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More States Planning to End Mask Mandates As COVID Cases Drop; VP Harris' Husband Ushered Off Stage at DC High School Due to "Security Threat"; Fulton County D.A. Casts Doubt on Argument Trump Can't Be Prosecuted for Potential Crimes Committed in Office. Aired 3- 3:30p ET

Aired February 08, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:00:43]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: It's the top of the hour on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Alisyn Camerota.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: I'm Victor Blackwell. It's good to be with you.

Connecticut and Delaware announced some mask requirements will end this month. New Jersey, California, Oregon, they set a timeline to roll back mandates in March. New York Governor Kathy Hochul will announce her decision on whether to lift or keep masks in schools and businesses. That's coming tomorrow.

CAMEROTA: Many health officials agree the data shows it's safe to take off masks now but others think it still too soon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: I think this is the right time for governors and local officials all around the country to lay out their pathway to removing indoor mask mandates. This is a very different time compared to last year.

DR. TOM FRIEDEN, FORMER CDC DIRECTOR: The states that are saying March, mid-March and March, that makes a lot of sense. To stop them next week, California's rate is twice what Connecticut's rate is. So, I think you got a little bit of a problem there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Well, the White House and the CDC have yet to offer a clear plan on rolling back COVID prevention measures. But they maintain schools should stick to CDC guidelines and keep masks on.

Let's bring in professor and dean of tropical medicine at Baylor College of Medicine, Dr. Peter Hotez. He's also the co-director at the Center for Vaccine Development at Texas Children's Hospital.

Dr. Hotez, always great to see you. Isn't it like a metric? Each state setting up a metric of its own when

you get below this particular positivity rate in the community or this particular hospitalization rate in a community then you can take off the masks. I mean, am I oversimplifying how they should do it?

DR. PETER HOTEZ, DEAN OF THE NATIONAL SCHOOL OF TROPICAL MEDICINE, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: Yeah, but you know, actually, it's a little more complicated than that, more nuanced. Here's why, Alisyn, it's called BA.2. This is the sub variant that's even more transmissible than the omicron variant. It's now here in the United States. And we'll know whether it will accelerate like in the U.K. and Denmark, or whether the numbers are going to continue to go down.

So, it's kind of like Groundhog Day. We don't know right now if winter is about to end and we're going to go through a spring thaw of COVID- 19 or we're in for another six weeks of this because of the BA.2.

So, I think it's fine to set aspirational dates. But keep in mind that it all could get thrown out the window if BA.2 starts to accelerate. So, that's I think the big thing that we really need to consider at this point.

BLACKWELL: Okay. You say set aspirational dates. Sounds like you agree that a week from now, two weeks from now, the end of the month is too soon to start lifting these mask mandates.

HOTEZ: Well, the truth is that BA.2 never shows up or never rears its ugly head. Two weeks from now may be okay. But it's probably -- so that's why I'm actually not a big fan of setting dates. Let's see how the trajectory goes and once the number gets down below a certain threshold, that it looks like BA.2 is not accelerating, then you can say, OK, next week the masks can come off. But I don't know that you need to necessarily set those aspirational dates now unless you just want to say, assuming everything looks good, we can move forward in that direction.

CAMEROTA: Are you saying that for people who have been infected by omicron and so many people have, that BA.2 would re-infect them or would they have some immunity against it?

HOTEZ: They would likely have some immunity against it. A lot of people have not been infected with omicron and they've been infected say with delta and have not gotten vaccinated on top of them. So, they're still going to be susceptible. We still have a lot of unvaccinated, under-vaccinated individuals who've not seen any virus infection and they're going to be susceptible. Ands you may see some omicron BA.2 reinfections as well.

But, you know, clearly, what we've seen in the U.K. is the numbers started going down, about 2/3 of the way, and then they got stuck. They got stuck because of the BA.2. And in Denmark, things really accelerated.

So -- but it's odds because in some countries, BA.2 doesn't seem to be that much of an issue. So, why BA.2 accelerating in some countries but not others is still an unknown. [15:05:02]

We now know BA.2 is here in small numbers and by next week at this time, we'll have a much better idea of how that trajectory is going.

BLACKWELL: So, let's talk about this new study in the journal JAMA, the Network Open, found that 6.1 percent of children who tested positive for COVID were hospitalized. That's one in every 15 or 16 children. That's seems remarkably high for children, 13.9 percent had severe disease. Nearly 8 percent required ventilation and a lot of those conditions and characteristics that made children more susceptible. We saw them mirrored in the adult population.

HOTEZ: Yeah. It's a heterogeneous group and some of those kids were admitted for other reasons. They got tested and found to be positive incidentally. We've seen this since the beginning with omicron in South Africa. But we're seeing severe disease both in really little kids as well as adolescents as well.

So, you know, we've been saying, we have to stop thinking about COVID- 19 purely as an illness of older Americans. We are seeing teenagers and younger kids getting pretty sick. And guess what? That's why we need pediatric vaccines. And so, the faster we can roll that out, the better. And the better rates of acceptance that we can get, that's going to be really important, because the country as a whole is underperforming terribly in terms of pediatric vaccinations.

CAMEROTA: Let's look at the kids are who are most susceptible. And it's interesting, the factors for hospitalization for kids, if you are a boy, it's higher. Obese. If you're black, it's higher. And then if you have an underlying preexisting condition.

I understand the obesity. I understand the pre-existing condition like cancer, heart disease, lung disease. Why if you're a boy and/or black?

HOTEZ: Well, we've seen this with certain viral infections that we do see some sex predilection and some racial and ethnic differences. There's a whole branch of infectious disease devoted to genetics of the response of the infection. There's that link. And so, we have seen African-American kids get hit hard, even some Hispanic kids during the first waves of the infection.

It's hard to use that information to predict on an individual basis but it's a reminder why we need to vaccinate our kids especially in some of our low income communities. That needs to be a priority.

BLACKWELL: All right. Dr. Peter Hotez, thank you, sir.

HOTEZ: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: OK. Let's update you on this breaking news that we just got. Second gentleman Doug Inhofe was ushered out of a room at a D.C. high school. There was a security threat that was reported by the school.

CNN's MJ Lee is with us now. Also with us on the phone is CNN law enforcement analyst and former secret service agent, Jonathan Wackrow.

MJ, get us up to speed on what we know about how this happened.

MJ LEE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. So, here is what we know right now. The second gentleman Doug Inhofe was intending an event at a local Washington, D.C. high school. This was in celebration of black history month. I know we have a picture of him at this event from the reporters that were on the ground, and a short while ago, he was ushered out of the room by the security that was on the ground because of a security threat.

Now, we are still waiting to get clarity and more information on what exactly happened. But what we know is that according to the Metropolitan Police Department spokesperson, there was a bomb threat. What they have told us in the last few minutes is that the bomb squad is currently still on the scene and we are really relying as of this moment on the reporters that are on the ground.

And according to this pool report, the time line is that the second gentleman was taken out by a secret agent, taken out of the room by a secret agent at 2:18 p.m. The agent could be heard saying words to the affect of, we have to go.

A short time later at around 2:34 p.m., that's when there was an announcement overhead for every one else to evacuate, including the reporters there in the room. Now, we just got another update from the reporters on the ground that the principal of the school told reporters that their protocol essentially is to get the kids out of the school and the kids out of the situation and so, they have been told to send the kids home.

Now, as I mentioned before, White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki is briefing reporters and she was asked at the top of the briefing whether she has any information. She says she has no details to share at the moment. But that if she does get anything while the briefing is going on that she would update reporters in the room. So, we are keeping our ears on that briefing as well.

CAMEROTA: OK. So, Jonathan, you were a Secret Service agent, if we still have Jonathan. You were a Secret Service agent -- oh, you're on the phone -- under President Obama.

[15:10:04]

And so, I mean, obviously, without revealing anything confidential, when you get a bomb scare into an event where dignitary is, what happens?

How fast do you have to move to get that person out of that room?

JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST (via telephone): So, Alisyn, probably what we're seeing here is Secret Service following their protocols, right? They train for this all the time with their protectees. They train as a group to identify threats and then mitigate the situation based upon the totality of the circumstances. So, here what we're dealing with is a bomb threat. Any time you have

that, the Secret Service their protocol is to create distance from the known location of a threat and the protectee. So, in this case, the Secret Service acting very swiftly once there was a threat potentially identified, they are going to remove the protectee from that environment as quickly and as safely as possible. Now, the protectee could remain on site in a safe location or most instances they have already departed the site in route to the White House or residence or another location that has opinion predetermined.

BLACKWELL: All right. Some important insight there from a former Secret Service agent.

Jonathan Wackrow, MJ Lee, stay with us. We're going to, as we get more, bring it to every one about this bomb threat. This bomb scare at Dunbar High School where the second gentleman was this afternoon. Thank you, both.

CAMEROTA: Okay. Next, the prosecutor says former president Trump cannot hide from the law. She's investigating his efforts to overturn the 2020 election and says this is not a game.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FANI WILLIS, GEORGIA PROSECUTOR: It doesn't matter if you're rich, poor, Black, White, Democrat or Republican. If you violated the law, you're going to be charged.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: And Florida's governor weighs in on the state's so-called "don't say gay" bill. It took a step forward in the state legislature today.

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CAMEROTA: CNN just sat down with the Atlanta area district attorney investigating Donald Trump to over turn the 2020 election.

BLACKWELL: Fani Willis says that she has identified more than 100 witnesses and met with former president's attorneys twice and she is pushing back on the argument that President Trump can't be prosecuted for potential crimes committed during his term in office.

Here is what she said to CNN Sarah Murray.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FANI WILLIAMS, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, FULTON COUNTY, GEORGIA: This is a criminal investigation. We're not here playing a game. I plan to use the power of the law. We are all citizens. Mr. Trump, just as every American citizen is entitled to dignity. He's entitled to be treated fairly. He will be treated fairly in this jurisdiction, but I plan to do my

job. And my job is to make sure that we get the evidence that gives us the truth. I'm not concerned at all about games to delay this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig joins us now. He's a former federal prosecutor. Also with us, Kim Wehle, she's a former assistant U.S. attorney and law professor at the University of Baltimore.

Welcome to you both.

Elie, let me start with you. D.A. Willis says, of course, she's giving thought to that maybe raised a legal issue that the former president can't be charged for potential crimes during his term. She doesn't think protection will prevent a prosecution if that becomes necessary in this case.

Is it as clear as she states it or is there a strong argument to the contrary?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Victor, we don't have any clear pres dent on this because it's never happened before. No one has ever tried to prosecute a former president. Rest assured, if the district attorney down in Georgia does try to charge the former president for conduct relating to his time in office, he absolutely will make a motion to dismiss that case. He absolutely will argue that it's unconstitutional, in particular for state or county level prosecutor to bring this charge as opposed to the United States Department of Justice.

And you heard the D.A. there reference the possibility of delay. We absolutely are likely, if there ever is charge, we don't know that. If there is a charge, count on this issue going up through the appellate courts in Georgia, potentially over to the federal courts, potentially up to the U.S. Supreme Court.

CAMEROTA: Kim, we all heard this phone call that President Trump made to Brad Raffensperger. What's taking so long?

KIM WEHLE, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY: Yeah, I don't know. That's actually something I've wondered as well. You know, my guess is there's charges related to that particular call. They might be looking at this would be unprecedented. They are being very careful as the district attorney mentioned.

But let me just say, I happen to have written a 50-page law review article published in Stanford Journal last year on this very topic. There's a very weak, weak legal argument, it's not anywhere in the United States code. It's nowhere in the Supreme Court precedent. It's an internal memo in the Justice Department, saying that a sitting president can't be prosecuted and the rationale is they can't do their job while they're in the Oval Office.

I really think, even if there were to get up to the Supreme Court, if you want to fast forward, I agree with Elie, this would be litigated. I think even with this highly conservative, almost radical Supreme Court, I think it would lose because there's no "there" there. And this president has crossed so many boundaries and there's so much, I think, awe and sort of shock at the fact that he's Teflon Don and seems to slip away from everything.

[15:20:04]

That if she builds a strong case on what you mentioned, Alisyn, an audio recording with multiple witnesses there and spoke before the call to him and after about his knowledge and intent, you know, I think it would be very difficult for a court on constitutional grounds to not let that kind of a prosecution move forward.

BLACKWELL: Elie, we are learning so much from the documents handed over to the 1/6 committee from the National Archives, not only the content but the handling of those documents. Some of them torn into pieces. Others that had to be collected from Mar-a-Lago. For this former president who was so critical of Secretary Clinton's handling of documents and record, the irony is biting.

Let's get a reminder from the 2016 campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT: People who have nothing to have don't smash phones with hammers. They don't. People who have nothing to hide don't bleach -- nobody's ever heard of it -- don't bleach their e- mails or destroy evidence to keep it from being publicly archived as required under federal law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Pot, kettle. I mean, we're not talking about hammers and bleaching e-mails, but ripping them up and taking them in boxes to your resort in Florida, are we treating this with the seriousness we deserve? Some people say it's corky but this is more than that.

HONIG: Yeah, maybe more than that, Victor. And Donald Trump is really quite spot on actually in that clip in his discussion of the law. I mean, clearly, what Donald Trump did violates the law. There's a law called the Presidential Records Act that says you can't take it with you. It's mo more the property of Donald J. Trump than the china in the White House or, you know, the paintings on the wall. There's no question he broke the Presidential Records Act.

The problem is that law doesn't have any enforcement mechanism. However, if what he did crosses that line that he highlighted, if he was trying to get rid of document, tear up document, take them with him because he's trying to avoid some sort of investigation or frustrate investigators, then you could be crossing the line into potential criminal conduct. So, there's a lot more we need to know about this. Was he doing with some criminal purpose?

CAMEROTA: Well, he says nobody would ever do it if not for a criminal purpose. I mean, he -- that -- those were his words. Why would you ever destroy documents?

Remember, there were rallies that said "lock her up, lock her up". Where are all the protests and rallies saying "lock him up"? He destroyed -- tore up countless historical records and documents. These are the people's documents.

I mean, again, Kim, obviously, the hypocrisy is so stunning. I don't know what more to say about this but why wouldn't he be prosecuted for all this?

WEHLE: Well, a few points. I mean, I think there's a tsunami of stuff that needs to be unpacked with Donald Trump and the January 6 committee's number one challenge isn't that there's anything to look at or potential wrongdoing, but the clock is running out to midterms.

Number two, as Elie say, it's actually a crime to destroy willfully government records. Keep in mind also that Donald Trump left office knowing there were ongoing investigations, multiple investigations of him. So, this isn't just Donald Trump as a private citizen who reportedly tears stuff up.

I think the defense would be, listen, I do that. I'm a businessman. But there was already pending litigation. So, that question of intent is a problem. And I think the last piece has to do with the fact we have professional archive is taping together document at the taxpayer's expense which is a problem.

CAMEROTA: Elie Honig, Kim Wehle, thank you.

WEHLE: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: Florida's so called "don't say gay" bill is moving through the state legislature and Governor Ron DeSantis indicated he will sign it. Some are still fighting it. We'll talk about that, next.

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[15:28:53]

CAMEROTA: Florida's controversial don't say gay bill was just approved by the state's senate's education committee. It could ban teachers and school administrators from encouraging discussions in some elementary classrooms about sexual orientation and gender identity.

Florida's Republican Governor Ron DeSantis thinks it's a good idea.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R), FLORIDA: One of the things that I think the legislatures are getting at is anything should be age appropriate. I think some would say these young kids, elementary school kids, I think that's wrong to have them being involved with things that aren't age appropriate. And so, you know, I haven't looked at any particulars of anything but I do think you've seen instances in which kids are encouraged to be doing stuff with a gender ideology. I think the parents really do need to be involved in that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Let's bring in Shevrin Jones, Democratic senator in the Florida state legislature.

Senator, great to see you.

You've said this "don't say gay" bill will make the state of Florida a more dangerous place to live. How does it change how it works to be a student in school there?

STATE SENATOR SHEVRIN JONES (D), FLORIDA: Well, first of all, thank you for having me.