Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Macron to Meet with Putin; U.S. Reinforcing NATO Allies in Eastern Europe; IOC President Meets with Chinese Tennis Star Peng Shuai; Australia to Reopen Borders to Fully-Vaccinated Travelers; Thailand Seeks Tourism Boost with Quarantine-Free Travel; Ottawa Declares State of Emergency Over Demonstrations; How 'Wish-Cycling' Contaminates Recycling Process. Aired 12-1a ET

Aired February 07, 2022 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome, everyone to CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Michael Holmes. Appreciate your company.

[00:00:25]

Coming up, as Russia's military buildup reaches a critical juncture, I speak with the former commanding general of U.S. Army Europe about what's at stake.

Face to face. The president of the IOC meets with the Chinese tennis star Peng Shuai, who said she was sexually assaulted by a government official, then disappeared from public view.

And hoping to do good by recycling, but really causing more harm. The consequences of so many of us "wish-cycling."

ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Center, this is CNN NEWSROOM with Michael Holmes.

HOLMES: Welcome, everyone. With the standoff between Russia and Ukraine at a critical point, the French president is stepping into the diplomatic spotlight. Emmanuel Macron is set to meet with the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, in just a few hours.

And later, U.S. President Joe Biden will hold talks with the German chancellor at the White House. Olaf Scholz has signaled a willingness to deploy more troops to Lithuania to support NATO.

Now, all of this, as new satellite images show Russian deployments and several locations in Belarus. Joint exercises between the two countries are due to begin Thursday. But some of the images show Russian tanks hundreds of kilometers away from those exercises close to the border with Ukraine.

Now, in a tweet, the British foreign secretary, Liz Truss, said Russia's actions show their claims have no plans to invade are false. After his meeting with President Putin, Mr. Macron will travel to Kyiv in an intense round of shuttle diplomacy.

Melissa Bell reports now on Mr. Macron's delicate mission to reshape European security.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: De-escalate tensions, and prevent further Russian aggression against Ukraine.

MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For several months now, the diplomatic activity around Ukraine has been intense. But, despite the visits and phone calls, the handshakes and the smiles, Russia's military buildup has continued, and NATO's has begun.

Now, the French president is heading to Moscow with a message.

EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translator): There won't be order, security, and stability for Europe, if Europeans don't have the ability to defend themselves and to deter but also if we don't have the ability to build a common solution with all our neighbors.

BELL: The U.S. has already sent additional troops to Eastern Europe, a move aimed at demonstrating NATO's unity and its strength. France has also offered to send troops to Romania.

JEAN-YVES LE DRIAN, FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTER: I don't think that we can say this is a provocation, that responding to commitments that we've made, in the framework of our NATO presence, I don't see how this could disturb the discussions between the French president and president Putin. The important issue, at this moment, is de- escalation.

BELL: France hopes it can build on the success of talks with Russia, Ukraine, and Germany that were revived last month. The Kremlin, however, is more pessimistic.

The delegations of the so-called Normandy format talks are expected to meet again in Germany this week.

DMITRY KOZAK, RUSSIA'S CHIEF NEGOTIATOR FOR UKRAINE: We hope to be more constructive there, and we'll have something to tell you. Because today, we have nothing to brag about. As much as we want to move forward, the progress that we have equals almost zero.

BELL: With so little progress made so far, there's a lot riding on Macron's visit to Moscow. A French presidential official said Macron aims to focus on the structure of talks between Kyiv and separatists in Eastern Ukraine.

Given the direct communication between the two has so far been excluded from the Minsk agreement. The second, quote, "much more difficult" focus will be the reduction of Russia's military posture around Ukraine, the French official said.

MICHAEL BOCIURKIW, SENIOR FELLOW, ATLANTIC COUNCIL: I think diplomacy has run its course quite some time ago, and they will do what Putin wants. But look, diplomatic talks are better than none whatsoever. And the other thing it does, indirectly, is it allows the United States and other allies to better prepare for the worst.

BELL: Even as Putin's intentions remain unknown, one thing is unclear: that France and Russia agree that the old treaties aren't working. And by taking a role in European democracy after Germany's Angela Merkel stepped down, Macron hopes to be the leader to forge new ones.

Melissa Bell, CNN, Kyiv.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[00:05:03]

HOLMES: Well, while we wait for that Macron-Putin meeting, the U.S. military moving forward with President Biden's orders to deploy troops and equipment to reinforce NATO allies in Eastern Europe. American troops being sent to Poland, Germany, and Romania.

Meanwhile, the eighth U.S. shipment of military aid for Ukraine, has arrived in Kyiv. The U.S. embassy calling that shipment, quote, "80- plus tons of solidarity."

Isabel Rosales has more on U.S. military efforts.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm standing right now inside of the reception area, about a football field away from those large military aircraft that are taking them overseas.

So right behind me, these soldiers are waiting to be deployed. And it can be a waiting game, until they get that final order. It can be hours spent maybe napping, packing, reading, playing cards. But when it is go time, that focus, that training, it kicks in.

In total, 2,000 soldiers will deploy from right here in Fort Bragg, 300 of them from the 18th Airborne. They're already in Germany. But they're still working on deploying the 82nd Airborne. Altogether, 1,700 soldiers from that division will go to Poland.

And inside of those large C-17 planes are not only soldiers but also equipment and Humvees.

And I'm also learning that these soldiers will conduct drills with their Polish counterparts. That's according to a spokesman of the 82nd Airborne, who calls it routine.

LT. COL. BRETT LEA, PUBLIC AFFAIRS OFFICERS, U.S. ARMY 82ND AIRBORNE DIVISION: So we're there to assure our allies and to reinforce our ironclad commitment to our European allies, we cannot really anticipate the future. We hope that our presence will assure our allies that we're committed to a safe and stable Europe.

ROSALES: The soldiers are headed to Europe, and they don't have a timeline as to when they'll be able to return home. The Pentagon is calling this mission temporary, but it's not ruling out that they might send more troops. Eighty-five hundred of them, aside from these 3,000, are on heightened alert there, at the ready for any order from the president and the Pentagon.

I'm Isabel Rosales, CNN, Fort Bragg.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Joining me now is Lieutenant General Mark Hertling. He's the former commanding general of the U.S. Army Europe and the Seventh Army and a CNN military analyst. So a man who knows this potential battlefield well.

You've got the U.S. saying that the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, has got 70 percent of assets he'll need in place for an invasion. You commanded U.S. forces in Europe. You know the landscape better than anyone. What's your assessment of his assets and capabilities as we know them right now?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, I've heard that figure of 70 percent, Michael. And because I'm no longer privy to the classified information, I don't know exactly what that means.

I don't know if that means that they are missing some elements of their force, like the logistics, or the rocket and artillery force, or they haven't just placed aircraft into the area. I'm just not sure what that means.

But at the same time, you have to take a look at what the potential courses of actions might be. You know, in the military judges most likely and most dangerous, the least likely course of action. So I think they may be judging the potential of using that conventional force in various scenarios.

And truthfully, I'm not sure that's the way it's going to go down. I think we're going to see, if Mr. Putin does make the very bad and rash decision to go into Ukraine, he's going to start off with some things that aren't going to be the conventional course. That is, the tanks and the BMPs and the ground forces coming across the border.

There are going to be some other indicators first before he launches a conventional attack force, if he -- if he does decide to do that, which I personally don't think he will.

HOLMES: Yes. Well, a lot of people think that, you know, one perhaps easier option is to go into the east in Donbass, where he's already got forces, and have a Crimea-type situation.

But I wanted to ask you, though, are you worried that Putin, the man, wouldn't back down with nothing to show for all of these moves? The expense, the effort that's gone into putting this in place? What are the dangers of him feeling cornered with everything there, and no concessions?

HERTLING: Well, there certainly is a danger in that. That's for sure. But I think the Biden administration and the NATO leadership, together, have made it clear to him that any additional attacks into Ukraine will be met with a corresponding series of actions. Whether that's sanctions, whether it's a penalty to oligarchs, whether it's sanctions on the world stage.

So I think he's troubled by considering what may happen to him. But make no mistake, Michael. Whatever does happen, Russia will be seen as a pariah. Putin will be seen as a near, if not potential war criminal for attacking a sovereign nation. And he is going to be finding himself in a very difficult situation for an attack.

[00:10:07]

Now, it goes back to your question. Can he find a way out of this? And this is what's been the interesting dynamic, because he has established such a huge force, almost two-thirds of his military on the Ukrainian border.

And that's difficult to pull back from. But knowing Mr. Putin, he has always tried to shove that ban in, and until they made steel, and then that's when he withdraws. How you address it is going to be interesting to watch.

HOLMES: In the hypothetical scenario that he does go, he invades, and he holds Ukraine, there will certainly be an insurgency. We know that. And he knows that, because he went through -- he knows what happened in Afghanistan.

But what will it mean, if he was in there, for NATO's posture in Europe? Basically, what's NATO going to do about it?

HERTLING: You're going to see, I think, your position about an insurgency is a very important one to discuss. Because it will happen.

If he wants Ukraine and Ukrainians' army developed over the last decade plus, during a time when I was working them, and then with them, and then even after they had left. It's a strong force. I mean, you're talking about 250,000-plus soldiers under arms, first of all

And as you said, a population that has become very patriotic. And interestingly enough, Putin has pulled that population together to counter him, as well as some of the other states in NATO.

And when you're talking about an alliance, it certainly does look like a big buildup on his border, over 130,000, and possibly more coming in the next few weeks.

Take a look at starting to count up the forces and all the European, NATO forces that will oppose this kind of move. And you would quickly see Russia being overwhelmed.

They might go in, and there would certainly be an insurgency by Ukrainians' -- Ukraine's population. But you also have to consider the fact that, with all the other NATO countries going against him, he would not be able to sustain supply lines. He would not be able to sustain overflight. There would be continued pressure on his border at other locations. Other countries might rise up.

So Mr. Putin would find himself in a very precarious situation if he decided to go in. And he -- HOLMES: Yes. It's a scary hypothetical. It is well worth discussing, especially with your experience. Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, as always, thanks.

HERTLING: Pleasure, Michael. Thank you.

HOLMES: Day three of the Winter Olympics underway in Beijing. But the games are also putting the spotlight on an athlete who isn't competing, Chinese tennis star Peng Shuai.

IOC president Thomas Bach had promised to meet her in person during the games, but it was unclear when. Well, now we've learned their meeting took place Saturday in Beijing.

Peng made headlines last year after accusing a top Chinese official of sexual assault, then disappearing from public view.

For more, let's go to CNN's Steven Jiang, standing by live in Beijing. What more do we know about this meeting, and the latest on Peng Shuai' and her welfare?

STEVEN JIANG, CNN BEIJING BUREAU CHIEF: Well, Michael, we know Peng Shuai and Thomas Bach, the IOC president, had dinner at the Olympic club in Beijing on Saturday.

Now, the two apparently talked about their common experiences. The athletes with Peng expressing regret at not being able to qualify for the Tokyo Games last year.

But, also saying she would like to go visit Bach in Lausanne, Switzerland, where the IOC is based, when the pandemic is over.

Now, according to the IOC, the two did not talk about her sexual assault allegations. A spokesman for the IOC, just a short while ago, actually said the IOC, it's not up to the IOC to, quote unquote, "pass judgment" on whether or not Peng will speak under duress. Really reiterating that rather controversial position, that IOC as a sporting organization, could only keep in touch with athletes that conduct so- called quiet diplomacy.

But what's more interesting here is Peng actually spoke to a foreign media outlet, her second time to do so, just a few hours ago. But this time, to a well-respected but highly specialized French outlet, known for its coverage in sports and tennis.

Doing this nearly hour-long interview today, actually, Peng said that, again, denied she has ever made sexual assault allegations against former vice premier Zhang Gaoli.

But she appeared to acknowledge their years-long affair by saying that her love life problems, her personal life, should not be mingled with sports and politics.

But also, of course, again saying that she's been safe, well, and free ever since the international storm her original post created. But she did say that she actually deleted that post herself after that post attracted so much attention.

[00:15:07]

But at least she seemed to say she did write the original post.

Now, of course, as you know, the WTA, the Women's Tennis Association, has suspended all tournaments in China because of safety concerns over her safety. But, for the first time, Peng said she actually personally wrote back to the head of the WTA after receiving email and text message from the organization.

So, again, this is, you know, only the second time we have heard from Peng, speaking to international media outlets. But the thing is, I think, as long as Xi is here in China, where the government and the party maintains absolute control over every aspect of society, I think there are still going to be a lot of skepticism and concerns around the world about her -- Michael.

HOLMES: Yes, and even that interview, tightly controlled. Questions had to be submitted in advance and so on.

I wanted to ask you, too, about the Chinese skater, Zhu Yi. American- born, skating for China. Not getting a great reception.

JIANG: That's right. You know, this 19-year-old skater, as you said, born and raised in California but has since moved to China and become a naturalized athlete, to really make her Olympic debut for Team China.

And, when -- actually, when she competed, she tumbled and crashed into a wall, then missed a second jump. And after that, she was really a target of attacks online, with people calling her a disgrace and questioning whether or not she should be selected for -- to represent China in the first place. And even questioning her inability to speak Mandarin fluently.

So this is really a cautionary tale, if you will, for the wave of athletes, especially of Chinese descent, to -- to come to China and become a nationalized and compete with China. Because this sports system does exert a tremendous pressure on athletes to perform to get results, to get medals at these international competitions.

Obviously, her you know, recession starts in contrast to Ailing Gu, that freestyle prodigy, if you will, that's been getting so much attention because of her performance of a huge following and huge commercial deals. But you know, Zhu Yi's story does show the other side of all this -- Michael.

HOLMES: Yes. Yes, savaged on social media. Really sad.

Steven Jiang in Beijing, thanks so much.

All right, it is shaping up to be an exciting Monday in Beijing. We'll have a look at all the action coming up on WORLD SPORT in about 30 minutes or so from now. Meanwhile, coming up here on CNN NEWSROOM after the break, a state of

emergency in Ottawa, Canada, after protests over a vaccine mandate and COVID restrictions stretch into a second weekend. We'll have the latest when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:21:43]

HOLMES: We are following the latest developments on the COVID-19 pandemic around the world.

Now, in the coming hours, Chile will be rolling out its second booster vaccine dose to people ages 55 and up. Chile has found extraordinary success with vaccine updates. About 90 percent of the population, fully vaccinated.

In Russia, where cases have been hitting record highs, Moscow is shortening the self-isolation period for those who are asymptomatic. Beginning on Monday, those who test positive in the city will be able to end their isolation period after seven days, if there are no symptoms.

And in southwestern China, millions now under lockdown after mass testing revealed more COVID cases. CNN's Ivan Watson joins me now live from Hong Kong.

And Ivan, you're hearing Australia is moving to welcome back travelers and Thailand looking to reopen.

IVAN WATSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we're seeing signs here in Asia, which has been far more restrictive about international travel than other parts of the world, of countries starting to open up.

The Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announcing that as of February 21, all fully-vaccinated visa holders will be allowed into the country.

In -- in past months, Australia was very restrictive. There were tens of thousands of Australian citizens who were stranded outside the country because of the expensive mandatory hotel quarantines that they'd have to face coming in.

Scott Morrison saying, Hey, things are about to loosen up substantially and telling the tourism industry to get ready.

And we're hearing similar messages coming from Thailand, which had launched and then had to stop a kind of open border policy last month. And now it says it's going ahead with its test and go scheme. It started it last week.

And the idea there is you apply in advance. You take a PCR test before you get on the plane. And then you have to do to two tests after you get into the country. Again, this is for fully-vaccinated people. Thailand has taken such an enormous hit to its economy over the last

two years. It went from having around 40 million tourists a year in 2019 to about 230,000 in 2021. And the government there is anticipating substantial numbers of tourists starting to come in.

While these two countries are opening up, China has indicated that its zero-tolerance approach to COVID will not change. The chief epidemiologist at the Chinese Centers for Disease Control telling the state-run "Global Times" that it is going to stick with its policy.

And we're seeing that, as you mentioned, in the southern city of Baise (ph), where about 4 million people have been ordered to stay indoors, except when they go for mandatory COVID tests or to get groceries. And that is after several dozen people tested positive in that city.

China is not going to change its approach. If you get COVID, expect your neighborhood to get locked down very strictly -- Michael.

HOLMES: All right. Ivan, appreciate it. Ivan Watson there in Hong Kong for us.

Now, anger over COVID measures is spreading across Canada as demonstrations spill into a second weekend. The mayor of Ottawa issuing a state of emergency for the capital in an effort to get a handle on protests he called out of control.

CNN's Paula Newton with more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The protests here against the COVID-19 measures started in Ottawa but have spread right across the country.

Sunday was much quieter than Saturday. But you still had hundreds of tractor-trailers and other trucks and thousands of people spread out from one side of the country to the other, demanding an end to those COVID-19 restrictions.

Now, this started out as a truckers' protests. They were against vaccine mandates to actually cross the border into the United States.

But this has turned into so much more, people saying that they are fed up with the mask mandates, the vaccine mandates, the lockdowns, the health restrictions. They just want it to end. It is a minority, but it is a very vocal minority.

And, here in Ottawa it has really taken this city to a point where the mayor and the police chief are worried that they just can't handle it anymore. The city of Ottawa has declared a state of emergency, but I really want you to listen to the police chief here when he spoke this weekend about the city. Take a listen.

CHIEF PETER SLOLY, OTTAWA POLICE SERVICE: The oaths of office that I and my office have swore were never intended to deal with a city under siege, a threat to our democracy, a nationwide insurrection driven by madness. There is no concrete plan for such a scenario as you've described.

NEWTON: They are really categorized as an occupation now. And although Ottawa police say they will begin enforcement, wary police forces and leaders right across the country are keeping a close eye on what happens in this city. And seeing if, in fact, protesters do decide to finally leave, or if this will continue to spread like a contagion, really, right across the country.

Paula Newton, CNN, Ottawa.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Polls are now closed in Costa Rica as the nation votes for its next president. A record 25 candidates are in the race, and the election is likely headed to a runoff, because no one, of course, is expected to reach the 40 percent threshold to avoid that happening.

Voters also deciding all 57 seats of the country's legislative assembly.

Here for more analysis now is CNN correspondent Rafael Romo. Good to see you, Rafael.

So it seems a former president will advance to the second round. But he hasn't even been in power since 1998.

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's correct. It's been 24 years, Michael, since Jose Maria Figueres, a businessman and former president, was in office. But he had a very strong showing for this first round of elections. He's nearing 30 percent of the vote. These are preliminary results. But it seems like he will be the one candidate, so far, that will advance to the run-up.

It remains to be seen who is going to be his rival. There's a field of about three candidates who are very close to each other, but out of those three, Rodrigo Chavez, who held several positions at the World Bank and was also finance minister of Costa Rica between 2019 and 2020, he may be the No. 2 guy who advances to that second round in Costa Rica elections to be held on April 3.

And now, the showing from the electorate was very strong, as well, 60 percent in Costa Rica. It's one of the most stable democracies in Latin America. The election was held in a very peaceful matter, a very orderly manner. There weren't any incidents to be reported.

But, very interesting, Michael, that the party of current president Carlos Alvarado garnered less than 1 percent of the vote. Analysts that we talked to say that that's a punishment vote because things didn't really go to well.

And one sentiment from the electorate that helped Mr. Figueres, who is advancing to the second round, is that feeling of the wellbeing that Costa Rica had in the 1990s. And people associate Figueres with that feeling.

So, everything is set for the run-up election on April 3. Michael, back to you.

HOLMES: We have a reminiscent candidate. Rafael, good to see you. Thanks for that.

Still to come here on the program, it's time to recycle your ideas about recycling. I talk with an expert about the harmful things you could be throwing away with the best of intentions. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:33:06]

HOLMES: Now, turning to a problem hurting the environment, caused by a desire to help the environment. It is called "wish-cycling": when people put things in the recycle bin, hoping they'll be recycled, without actually knowing if they can be.

Now, despite our best intentions, many of these products end up in landfills, never to be re-used. The entire process takes a toll on sorting systems, equipment, and a substantial labor team needed to pick through the items.

Now, a number of factors contribute to the problem, including incorrect labeling on some items, which leads to a buildup of materials which just can't be recycled.

The U.S. also has a backlog of waste, after China tightened restrictions on what types of scrap materials could be brought in from other countries.

And experts say we need to rely less on single-use plastics and put much more investments into upgrading our recycling systems.

Kate O'Neill is a professor in global environmental governance and global waste politics at the University of California, Berkeley. She's also the author of, "Waste Trading Among Rich Nations: Building a New Theory of Environmental Regulation."

Great to have you here, Professor. I mean, I -- and such an interesting topic. I checked around the NEWSROOM, and most of us here are guilty of this. See something without a recycling stamp, put it in, hoping it can be recycled. But what's the damage in that?

KATE O'NEILL, PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, BERKELEY: Yes. You know, it's a universal thing, this thing called wish-cycling, which is, you know, we really want to recycle. We're -- sort of born and bred in us to want to kind of save things.

But in fact, if we put things into the recycling bin that don't belong there just because we think they might be, they might actually contaminate and destroy everything that's already in the bin.

So you know, if you take your -- your half-full jar of mayonnaise, and just throw it in the recycling, that's a contaminant, and that means that the whole lot could be thrown out.

[00:35:07]

HOLMES: Wow.

O'NEILL: So this is really, really common. And something I think all of us do.

HOLMES: Yes, one thing that's always worried me is, you know, I put out the recycling. It gets picked up, but then is it all recycled? Or does some or all end up in the landfill, depending on where you are? I mean, is the recycling system effective?

O'NEILL: The recycling system is pretty broken. And I think it's -- it's clear that -- easy to say that.

And a lot of what we put historically, too, that we put into the blue bin just winds up being thrown out at the sorting station. And most significantly, for the last couple of years, there's often no market for those recycled goods.

So you put some plastic or some paper that's totally recyclable in the bin, and there's nowhere that -- that the sorters, the collectors, can sell it on to.

One of the reasons is that China closed its doors to importing all of this stuff. So that means it gets thrown out, or landfilled. And only the best stuff, especially plastics. And plastics are the really big stickler here to get actually recycled and reused.

HOLMES: What about manufacturers? I mean, are they doing enough to sort of redesign products and packaging into things that can be readily and easily recycled?

O'NEILL: Yes, there's a few things that they're doing. And I think we are seeing some real commitment on the part of a lot of producers.

You have the big companies like Pepsi or Coke, that are committing to having quite a high percentage of their packaging be recycled, or secondary plastics.

And you have people who are trying to make things out of recycled plastic, trying to create a market for it. We are doing better with paper, and paper has always been quite recyclable. We're developing more facilities here to deal with them.

So, it's a complicated -- it's a complicated move forward, but probably, the most important thing is just simply to be designing the non-recyclable content out --

HOLMES: Right.

O'NEILL: -- in the first place.

HOLMES: And to that point, is recycling even the solution anymore? Or is it part of the problem? I mean, when we think things can be recycled, it makes us feel better about buying single-use things, packaging, and so on. It just perpetuates a waste problem, instead of solving it. I mean, should the system be more designed around reusing?

O'NEILL: Yes. A lot of people say we should toss recycling out, and I'm not one of those people. Because I do think that there are things that we need to pass on, that have afterlives. Other people can use them and repair them, if that's possible, and reprocess them.

But yes, we really need to be thinking about reusing, and again, not buying as much disposable stuff.

HOLMES: Yes. Yes, I know. I -- I have, like, a tiny amount of garbage, every week, and I have a full recycling can.

I mean, have there been -- are there advances in using recycled material? I mean, turning it into something useful? I bought a pair of sneakers in London, made from recycled plastic water bottles. Is there enough of that going on?

O'NEILL: There's not enough of that going on. But I think it's a really cool idea. I mean, I have my favorite pair of lockdown sweatpants, is made from recycled plastic. And they're great. They were really expensive, certainly for my budget.

So there are things like that happening, but again, I think what we're looking -- trying to push for are these -- these big companies to really start thinking about incorporating, like, secondary-use plastics, recycled plastics, into their -- what they use for packaging and so on. I say that as sort of that's a low-hanging fruit, as we like to say.

HOLMES: Yes. We're running out of time, but I just -- I'll get your answer real quick. So if you're not sure something can be recycled, what do you do?

O'NEILL: Throw it out.

HOLMES: OK. Yes. Good advice.

O'NEILL: Yes.

HOLMES: This is a huge issue. I'm passionate about recycling. Hopefully, they can sort it out. Kate O'Neill, good to see you. Thanks so much.

O'NEILL: Great. Thanks so much for having me on.

HOLMES: Still to come here on the program, why Iceland plans to end the once lucrative business of commercial whaling.

You're watching CNN NEWSROOM. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:41:10] HOLMES: All right. Look closely at this video about in the middle of your screen there. Those tiny black dots on the ice floe, well, they're people. Eighteen snowmobilers had to be rescued after a huge chunk of ice

broke away from land in Lake Erie. Now, according to the Coast Guard, no one needed medical attention.

The National Weather Service had warned earlier that conditions were dangerous and urged people to stay off the ice around the lakeshore. So of course, some people didn't.

Iceland says it will end whaling in 2024. The country's minister of Fisheries and Agriculture says there's not much demand for it, and economically, it's just not viable anymore with hardly any big whales caught in the last three years.

She also acknowledged how controversial whale hunting is.

Iceland stopping commercial whaling in the 1990s but picked it up again in 2006. It angered conservationists, who accused he country of trying to bypass international regulations.

Some good news for the whales there.

Thanks for watching and spending part of your day with me. I'm Michael Holmes. You can follow me on Twitter and Instagram, @HolmesCNN.

Do stick around, though. Patrick Snell is ready to bring you WORLD SPORT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:45:25]

(WORLD SPORT)

[00:57:52]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)