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Spotify Backs Joe Rogan; Gas Prices Rise; Russian Invasion Threat. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired February 07, 2022 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:02]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: This reporting comes, of course, just days after the National Archives said staffers there had to tape together some ripped-up Trump White House documents before turning them over to the January 6 Congressional Committee.

Thanks for joining us on INSIDE POLITICS today.

Don't forget, you can see our podcast. Download it wherever you get your podcasts.

Ana Cabrera picks up right now.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello, and thanks for joining us.

I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

And, this hour, we're watching two high-stakes meetings in the race to avert war between Russia and Ukraine. French President Emmanuel Macron is wrapping up a meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin right now. And in just minutes, President Biden will be hosting his German counterpart at the White House.

Will Germany take stronger action? Will diplomacy win? Or will Russia invade?

The fear of war is having a direct impact on prices at the pump. A gallon of gas is at a news seven-year high. How much higher could they go?

Plus, Joe Rogan under fire again, this time for repeatedly using the N-word and other racial slurs. Now, Spotify has removed some of his past podcasts, but is keeping Rogan down as a host. Why the company says silencing him isn't the answer.

Let's begin with the high-stakes meetings under way, as Russia's presence along Ukraine's border intensifies.

And I want to bring in CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson live in Moscow and CNN White House correspondent M.J. Lee.

Nic, a meeting between Putin and Macron is under way right now. What are these leaders saying as they were heading into this? NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, President

Putin was thanking Emmanuel Macron for being engaged in the situation, for taking the time to work on it. He pointed out how they'd had some good phone calls which had paved the way towards the meeting.

He said that he wanted to earn -- and he believed that President Macron was going to be able to help ensure security in Europe. He also spoke about the need to ensure security inside Ukraine in the intra- Ukraine conflict, as he phrased it, between essentially the separatists, the pro-Russian separatists in the east of the country, and the Ukrainian government.

Of course, the -- President Putin is understood to be strongly supporting and backing and helping those pro-Russian separatists in the east of Ukraine. But he's -- in essence, he said that he saw President Macron bringing both -- bringing help to both of these situations.

Macron, for his part, said that he hoped to be able to de-escalate tensions not only inside Ukraine, and really an indication there of the Normandy format talks for the Minsk agreement, so Macron indicating that that's an area that France can get involved in that, France can have a hand in, already has a hand in, but also talked about the sort of the European security and the need to de-escalate tensions.

So it really is in this meeting now can President Macron convince President Putin to take the diplomatic opportunities that are there? The Kremlin this morning, however, said that they didn't see these meetings alone, in and of themselves, being a breakthrough, and they still haven't got the security guarantees that they want.

There's a huge gulf between where Macron sits and where President Putin sits. But this is the beginning. And I think both sides agreed on that.

CABRERA: And we know you are standing by for a press conference that's supposed to follow their meeting.

Meantime, we have a meeting happening right here in the U.S., President Biden's meeting with the new German chancellor, Olaf Scholz. That's just minutes away.

And, M.J., it comes after we just learned Germany is prepared to enforce unprecedented sanctions on Russia if the Kremlin fails to de- escalate tensions with Ukraine, this from the country's foreign minister. What can we expect to come from Biden's meeting with the German chancellor?

M.J. LEE, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ana, this is an incredibly important and critical diplomatic meeting.

And there are a number of challenges facing President Biden. One is just the simple reality that we have been talking about for weeks, that Germany essentially has shown a real reluctance to be forceful when it comes to Russia and its dealings with Ukraine, whether it is on the question of sending arms to Ukraine, whether it is boosting troops on the -- along the eastern flank and the question, of course, of sanctions.

We expect that to be a big part of the discussions between the two leaders that will take place any moment now here at the White House. And then, of course, there is the dynamic that Olaf Scholz is a relatively new chancellor and leader of Germany.

The previous chancellor of the country, Angela Merkel, is somebody that President Biden has a years-long working relationship with, somebody that he knew quite well. So another dynamic in this meeting is going to be simply President Biden trying to get to know this new leader of Germany.

[13:05:01]

There is another sort of contentious topic that we expect for the two leaders to discuss. And that is, of course, the Nord Stream 2 pipeline. The U.S. has been pretty clear all along that they expect and they support that pipeline not moving forward, particularly if Russia decides to invade Ukraine.

That is not something that we have heard coming from leaders of Germany. So we expect that to be another very key topic for the two leaders to discuss as well. And, of course, Ana, it is worth mentioning that the urgency here is really, really key and at the forefront.

We know from our reporting that Putin has some 70 percent of military and other resources along the Ukrainian border in order to do a full- scale invasion of the country. So, U.S. administration officials are very, very keenly aware of that the timing is really key.

We will see the two leaders participate in a press conference after their meeting. So that is going to give us a pretty good glimpse of what issues they are actually on the same page on and what issues they are not on the same page on -- Ana.

CABRERA: M.J. Lee, Nic Robertson, keep us posted. Thanks so much.

We're joined now by CNN military analyst retired U.S. Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton and senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations "Washington Post" columnist Max Boot.

Max, as we wait on the readout for the meeting between Putin and Macron and we gear up for today's meeting here in the U.S., what will you be listening for watching for following these meetings?

MAX BOOT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, I don't expect there's going to be much development in the meeting between Macron and Putin. I just don't think that Putin is interested in a diplomatic resolution.

And if the U.S. couldn't achieve it, I don't see much chance that the president of France will do so. I think the meeting between Biden and Scholz will be potentially more important, because I think what the world is looking for is a strong signal from Germany that they are prepared to impose devastating economic consequences on Russia should Russian troops invade Ukraine.

And, of course, that is something that is very difficult for Germany to do because it gets more than half of its natural gas from Russia. And this was, I think, one of the signal blunders of Scholz's predecessor, Angela Merkel, that she shut down Germany's nuclear industry and made that country more reliant on Russia natural gas.

And Putin may well be gambling that the West will not impose serious sanctions on him, because Germany and other European countries need his gas. And that is an impression that Scholz will need to dispel.

CABRERA: And, Colonel, CNN has learned that communications intercepted by U.S. intelligence show that, privately, some Russian officials feel that they may not be able to pull off a full-scale attack in Ukraine.

Now, U.S. officials clearly wanted to make these doubts public. Why?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, that's right, Ana.

I think the big thing here is to show that there is dissension within the Russian military about this whole process, about the whole idea of an invasion. And it points to some things that we probably need to be looking at, both from an intelligence perspective, as well as a military perspective.

Perhaps the Russian forces are not as strong as they seem, number one, would be something to look at. Number two, the other thing to keep in mind is, this is all about whether or not Putin can control the military and whether or not he will listen to the advice of his military leaders.

If he doesn't listen to that advice, we could see things moving forward, like we think they might be, in a worst-case scenario. If he does listen to them, things could be modified a bit. And that, of course, could also be interesting from a policy and intelligence perspective.

CABRERA: Colonel, could the news that they aren't sure they could do it, they could pull it off, actually, could it incentivize Russia to act, because Putin certainly doesn't want to look weak?

LEIGHTON: That's true. He doesn't want to look weak.

And I think, Ana, it's very possible that he could force the issue. Other authoritarian leaders in history have done those kinds of things when faced by dissension from their militaries, and, in some cases, they were proven 'right" -- in quotation marks.

And in those cases, that, of course, solidifies the strongman's position. Putin may very well think that way and may decide that this might be the kind of thing that he needs to do. CABRERA: And so when you look at the physical indicators here, Max,

we learned this weekend that Russia has 70 percent of their military capabilities in place for a full-scale invasion. I wonder, would Putin go to these lengths if he's not going to invade, Max?

I think we lost Max.

Colonel, did you hear the question? Do you think they would put 70 percent in place for a full-scale invasion if that weren't going to happen?

[13:10:04]

LEIGHTON: I do not think that would happen in that way.

I think that, if he put 70 of his capability -- or his forces are 70 percent capable of doing something like this, the chances are very high that he wants to do this. And you have to look at it from a very worst-case scenario perspective and hope for the best.

But, in this particular case, I think it's very possible that he does want to do this. And he may want to do it in a combination of a lightning strike against Kyiv, for example, kind of do it in that way, so that he decapitates the Ukrainian regime very quickly, and then it's very difficult for us to respond to what would then become a fait accompli at that point.

CABRERA: How do you think they assess 70 percent? Like, how -- what does that even mean?

LEIGHTON: Yes, that's -- that is definitely something that gets into the arcane art of intelligence predictions, Ana.

And the way I would assess it is, it could be one of two things. They have looked at, let's say, the fuel supplies that the Russians have on hand for their forces. They have looked at the number of forces that are arrayed, their capabilities, types of weapons systems, and counted them, did a bean counting exercise, and determined that those forces are at a certain degree of readiness.

The Russians themselves may have reported what kind of readiness features they believe they're operating under, and they may very well have done that assessment. And if we have gotten word of what they're talking about, then we could be, in essence, mirroring what the Russians are saying internally.

So there are several possibilities there. But it's kind of an arcane science when it comes to how to assess the readiness of an opposition military force. And, in this particular case, we can say that they believe that there's a greater chance that they're more ready than not to do something like this.

CABRERA: Colonel Cedric Leighton, thanks for having my back when we lost Max there. I always appreciate your analysis and expertise. Thanks for joining us.

And our thanks to Max Boot as well.

CNN will have much more coverage of this crisis throughout the day.

And make sure you tune in this afternoon. My colleague Jake Tapper has an exclusive us TV interview with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz. That's on THE LEAD today at 4:00 p.m. Eastern.

The threat of war in Europe is pushing rising gas prices in the U.S. even higher, and the experts warn it could get worse before it gets any better.

Plus, Spotify forced to defend its $100 million man again, standing by Joe Rogan after his past use of the N-word draws new scrutiny.

And the mayor of Ottawa, Canada, pleading for help and declaring a state of emergency, as protests over COVID restrictions spiral out of control.

We will take you there live.

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[13:17:21]

CABRERA: Here we go again.

Gas prices are spiking yet again. The average gallon right now just hit a new seven-year high, $3.44 a gallon. That's up 14 cents from a month ago, and nearly a buck from a year ago, and with oil prices also notching new highs, there could be more bad news ahead for drivers.

Even after a stellar January jobs report on Friday that caught just about everyone off-guard, the pain at the pump highlights the frustrating reality of President Biden's economic recovery so far. Costs keep rising.

Here to discuss this and today's other big economic headlines, CNN business reporter Matt Egan.

And, Matt, I think the question everyone's mind right now is, just how bad is it going to get at the pump?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Ana, you're spot on here.

The jobs market is clearly on fire. But, sadly, the cost of living keeps going up. And nowhere is that clearer than at the gas pump, the national average up to $3.44 a gallon, fresh seven-year high. It's up 7 cents in just the past week.

Now, this is largely about supply and demand. Demand is very strong right now because people are driving more. They're flying more, which increases demand for oil. And supply just is not keeping up, and neither OPEC nor U.S. oil companies are coming to the rescue by ramping up production.

And then, at the same time, you have these Russia-Ukraine tensions raising the specter of supply disruptions. You put all of that together, and that is a recipe for the national average rapidly approaching $3.50 a gallon.

Now, what's really important to remember is that gas moves with a lag to oil prices. And, in recent days, we have seen oil prices top $91 a barrel. Some on Wall Street say that $100 could be around the corner.

And, Ana, that would obviously drive gas prices even higher.

CABRERA: Also today, there's the major airline industry shakeup. Low- fare carriers Spirit and Frontier are merging.

Explain why this is a big deal.

EGAN: Well, Ana, yes, this is a big deal. It would create the number five airline in the United States if this deal gets approved by regulators.

These two airlines have more than 1,000 flights a day to over 145 destinations. It would also join the two airlines that often get poor marks from customers. Spirit and Frontier were at the bottom of all major airlines in the American customer satisfaction index for each of the past seven years.

And, fittingly, today, the FAA says that all Frontier Airlines flights are under a nationwide ground stop. And Frontier says that they had a technology issue that they have resolved and they're working to get the flights back up and their flight schedule back to normal.

[13:20:02]

And, obviously, Ana, there's never a good time to have a tech glitch. But, given, that these two airlines are trying to sell the public on the merits of a merger, this is clearly terrible timing.

CABRERA: Well, hopefully, it means good prices at some point for people who are willing to give them another chance.

Matt Egan. I appreciate it. Thanks.

Spotify is standing by its $100 million man. In a message to employees last night, Spotify's CEO explained why they won't be cutting ties with Joe Rogan, despite calls to take action after a video showing Rogan's past use of the N-word resurfaced and went viral.

The edited compilation shows Rogan using the racist language on his hit podcast more than 20 times over the years.

I have to warn you, we have it all bleeped. But it is still disturbing to hear.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE ROGAN, HOST, "THE JOE ROGAN EXPERIENCE": Yes, saying the word (EXPLETIVE DELETED) saying (EXPLETIVE DELETED)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's calling you a (EXPLETIVE DELETED)

ROGAN: Boy, that he is a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and starts calling them (EXPLETIVE DELETED). There should be a word like (EXPLETIVE DELETED) especially like the word (EXPLETIVE DELETED). That's our (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

He says (EXPLETIVE DELETED) starts saying (EXPLETIVE DELETED) use the word (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Tough to hear that. I wanted to play it because I don't think me just saying he's used it a lot does it justice.

I mean, you get the full context in his demeanor and everything by at least watching some of those clips.

Now, dozens of episodes of "The Joe Rogan Experience" were removed over the weekend. And Spotify says Rogan made that call. Among the episodes were interviews with the founder of the Proud Boys, as well as right-wing conspiracy theorist Alex Jones.

And that move came alongside this apology from Rogan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROGAN: I'm making this video to talk about the most regretful and shameful thing that I have ever had to talk about publicly.

There's a video that's out that's a compilation of me saying the N- word. It's a video that's made of clips taken out of context of me of 12 years of conversations on my podcast, and it's all smushed together. And it looks (EXPLETIVE DELETED) horrible, even to me.

Now, I know that, to most people, there's no context where a white person is ever allowed to say that word, never mind publicly on a podcast. And I agree with that now. I haven't said it in years.

But, for a long time, when I would bring that word up, like, if it would come up in conversation, instead of saying the N-word, I would just say the word. I never used it to be racist, because I'm not racist.

But whenever you're in a situation where you have to say, I'm not racist, you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up. And I clearly have (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Spotify has pledged to spend $100 million on content for marginalized groups, roughly the same price as Rogan's Spotify deal.

Joining us now is "Washington Post" opinion columnist Karen Attiah.

And, Karen, has Spotify done enough here? How do you think they have handled this? KAREN ATTIAH, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Yes, it's handled this,I mean,

as any brand that still wants to be able to say that they can profit off of a podcast that not only frequently has dehumanized black people and other groups, women.

But it's Black History Month, I mean, and I feel like these sort of brands are the types that will be like all #BlackLivesMatter one minute and curate Black History Month Spotify playlists for us one minute, and then say that, well, we aren't going to do anything about Joe Rogan in this podcast because we want to promote -- quote, unquote -- "open debate."

And I said this on Twitter. I think that the crux of the problem, for those who are turning this into an issue of silencing and cancel culture, is this notion that somehow our safety as non-white, non-male people is something that is still a debatable issue, that is still something that we haven't settled the question on.

And so, honestly, Spotify is -- I'm really quite disappointed, but not surprised, in the fact that they're wanting to stand with their profits. They don't want to alienate that audience. And they have chosen with their dollars where their values are, frankly.

CABRERA: And that is what this is about for them.

It's about putting, I guess, principles first when it comes to being a place with diverse viewpoints, diverse voices. And a lot of companies, Spotify included, are all over the place when it comes to content moderation, right?

[13:25:01]

ATTIAH: Yes.

CABRERA: In this case, Spotify has removed artists in the past, like neo-Nazi bands.

But then you have convicted sex offender R. Kelly. You can still listen to his material. But I think one key difference with Rogan is that Spotify is the exclusive distributor of his podcast. So do they have more responsibility? Is this like a radio station and its host?

ATTIAH: Yes, I mean, again, this idea that they're going by sort of high-minded morals and diversity, I mean, I'd be very inclined to know how much they have offered.

Now they're saying they're offering $1 million to be distributed amongst marginalized podcasters. But, again, even in offering this deal, either, again, Spotify didn't do their homework before offering $100 million to Joe Rogan, or they did, saw a lot of this content, and again, not just the N-word, but Rogan platforming guests who say things like black people have more of a predisposition, a genetic predisposition to violence.

So, the more disturbing thought about this is that Spotify knew and said, we're going to proudly resource Joe Rogan and these types of guests, so that he can do more of this content. And I think that's the latter of what we're seeing.

CABRERA: You heard Rogan's apology. What can Rogan do to make this right?

ATTIAH: Frankly, I'm not even so interested in what Joe Rogan is trying to do to make this right.

Spotify and Joe Rogan's response to this, instead of really, really, really owning up to it, they spent the weekend scrubbing the files, memory-holing, basically, like washing away the evidence of the crimes.

So, to me, if he was really serious, stand by it. Stand by who you are and who you have been. I, frankly, think...

CABRERA: But people change. Maybe he's begun to realize how horrific that was. And he didn't see it at the time. That's what he says in his apology, right.

He's like, you're right. This is horrific. I have learned.

I mean, is he -- can he not learn from the past?

ATTIAH: Oh, I'm sure that he's learned that he really regrets that this has exposed, in a way.

And, again, I want to say that people have been saying this about Joe Rogan for years. And credit to India.Arie, the singer, who was one of the ones to put this clip together.

I think it just so happened that this turned into a fever pitch for him. But it's not -- again, it's not just Rogan. And to, an extent, I don't look at this as issues of whether or not somebody is mean or nice or racist or not.

CABRERA: Yes.

ATTIAH: But when it comes to an institution or a company that looks at this content and says, yes, we're going to make a whole bunch of money off of this, we don't really care...

CABRERA: Yes.

ATTIAH: ... that's where I see a lot of danger happening.

Joe Rogan can go and do what he wants to probably have a good following anyway. But when a company says that they stand behind values of social justice and progress, and then basically shows us who they are, my question would be, are they and other platforms going to change?

And my answer is, it doesn't really seem so.

CABRERA: Well, I appreciate your perspective. Thank you so much for joining us, Karen Attiah. Great to have you here.

ATTIAH: Thanks, Ana.

CABRERA: Crippling and at times violent demonstrations in Canada are growing this hour. Protesters are now joining truckers who have been blocking roads in Ottawa for more than a week over COVID-19 mandates.

We will have a live report right after this.

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