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Xavier Becerra Fights Back Skepticism As HHS Secretary Amid Pandemic; As U.S. And Allies Warn Of Invasion, Ukraine Downplays Danger; SEAL Candidate's Death After "Hell Week" Under Investigation; Pence Aide Says Snake Oil Salesmen Advised Trump On 2020 Election; RNC Censures Representatives Cheney and Kinzinger For January 6 Committee Service. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired February 06, 2022 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Eight years from now, a controlled reentry is supposed to put it here as you see on your screen, a remote part of the Pacific Ocean called Point Nemo. It is the farthest point from land on the planet and used as a space debris graveyard.

Well, instead of building a replacement, NASA plans to help private companies build commercially-operated space platforms. Russia has already made plans to leave the ISS project in 2025 and build its own space station. China expects to have its own station fully operational by the end of this year.

Your next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts now.

I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. First on CNN, President Biden's Health and Human Services secretary is in the firing line tonight as critics blast him for being absent during the pandemic. What he's saying.

Meantime, more U.S. troops arriving in Eastern Europe to bolster American allies against possible Russian aggression.

Training tragedy. The Navy identifies a SEAL candidate who died during its rigorous hell week. Ex-Navy SEAL and war hero Jason Redman joins us live.

And Mike Pence's former chief of staff Marc Short blaming Trump's attempt to steal the election on his inner circle.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARC SHORT, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: The president had many bad advisers who were basically snake-oil salesman.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM on this Sunday. Great to have you along with us tonight, and we begin with a CNN exclusive.

President Biden's Health and Human Services Secretary Xavier Becerra is looking for a reboot. That is after being hit with accusation that he's been largely absent during this once in a century pandemic. Sources tell CNN the Biden administration is trying to beef up Becerra's role. They acknowledge he has yet to appear at a White House press briefing and has yet to have a substantive meeting with the president he serves.

CNN's senior reporter Isaac Dovere spoke exclusively to Becerra himself as part of this reporting.

Isaac, it's quite remarkable to realize that the nation's top health official has never appeared at a White House briefing but the sources you talked to said part of the problem here is Becerra has taken a very hands-off approach. Tell us more.

EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Well, another part of the problem here is that the structure the Biden administration built was actually built around the healthy secretary, Anthony Fauci, Rochelle Walensky, were put forward by the Biden administration on order from the president to put the scientists and the doctors forward.

You also had White House Task Force on COVID that was structured to run most of what was going on and Becerra, though he is the health secretary, though Fauci and Walensky and a lot of other people who work on the pandemic work for him, was put in a not decision-making capacity for a lot of things, but in an operational, executing capacity. And that has put him behind on the way the pandemic is being run over the course of the last year.

BROWN: And your sources tell you that Becerra was not Biden's first choice for the job and that his appointment was pretty haphazard. What happened?

DOVERE: Well, yes, look, go back to the transition after Biden won and Xavier Becerra, he's a longtime California congressman, had been the California attorney general, he was interested in perhaps being the attorney general in the administration for Biden. That was not something that the Biden transition folks were looking too seriously at. They were looking at Gina Raimondo, then the governor of Rhode Island, to be health secretary and were very interested in that.

And then they responded to some pushback about not having enough Latinos in the Cabinet and also some push back from progressive groups thinking that Raimondo was maybe too business-minded, too much of a centrist to be in that position as healthy secretary. And they very quickly turned to Becerra and said that they wanted him on the job and Raimondo of course ended up as Commerce secretary.

BROWN: Wow. That's so interesting to learn that backstory. So what does President Biden think about all this? Does he still have confidence in the member of his Cabinet? Is there anything else that Becerra has said about all this?

DOVERE: Well, look, Becerra and I talked for 20 minutes over Zoom. He's working remotely still mostly, and he says that he feels good about the path ahead and building up to more. I can also report to you, Pam, that on Friday, President Biden, aware of what Secretary Becerra has been growing through and the shots he's been taking publicly called him from the Oval Office to say I've got your back, I'm pleased with the job you're doing.

So very strong measure of confidence from the president and we just learned this afternoon that Secretary Becerra will be going with the first lady on Wednesday, to Minnesota, for a trip to talk about COVID. So you see a very clear effort from the administration to put Becerra more front and center than he has been to this point.

BROWN: Isaac Dovere, excellent reporting as always. We appreciate it.

DOVERE: Thank you.

[19:05:03]

BROWN: And joining me with more on this reporting, primary care physician and public health specialist, Dr. Saju Mathew.

Hi, Dr. Mathew. What is your reaction to Isaac's story that Xavier Becerra wasn't Biden's first choice and that he lacks frontline medical experience to hold the job?

DR. SAJU MATHEW, PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIAN, PUBLIC HEALTH SPECIALIST: Yes, listen, Pamela, if I am Secretary of Health Becerra tonight sitting on the couch I would be thanking God that Biden is giving me another chance. You know, I've worked with a lot of leaders, I worked with CDC before. There are different leadership styles and I think his style is more of being in the background.

Initially when they picked him I was a bit skeptical because he's not a scientist. He doesn't necessarily have this tremendous wealth of experience in the healthcare field, but I thought that would be a plus, and a couple of things that really kind of made me a little suspect of what he was doing was with the roll-out with that isolation guideline when CDC said we're cutting it down to five days.

I mean he should have been forefront going on all of these interviews trying to sort of send that messaging, the correct messaging out there, and he really should be a buffer for the CDC, and I think that Dr. Walensky has taken a lot of the criticism, but his role and his department's role should be as a buffer. I think he's going to step it up moving forward, and I'm sure he's glad that he's getting a second chance.

BROWN: And I'm curious, you know, you had clearly been watching this closely. Before this reporting, had you noted that Becerra had not appeared at a White House press briefing?

MATHEW: One hundred percent, Pamela. You know, especially, it's not fair to compare him to his predecessors but think about the other people in his same position how they were on every weekend show, every interview out there talking about the pandemic, and I kept wondering, you know, where is our secretary of health? Especially after his confirmation, if I'm not mistaken, he hasn't really been seen in the limelight and that is absolutely not the right type of message to portray, especially when there's so much misunderstanding and misinformation with the pandemic.

BROWN: So I want to ask you about this new Monmouth poll that's out and it is showing that while Americans continue to be concerned about the spread of COVID, the vast majority, 70 percent, say it is time to accept it as a part of life. How do you respond to that?

MATHEW: Well, I'll be honest with you, Pamela, I've been tweeting about this all week and I am definitely discouraged by any analyst who say listen, it's time to lift mask mandates. The reason is because of what you said, the public is tired. They're done with the pandemic. We have to remember the lessons from the Spanish flu pandemic of 1918. Ten million, millions of people were exposed and couple of years later, the greatest number of deaths happened when people literally walked on the streets and took their masks off.

We are plateauing at a very high level of daily cases and it is not acceptable to have over 2,500 Americans dying every day. That is not an endemic to me. I definitely see some bright signals out there and I'm definitely excited about it, but why not continue to wear the mask, continue to follow guidelines and let the cases come down and the hospitalizations, which is the most important metric, that should come down as well?

BROWN: A few days ago, you tweeted that the sense of urgency to get vaccinated, boosted has gone down and that you blame the messaging, "We shouldn't be saying Omicron is mild and we shouldn't be OK with more than 2,000 COVID deaths a day." By the way, I am with you on that, Omicron was not mild for me and I'm triple vaxxed.

But, anyway, in your view, who is to blame here? Mild by my standards, by the way. I guess everyone has their own standards.

MATHEW: You know, I mean, Pamela, I know how difficult it was for you personally and it's been difficult for a lot of different people. What is mild for one person could be devastating for another and send somebody to the hospital but to answer your question, it's difficult to go back now and blame people but I definitely think that what I said earlier about the secretary of health, I think that his office could have really sent out that message that listen, you are not going to be fully protected until you get boosted.

We have 80 million people for some reason that are not getting boosted and just the recent study by CDC that says you're 97 percent chance risk of dying if you're unvaccinated to compare to somebody who is vaccinated and boosted. I mean if that study doesn't say anything to people who are unvaccinated, I'm not sure what will.

BROWN: Yes, that's a fair point, for sure. Dr. Saju Mathew, thank you so much.

MATHEW: Thanks, Pamela.

BROWN: And new tonight, a sobering development in the Russia-Ukraine crisis. Two U.S. officials telling CNN that Russia has positioned along Ukraine's border about 70 percent of the troops and weapons needed for a full-scale invasion. [19:10:07]

It comes as the U.S. ramps up its flow of troops and supplies to Eastern Europe.

CNN's Sam Kiley is in Kyiv. Sam, are Ukrainian officials echoing this level of alarm?

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No, the Ukrainian officials are once again out of step or at least verbally out of tune with what is coming out of the United States with the foreign minister here in the capital speaking in Kyiv, he said that there was no need for what he called this apocalyptic descriptions. As far as the United States intelligence briefings to CNN among others that describing Russia as being 70 percent ready to invade.

In other words, they have 70 percent of the troops that they would need for a mass invasion of this country, and I'm speaking to you from Kharkiv, which is only 30 miles from the Russian border. It's the second biggest city in the country. And even here, though, there is no sense at all that this is a country preparing for an invasion. There is a very different sense here. There is a sense of national patriotism for sure.

There was a big demonstration on Saturday here in Kharkiv demonstrating in a sense their national belief, even though the majority of people here are actually first-language Russian speakers, but all trying to rally around the Ukrainian flag and send the message to Russia that if there was an invasion that they would all fight, but there certainly isn't the sort of sandbagging and digging of trenches that you might imagine in a major city just 30 miles from what appears to be, and certainly in the view of the United States intelligence community, a very belligerent neighbor -- Pamela.

BROWN: Certainly. Sam Kiley, thank you.

Coming up, on this Sunday, Mike Pence's former chief of staff explaining why his boss rebuked Donald Trump and called him flat wrong.

Also ahead, the Navy confirming tonight the identity of the SEAL candidate who died during a tragic training accident.

And a terrifying near-miss. The hero police officer who saved a child from a speeding car by a split second. Just incredible video. She's being hailed a hero for good reason.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:16:34]

BROWN: The Navy has identified the SEAL candidate who died after a training phase known as Hell Week. Officials say 24-year-old Kyle Mullen started getting sick after an underwater demolition exercise. He died Friday in a San Diego hospital. The cause of his death is under investigation. And another SEAL candidate was also hospitalized after Hell Week and is reported in stable condition.

Jason Redman is a retired Navy SEAL. He is now a speaker, coach and author of the book "The Trident." He served in South America, Afghanistan and Iraq where he was shot three times.

Hi, thanks for coming on. Thank you for all of your service, Jason. You have gone through this training. Tell our viewers, what is Hell Week?

JASON REDMAN, RETIRED NAVY SEAL: So Hell Week is probably one of the toughest crucibles of SEAL training. It's probably one of the biggest things that have built the SEAL mind set. It happens usually about anywhere from four to six weeks in the first part of SEAL training and it's designed to weed out those who truly aren't fully committed to, you know, to becoming a SEAL. And it lasts about a week, goes from Sunday to Friday.

Candidates only get about three to four hours of sleep during that week and during that time you are wet, coated in sand, doing grueling physical activities the entire week and we lose about 80 percent of the class during Hell Week.

BROWN: Yes, the ring the bell. And tell us, because it is so grueling, particularly when you go through Hell Week, the temperature of the water and so forth, you're in the water so much, what is the medical attention like? I mean are people on standby to jump in and provide medical service if need be?

REDMAN: Yes, absolutely. I mean the SEAL teams and the instructors at BUD/S do an amazing job. There is a full-time medical staff assigned to SEAL training. There is a doctor on hand during Hell Week at all times. Candidates are getting medical checks multiple times a day. They're being checked for hypothermia. They're being checked for infections. They literally have a full body check that occurs several times a day.

So the program does a very good job, obviously, with any type of high- risk training we're always doing everything we can to mitigate that risk but it is a balance between how we can train to the highest levels possible and obviously in SEAL training, our basic SEAL training, we are trying to forge these candidates into future SEALs that can endure some of the hardest stresses that are out there.

So it's always a balance but I know we always err on the side of safety and the instructors and the medical staff do an amazing job doing that.

BROWN: We understand that Mullen had been in an underwater demolition training exercise earlier in the day. What exactly is that?

REDMAN: You know, the bottom line is during Hell Week there's all kinds of different evolutions and the first thing I want to say is to Seaman Mullen's family, you know, my deepest condolences to you.

BROWN: Yes.

REDMAN: I can't even imagine, say, I'm a father with kids. I can't imagine the loss of a child so our deepest condolences. The training is designed to have different phases. The underwater demolition portion of that training is designed to place students into an environment that simulates kind of a combat environment.

[19:20:01]

They've gone the entire week without sleep so it's simulated explosions, simulated -- a little bit of chaos and they're being pushed to complete some evolutions to some hard physical activities along with these evolutions. I'm not going to get into the direct details.

BROWN: Right.

REDMAN: I will just say that it is designed to simulate combat after a week of having a lack of sleep and a week of being really physically, emotionally and mentally taxed.

BROWN: Yes, I mean no doubt, it's what most people would never even think to have experienced in their lifetimes. What you and other SEALs have gone through with Hell Week. If his death was caused by Hell Week, and I want to emphasize that because we do not know that for certain, it is under investigation.

Tell us, what could have gone wrong? What are the risks? You talked about the balance here of making sure that you're getting in the best recruits who can do the job but also making sure safety is first and foremost. What are those risks?

REDMAN: Well, any type of high-risk training, I mean, if you are pushing individuals to the limit of their physical, mental and emotional abilities at times, I mean, we're in the water, we're cold, I mean, frequently during Hell Week, individuals get nicked, they get cut, so you can have what's called cellulitis. You get an infection under the skin. You can ingest sea water so, you know, you could be running around with low level pneumonia, whatever it is.

Like I said, though, the doctors and the staff do a very good job. I mean we do everything we can to mitigate the risks of what these students are going through.

BROWN: Absolutely.

REDMAN: So it is a balancing act and that's why they have so many of the medical checks. I know that Seaman Mullen had actually completed Hell Week so he was actually, after Hell Week before whatever happened, happened. I'm not going to speculate on any of that so it will be interesting to see what the medical examiners find out but, you know, during training, typically, if there is an accident, where something occurs, you know, it's noticed immediately.

BROWN: Right. REDMAN: So it will be addressed when it comes out of this, you know,

that he had already completed training before he and another student needed to go to the hospital.

BROWN: Yes, and like you said, our hearts, our prayers are with Seaman Mullen's family. I mean, this investigation will happen, hopefully it will help the family there have a better understanding of what happened but of course it won't take away the pain.

Jason Redman, thank you for coming on the show and again thank you for all of your service.

REDMAN: Pamela, thanks so much.

BROWN: A former aide to Mike Pence says snake-oil salesmen were advising Donald Trump on the 2020 election. That's just one of the topics we're going to break down next with our political guest Maria Cardona and Alice Stewart. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:27:15]

BROWN: Tonight, more fissures in the now growing rift between Donald Trump and Mike Pence. Marc Short who was the former VP's chief of staff saying advisers duped Trump into thinking Pence could overturn the election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHORT: Unfortunately, the president had many bad advisers who were basically snake-oil salesmen giving him really random and novel ideas as to what the vice-president could do.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: His comments come two days after Pence himself pushed back on Trump's claims that the vice president could have rejected the electoral college results.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: President Trump is wrong. I had no right to overturn the election. Frankly, there is no idea more un-American than the notion that any one person could choose the American president.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Joining me now is our political panel, Republican strategist Alice Stewart and Democrat strategist Maria Cardona.

Ladies, great to have you back on the show. Alice, let's start with you. You have been a critic of Trump's attempts to overturn the election from the beginning. So I'm sure it is refreshing for you to hear Pence join in in a more direct way criticizing Trump but would you have liked to see him go further and denounce Trump's lie that the election was stolen because of widespread fraud.

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm actually just glad that he has come forth and said publicly and put a name on it that Donald Trump was wrong, that Donald Trump did not win the election and Donald Trump should not have called for Vice President Pence to try and halt the certification of the elections.

And look, I think it's really important for us to stop questioning the integrity of our elections and I'm talking about people on both sides of the aisle and while Donald Trump has a lot to say he is the titular head of the Republican Party, and he would do much more to serve Republicans if he would make the midterm elections more about policies that help the people as opposed to a past grievance that helps him.

And if he can shift the focus from looking at 2020 and shift to 2022, he will go a long way to helping the party. People are concerned about policies that affect them, that is COVID, that is the economy, it's inflation, it's public safety, and the more we can shift back to policy and away from personality and the past election and more on the next election the better it will be for Republicans moving forward.

BROWN: Maria, I want to bring you in on this conversation. Marc Short suggested Trump was duped by his advisers. He said that before on this show, I think the first time he said it was actually on this show about a year ago, what do you make of that argument? Because Trump is still throwing out those lies so is he still being duped by his advisers?

[19:30:05]

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, come on, let's be real. Donald Trump did this because Donald Trump wanted to maintain power at all costs, even breaking the laws of this country to do it. It doesn't matter what people were telling him.

Look, there were advisers, certainly, that were cheering him on. But that has nothing to do with why Trump was doing this or frankly, you know, I'm so glad that Vice President -- former Vice President Mike Pence finally did this, but it has been over a year, Pam. Why couldn't he have done it immediately after the insurrection? What took so long?

And you know, I love my colleague, Alice, and she is right that people should be focused on legitimate policies, but it just so happens that today's Republican Party, you cannot be for the party and for Trump, and at the same time, be for our democracy and for our Constitution.

I mean, let's just look at the resolution, the insane resolution and dangerous resolution that the Republican National Committee just passed. Right?

BROWN: Yes, let's talk about that.

CARDONA: They only criticized -- yes, they are legitimizing political violence. But yes, let's tell the audience exactly what it was that happened. It's ridiculous. BROWN: Just piggybacking off of the point you made earlier, Alice,

wanting to look ahead, then you have the R.N.C. censuring two of its members, Representative Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for taking part in the January 6 investigation, the censure resolution accused the two of quote, " ... participating in a Democratic-led persecution of ordinary citizens engaged in legitimate political discourse."

That's what it read. Now, they played clean up after a growing number of Republicans are pushing back on that language. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARC SHORT, FORMER WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS: From my front row seat, I did not see a lot of legitimate political discourse.

REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R-TX): I do not agree with that statement, if it is applying to those who committed criminal offenses and violence.

SEN. LISA MURKOWSKI (R-AK): And the party is taking an approach or saying things that I think are just absolutely wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So what do you make of these strong responses from Republicans, Alice? Do you see the tide turning in a way?

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Oh, Pam, I do think that the actions out of the R.N.C. meeting, it's an unforced error. We would have been much better served coming out of that meeting with a full- throated policy playbook moving into the midterm elections on how we're going to take it to the Biden administration and the failures of this administration, and how we're going to look at policies that bring this party together instead of these grievances that divide us.

Look, what happened on January 6 was not legitimate political discourse. .Legitimate political discourse as having civil conversations about the policies that we need to continue to focus on, and the problem with what we had out of R.N.C. is now we're talking about this, divisions within the R.N.C.

And look, it is not the R.N.C.'s role, in my view to censure Cheney and Kinzinger. That is better served and better left up to the voters in their respective districts what they want to do and clearly, Kinzinger deciding he is not running for re-election and Cheney having a difficult time in a primary, let the voters decide.

It's important for the people of this country to nominate and elect who they want to serve them, and that goes for Members of Congress, as well as presidential candidates.

Marie, I want to go to you on something that's getting quite a bit of pickup on Twitter. Stacey Abrams is under fire for this picture posing maskless with a large group of masked schoolchildren and teachers at a school where there is a mask mandate. Now, "The Atlanta Journal-Constitution" says video that's reviewed

shows Abrams taking off a mask just before speaking, should she be criticized for this?

CARDONA: You know, I saw that picture a little bit earlier on your show, Pam, and sure, at first, it is a little disconcerting, because she has been as most Democrats are front and center in terms of talking about the necessity for everyone to wear masks, but yes, she was at an event and now, we are at a point where -- and I bet you most people around there were masked during the event or were vaccinated. I'm sure she is fully vaccinated as well.

And so when you are at these kinds of events, you do take off your mask before speaking and that's probably where the picture was taken. And so, you know, people I can say she shouldn't be criticized that's not going to stop people from criticizing her.

I think what people should look at is how she has comported herself thus far, what she is saying, what she is, frankly doing herself in other ways, and frankly, what she has done as most Democrats have done as not enough Republicans have done or are doing is to continue to focus on the safety of mask wearing, on the safety of vaccinations, on pushing vaccinations not just two, but the booster as well.

[19:35:11]

CARDONA: I know my friend, Alice, does all of the time.

But look, I think that that moving forward, every Democrat and hopefully every Republican and this, I think has been a big flaw and fail of the Republican Party, starting with Donald Trump is that the reason why we are in such a problem with COVID in this country is because they did not believe in the science at the beginning, they did not push vaccinations, they did not push masking. They made fun of the science, and that is why we are at the -- you know, frankly, surpassing 900,000 American deaths.

So hopefully, everyone, Democrats and Republicans will move forward with ensuring that we do all of the safety standards all of the time.

BROWN: Alice, quick response.

STEWART: If I can just real quickly say, with all due respect to my dear friend, Maria. Look, the big fail of the Democratic Party yet again, is the hypocrisy. We have Democrats talking so much about mask mandates, and Stacey Abrams is just the latest example in addition to Nancy Pelosi, California Governor Gavin Newsom preaching about mask mandates, but not doing so.

I will sit back and patiently wait ...

CARDONA: See what I mean, Pam?

STEWART: ... for Stacey Abrams to come forward and acknowledge that this was a mistake.

BROWN: Thank you so much, ladies.

CARDONA: They have not been --

BROWN: Alice Stewart, Maria Cardona, I love that you start off each one saying, "with all due respect to my friend," and then disagree. That's how it should be. We should be able to have civil discourse and disagree.

STEWART: Exactly.

CARDONA: And we are friends as you know, Pam.

BROWN: I know you are. Thank you for coming on. Alice Stewart and Maria Cardona. Thank you.

CARDONA: Thanks so much, Pam.

BROWN: Well, a pregnant woman spent months in the hospital in a dire battle against COVID. Three strokes and one heart attack later, she had her baby boy. She says it's a miracle. And up next, she joins me live along with her husband and her doctor to share this incredible story.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:41:35]

BROWN: A Texas woman spent 139 days in the hospital battling COVID while she was pregnant. Diana Crouch contracted the virus back in August and had one heart attack and three strokes later, she says her survival is nothing short of a miracle.

Diana and her husband Chris, join me now along with Dr. Cameron Dezfulian who treated Diana. Thank you all.

What an incredible story. Let's start with you, Diana. You named the baby, Cameron, after the doctor. How are you? And how is a little one doing now?

DIANA CROUCH, HOSPITALIZED 139 DAYS WITH COVID WHITE PREGNANT: I'm good. I'm doing good. The baby is great. He's just a crier.

BROWN: As they normally are, right? And to be clear, you did not want to get the vaccine because you were pregnant. Has the experience changed your decision for COVID-19 vaccines?

D. CROUCH: Yes, definitely did. The initial response to not getting it was because I was afraid that it would harm the baby, but I have been vaccinated since.

BROWN: That's great. Chris, this is your third child? What did you tell them when your wife was in the hospital? What was that like for you?

CHRIS CROUCH, COVID SURVIVOR'S HUSBAND: It was definitely difficult. I told her, you know, the doctors, that she had to come home. We have a family to go home to, and we've got to try to save the baby as well. So it's definitely some uncharted territory for the doctors trying to save mom and a baby while on ECMO. So it was very difficult.

BROWN: Oh, yes. And Dr. Cameron, we're going to get to you in a second on that, but Diana, how much do you remember of your time in the hospital? And would you have done anything differently?

D. CROUCH: Well, fortunately, I think I don't remember much. Because it was very tough. The last thing I remember was going to the ER. So, I basically don't really have any memories of my stay at the hospital.

BROWN: And Chris, when did you realize that it was time to take her into the ER?

C. CROUCH: Yes, it was a Thursday evening. It was actually August 5th and her oxygen saturation was dropping into the 80s, and I didn't want to have to wake up and call an ambulance. So I took her about two or three in the morning to Kingwood ER, and then the rest was history after that.

BROWN: And you must have just been so worried about her and for your unborn child.

C. CROUCH: Yes, it was the hardest thing I ever had to deal with. I didn't know if I was going to plan for a funeral. You know, I didn't know -- I didn't know what to do. You know, it was just so hard, and I prayed a lot. You know, I did a lot of praying.

BROWN: You have, like you said a family at home. You've got your wife going through all of this with your unborn child.

Dr. Cameron, let's bring you in because you're the hero of the story. How challenging was this process for you in terms of dealing with a pregnant patient going through all of this?

DR. CAMERON DEZFULIAN, ICU MEDICAL DIRECTOR, TEXAS CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL: I mean, this was incredibly challenging and just really, in all fairness, I'm the medical Director for our Adult Congenital Heart Unit, but this was a huge challenge to our program I mean we're designed to take care of adults with congenital heart disease that's what Texas Children does better than anybody in the country.

[19:45:11]

DEZFULIAN: But this was a whole different thing. This was providing ECMO to a pregnant woman and it required our entire team. I mean, it was a huge team of doctors, nurses, physical therapists, the PFW which is our Pavilion For Women, the OBs, the Maternal Fetal Medicine docs, you know, colleagues from Baylor St. Luke's on the stroke service, our ECMO colleagues.

I mean, really 40 different groups came together to be involved on this because it was really out of the scope of adult congenital heart disease. And yet, I mean, I'm so proud of our team that they did it. They came together they we made the adjustments we needed to support Diana and to support little baby Cameron through the whole thing. BROWN: Yes, and you must have been, it must have just been so

stressful. Was the heart attack and the stroke connected to the COVID? Can you help us understand that?

DEZFULIAN: Yes, I mean, anytime you have COVID, you have a propensity for more clots. Pregnancy adds to that, being on ECMO adds a lot to that, and as we discovered subsequently, in Diana's case, she actually had a hole in her heart that didn't seem to be open before as we were going on ECMO, but was open subsequently, and that hole actually permitted for those blood clots to transfer over.

So, the three strokes and the heart attack all happened within a very short period of time, it was in a single day and that was a tough day. And I mean, Chris remembers that day well as do I, because we were there together. I mean, really, that entire week was incredibly challenging.

But I mean, to echo his words, a lot of prayer got us through.

BROWN: Really quickly, Chris and Diana, what was that? Well, Diana, I know you were in quite a state. But Chris, what was it like when the baby was finally born, and you got to hold the baby. And same for you, Diana?

C. CROUCH: For me, it was -- honestly, it felt like, okay, that's one down, we've got to get one more better. So it was a little bit of a relief, but at the same time, I wanted to share that moment with Diana, because we tried so hard for baby Cameron and I wanted to share that moment with her. And there's just a long way to go at that point, but she eventually started getting better right after Cameron was born.

BROWN: What was that like -- go ahead.

D. CROUCH: It was not until three days later, and I was still kind of on medication, so it was not the best meeting.

BROWN: Yes, I know. There's all this, you know, moms have it built up in their head, right? How they're going to meet their baby, how that moment is going to be when the doctor hands a baby to you. And for you, man, it certainly did not live up to what you imagined, presumably.

But we're so glad you're doing well now, Diana, and that baby Cameron is great. And, Chris, that you've been so supportive of your wife because it is all about the support system, and Dr. Cameron, same goes to you. Thank you so much.

DEZFULIAN: Thanks so much.

C. CROUCH: Thank you.

D. CROUCH: Yes.

BROWN: Well, more than one year after the deadly riot at the U.S. Capitol, some Republicans are in denial about what really happened. This is despite the violence by Donald Trump supporters captured on camera. We're going to take a closer look "For the Record" up next.

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[19:52:43]

BROWN: Well, "For the Record," today marks 13 months since the January 6th insurrection, and think about what we have learned, think about the videos that have been made public, those firsthand accounts from police officers who were there, the officers who held the line to protect the Capitol on that unforgettable day.

Since the insurrection though, some members of the Republican Party continue to deny the reality of January 6, 2021.

Just look at how the Republican National Committee described it as it was censuring two Republican Representatives Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for having the audacity to hold the people involved accountable.

And with the censure, the R.N.C. describes the events of January 6th as quote, "legitimate political discourse."

[VIDEO CLIP PLAYS]

BROWN: Does this look like legitimate political discourse to you? It sure doesn't to Mike Pence's former Chief of Staff Marc Short, who was with the Vice President hiding from the rioters that day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHUCK TODD, NBC NEWS HOST: Did you seeing legitimate political discourse that day.

MARC SHORT, FORMER WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS: From my front row seat, I did not see a lot of legitimate political discourse.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: The R.N.C. is trying to clean up its comments by now trying to draw a distinction between those who did not commit violence on January 6th and the rioters who violently stormed the Capitol.

For the record, though, if Republicans are so committed to making sure something like this never happens again, why did they attack the bipartisan House Select Committee seated to investigate what led up to the violence on January 6th, to make sure that doesn't happen again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): The January 6 Commission is not the place to do that. That's what prosecutors are supposed to do. This Commission is a partisan scam. They're going after -- the purpose of that commission is to try to embarrass and smear and harass as many Republicans as they can get their hands on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger, he doesn't agree with the senator from Florida. Kinzinger responded Rubio's comments by tweeting: "No, the embarrassment was done on January 6, 2021, at least through February 6, 2022 when you gave that answer."

And if you think Congress would be willing to accept the Committee's findings and move on, think again. Just listen to North Carolina Republican Congressman Madison Cawthorn. He says he wants to turn the January 6 Committee under a Republican-led Congress into a deep state investigation of a baseless conspiracy theory.

[19:55:18]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MADISON CAWTHORN (R-NC): A lot of people actually want to know, was our Federal government involved? Was this a false flag operation used by the F.B.I. whether -- whatever three letter agency you want to use. How many agents did we have inside infiltrated in this crowd? What did Nancy Pelosi know and when did she know it?

What did all of the Capitol Police leaders know, and when did they know it? Why are we hiding all of these videos?

I just want the truth to come out because I believe we have some very high-ranking, very vile and evil and unpatriotic officials in our Federal government. And it's part of the Deep State and so, I just want to turn the January 6 Committee into a committee that will start rooting out the Deep State once and for all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: That for the record, my friends is what you call reality denialism.

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