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Sources: Trump And Jim Jordan Spoke For 10 Minutes On Morning Of 1/6; Putin & Xi Show United Front In China Amid Ukraine Crisis; Michael Avenatti Convicted Of Wire Fraud, Aggravated Identity Theft; Biden Touts Expectation-Beating Jobs Report Despite Omicron Surge. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired February 04, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: It's the top of the hour on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Alisyn Camerota.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: I'm Victor Blackwell. It's good to be with you.

We have exclusive new details on the January 6th investigation. CNN can report that the House Select Committee investigating the attack on the Capitol now has White House records revealing details of a phone call Donald Trump made to Republican Congressman Jim Jordan on the morning of the insurrection.

CAMEROTA: Two sources who have reviewed the call records tell CNN that Trump spoke on phone at the White House residents with Jordan for ten minutes that morning. That afternoon, Jordan took to the House floor to object to the certification of Joe Biden's election win and pro-Trump supporters attacked the U.S. Capitol.

Let's bring in CNN's Ryan Nobles.

Ryan, tell us what you're learning about this call.

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn and Victor, this is the most substantive information we have received about the communication that Representative Jim Jordan had with the former president on January 6. And their interaction was significant, because Jordan was among a group of Republican leaders who attempted to object to the certification and he's been evasive to what communication he had with the former president and at what time.

At different points, he said he couldn't remember how many time he spoke to him. He said he only believed he spoke to him at the end of the day. And then, today, speaking to our reporter, Annie Grayer, he had yet another version of events of that day. Listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP) REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): As I said, I had no more calls with -- I talked to the president a couple of times a day but I don't know the times. So, I don't remember --

ANNIE GRAYER, CNN REPORTER: So, you don't remember if it was the morning? If in was one in the morning?

JORDAN: I don't recall, but I know I talked to him after we left off floor but I don't know the call.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: So, that's significant for a number of reasons. One, that's the first time Jordan has ever revealed to anyone that he believe he spoke to Trump as he left the House floor on that day. At different times he said in front of the House rules committee for instance that he believe he only spoke to him after the attack was over, and to a local reporter from Ohio in July, he has said that he couldn't remember how many times he talked to the president, maybe he talked during the day, in the morning, maybe he talked to him after the attack.

The sum total is it's been incredibly inconsistent. What we now know the January 6th select committee has in their position a White House call record that shows that the president asked to get Jim Jordan on the phone from the residence and that the pair spoke for ten minutes. Ten minutes speaking to the leader of the free world on a day as significant as January 6th is an enormous amount of time and is of great interest to the January 6th Select Committee -- Victor and Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Maybe those call logs will jog Congressman Jordan's memory.

Ryan Nobles, thank you very much for that breaking news.

OK. Now to this, Russia's Vladimir Putin and China's leader Xi Jinping are touting their, quote, friendship in Beijing. They're standing shoulder to shoulder as the 2022 Winter Olympic Games begin.

BLACKWELL: This show of solidarity comes as more than 100,000 Russian troops are now positioned near Ukraine's border.

With us now, CNN global affair analyst Kimberly Dozier and CNN military analyst, Colonel Cedric Leighton.

Welcome to you both.

Kimberly, let me start with you. How much are we to make of this show? We've known for sometime that these leaders have been aligned. But this big show at this time, what is the significance in this context?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: It's a show of support for Moscow when Putin is embattled and for China when it has faced criticism from the U.S. other powers for its treatment and abuse of Uighurs as it's trying to have its big splash with the Olympics. It's a public signaling of the strengthening ties in this new alignment. But as you said, U.S. intelligence officials have said the two were already at their closest -- as close as they have been in 60 years.

[15:05:02]

So, is this going to mean some sort of embarking on a new trade agreement or something like that? Well, that's going to sake several years to wean Russia off of European trade, but it is -- it moves in that direction.

CAMEROTA: Colonel, it's interesting. I mean, they say that they're going to collaborate now on everything from space to climate change to artificial intelligence. How should the Biden administration maneuver or position itself in response to this?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, Alisyn, the Biden administration has a few things that they need to consider when they do this. One of the things that caught my interest was the last one that you mentioned, and that's AI, artificial intelligence. Both leaders have made it a point that their societies, their education system, their militaries are going to be set up in a way to exploit as much of the artificial intelligence discoveries that the world makes in the next few years.

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CAMEROTA: Yeah --

LEIGHTON: Putin, he exhorted his people to study AI, same with Xi. That is a major situation that was going to actually affect the way their militaries were postured against ours.

BLACKWELL: Colonel, let me stay with you. We heard from the secretary general of NATO, you know, while we're discussing the 100,000 Russian troops, who are on the Western border of Ukraine. He's really concerned about those in Belarus, just north of Ukraine, calls that a big worry. Why is that fraction of forces such a large concern considering the numbers we're seeing in Russia?

LEIGHTON: Yeah, that's -- it's a very interesting point, Victor. I -- one of the key geographic features that the NATO general secretary is going to be worried about is a gap called the Suwalki Gap that is right between Poland and Lithuania, where those two countries met. On the other side of that gap is the Russian enclave of Kaliningrad. On the eastern side of it is Belarus.

So, what can happen here is that this could be a possible route for invasion of -- you know, or replenishment of the Russian enclave. It could be a route where the Russian forces augmented Belarusian forces who may be active in other areas. It could also serve as a way in which the humanitarian quarters are affected into Europe.

So, it is a primary concern because we haven't seen those kinds of deployments in Belarus in the last few decades, but now that they are there, 30,000 or so Russian troops plus the Belarusian army, that has a significant aspect to it because it can also divert NATO's attention away from what's going on in Ukraine.

CAMEROTA: Kim, your thoughts on that?

DOZIER: Well, I'm thinking that the positive thing about the summit with Xi is it takes pressure off Putin for having to invade. Any perceived pressure now that he's got all these troops there, he must act on it, because he can now withdraw them and say, hey, I always said I wasn't going to invade. While he didn't get the promises he wanted of no more NATO expansion, no more lethal aid to Ukraine from the U.S., et cetera, he's got this public victory of standing shoulder to shoulder with the Chinese leader and signaling there's this new alignment that means the U.S. won't always be able to get its way. That is important to Putin.

BLACKWELL: Kim, let me stay with you for this next one, we heard there are administration sources who believe that the Russians may use a false flag propaganda, fake video to try to use that as some way to get a pretext to invade and Ned Price at the State Department was asked what's the evidence of that. And here's a bit of the exchange in his answer.

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REPORTER: You just come out and say this and expect us to believe it without you showing a shred of evidence that it's actually true.

NED PRICE, SPOKESPERSON, STATE DEPARTMENT: If you doubt the credibility of the U.S. government, of the British government, of other governments and want to find solace and information that the Russians are putting out, that is -- that is for you to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Well, saying that it could happen is not evidence that it could happen obviously.

First, your thought on the reaction, the response from Ned Price? And also, does this refusal do more than that to play more into the Putin narrative?

DOZIER: I mean, it does, because as John Kirby later said to another outlet, look, if we told you how we knew this then we would be revealing to the Russians how we know it.

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We would be revealing intelligence sources and we can't do that. I bet Ned Price would like to have a do-over on his comments if he could.

But back to -- look, what they have done is inoculated Ukraine against one of the tools in the Russian playbook so now we have to look at what else might Russia do. But, yeah, your taking it on faith. They're saying trust us and we know there's been lot of situations where U.S. intelligence has gotten it wrong or it's been based on fairly flimsy second hand or third hand intelligence.

But in this case, it's a good illustration of this information war that's playing out in public. BLACKWELL: Yeah, we know they have to protect sources and methods,

but there's also from the White House where they say they will take these difficult questions. They welcome them as well. So, I want to put that into the conversation as well.

CAMEROTA: Yeah, it's also reporters' jobs to be skeptical and to ask questions. But on that note --

DOZIER: And Matt Lee does that well, from the "AP".

CAMEROTA: Yes, absolutely.

Colonel Cedric Leighton, Kim Dozier, great to see you. Thank you.

DOZIER: Thank you.

LEIGHTON: You bet.

BLACKWELL: All right. Breaking news out of New York and the Michael Avenatti trial. The jury has reached a verdict.

CAMEROTA: So, let's go to Kara Scannell. She's outside the courthouse.

Kara, what's happened?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN REPORTER: Well, Victor and Alisyn, the jury came back with the verdict. They found Michael Avenatti guilty of two counts -- one count of wire fraud, one count of aggravated identity theft. Now, Avenatti will face as much as 22 years in prison when sentenced in future. The aggravated identity theft charge comes with mandatory two-year sentence. This after the jury had deliberated for 16 hours.

And even this morning the jury sent a note to the judge at around 10:00 a.m. saying that one juror had refused to deliberate and was acting on a motion. Avenatti moved for a mistrial. The judge denied it. He asked the jury to go back and continue deliberations and then they came back with this unanimous verdict just before 3:00 p.m.

Now, we're waiting to see. Avenatti is expected to be leaving the courthouse soon for any comments that he'll make. But just a reminder, he was charged and now convicted of stealing nearly $300,000 from Stormy Daniels as part of her book advance. He told the jury he had good faith reason to think he was entitled to this money.

He didn't put on a case. In an unusual move, he represented himself. And the jury had been deliberating for quite some time. They asked for some instruction from the judge on what good faith meant.

But ultimately, they came back with this verdict of guilty. It's not the only issue for Avenatti. He was previously found guilty of attempting to extort more than $20 million from Nike. In that case he was sentenced to two and a half years in prison. He's also facing additional fraud charges in California. Trial for those are in a future date -- Alisyn and Victor.

CAMEROTA: Wow. We have been waiting that verdict. And Kara just said, guilty on these two counts. It could carry a large prison sentence.

Kara Scannell, thank you very much for that breaking news.

OK. So, they are promising end to the week for the Biden administration first, the take down of that leader of ISIS, and then a much better than expected jobs report. So, we'll take you live to the White House.

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BLACKWELL: President Biden is ending the week with some pretty good wins. He celebrated an expectation-beating January jobs report, and the successful strike against an ISIS terrorist leader.

Let's start with the economy. The U.S. added 467,000 new jobs last month. The number much higher than economists and White House expected because of the surge of omicron. Revisions from the Bureau of Labor Statistics also show an additional close to 700,000 jobs added in November and December of last year.

CAMEROTA: President Biden credited his economic policies for the historic economic progress.

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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This morning's report caps off my first year as president. And over that period, our economy created 6.6 million jobs, 6.6 million jobs. You can't remember another year when so many people went to work in this country. There's a reason. It never happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: CNN chief White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins joins us now.

So, Kaitlan, the president certainly seemed buoyed by that news. What else were they saying?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, this is not the jobs report this White House was expecting today. They had actually been downplaying expectations over the last several days, telling reporters that they thought maybe a little dicey in this reporting because, of course, they knew when the data was collected, that's when you were looking at cases throughout the United States.

They were looking at different numbers than we were seeing now, where cases were topping over 800,000 a day. We know millions of people were staying home, not going to work, not looking for work because of the omicron variant that hit the United States so hard. So, these numbers came as quite a surprise to the White House as well, a pleasant surprise, of course. And that is why President Biden came out there and touted them, talking about the resilience of the economy since it was 467,000 jobs added in January. But it's not just that, it's also that the Labor Department revised those payroll totals for November adding another 700,000 jobs than we had previously had happened in those two months.

And so, this is all welcome news for the White House and the president was touting his own efforts saying it's part of the driving factor. But, of course, the president was talking about omicron and the effect it's had on the mentality of the American worker as it's come back and had these variants surprise people.

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And today, he was saying that part of the economic fight is still not over yet.

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BIDEN: I know that January was a hard month for many Americans. I know that after almost two years, the physical and emotional way to the pandemic has been incredibly difficult to bear for so many people. Here's the good news. We have the tools to save lives and to keep businesses open, to keep schools open. Keep workers on the job.

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COLLINS: So, the president saying we're basically in a different situation now with variants as they arise. But one thing he did knowledge is something that is still very hurtful for a lot of Americans. That's inflation numbers that we are seeing. And the president is talking about his efforts to address that, gas prices being up, the price of groceries being up, saying that they are taking steps to combat that. Of course, that is the reality that goes alongside these very good numbers that the White House got today.

BLACKWELL: Kaitlan Collins for us at the White House, thank you very much.

Let's bring in now, Rana Foroohar, CNN global economist analyst. She's also global business and columnist -- global business columnist and associate editor at "Financial Times". Good to see you again.

Let's start here. Before we get to the forecast and the expectations, just the number, 467,000 new jobs, unemployment rate tipped up to 4 percent for a good reason. Big numbers in the context of omicron.

What do you see behind these numbers? What does it mean?

RANA FOROOHAR, CNN GLOBAL ECONOMIST ANALYST: Well, it means we've got a much more robust recovery at this point in time than we thought. I mean, these numbers were taken in the middle of January which is when the variant was really popping. And, you know, they're just so much better than we expected. I think this says a couple of things. First, that the stimulus money

that was poured into the economy worked in the sense it did get things back up and running. I think there's also a sense that more people have been vaccinated. People have a certain amount of COVID fatigue. They were not as willing, you know, to stop their live, to stop going to restaurants, to stop going out. I think businesses were reflecting that.

Also, prior to the latest variant wave, businesses were struggling to fill positions. So, I think they were really, really competing for labor. They were trying to get jobs created. You know, really trying to compete with other businesses. And I think you're seeing all that now.

CAMEROTA: Rana, what is wrong with the economic forecasters? They are getting it wrong more often than Punxsutawney Phil.

BLACKWELL: Not Punxsutawney Phil.

CAMEROTA: Yeah, Punxsutawney Phil has a bad track record, and the economic forecasters are about at that level.

FOROOHAR: I love that. I'm going to steal that and use it actually.

You know, I mean, this has been a problem, frankly, for 10 years. You know, you go back, why -- why did nobody predict the great financial crisis?

Listen, there's a lot going on. One of the things that's happened is our economy has changed so much in the last few years. People are working in different ways. I mean, just think about the gig economy. You know, a lot of people aren't having their data tallied in the old ways. I think the Labor Department really, really needs to update methods.

You know, you see household surveys and labor surveys coming in with different numbers. I think once the dust settles, we're going to have to have a really close look at how we gathered data on this economy. It's clearly not working.

BLACKWELL: So, November's numbers revise up 398,000. December's numbers revise upward, 311,000, 467,000 this month. Could these really strong numbers nudge the Fed to act a little more aggressively, move faster. What are the consequences if they decide to do that?

FOROOHAR: Well, for sure. I think there's no question that they will. The bond market is already showing that it expect interest hikes to start and to move quickly. What that will mean is hopefully inflation will be gotten a bit under control. The president is talking about, you know, wage hikes are an issue for businesses but also energy prices, food prices. These really hit people at the kitchen table. So, you need to get that under control.

The risk, of course, is that you get a stock market correction, because the stock market doesn't like higher interests. That said, I think it's important to remember that most people hold

most of their wealth in housing. I think house prices are still going to stay stable, if not nudge higher.

CAMEROTA: Let's look at where jobs were added, because as we said, the unemployment rate ticked up but it's because people were getting off the sidelines. And so, leisure and hospitality added lot of jobs, professional services, retail, transportation.

And so, do you think this is a trend?

FOROOHAR: Well, I do. And one of the things that's interesting is that long term unemployed people are going back to work. That's a big indicator. When people have been out of work for months or years, oftentimes, they are permanently out of work. That's a really hard number to budge, but we are starting to see that tick down. So, people who have been on the side lines for a long time are getting back in the labor market. That's very positive.

CAMEROTA: Okay. Rana Foroohar, thanks so much.

[15:25:03]

FOROOHAR: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: All right. We could be edging closer to a return to normalcy as some cities begin to lift mask mandates. A new study shows that consistently wearing a mask indoors significantly lowers the risk of testing positive for COVID-19.

CAMEROTA: Plus, the CDC unveils its latest weapon in fight against COVID-19. Your toilet.

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