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U.S. Troops Arrive In Poland Amid Russia-Ukraine Tensions; Interview With Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-CA) About Mike Pence And The January 6th Investigation; Man Charged In Armed Kidnapping Of Michael Bloomberg's Employee; Xavier Becerra Fights Back On Notion He's Been Irrelevant As HHS Secretary; Team USA Wins Its First Medal Of Beijing 2020 Winter Olympics. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired February 06, 2022 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:36]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

We begin with a dire warning from two U.S. officials. Russian President Vladimir Putin now has 70 percent of the troops and weapons in place for a full-scale invasion of Ukraine. These are new satellite images of a massive Russian troop buildup inside Belarus, a strong Russian ally which also borders Ukraine. Short-range missiles, fighter jets and attack helicopters. Russia and Belarus are about to conduct military training together but not near the border.

Also in Eastern Europe today more U.S. Airborne infantry troops. The first elements of a 3,000-strong deployment ordered by President Biden. Their mission, to bolster NATO allies Poland and Romania. This show of support coinciding with a sobering assessment from U.S. intelligence saying the human cost of a Russian invasion could be tens of thousands of civilian casualties and up to five million refugees.

One estimate says Ukraine's capital city of Kyiv might fall in 48 hours if Putin were to unleash his full military power. The big question is, will he or won't he? U.S. officials still don't know if Putin has made a final decision to invade and asked if there's anything in particular Putin is looking for before making that decision, President Biden said, quote, "Things he cannot get."

CNN's Nic Robertson is in Moscow.

Nic, these assessments from the U.S. are chilling, and yet Ukraine is saying don't believe these apocalyptic predictions. They've had this sort of more casual posture for weeks now. Why is that?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes. President Zelensky has a number of things to do. And I think it's worth kind of reflecting on the fact that he grew up in Ukraine and is used to the way that, you know, President Putin handles himself, you know, pretty much as the street thugs in the city where he grew up handled themselves which is, you know, to try to beat on the little guy.

He doesn't want to show fear. He doesn't want to give Putin that advantage. It's an advantage when it comes to negotiations, when it comes to Putin wanting to get his way. He's very aware that there's a lot at stake here for Ukraine, obviously, with or without an invasion. And that if there is going to be some compromise, that, you know, there's a real potential here that Ukraine could be the loser on it.

He's been promised that's not going to happen. That he'll be at the big table for any big discussions about Ukraine's future. So there's all of that going on in the background, but there are multiple other layers to this as well. Look, if he becomes a panic monger in his own country, he's going to scare his population. Some people may take flight, you know, become refugees in other countries. It will hurt the economy. It'll hurt investment.

And he knows that this could go on for a long time. They've been living with it, you know, Russian troops on his border, even he believes, in his country supporting the separatists in the east. So he's been living with it for a long time. And his message seems to be working. Clarissa Ward, our correspondent, visited the front lines there and people who live near the front lines, none of them in Ukraine really seem particularly worried and expecting a major attack coming soon.

So he's steadying of his population. I think, look, he's quite well aware what could happen, but this is -- you know, it's his position to stand up to Putin in whatever way he can, Military, that's -- the odds are not good, but short of Putin putting his military across the border, Zelensky wants to be able to stand there and look him in the eye and get the best he can out of all the pressure that's bearing down on him right now, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right, Nic Robertson, it's a guessing game at this point to some extent. All right, thanks very much. We appreciate that report from Nic Robertson.

Joining me now, former Defense secretary Leon Panetta. He also previously served as CIA director under President Obama and White House chief of staff under President Clinton.

Secretary Panetta, great see you as always. This idea that Russia already has 70 percent of the military capabilities in place for a full-scale invasion of Ukraine and that intelligence estimates -- are coming in saying that the capital city of Ukraine would fall within 48 hours. I mean, that is alarming stuff, but yet at the same time I can't make heads or tails of why Ukraine isn't more in a state of panic about this or alarmed about this? How alarmed are you?

[16:05:01]

LEON PANETTA, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: Well, I think it's a dangerous moment, and I think whether you're Ukrainian or American or for that matter a citizen anywhere in the world, this is a dangerous moment in the 21st century. Why? Because Russia continues to add fuel to the fire, and the more they continue to build up their military forces, the more likely that a spark will set off that fire and create a war that nobody wants. But that's what makes this a dangerous moment, and I think is Zelensky

understands danger. He's trying to keep his people up so they believe that some kind of diplomatic solution could be arrived at but everything points to the real possibility of war.

ACOSTA: And as you know, U.S. officials alleged this week that Russia could be planning to release some sort of fake attack, a video of a fake attack against them as a pretext for an invasion. In the meantime, we just saw these images of Putin and China's President Xi Jinping looking very cozy at the Olympics.

What do you make of all of these developments? And, you know, one of the questions that I have about all of this is, you know, from your standpoint as a former Defense secretary, the United States putting troops into Eastern Europe, into that theater, in the middle of all of this. Is that a good idea?

PANETTA: Well, you know, there are two positions going on here. One is the Russian position, which is a military action, a military threat to invade a sovereign country. And the United States and our allies have taken another position, which is to try to stress deterrence and the fact that Russia will pay a very heavy price if they decide on military action and diplomacy in the hope that they'll be willing to sit down and negotiate a peaceful solution.

Russia is going to try to get the support of another autocrat in China, President Xi. I think frankly President Xi is putting his own country at risk here because if in fact Putin decides to go to war and creates the consequences that both intelligence and others are saying will happen, then make no mistake about, Xi will bear part of the responsibility for what's happened.

ACOSTA: And let's talk about the January 6th investigation now, as we mentioned earlier, you were once a White House chief of staff many lifetimes ago, many points in your career ago, but I'd like to hear your reaction to some of this reporting from the "Washington Post" that Trump was constantly ripping up important documents when he was in the White House, and that his staffers would decide amongst themselves which should be taped back together again. You know, which ones would be tossed into burn bags and I guess incinerated over at the Pentagon. I mean, this is -- this is crazy stuff.

PANETTA: You know, we're talking about Putin, not recognizing any international rules. Not following any of the standards that we would believe would be the case in the civilized world and basically threatening to invade a sovereign country, claiming that it's part of Russia. Crazy stuff. And yet we're hearing the same thing here in the United States from what Trump did.

Trump basically was ignoring the rule of law, ignoring the Constitution, ignoring all of the requirements of being a president. Presidents are not supposed to destroy documents in the White House. They're not supposed to obviously tell a vice president that he can basically call an election in violation of our Constitution. And yet that, in many ways, is what this country is dealing with as well.

ACOSTA: Right. We have our own autocrat-wannabe down in Mar-a-Lago.

Today on "Face the Nation" Senator Marco Rubio was asked if he agreed with Mike Pence, you alluded to this just a few moments ago, when he said Trump was wrong on Friday about former vice president having the power to overturn the election and here was Rubio's response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARGARET BRENNAN, MODERATOR, FACE THE NATION: Do you agree with Mike Pence?

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): Well, if President Biden runs for re-election I believe he would defeat Joe Biden, and I don't want Kamala Harris to have the power as vice president to overturn that election and I don't -- that's the same thing that I concluded back in January of 2021.

BRENNAN: So Donald Trump was wrong?

RUBIO: Well, as I said, I just don't think the vice president has that power because if the vice president has that power --

BRENNAN: Right.

RUBIO: -- Donald Trump would defeat Joe Biden in four years or two years and then Kamala Harris can decide not to overturn the election. I don't want to wind up there.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

[16:10:09]

ACOSTA: How is that such a hard question to answer, do you think?

PANETTA: I think Republicans have twisted themselves into a position that makes it very difficult for them to basically speak the truth, and, you know, I think Senator Rubio should have just said that the vice president was correct, that no vice president can declare who the president of the United States is. That is the truth. And I think Republicans, if they frankly would take a stand for the truth of what our Constitution says, that they would be in much better shape politically than trying somehow to use contorted logic in order to defend Trump.

ACOSTA: Yes. And it's just painful to watch. All right, Leon Panetta, always great to see you. Thanks so much as always and of course we'll be back in touch about this very volatile situation in Ukraine. Thanks for your expertise, as always.

PANETTA: Good. Good to be with you, Jim.

ACOSTA: Much appreciated.

Coming up, we watched him publicly rebuke his former boss. But will former Vice President Mike Pence be called to testify about Trump and the insurrection? I'll ask a key member of the January 6th Committee, next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:15:39]

ACOSTA: Exactly 13 months after a pro-Trump mob stormed the Capitol and interrupted the peaceful transfer of power all eyes are on former Vice President Mike Pence wondering whether he would cooperate with the January 6th Committee if asked. Pence's former chief of staff who recently testified before the committee himself thinks the prospects are unlikely.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARC SHORT, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: I think that would be a pretty unprecedented step for the committee to take. It would be, I think, very difficult for me to see that scenario unfolding. I think it's very different to subpoena former vice president to talk about private conversations he had with the president of the United States. It's never happened before.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: The speculation has intensified because Pence publicly rebuked his ex-boss in a speech on Friday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: President Trump is wrong. I had no right to overturn the election. Frankly, there is no idea more un-American than the notion that any one person could choose the American president.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And here to discuss is Democratic congresswoman on the January 6th Committee, Zoe Lofgren of California.

Congresswoman, great to see you. Thanks as always for being with us. The committee likes to have full agreement on big issues. What do you think of the former vice president's recent speech? Does it move the needle in terms of asking him formally to come and meet with the January 6th Committee? What were your thoughts when you saw that speech? Did you think, OK, let's bring him in?

REP. ZOE LOFGREN (D-CA): I don't think it had any impact on whether we would bring him in or not. I agree with what he said obviously. The vice president in the Constitution is not allowed to select the next president. But the issue for the committee is getting all the facts and we've said from the beginning we will seek testimony from anyone if we need it.

The question is, do we need his testimony? We have received substantial testimony that may make that unnecessary, but we're sorting through it. I heard Mr. Short's comment that, you know, we wouldn't want to ask him about his conversations with the president. It's not clear that that would be off the table, but clearly the conversations that the vice president had with Professor Eastman and others are of interest but we find out everything we need to know from other sources.

So we're sorting through that. We don't want to go off on side diversions. Obviously, some requests or subpoenas result in litigation. That takes time, and we're trying to get this done as efficiently as possible.

ACOSTA: And as you know, CNN reported that the committee has records showing that Congressman Jim Jordan was on the phone with Trump for 10 minutes on the morning of January 6th. This weekend Congressman Matt Gaetz detailed meeting with Pence to convince him to reverse the election. Let's listen to a bit of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): I remember my last meeting with Mike Pence. It was before January 6th. It was in the White House. We were there talking, not about insurrection and overthrowing the government, but about the substantive arguments that we believed would prevail in debate much like Peter Navarro has laid out on this program and also the substantive arguments that we thought would be persuasive to state legislatures who are looking for a signal to take more aggressive action to not maintain the fiction of elections that were not run fairly.

And I knew then that he was not going to show a great deal of boldness before the Congress. We put forward arguments and affidavits and evidence. We showed him videos. We were in the Cabinet room meeting with Mike Pence in the days leading up to January 6th and I left quite disappointed that he was not motivated by our argument.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: You know, Congresswoman, I mean, what's helpful about those comments there, it's a lot to sort through and listen to, but he seems to be painting the picture of this pressure campaign that was applied to the vice president at the time. And it seems clearly Jordan and Gaetz have critical firsthand knowledge of events taking place leading up to January 6th and on the morning of January 6th. Are subpoenas in play for those two gentlemen?

[16:20:02]

LOFGREN: Well, let me just say the call records from -- that we got from the National Archives are voluminous. I mean, most Americans may not realize that every call made from the White House is logged, who was called, how long did it take. Every single person who goes into the Oval Office and out is noted, how long did they stay, who were they?

I mean, it's a complete record of everything about the president's activities. You know, not in the private residences but in the West Wing, the official section. So there's a lot of information. There are a lot of questions and we hope to get to the bottom of them. We have, as you know, invited our colleague from Ohio to come in and

talk to us, and I think as information continues to come forward through other sources, he may feel a need to come forward and tell his side of the story. Obviously, you know, there are logical inferences that can be made and certainly Mr. Gaetz has outlined his role in essentially trying to overthrow a legitimate election which is very disappointing.

ACOSTA: And so would you like to have Matt Gaetz come in? Do you think that might be necessary?

LOFGREN: Well, I don't know. I mean, certainly what could he add to what he's already just said in public?

ACOSTA: Well, that's true.

LOFGREN: I can't think of anything more damning than that.

ACOSTA: And as part of your investigation received documents from the National Archives that had been ripped up and taped together, is that right? We're hearing reporting in the "Washington Post" that Trump ripped up all sorts of documents and that is staff would decide amongst themselves what would be saved, what would not be saved, and sent off to the incinerator, I suppose. That's what the "Washington Post" is reporting.

We often we hear in Washington, D.C. it's not the crime, it's the cover-up. Are you concerned that you need a cover-up investigation in addition to the investigation into January 6th?

LOFGREN: No. We're focused on January 6th and the events leading up to it. If there is a violation of law, that's for the Department of Justice. We're a legislative committee trying to get the truth and also to inform ourselves about what legislative or administrative actions we should take.

It does violate the requirements of the law to rip up official documents in the White House. You know, I haven't seen all of it, but some of the material actually was pasted back together in the archives. So it wasn't all a matter of discretion on the part of the White House aides.

ACOSTA: So some Archives folks taped things back together?

LOFGREN: It looks like it, yes.

ACOSTA: They got bags of pieces of documents and -- or something like that?

LOFGREN: I don't know all the details.

ACOSTA: OK.

LOFGREN: I don't know all the details. But, you know, it's not the way you're supposed to act, but small surprise. You know, the former president acted in many ways that were not the way presidents are required to act under the law.

ACOSTA: And very quickly, before we go, there was talk a couple of weeks ago of potential outtakes of that video Trump that had taped on January 6th. Any update on that? Do those outtakes exist or has it been ruled out that they don't exist?

LOFGREN: I can't give you an update on that yet but I will say that volumes of materials continue to flow in to the committee from the Archives and it's very important. It's a lot of stuff. We did ask that additional staff be put on the job, and I think the Archives have stepped up their efforts. I mean, I'm not critical of them. They have only so much ordinary effort, but they do realize there is time limits to this and they're putting in the maximum effort. And we appreciate that.

ACOSTA: All right. Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren, thank you so much. We appreciate it. Good luck on finding those tapes and the pieces of paper. All right.

LOFGREN: Thank you. Thanks a lot.

ACOSTA: Thanks, Congresswoman.

All right, coming up, Michael Bloomberg's housekeeper. This is a bizarre story. Rescued after being kidnapped at gunpoint by a man who rammed his way into the billionaire's estate. How police later found them at a hotel using an iPad. Baffling story, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:29:02]

ACOSTA: We're learning new details today about the dramatic kidnapping of an employee who works for billionaire Michael Bloomberg. Police say a man broke into Bloomberg's Colorado estate armed with a rifle demanding to know the whereabouts of Bloomberg's two daughters. Ultimately the suspect forced the employee to drive him out of state all the way to a motel in Wyoming.

What you're looking at is the moment police stormed the building to rescue her.

CNN's Camila Bernal is following the story for us. Camilla, this is such a strange story. What is the latest?

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Jim. It really is a bizarre story, and authorities saying that when they got to that motel after the SWAT team came in and arrested Joseph Beecher, he was found with an AR-15 and a handgun. Thankfully that employee was OK and of course that's what everybody was hoping for.

But let's start from the beginning. This all happened on Wednesday at about 10:15 in the morning. And we're getting a lot of this information from court documents that we have reviewed and they say that according to the surveillance video this man got to the ranch, saw the gate, got out, then went back into his truck and that's when he rammed into that gate to get into the ranch.

[16:30:10]

When he got in he found this employee and according to the interview, the employee obviously telling police that he was heavily armed and threatening to shoot her face off. Then she said that he was going on rants about Bloomberg and asking for his daughters. Then he realized that the Bloombergs were not at the ranch and that's when he asked her to get into her truck and drive him around.

That's exactly what she did. They had to get gas, but she told authorities that at the gas station he told her that if she asked for help he would shoot everyone at the gas station including her. Then they needed cash so they went to an ATM. And she tried to mouthed the words "help me" because she said, you know, maybe they will see this video and come to help me.

But it wasn't that, that eventually led to the rescue. It was an iPad because authorities were tracking that iPad. And that's how they found them in the motel in Wyoming. And so that's what led to this SWAT team arriving to the motel.

Now, we know he's facing a number of charges including federal kidnapping charges. These are very serious charges. We're still waiting to hear who his attorney is, but, Jim, we did hear from a spokesperson representing Michael Bloomberg saying that they're thankful to the authorities and of course thankful that this employee returned to her family safely -- Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. Camila Bernal, thank you very much for that update.

Coming up, a CNN exclusive. Sources revealing growing frustration with the Health and Human Services secretary and his hands-off approach during the COVID-19 pandemic.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:36:20]

ACOSTA: And we're back with a CNN exclusive. President Biden's Health and Human Services Secretary Xavier Becerra is looking for a reboot after being hit with accusations that he's largely been absent during a once-in-a-century pandemic.

We've just learned he'll travel with the first lady to Minnesota this Wednesday to talk about investments in child care. It comes as sources tell CNN the administration is trying to bulk up his role acknowledging that he has never appeared at a White House press briefing or even had a substantive meeting with the president he serves.

Still, some White House officials remain skeptical as to whether Becerra is actually up to the bigger task with no prior frontline health care experience.

Joining me now to talk about this is senior reporter Isaac Dovere who spoke with Becerra exclusively as part of this reporting.

Isaac, you know, it seems strange to say that the nation's top health official would not have been in a White House briefing up until this point on this pandemic. You actually talked with Becerra about all of this including as well as officials inside the White House, inside the administration. Explain how all of this came about. I mean, how is it that Becerra has had sort of this -- sort of, I don't know, secondary role?

EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

ACOSTA: You know, on the sidelines.

DOVERE: Some of it goes back to the Trump administration and President Biden wanting to have a very different approach, putting the scientists and the doctors forward. Anthony Fauci, Rochelle Walensky. Becerra was also delayed in his confirmation by a couple of months because Senate Republicans were after him because he's not a doctor, even though there've only been I think three prior health secretaries who were doctors. And that put him behind the ball in getting involved in the dynamics about dealing with COVID.

But it has also put him in the situation where now a lot of blame has been laid on him for not knowing what's going on, not being a part of it, when it was structured so that he wasn't part of it. What you see now is the White House moving very swiftly after a bunch of bad stories that Becerra has received to change that perception. I'm told that President Biden himself called Secretary Becerra on Friday and said, I've got your back. I like the job that you're doing. We're going to get you more involved with everything.

ACOSTA: As you were working on this story, Isaac, you know, total coincidence, I'm sure. But, you know, the other thing that is interesting about your story, Isaac, is that you're finding out that Becerra was not Biden's first choice for this position? That also doesn't do wonders for a secretary's confidence in dealing with something as important as COVID.

DOVERE: Yes, look, Xavier Becerra was a longtime congressman from California then he was a California attorney general appointed to fill the spot that Kamala Harris' was in when she was elected to the Senate in 2016.

ACOSTA: Well qualified.

DOVERE: Qualified absolutely. And he was interested in maybe being attorney general in the Biden administration. The Biden folks weren't really looking at him for that. And then they were looking at Gina Raimondo, then the governor of Rhode Island, thinking maybe she is the pick.

Then they recoiled form that a little bit when they thought they needed to deal with Latino pushback. That there weren't enough Latinas in the Biden cabinet. And that there was maybe some progressive distaste with Raimondo who seems more business minded, and so they moved away from Raimondo. And from the way I've been told that even the day before Becerra was

announced he did not know that he was in the running for this job.

ACOSTA: Amazing. And what did Becerra have to say about all this?

DOVERE: Well, look, he says he wants to be a big part of this administration and that he has been doing a lot of work. You look at things that HHS has been involved in. It's been the operational arm of the COVID response.

But one of the things that I think was really important that he said to me is that the doctors and the scientists have been talking about what to do when all these guidelines and the confusion that's there is real, he acknowledged, and that sometimes you need to have a sense of what's not getting through to people because if they don't understand it they're not following it.

[16:40:04]

And he says part of his role going forward is helping people understand what they should be doing so that they're following that guidance.

ACOSTA: All right. Very interesting. Isaac, I suspect we're going to see a lot more of Secretary Becerra in the coming days.

DOVERE: Seems like it.

ACOSTA: Suddenly becoming more visible. Great reporting as always.

DOVERE: Thank you.

ACOSTA: Thanks a lot, Isaac. Appreciate it.

And joining me now to talk about this, Dr. Johnathan Reiner, a CNN medical analyst. He's a professor of medicine and surgery at George Washington University, previously advised the Bush White House.

Dr. Reiner, what do you make of this reporting we just heard from Isaac that Secretary Becerra had this hands-off approach with the pandemic, perhaps intentionally built that way by the Biden administration, it sure sounds that way, and that he's trying to reboot his image?

Should we really have all of these sort of administrative, you know, moving things around, you know, politically when it comes to responding to this pandemic? I mean, it seems to me your HHS secretary should be front and center leading the charge.

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Right. The problem is that Secretary Becerra was the wrong choice for the job from the beginning. So remember, HHS is the umbrella agency for CDC, and NIH, and CMS and FDA, and the pop-up health service. So basically every entity of this government that we have utilized to fight the singular pandemic of the last century is being run by somebody with no experience in health. You know, he's an attorney, former congressman, former attorney

general as you said, but you would think that at this particular time when these organizations, first of all, sometimes were feuding, often were miscommunicating with each other and the American people, you would have a leader of that department that has a sense for how all these pieces work in real life. Doesn't have to necessarily be a physician, but somebody that has run either a major medical enterprise or has worked within health, you know, throughout their career.

But Secretary Becerra has absolutely no experience. And it's not just that he's kept a low profile, it's been basically that he's been in the witness protection program. He's been completely absent. He was the wrong choice, and frankly, the administration really does suffer from having a lack of coordination now.

ACOSTA: And let's shift gears to Joe Rogan. You and I have talked about Joe Rogan on this program. The podcaster, he's been in the news a lot lately for COVID misinformation and just recently for some overtly racist comments that he's had to apologize for that came to light in recent days. But some surprising video has also surfaced showing there was once a time when he railed against anti-vaxxers.

I think a lot of folks who listen to his program might find this interesting. This is from March of 2020. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE ROGAN, "THE JOE ROGAN" PODCAST HOST: I hope this wakes people up to the value of vaccines, too. There are so many wackos out there that think that vaccines are, you know, a scam or they're dangerous, or it's -- there are so many people out there that won't vaccinate their children.

DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, EPIDEMIOLOGIST: Thank you for what you do say about vaccines because people listen to you and we need every positive voice because we have so many crazy voices out there right now that are so --

ROGAN: They are so paranoid.

OSTERHOLM: Yes.

ROGAN: And they're delusional and they want it all to be a conspiracy. There's been an amazing medical innovation in human culture and that's vaccines. It's amazing what it's done, and have there been adverse effects on people? Of course. Everything, everything that people do. There's some people that are going to react in a bad way. It doesn't mean it's not a positive thing.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: That's a remarkable piece of video given how much Joe Rogan has pushed on the anti-vax rant. You know, I mean, he has really caused a lot of vaccine hesitancy I think because of, you know, alternative, you know, cures for COVID and so on that haven't been borne out by scientists and experts in your field and so on. What do you think? Does Rogan need a truth booster here? What's going on?

REINER: Well, you wonder now whether over the last couple of years he read the room so to speak and looked at his subscribers and basically has been telling them what they want to hear. And that he's made a calculation based on subscriptions about what to broadcast to the people who listen to his show. But the truth is that people do listen to him, and the truth is that this country, in this country one in five adults particularly young adults have chosen not to get vaccinated.

And because so many people have not been vaccinated, our hospitals have been packed for the last several months, and we've had about 300,000 unnecessary deaths since last June. Joe Rogan is not, you know, the only person responsible for this. Certainly FOX News has played an enormous role in this as well, but people who propagate anti-vax myths do have a lot of blame.

[16:45:11]

There is a lot of blame to be placed on their laps. Certainly Mr. Rogan has perpetuated this.

ACOSTA: Yes. It is remarkable to see him talking about vaccines back in 2020 at beginning of all of this.

REINER: Yes.

ACOSTA: And to put that up against what he has said ever since. It's just absolutely remarkable.

Let's talk about the L.A. mayor, Eric Garcetti. He is defending a maskless photo he took alongside Magic Johnson during an NFL playoff game last week. As you know, in L.A. County masks are required indoors at large events except when eating and drinking. Garcetti tried to explain the photo. This is what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR ERIC GARCETTI (D), LOS ANGELES: I wore my mask the entire game and when people ask for a photograph, I hold my breath and I put it here and people could see that. There's a zero percent chance of infection from that.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: What do you make of this, Dr. Reiner? I mean, you know, it's tough because you go to a sporting event, you know, or at your restaurant, you do that take the mask off, you do eat and drink. And I suppose at any moments somebody could get the phone out, take the picture and say, uh-huh, there you go. What do you think?

REINER: Sort of reminds me of when former President Clinton admitted to smoking marijuana but not inhaling. You know, this is actually -- there was an interesting column in the "Times" this weekend by Ezra Klein. He was referencing a study out of Lancet that sought to understand why different countries have had such different responses in terms of preventing infections or preventing deaths.

And one of the most important determinants of how a country has performed has to do with the confidence that the people have in their government. And, you know, places like in Denmark or northern Europe where people have had a better trust in their government, infection rates are lower than in countries where that's not the case. And the United States, you know, we've seen time and time again, you know, our leaders not emulating, not modeling the kind of behavior that science has shown will reduce infections.

So when we see our leaders talking about how it's important to wear a mask at an event and then they're photographed not wearing masks at events it erodes public confidence in government and we've suffered from that from the beginning, from the very beginning when the former president of the United States refused to be photographed in public wearing a mask. Time and time again we've seen this. It's actually pretty destructive.

ACOSTA: Right.

REINER: I wish he would just simply say, you know, I've made a mistake. I took my mask off.

ACOSTA: Exactly. And that's the problem. The problem is, is that when, you know, a politician like that is caught doing something like that, after talking up masks and saying people should wear a mask is that it arms the other side with, you know, a moment where they can say, uh- huh. See? These guys don't abide by their own rules.

All right, Dr. Jonathan Reiner, great to see you as always. Thanks so much.

REINER: My pleasure.

ACOSTA: And coming up, Team USA picks up its first medal of the Winter Games. CNN's Coy Wire is there.

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Hey, Jim, here at the Beijing 2022 Olympic Games, we have one nation winning their first ever Winter Olympic gold and the first Americans pulling in medals as well. We'll tell you who, coming up.

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[16:52:55]

ACOSTA: At the Beijing Olympic Games concerns are swirling around the security and safety of the U.S. athletes and their rights to free speech. The U.S. ambassador to the United Nations addressed those concerns on CNN earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LINDA THOMAS GREENFIELD, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: I can reassure U.S. athletes that the United States government will be standing with them in China and we will be there to protect them. (END OF VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: This as the athletes focus on their events and of course bringing home some hardware.

CNN's Coy Wire has latest on the second day of the games where Team USA just picked up its first medal -- Coy.

WIRE: Hi, Jim. I was there to see the women's snowboard slopestyle final. Great energy. Music playing throughout. The course was huge. Had a replica of the Great Wall of China for the athletes to go soaring over. 24-year-old pride of Westport, Connecticut, Julia Marino, putting the United States on the medal table first. After an 11th place finish in her Olympics debut four years ago she pulls off some upsets and will be taking home a silver medal.

It was 20-year-old Zoi Sadowski-Synnott, though, for the big win giving New Zealand its first ever Winter Olympic gold. And the celebration afterwards, Jim, perfect. The silver and bronze medalists all of the competitors sprinting out, running out, tackling and piling on. An awesome display of sportsmanship and snowboard culture.

The defending Olympic champion U.S. women's hockey team continuing to dominate here in Beijing. A perfect 3-0. Hilary Knight starting off the scoring party against Switzerland. Three goals in just over two minutes into the first period there for Team USA. An 8-0 thumping, setting up an epic clash with Canada for their final game in preliminary play. And we asked the team ahead of the games, Jim, about this rivalry.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILARY KNIGHT, FORWARD, TEAM USA WOMEN'S HOCKEY TEAM: The U.S. and Canada is I describe it as one of the most beautiful rivalries in sport. I don't think anything else matches it.

ABBY ROQUE, FORWARD, TEAM USA WOMEN'S HOCKEY TEAM: It's competitive, it's fast. It's hard core. You get to hit and grind and makes unbelievable plays and they're always close.

[16:55:04]

JOEL JOHNSON, HEAD COACH, TEAM USA WOMEN'S HOCKEY TEAM: You've got two, you know, rivals who play the game the right way, who treat each other the right way, and who want to beat each other so badly that it's just a privilege to be a part of.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

WIRE: All right. Jim, Team USA has outscored their opponents 18-2 so far here. They edged out Canada in the final of the last Olympic Games so the neighbors to the north want revenge. It is going to be absolutely awesome to see.

ACOSTA: All right, thanks, Coy. Go USA. And coming up, Russia amassing troops near Ukraine's border as we get

a dire warning about how quickly the Ukrainian capital could fall if there is a full-scale invasion.

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