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Mike Pence Hits Back At Trump Over 2020 Election; President Biden Sets First-Year Record As January Jobs Report Beats Expectations; Testing Plexiglass Barriers Against COVID; Interview With Dr. Tom Frieden, Former CDC Director; Rep. Ritchie Torres (D-NY) Discusses Biden's New Plans To Take On Gun Violence & Video Of Joe Rogan Using N-Word In Show; Moroccan Boy Trapped In Well For Four Days Has Died. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired February 05, 2022 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:37]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

And former Vice President Mike Pence says Donald Trump is wrong and yesterday in front of a conservative crowd, he shot down Trump's never-ending election lie.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT: I heard this week that President Trump said I had the right to overturn the election. President Trump is wrong. I had no right to overturn the election. The presidency belongs to the American people, and the American people alone. And frankly, there is no idea more un-American than the notion that any one person could choose the American president. Under the Constitution I had no right to change the outcome of our election.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: As for Trump, surprising no one, he fired back with an incoherent statement saying, in part, "I was right and everyone knows it. A great opportunity lost but not forever. In the meantime, our country is going to hell."

But officers who were at the Capitol on January 6th might say the country has already been to hell. The Justice Department has released several not-yet-seen videos from that day.

This one shows the battle in the Lower West Tunnel, Lower West Terrace Tunnel where police fought off rioters from entering the Capitol for several hours. This was the culmination of Trump's big lie.

But if you're a conservative who likes to tell it like it is, today's Republican Party greets you with more lies and retribution. Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger have been formally censured by the Republican National Committee because they serve on the House panel that's investigating what happened on January 6th. And get this, in the resolution, the RNC refers to the events of January 6th as, quote, "legitimate political discourse." If you can believe that. Now they're trying to clean it up saying they didn't mean the people who were violent.

Let's bring in former Clinton White House adviser, CNN political commentator, Paul Begala, and former Republican Congresswoman Barbara Comstock.

Congresswoman, thanks so much for being with us. What do you make of Pence's speech? Do you think it's too little too late? What kind of an effect can it have now?

BARBARA COMSTOCK (R), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: Well, I think what you're seeing is sort of the Trump operation is in sort of a meltdown. Of course, Mike Pence is right, Donald Trump was wrong, and he basically also called him un-American. And he did it in front of the conservative Federalist Society members who gave him a standing ovation. And at this same convention, Ron DeSantis was also being interviewed and speaking with Kayleigh McEnany who's turned over apparently, reportedly a lot of her documents and everything to the committee.

You have Mike Pence staff meeting with the committee, talking to them, turning over documents. Now all the archived documents are being turned over. The walls are closing in on Trump and I think this was a desperate audience of one resolution from the RNC.

Let's not call it the Republican Party. It's 168 members who are obviously intimidated by Donald Trump, but I think you're going to have not just Mike Pence, but people like Bill Barr and other Justice Department people stand up. You're going to have, you know, they interviewed people like from the White House Counsel's Office. They also told Donald Trump he was wrong, and then as we've talked about repeatedly, those January 6th e-mails and contacts and in the weeks and days leading up to it.

All of that contemporaneous documentation is going to come out and spill out and show not only was Donald Trump wrong, he was engaged in what I think could very likely be criminal activity, but certainly unconstitutional and impeachable, which will, you know, make people like Liz Cheney be more than right in what she's doing and why the January 6th committee is so important.

ACOSTA: Right. And Paul, CNN's Randi Kaye spoke to Republicans who attended this Pence speech at the Federalist Society. Let's listen to what they told her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTINE PRATT, REPUBLICAN VOTER: I was pleasantly surprised with how he handled it. I thought he did a great job. I think it's time to move on from the 2020 election and look forward to 2024.

TOM FEENEY, REPUBLICAN VOTER: I think he's made it clear, the vice president has, that he has a difference of opinion with the president, the president's team over what the duties of the vice president required on January 6th. [16:05:03]

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Were you happy to hear him address it?

FEENEY: Well, I think he needed to address it. This is a great audience. These are constitutional scholars here so you're speaking to a very educated group.

KEISHA RUSSELL, REPUBLICAN VOTER: I think Mike Pence was -- did the right thing. I think Mike Pence should have done what he felt was right and it sounds like he did.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Paul, it might not help Pence's chances for running for president, but it's helpful to the country.

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it is. And look, I appreciate that he did it. It is a little bit, you know, water is wet. The earth is round. It's an obvious statement. Barbara and I are both lawyers. You don't have to go to law school to know that the vice president can't overturn an election.

It's really dangerous what Mr. Trump is trying to allege and that so many Republicans are falling in line with this big lie. It's really frightening and now as you have noted, it's morphed from the lie that somehow there was cheating in the election, which there wasn't. Now the lie is that the riot, the insurrection, this terrorist attack on our Capitol, was somehow legitimate political discourse.

Good luck trying to clean that up, Republican Party. If I might advise them, as a lifelong Democrat, what they ought to say, they ought to describe that terrorist insurrectionist riot as, how about this phrase? The opposite of patriotism. That's what Ronna Romney McDaniel, the chairwoman then and now of the RNC, called it a year ago. She was right then, she's wrong now.

The facts haven't changed. In fact as you noted at the top, we're getting new evidence every day of how much worse it was than we even knew at the time. So why isn't at the time that Chairwoman McDaniel called it the opposite of patriotism? Kevin McCarthy called it unacceptable and un-American back then, a year ago. Now? Thundering silence.

We haven't heard McCarthy, McConnell, other leaders of the party tell us whether they agree with Mike Pence or whether they agree with Donald Trump. Whether they agree with what they said last year about the riot or what the RNC is saying now.

ACOSTA: And Congresswoman, let me play a clip for you of Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz. He was just on Steve Bannon's podcast, Steve Bannon who's still doing a podcast despite the fact that he's under indictment. And he's talking about meeting with Pence ahead of January 6th. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): I remember my last meeting with Mike Pence. It was before January 6th. It was in the White House. We were there talking not about insurrection and overthrowing the government, but about the substantive arguments that we believed would prevail in debate much like Peter Navarro has laid out on this program and also the substantive arguments that we thought would be persuasive to state legislatures who are looking for a signal to take more aggressive action to not maintain the fiction of elections that were not run fairly.

And I knew then that he was not going to show a great deal of boldness before the Congress. We put forward arguments and affidavits and evidence. We showed him videos. We were in the Cabinet room meeting with Mike Pence in the days leading up to January 6th and I left quite disappointed that he was not motivated by our argument.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: You know, Congresswoman, it's not just about what occurred on January 6th. It is about what occurred in the run up to January 6th and this pressure campaign that the former vice president was subjected to. Doesn't that call for, I mean the obvious here, which is that Mike Pence needs to speak with the January 6th committee? As we were saying earlier in the show, he is the mother of all January 6th witnesses. If you'll excuse the pun.

COMSTOCK: Sure. And I think his staff has already done so and documents are coming in. I certainly hope he would talk to the committee and I think, you know, show people like, you know, Matt Gaetz and Steve Bannon, these are the lowest of the low. These are the only people left in the Trump, you know, sort of circle. I mean, look at who didn't speak up yesterday.

You know, there were not people out on FOX all day defending this resolution or pushing back on Mike Pence or defending the president, the former president, and his talk of pardons. Republicans are now silent so if you're Donald Trump, that means you don't have a lot of support. You may intimidate people, but these are all people who really ultimately hope you go away.

So I think the legal cases, whether it's Georgia, New York, and his personal business problems here in Washington, D.C. and the investigation where I think there's a lot more than we know about yet, that it is all closing in on him and these desperate people that he still has around him who themselves may be in need of, you know, hoping for pardons or power from Donald Trump, something that will never come because he never will be re-elected, but it is a pathetic group that is still around.

And Republicans should not fear a man who has -- the people who are around him, you wouldn't hire to run for, you know, a dogcatcher race, so why would you fear these people now?

[16:10:12]

And I do think Liz Cheney and, you know, people like Mitt Romney and others are going to be very much vindicated. And the "National Review" magazine, the conservative magazine, called this resolution morally repugnant and politically self-destructive. That's exactly what it is and that's why Republicans at large are not defending it.

ACOSTA: Yes. Paul, I mean, we were saying in the last hour, I said in the last hour that the Republican Party is essentially becoming national emergency. If the party is going to embrace a document, a resolution that describes the events on January 6th as being part of legitimate political discourse, then they have essentially embraced a terror terrorist attack. They've embraced political violence.

Mitt Romney tweeted about what occurred at this RNC meeting in this censure resolution. He writes, "Shame falls on a party that would censure persons of conscience, who seek truth in the fact of vitriol. Honor attaches to Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for seeking truth even when doing so comes at great personal cost."

Your thoughts on all this, Paul? You know, it's Mitt Romney essentially talking to his niece, the chair of the RNC, who could not be more Trumpy.

BEGALA: It's just astonishing and I do salute Senator Romney. When he ran for president, I helped President Obama defeat him, I'm glad I did, but that was a fair fight. It was a partisan fight. This is not partisan. Barbara and I have been political adversaries all of our adult lives. This is about putting the Constitution first. And the first test of whether you believe in democracy and our Constitution is, do you acknowledge when you lost?

We both -- Barbara and I both live in Virginia. She was my delegate in Richmond for a while. My friend Terry McAuliffe just got defeated for governor by her friend Glenn Youngkin. You know what Terry did? He called Glenn Youngkin. He offered his support and assistance. He saluted him. He honored the election and he attended the inaugural. That's what you do.

(CROSSTALK)

COMSTOCK: No, he didn't attend the inaugural. He didn't attend.

BEGALA: No, he was sick. No, he was exposed to COVID.

COMSTOCK: But no flag were raised.

BEGALA: He would have, but he's exposed to COVID. Forgive me, I got that wrong.

ACOSTA: He would have gone.

BEGALA: It was because he was exposed to COVID. It wasn't because he thought the election was rigged. But I want to unpack something Gaetz said. More aggressive action. In addition to violence, the terrorism, Republicans -- Trump Republicans and some capitals are moving to try to take the election away from citizens.

In Arizona, there was a bill that would have allowed the politicians, after the election, if they don't like the results, to take back the election and decide for themselves, the state legislature, and God bless the speaker there, a guy named Rusty Bowers, who's a Goldwater conservative.

COMSTOCK: Republican speaker.

BEGALA: Who killed that bill.

ACOSTA: Well, you're right about that, Paul.

COMSTOCK: God bless him. More people like that will stand up. More in the coming days, I think you are going to hear from more, you know, Republicans across the country because they realize hitching their wagon to Trump is morally repugnant and politically self-destructive. That is what I -- you know, it's going to be tough going for the people. The few brave, courageous men and women like Liz Cheney and Senator Mitt Romney, Ben Sasse, Bill Cassidy who came out yesterday, Adam Kinzinger.

Those are the people who are going to make a majority by having that courage to stand up and Trump is a shrinking, sore loser, guy, retired guy down in Florida who was I guess last night reportedly a disc jockey at Mar-a-Lago. So there you go.

ACOSTA: Yes. I mean, you know, it's sad. I mean, just think of all the sad country music songs he was playing last night. I guess, you know, crying into his diet coke.

But, all right, Barbara, Paul, thanks so much. We appreciate it.

BEGALA: Thanks, Jim.

COMSTOCK: Thank you.

ACOSTA: All right. Coming up, the latest jobs report smashing expectations. Has the pandemic finally lost its grip on the U.S. economy?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:18:20]

ACOSTA: American families are looking at soaring inflation and high consumer prices but President Biden is celebrating some good news on the economic front. The U.S. economy added nearly half a million jobs last month, crushing expectations and a record 6.6 million jobs were added during Biden's first year in office.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond is at the White House.

Jeremy, President Biden was no doubt in need of some good economic news here. I think I could hear that collective sigh of relief coming from the White House when those numbers came out.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, no doubt about it, Jim. In fact they were preparing for a very bad jobs report for several days leading up to that Friday jobs report. We heard the White House press secretary, several of the president's top economic advisers, warning that this was going to be an underwhelming jobs report and that there could potentially even be job losses during the month of January because of the way that the data is collected and because of the peak of the Omicron surge happening at the same time that that data was being collected.

But instead, they got this great surprise of 467,000 jobs created last month adding to the president's economic record with his first year in office creating more jobs than any other president on record for any single year. The president, though, making clear that there is still more work ahead, but it does seem to be the beginning perhaps of moving past COVID's impact on the economy, at least the heavy impact that we saw in the first year. Listen to the president yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know it hasn't been easy. I know that January was a very hard month for many Americans. I know that after almost two years, the physical and emotional weight of the pandemic has been incredibly difficult to bear for so many people. But here's the good news, we have the tools to save lives and to keep businesses open and keep schools open, keep workers on the job and sustain this historic economic comeback.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

[16:20:12]

DIAMOND: And you hear the president signaling there that perhaps we're moving to this new phase of the pandemic as we have heard from White House officials. A time when Americans can begin to live more normally with the virus in a more endemic phase. At the same time, though, on the flip side of all this, even though that you have all these great economic numbers, there's inflation concerns.

Just a third of Americans feel like the state of the economy is in a good place. All of that is going to be problematic for President Biden and Democrats heading into the midterms -- Jim.

ACOSTA: All right, Jeremy Diamond at the White House, thank you very much.

Coming up, plexiglass barriers may represent part of the new normal when it comes to fighting COVID. There are at restaurants, businesses and pretty much everywhere you look. But do they work? CNN's Randi Kaye joins us with the answers.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:25:21]

ACOSTA: The U.S. has reached another grim milestone in the pandemic. More than 900,000 total deaths from COVID-19 according to data from Johns Hopkins University. In the past two weeks, there have been more than 2,000 deaths reported daily, and yet the White House has cautiously promoting the idea that we may soon enter a new normal where we co-exist with the coronavirus even as we return to something like our pre-COVID lies.

For many, that would mean fewer masks and mask mandates. But it also means something we didn't see much of before the pandemic. Those plexiglass barriers at restaurants, schools, and businesses. We were curious, though, are they effective and how well do they work without masking?

Our Randi Kaye has some answers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three, two, one.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Inside this lab at Florida Atlantic University, two engineering professors are simulating a cough to see how coronavirus droplets may spread in the workplace and other real-world situations.

This mannequin's mouth is filled with water and glycerin. A pump forces it to expel the mixture similar to a cough. A green laser captures the droplets in the air. The professors aren't so concerned about the big droplets that fall to the ground. It's the smaller aerosolized droplets that linger in the air that pose the greatest risk.

To simulate the real world, the professors use a plexiglass screen similar to those found inside many offices, retail stores, nail salons and airports nationwide. When the mannequin coughs, the screen traps most of the larger particles so the person on the other side may avoid a direct hit, but those smaller aerosolized particles still escape around the sides and over the top.

MANHAR DHANAK, PROFESSOR OF OCEAN ENGINEERING, FLORIDA ATLANTIC UNIVERSITY: They're not 100 percent, the passage of the droplet to the other side, but it reduces the number that go through.

KAYE: Professor Manhar Danak says the screens reduce the droplet concentration by about 80 percent so the viral load is much lower and the cough stream may not go as far with the screen.

When we visited this lab earlier in the pandemic to test the power of a cough without a plexiglass screen, droplets traveled as far as 12 feet with nothing to stop them. But even with the screen, lighter aerosolized droplets can accumulate in the air.

DHANAK: They can linger for seven to eight minutes.

KAYE: The professors found masking can help stop the spread when used along with the plexiglass screen, but it has to be a high-quality mask. When we tried a simple cloth mask, this happened.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three, two, one.

KAYE: Most of the droplets got through. And while the screens can help protect you, Professor Dhanak says too many of them in one room can block air flow and put people at risk.

(On camera): Now this type of setup simulates an office environment. It's a plexiglass desk with three sides. You might also find this in the classroom. The question is, if somebody coughs, will it stop the spread? So let's turn out the lights and find out.

(Voice-over): The three-sided screen helps contain a significant portion of the droplets. Most swirl within.

(On camera): So the screen also slows down the force of the cough jet?

DHANAK: Yes, exactly.

KAYE (voice-over): Still, he warns if the air in the room is flowing toward the source of the cough, there could be a backdraft effect. In that case, the virus trapped behind the desk would be pushed further backward toward those seated behind the person who coughed.

With the workplace desk setup, we tried a high quality N95 mask to see if it helped. The droplets went straight up in the air through the small gap at the bridge of the nose. Proof a well-fitted mask is key.

(On camera): Droplets going up is better than them being propelled forward, though, right?

DHANAK: Yes.

KAYE: So that shows that that N95 made a difference.

DHANAK: Yes, it does make a difference.

KAYE (voice-over): Randi Kaye, CNN, Dania Beach, Florida.

(END OF VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: And let's bring in former CDC director, Dr. Tom Frieden.

Dr. Frieden, great to see you. Let's talk about that Randi Kaye piece we just saw a few moments ago. Two years into this pandemic, we're still learning about how these droplets travel in the air. Facemasks sometimes work, sometimes they don't. Depending on the mask. And let's talk about these physical barriers. Are we going to be seeing more of those cropping up, you know, just about every place we go to? Restaurants, stores, that sort of thing, to help keep us safe?

[16:30:00]

DR. TOM FRIEDEN, FORMER CDC DIRECTOR: What's really the case is that we have remarkably effective vaccines and that's our first line of defense.

The next important thing is masking. And better masks are better, surgical better than cloth, N-95 better than surgical.

As we move forward, we may need to change how we think about it. If you look at places like Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong, when people feel sick, if they have to go out, they wear a mask.

If it's flu season, they wear a mask. If they have a transplant or immunosuppressed, they wear a mask.

Making masks a more accepted part of life is part of living with COVID.

I think in terms of the barrier, they can have a role, but it is complicated. They can make things better. Too much can interfere with ventilation. There is some value to them in some settings.

But increasing ventilation, opening the windows, increasing filtration with filtration of the air in closed spaces, can have an important role as well.

ACOSTA: Dr. Frieden, you had this great piece, opinion piece at CNN.com this week. Everybody should read it. It's called, "Why I'm Cautiously Optimistic about COVID-19."

You write, "Vaccines and prior infection have steadily strengthened our collective immune defenses. We have now built up a wall of immunity."

It's optimistic. But what will it take to keep of that wall of immunity strong, do you think?

And are you concerned that pandemic fatigue has set in so much that everybody is just ready throw it out the window, throw everything out the window and get back to their normal life.

If you're protected, you're protected. If you're not protected, you've made your choice.

FRIEDEN: I do worry that we've gotten hardened to these numbers that are almost unspeakable, 1,000, 2,000, 2,500 deaths a day. That's stunning.

As an infectious disease specialist, when we had one case of multi- drug resistance to tuberculosis resulting in a fatality in a prison guard in New York State years ago, that was a crisis. That was one case.

I think sometimes these numbers do numb us of the impact. But I am optimistic. We have better tools than ever before. Better information than ever before.

More vaccines. More tests. More masks. More information about ventilation. Better genomic surveillance. We have a better chance of catching the next variant when it comes.

There's nothing to guarantee there won't be a nightmare variant that gets emerges and is deadly and transmissible and gets around our immune defenses.

But even if that were to happen, even if that worst-case scenario, we're better equipped to handle it than ever. So I am optimistic that we're going to have a brighter 2022.

ACOSTA: I hope you're right about that. I'm ready for it. Everybody's ready for it.

And the CDC is considering whether to lengthen the recommended time between first and second doses of Pfizer and Moderna to eight weeks. Right now, it's three weeks for Pfizer, four weeks for Moderna.

I guess some of that makes sense because, if you have that second dose a little later on, pushed back, it might prolong I guess your immunity or your defenses against the virus.

Would that cut down though on some side effects for people who have experienced those side effects?

FRIEDEN: I do think they're likely to change the dose schedule. It's the case that safety and effectiveness was not rushed. The assessment that these are safe, effective vaccines didn't cut any corners.

But it is the case that figuring out what's called the vaccine schedule is complicated. And it appears that if you lengthen those initial two doses, you get a better response.

And you also may get less of the severe, very rare reactions that generally young males may get with a temporary inflammation around the heart.

Bottom line though is that these vaccines are astonishingly effective. They're preventing deaths. They've already preventing hundreds of thousands of deaths in the U.S., millions of deaths globally.

The tragedy is that we still have more than 50 million adults in this country who haven't gotten their first dose. They're fully approved. Four out of five people have gotten vaccinated.

If you haven't gotten vaccinated or if you're not fully up to date, get vaccinated.

ACOSTA: Just a quick comment from you, Dr. Frieden. Down in Florida, the governor's raising re-election money by attacking Dr. Fauci. For $39 you can buy these "Freedom over Fauci" flip-flops that say, "Fauci can pound sand."

As someone dedicated to public health, what do you make of this, this continued demonization of Dr. Fauci, who has, after all, devoted his entire life to public health and protecting people.

FRIEDEN: I've work directly with Tony Fauci for years, decades, in fact. I worked with him at the height of Ebola when things were really tough.

[16:35:01]

And I've seen Tony to be a deeply ethical person and a deeply nonpartisan person, truly nonpartisan. So it's just disappointing to see how partisan out country has become

that someone who really dedicates his life to not getting involved in politics has become such a political symbol without any effort and every effort on his part not to be that kind of partisan symbol.

ACOSTA: Instead of promoting flip-flops, he should be promoting these vaccines that are helping our fellow persons to get out of this pandemic.

Dr. Tom Frieden, thanks so much for your time. We appreciate it.

FRIEDEN: Thank you.

ACOSTA: Coming up, a disturbing video showing Joe Rogan using the N- word more than 20 times over the years. How the popular podcaster is now responding to the controversy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:40:26]

ACOSTA: President Biden is laying out new steps his administration will take to combat surging violence.

During a visit to NYPD headquarters, the president called on Congress to pass laws and vowed his administration would take action on gun violence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Every day, this country, 316 people are shot, 106 are killed.

And six NYPD officers have been victims of gun violence so far just this year, 64 children injured by gun violence this year, 26 killed.

It's enough. Enough is enough because we know we can do things about this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Mr. Biden visited New York City just one day after a sea of NYPD paid tribute to one of their own. Detective Mora was one of two officers killed last month while responding to a domestic incident in Harlem.

Let's talk about that. I want to bring in New York Congressman Ritchie Torres.

Congressman, thanks so much for joining us. We appreciate it. We know your community is hurting. So we appreciate the time.

The proposals that you're talking about and the administration is talking about include new initiatives by the Justice Department aimed at combatting ghost guns, drug-related violence and so on.

What do you make of these plans? Do they go far enough?

And what about bringing back to the table and trying to get an effort going in Congress to pass new gun safety legislation, background checks, that sort of thing?

REP. RITCHIE TORRES (D-NY): Well, here in New York City, Mayor Adams is making every effort to crush the epidemic of gun violence, but there's a limit to what he can do locally. There's no substitute for federal action.

Most of the guns that are recovered in New York City crime scenes are coming from the south. Are flowing through the Iron Pipeline that extends from the south to the northeast.

And so the federal government has to play a much more aggressive role in dismantling of the Iron Pipeline, which has led to an explosion of guns on the streets of New York.

But one of the greatest challenges where he face to public safety is Republican obstructionism against gun safety.

ACOSTA: And you said that the Defund the Police movement is dead in New York City and good riddance. A lot of people, their eyebrows went up when you said that.

But I think a lot of Democrats agree with you. A lot of Americans agree with you.

Explain why you said that.

TORRES: Since 2017, the murder rate in New York City is up by 60 percent. Shootings in January of 2022 are up by 30 percent compared to the same period last year.

So there's been an explosion of gun violence. And calling for the police department to be defunded during an outbreak of gun violence is a little like calling for the fire department to be defunded during an outbreak of a fire.

It comes off as profoundly tone deaf and out of touch.

The majority of Americans, the majority of Democrats are in favor of reforming rather than abolishing or defunding the police.

What most Americans want is not under-policing or over-policing, but better policing, more constitutional and accountable and transparent policing.

ACOSTA: Here's how FOX's morning show covered the president's visit to New York and his message there.

Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN KILMEADE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I would just think Mark Penn, a Democratic strategist who looks at his numbers.

A guy like James Carville would look at President Biden and just say, hey, to solve this, you can't just mention guns. If you want to get votes, reverse the momentum that's going against their party.

STEVE DOOCY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: The message should have been, I'm Joe Biden and I've come to New York to make things safe. And we're going to start throwing the book at people who break the law. He didn't say that yesterday.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: What's your reaction to that? As you know, when they say things on FOX, then your Republican colleagues in the House start saying the same thing.

What's your reaction?

TORRES: FOX News is living in an alternate reality. There would be no gun violence without guns. It's disingenuous for Republicans to claim to be tough on crime.

If you're soft on guns, you're soft on violent crime because guns are the deadliest drivers of gun violence in America. It's the leading cause of death among teenagers and children.

And there's no evidence that over-policing leads to greater public safety.

From 2011 to 2017, in New York City, we went from 700,000 stops to a mere 12,000 stops. And in that same period of time, we saw a decline in the murder rate by 50 percent.

[16:45:02]

So what we need is not aggressive, abusive policing. We need precision policing combined with reinvestments in underserved communities.

ACOSTA: I want to ask you about something that's come up today involving the matter of race in this country.

Very popular podcaster, Joe Rogan, is now apologizing after videos have surfaced of him using the N-word more than 20 times on various podcasts.

The video we're going to show our viewers is an edited compilation. The slurs are bleeped out. But we want to warn our viewers this is still disturbing to hear.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE ROGAN, PODCASTER, "THE JOE ROGAN EXPERIENCE": You know, the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) thing.

Saying the word (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

I already said (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

Calling you like this boy that he's a (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Starts calling him.

There should be a word like (EXPLETIVE DELETED,) especially like the word (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

He says guy (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

And there and starting saying, (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

Couldn't say (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Now, Congressman, you may have heard a lot of bleeps there so it may have been difficult to figure out what was going on there, but you can pretty much make sense of it by listening to that video.

In his apology, he said it's the most regretful and shameful thing he's ever had to address publicly. He said he has not said this in years. Used that word, in years.

But the singer, Indy Irie, is tweeting #DeleteSpotify.

What are your thoughts on this? Should he lose his job over this kind of language?

TORRES: I've never seen his show, but I'm appalled by the video you showed me.

The N-word is an offensive term with an ugly history. And when you use it as repeatedly as he did, you're not expressing an opinion. You're dehumanizing people of color in this country.

As far as I'm concerned, it's disqualifying and he should be held accountable.

ACOSTA: All right. Congressman Ritch Torres, thank you very much for your time.

Once again, hearts go out to your community in New York and in your district. We know you've been dealing with a lot.

Thanks for your time this evening. Appreciate it.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:51:47]

ACOSTA: Breaking news into CNN. A Moroccan boy who was trapped in a well for four days has died. The 5-year-old boy was retrieved a short time ago but he did not survive.

CNN Journalist Al Goodman is following the latest.

Al, this is heartbreaking news coming out of reports in Morocco. Just awful. We were all hoping for a good outcome. What more can you tell us?

AL GOODMAN, CNN JOURNALIST: Hi, Jim. The king of Morocco called it a tragic accident, according to a statement from the Moroccan royal palace.

The king called the parents of the 5-year-old boy. The boy's name was Ryan. The king calling them to offer his condolences.

And this call coming, according to state media reports, after it was seen that the boy was pulled out by the rescuers. Although, it's not clear -- it's not immediately clear, the authorities haven't said what the boy's condition was at the moment he was pulled out.

We do know, Jim, as we've talked earlier this afternoon, that it was just over four days that he was down that hundred-foot-deep well. He fell down on tuesday afternoon local time in northern Morocco in this rugged area around the rift mountains.

He was finally pulled out on Saturday evening around 9:30 p.m. But despite the efforts of all the rescue workers, which the authorities also thanked for all of their efforts, this was not to be.

It was technically a very, very difficult operation. The well itself was just over a foot and a half wide in diameter so you really couldn't get people down there the shorts authorities said.

They ended up digging down a parallel hole going down there and then tried to go horizontally across.

It took time. They had to go meticulously. They ran into landslides, boulders, other technical issues. And they didn't get to him in time.

The boy had been alive on Friday, according to authorities. And on Thursday, two days ago, food and water had gotten to him, according to his father, who hoped the boy could be rescued. God willing, the father said -- Jim?

ACOSTA: Just a -- just an awful story. So very sad to hear that he didn't make it.

Al, just very quickly. You mentioned there were some landslides. Might that have been what occurred? And I guess ended all hope for this little boy?

GOODMAN: Well, those had come up -- the report of the landslides, Jim, had been earlier in the operation.

Basically, there was a lot of optimism Saturday around the scene as the rescuers had given out to state media and reporters on the scene there in Morocco that they were getting very, very close.

They had talked about the number of feet that were still left to go down, just a few feet down, and about five or six feet over to get to the boy.

So they were quite optimistic it seemed earlier this day. But then, obviously, that mood changed and the outcome was not good -- Jim?

ACOSTA: Just terrible. So sad.

Al Goodman, appreciate the update. Thank you.

[16:54:52]

Coming up, he made history as the first black quarterback to win the Super Bowl. What Doug Williams thinks about the new lawsuit claiming racial discrimination by NFL teams when it comes to black coaches.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: You were live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

[16:59:52]

We begin with controversial podcaster, Joe Rogan, apologizing again. This time, after videos resurfaced of him using the N-word more than 20 times on his podcast.

The video was posted by Patriot Takes, an organization that aims to expose extremism on the far right.

It's an edited compilation of different podcast episodes.