And they try to assess with -- using military engineers, whether the building which would withstand exactly what happened, which is one of the ISIS people in the building blowing themselves up, blowing up explosives. And they made a calculation that the building could withstand that.

So, think about that. What a tidbit, because what it really means is, they had some specific understanding of the construction of the building to know what kind of explosion it could withstand. That's a pretty interesting piece of intelligence.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely.

OK, Barbara Starr, thank you very much for the reporting.

Joining us now is Former Defense Secretary Leon Panetta. He also served as CIA director and White House chief of staff.

Secretary Panetta, it's great to have you.

Hearing about this raid must bring you back to that night on May 1, 2011, when you were in the Situation Room. We have pictures of it. This was the Osama bin Laden raid. There are definitely similarities of watching this in real time.

So, if you could just try to tell us how you think last night, what the feeling was in the room. And you were in there at the time when Joe Biden was vice president. What do you think his style is during something as high-stress as this?

LEON PANETTA, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Well, first of all, let me commend the members of our special forces and the intelligence people that were involved in conducting this counterterrorism operation.

I think the president made the right decision. It's not easy. You have got to be able to look at the entire situation and make sure that the operation can be conducted in an effective way.

I'm sure they did that. The operation was effective at going after a terrorist leader.

And there really is a great satisfaction that people in uniform that commit themselves to protecting our country basically engage in these operations for one reason, which is to protect our country.

And I think that was the primary motive that the president said go with this operation, was to largely protect our country from an ISIS terrorist leader.

BLACKWELL: Mr. Secretary, as we heard from Barbara, that there's usually a lieutenant who's ready to step up when the top guy is out.

ISIS leaders are like shark teeth. When one falls out, there's another one that moves forward. What do you expect the practical impact of this elimination is on ISIS?

PANETTA: Well, the basic goal here is to go after the leadership of these terrorist groups, because, obviously, the leaders are the ones responsible for issuing orders that ultimately could take the lives of innocent men, women and children.

When we went after al Qaeda's leadership, particularly bin Laden, we always assumed that, even though you go after the leaders, there are others that are going to be appointed in their place.

But it also damages their capability, because the backup leaders may not have the same loyalty, they may not have the same abilities. And what we have seen happen is that leadership can basically -- if it's impacted, can erode on the effectiveness of these terrorist groups.

So this is probably a very important step because this was the leader of ISIS. And even though there will be others that will be appointed. I think we're going to be safer as a result of what special forces did.

CAMEROTA: I want to move on to what's happening with Ukraine and Russia.

We just got new reporting that basically Russia had produced or was preparing to produce this fabricated video using actors, using a fake explosion, to try to make it look like that was evidence of Ukraine troops attacking Russia, and thereby give Russian troops a pretext for invading.

[14:10:11]

Knowing that, does it sound as though Russia and the Kremlin are de- escalating right now, or does it sound as though they are trying to find a reason to soon invade?

PANETTA: Yes, I don't get the impression that the Russians are de- escalating.

On the contrary, if they're planning this kind of provocative action that would cause the Ukrainians or others to basically confront what the Russians are trying to do, and, therefore, give them the excuse for an invasion, I think it's dangerous.

This is a dangerous moment, I pay a lot of tribute to our intelligence people, because they're right on top of this. They obviously were able to get this very important piece of intelligence information, indicating that the Russians are trying to do this.

I think what we're looking at is the Russians basically playing a hybrid war here, which is what they have learned to do in recent years. And even though they have invasion forces along the border, what they're trying to do now is to try to see if they can, in a hybrid way, try to be able to provoke some kind of attack that might be an excuse for their incursions.

And so we're going to see a lot of this. And I think it's dangerous, because, ultimately, they may -- they may actually take action which will provoke an invasion. And, ultimately, that would be the worst result of all for everyone.

BLACKWELL: So, despite the reporting on this propaganda video potentially for a false flag as a pretext to invade, the increasing forces on the Ukraine border just in Western Russia, also in the north, in Belarus, there are some American diplomats, Mr. Secretary, who say that the U.S. approach is working.

Listen to former Ambassador to Ukraine William Taylor, what he told us this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM TAYLOR, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: Putin is pausing, at least for now, is significant, in response to the strong measures that the Ukrainians have taken, that the United States has taken, and that NATO has taken.

It appears that they are looking for a way out. It appears that they are looking to negotiate, instead of invade.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: So there has been no further invasion. I say further, of course, because of what happened in 2014.

Do you believe that it is working, that they're looking for a way out?

PANETTA: Well, I think Ambassador Taylor is right, in saying that what we have now is a checkmate situation.

I think the president, the United States and our NATO allies have made clear that Russia will pay a very heavy price if they invade. I think Putin, as a result of that, is facing a very difficult decision as to whether or not he wants to invade and incur that heavy price that we have indicated would take place.

So, we have got a situation of checkmate right now, which doesn't mean that it's not dangerous. It still is dangerous. It could involve a miscalculation. It could involve some kind of provocation.

What we hope is that the ability to try to find a negotiated settlement is being pursued by both sides, because, ultimately, that's the best way to resolve this issue. But whether it'll happen or not depends on awful lot on whether Mr. Putin wants it to happen.

BLACKWELL: Former Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, thank you, sir.

PANETTA: You bet.

Right now, there is a major winter storm that is -- it's just making a mess.

CAMEROTA: Oh, goody.

BLACKWELL: It is now or will soon impact 100 million people across this country. It's dumping snow and freezing rain and ice, a lot of it across the South, where ice accumulation could linger into the weekend.

CAMEROTA: Travel is a mess. More than 4,000 flights have been canceled today.

And officials in multiple states are urging drivers to stay off the road, this storm already leaving more than 260,000 customers without power. It is far from over.

CNN meteorologist Derek Van Dam is in Indianapolis, where up to 10 inches of snow could fall.

Yes, Derek, we see you in the thick of it. How's it looking?

DEREK VAN DAM, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Well, Victor, Alisyn, that's almost a third of the population in the U.S. I mean, that's staggering. Think about that.

We're here in Indianapolis, and we have got absolutely blistering wind, blinding snow and a sheet of ice downtown. I mean, it's terrible, treacherous conditions here.

[14:15:02] We drove in from South Bend late last night. And a trip that normally takes two hours to get to Indianapolis, it took twice that amount of time because of this.

I want to show you what is taking place here. That is the sheet of ice. We drove into Indianapolis yesterday. It was raining here. Temperatures plummeted, and then everything that was in liquid form froze to the ground. And now the snow is starting to pile up on top of that.

Now, that really pales in comparison to what's happening just to our south. A crippling ice storm is unfolding across places like Memphis into Louisville, where up to a half-an-inch of ice is possible today. In fact, UPS just suspended some of its operations from its Worldport hub in Louisville because of this crippling ice storm that I mentioned.

This storm is so multifaceted, Victor, Alisyn. It's just incredible to see it unfold and impact so many people, from the snowdrifts that are piling up here in Indianapolis, all the way to the severe weather threat in the South. There was a point just about an hour ago where only three counties in Mississippi separated an ice storm warning from a tornado watch.

That just shows you the battleground of these atmospheres that are taking place across the middle portions of our country. When will it end? Well, it's going to move out of here by tomorrow morning and head to the East Coast.

By the way, Victor, Alisyn, temperatures won't get above freezing until Sunday afternoon where I am. And that's not going to be melting this anytime soon -- back to you.

CAMEROTA: Yes, Derek, stay safe with all of that ice.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Thank you for showing us exactly what Indianapolis is dealing with right now.

OK, so President Biden is in New York meeting with the governor and New York City mayor on the rising gun violence all across the country. So we will tell you the plan next.

BLACKWELL: And Senator Marco Rubio says he believes it's a -- quote -- "near certainty" that Russia will invade Ukraine.

We will speak to another senator who was just briefed on this diplomatic crisis ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:21:14]

BLACKWELL: President Biden just unveiled new steps to combat gun violence across the country. He said he is confident that his new initiatives will save lives.

And he repeated that he's not in favor of defunding the police.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: The answer is not to abandon our streets. That's not the answer.

The answer is to come together, police and communities building trust and making us all safer. The answer is not to defund the police. It is to give you the tools, the training, the funding to be partners, to be protectors.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: CNN chief White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins is here with us. And CNN's Shimon Prokupecz joins us now also.

So, Kaitlan, obviously, this has become a key issue for so many Americans, so many voters. What is the president's plan to address this?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think there are two aspects of this.

In one, President Biden was talking about these efforts that he's taking, the efforts that he wants U.S. attorneys across the United States to take, the efforts that he wants local governments to take. He called on Congress to pass that legislation that we know is totally stalled.

I think the other part of this, though, is symbolism. It's a symbolic visit by the president today to show that he is addressing the violent wave of crime that we have seen, the uptick in crime that we have seen and violent crime since the pandemic happened, because there have been a lot of Republican criticisms because of those claims from more progressive Democrats who have said things like defund the police.

And, of course, President Biden has never said. The White House often reminds reporters in the Briefing Room of that. And President Biden himself reminded people of that just today, saying multiple times that is not what he thinks is the best path forward here.

But I think the question that and the challenge that remains for Democrats is not just trying to reduce this, but also striking the delicate balance of looking like, yes, you are addressing the uptick in violent crime, but also addressing real concerns about excessive police force, excessive police use, and what we have seen since George Floyd's death.

And so I think that is the balance for President Biden, but for also for Democrats at large, to try to strike here.

BLACKWELL: Shimon, let's talk more about that symbolism.

The president could have gone to Chicago or Baltimore or Minneapolis, but he chose New York. The significance of coming to this city?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Look, I think the mayor, Mayor Eric Adams, is certainly making enough noise about crime and how he views it as a problem.

But he's also making noise about the fact that he feels that the police need to get more support, they need more resources, they need to feel supported by elected officials, by people in the community.

And I think that's exactly why he wanted the president to come here. It also comes after this police department in this city has been suffering through a really harsh year already, just in January, the uptick in crime, six police officers shot, two of them dead. One of them was just -- we had a funeral just yesterday for that officer.

So there is a lot of symbolism here. And that's why the president made a point of thanking the police officers, and really a remarkable moment here inside police headquarters behind me when the president acknowledged one of the police officers from the 32nd Precinct in Harlem in that incident where the two officers were killed.

He acknowledged the officer who wound up taking down that suspect and shooting him dead and perhaps preventing further violence.

Sumit Sulan, he thanked him. He stood up and he clapped for him. And it's certainly an acknowledgment of at least him trying, the president here saying that he's going to support the police, something that the mayor here, Eric, Adams certainly wants.

[14:25:01]

CAMEROTA: Yes, that is a powerful moment. I'm so glad you showed us that.

Shimon and Kaitlan, thank you both.

BLACKWELL: Well, the Pentagon says they believe the Russians will use a false flag operation to justify an invasion into Ukraine.

We have more on that ahead.

CAMEROTA: And there's a lot going on today, so here's what else to watch.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)