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Trucker Protests Coming to U.S.?; Did Trump Flush Presidential Records?; Inflation Surging. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired February 10, 2022 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:01]

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: For everything else covered by Medicare, a doctor's visit, they negotiate and say, we will pay no more than this much for a doctor's visit.

So, if the doctors don't want to take any Medicare patients, they don't have to. But if they have a Medicare patient, which there are millions of them, they cannot charge more than a certain amount.

Crutches. We limit the amount of money they can pay for crutches. But, but Medicare can negotiate everything except drug prices, the only other thing they can't deal with.

My plan is going to allow Medicare to negotiate the prices they are prepared to pay for each individual drug. If the company says, I'm not going to sell it to you for that price, fine. But they're going to lose millions of customers, millions of customers.

We're proposing -- what we're proposing is that we negotiate fair prices, one that reflects the cost of research and development and the need for significant profit, but still is affordable and has some relationship to the cost of the drug company had.

My plan also caps the amount that seniors on Medicare have to spend on prescription drugs each year in total, so that,if they're on Medicare, they will not have to spend out of pocket more than $2,000 a year, no matter how many drugs they're taking, with drug companies, insurance companies, and medicine -- and Medicare picking up the rest of the cost.

And, just last month, to bring greater transparency to health care costs, my administration outlawed surprise billing. I have had significant experience with hospital care. My son Beau, who was attorney general of Delaware and a won the Bronze Star in Iraq -- excuse me -- in dealing with being deployed overseas for a long time, for a year -- he came back with glioblastoma and he died. But you know what? The fact is that -- and I was hospitalized a long

time. I had a couple of years ago a cranial aneurysm, was hospitalized a long time. And you can no longer get that surprise billings we got. If your health care plan did not cover a particular doctor, and you didn't even know you were being consulted, and you get an extra bill for $2,000 to $5,000, they can't do that anymore. No more surprise billing. No more.

Millions of hardworking Americans will no longer have to worry about unexpected medical bills. And Abigail has been making sure that we bring the same transparency to drug prices.

A couple of years ago, Abigail worked to pass bipartisan...

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

We will keep monitoring this, as President Biden is there speaking in Virginia about rising health care costs, as he also lays out some plans to lower prescription drug costs, just one area where prices are on the rise.

And we have a new inflation report to break down for you coming up.

But, first, we have some breaking news. The House committee that's investigating the January 6 attack on the Capitol has made a troubling discovery as it sifts through records from the Trump White House. Three sources close to the investigation say there are significant gaps in the records turned over by the National Archives, gaps having to do with the president's communication the day of the riot, specifically during the riot, no record of any calls, even though we know he spoke to members of Congress.

And this revelation comes amid growing concerns that Donald Trump routinely ignored the preservation of presidential records, as required by federal law.

Let's bring in CNN's Ryan Nobles.

Ryan, give us the details on your new reporting.

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ana, this is no doubt something that is a great source of concern to the January 6 Select Committee.

They were hoping that this information that they fought for and won a court battle over that they received from the National Archives that the former president sued to keep secret would provide them some insight into who the former president was talking to at the height of all the violence and chaos here at the Capitol.

And what they have discovered in this initial tranche of documents, in these records that are supposed to give this information that they're looking for, that there are just significant gaps of information, inaccurate and incomplete information as to who the president was talking to, and for how long, particularly during that period of time when he returned back from the White House until he gave that speech from the Rose Garden.

I'm told by the sources that have looked at these documents that there are no records of any phone calls either on the White House switchboard log or on the daily diary which track the president's movements.

Now, there are records of phone calls that the president made earlier in the day, before he went to give that speech, including, of course, the story that we broke last week about the 10-minute phone call with Jim Jordan, but there are other examples of where there are just gaps in the record.

For instance, there is a notation these records of the president attempting to get In touch with the former Vice President Mike Pence, but Pence is not available to take the call. There's no record of Pence returning the call.

[13:05:12]

But the committee has said that, during their interview, their deposition with Keith Kellogg, Vice President Pence's national security adviser, that he was in the Oval Office when Trump spoke to Pence in the morning before the rally.

So that's just one example of this gap in information. Now, Ana, the sources that I have talked to that have reviewed these records stress that they don't believe that this is the end-all/be-all of their investigation. They're hoping they can get this information from other sources.

And, of course, there are still documents that the Archives have yet to hand over to the committee that may provide some of this information. But these are the key records where this information should be -- Ana.

CABRERA: And, obviously there's a big question about why those records are missing right now. And it comes as we have new reporting that Trump flushed papers down the toilet.

This is coming from an upcoming book by "New York Times" reporter Maggie Haberman. Let's listen to what she told CNN this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I learned that staff in the White House residence would periodically find the toilet clogged. The engineer would have to come and fix it.

And what the engineer would find would be wads of clumped-up, print -- wet printed paper, meaning it was not toilet paper. This was either notes or some other piece of paper that he -- they believe that he had thrown down the toilet.

It certainly does add, as you said, another dimension to what we know about how he handled material in the White House.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: And, Ryan, we now know the National Archives has asked the DOJ to investigate. Where does that stand?

NOBLES: Well, at this point, the Department of Justice isn't commenting on whether or not they have launched an investigation to the care of these presidential records by the former president, Donald Trump.

But, certainly, if there was classified information in there, it raises questions about whether or not this was a criminal violation. And the former president is pushing back on this idea that he wasn't taking careful custody of these records.

He put out a lengthy statement, saying that his work with the National Archives has been fruitful, that he's provided them all the information that they have been looking for. And he went on to say that this is -- quote -- "just another fake story. Categorically untrue," this specifically talking about Haberman's reporting about the documents in the toilet, "and simply made up by a reporter in order to get publicity for a mostly fictitious book."

Regardless, Ana, the National Archives takes very close care of this information. It's basically one of their only jobs. So, when they take the step of referring something to the Department of Justice to investigate, that is serious. Now, they often do it and the Department of Justice reviews the material and then decides not to prosecute or move forward.

But, in this case, we know that information is in the hands of the Department of Justice. We now have to wait and see if they act on it -- Ana.

CABRERA: Ryan Nobles, thank you for all that reporting.

Let's break it down with CNN senior legal analyst and former federal and state prosecutor Elie Honig and CNN presidential historian Tim Naftali.

Elie, let me start with you, because the other part of Trump's statement today on top of what we just heard Ryan report out is that he claims that he had no legal obligation to be turning over these documents, including some of what has since been recovered from Mar-a- Lago.

So I'm wondering, what kind of legal trouble could he be in?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Ana, first of all, it's incorrect to say that there was no legal obligation to preserve these documents.

Actually, where I would start the legal analysis here is with something called the Presidential Records Act. That basically says presidents have to maintain and keep all presidential records.

Now, the problem is, there's no consequence for that. It's a law with no teeth. There's no remedy for it. But depending on the intent and the specificity, there could be potentially criminal laws involved in two respects. First of all, if there was intentional, knowing destruction of classified documents, that's a federal crime.

And, second of all, if the intent was, let me get these documents taken out of the way because they could look bad, they could be damning for me in an investigation, in a lawsuit, then you're talking about potential obstruction of justice. So the devil will be in the details here.

CABRERA: So let's talk about how the DOJ might go about an investigation to prove a crime, to prove intent.

And I want to remind our viewers of how Trump hammered Hillary Clinton for her handling of e-mails. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Her judgment is horrible. Look at her judgment on e-mails. Who would do it? She showed great negligence. And the real word is negligence in what happened.

She put us all at risk. If I got a subpoena -- think of this. If I got a subpoena for e-mails, if I deleted one e-mail, like a love note to Melania, it's the electric chair for Trump.

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: Hillary was a criminal. She deleted her e-mails. People go to jail for that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[13:10:03]

CABRERA: Elie, of course, the hypocrisy here is striking. But could those words be used against him in a court of law?

HONIG: So the key issue here, Ana, as you said, is intent.

Here's how I would look at it. First of all, clearly, Donald Trump has a quite sophisticated understanding of these laws. We just heard him lay out not just what the laws are, but the reasons for them in a compelling fashion. So he understands these laws. He can't claim ignorance.

Second of all, is there a pattern here? I mean, all of these stories we're talking about, the missing calls on the log, the flushing of documents down the toilet, the mishandling of documents down at Mar-a- Lago, they all are similar, and they all show a disregard for these document retention laws.

And then the most important thing really is, can we know what the documents are? Because, if you can see is he trying to pick out certain documents that may be damaging or damning, that's very different than did he just have this general habit of ripping up documents?

The complication with the toilet and the plumbing aspect of this is, we will probably never be able to know what those documents were.

CABRERA: But if he's not just flushing every document down the toilet, that also shows some inconsistency in how he is treating documents.

HONIG: Yes.

CABRERA: Tim, let me ask you, when you look at the totality here, flushing documents down the toilet, removing boxes of potential White House records, ripping up pieces of paper documents, records, potentially, as a presidential historian, have you seen anything like this?

TIM NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: No, we haven't.

We have seen evidence, we have seen cases of presidential aides doing it in both the Nixon and Reagan White Houses. There was shredding of documents, documents that were about a conspiracy, in one case, a criminal one, actually, in both cases, a criminal conspiracy. So we have seen it.

What's unusual in this case is that the president himself participated in the destruction of records. I will say that there is still an open question about the famous 18-and-a-half-minute gap in the Nixon era and whether the president himself participated. But he was such a technophobe, I'm quite sure he didn't.

But in any case, it's Trump's own -- it's the fact that he did it himself that makes it so unusual.

CABRERA: And I guess we don't know what the DOJ will do.

Tim, if the DOJ doesn't pursue this, then what kind of new precedent does it set?

NAFTALI: Well, this is the problem. This was the problem during our -- the impeachment process, where the -- President Trump refused to respect over 200 years of precedent in deciding to stonewall all requests from Congress.

Unfortunately, if there are no sanctions for bad behavior like this, it opens the door to future presidents believing that they can willy- nilly engage in the destruction of federal records. This is something I believe Congress should look at. Why does it matter?

It's not just so that people like me can write books. It's accountability. If presidents and their lieutenants know that someday we will learn about what they did, then it puts, I think, a restraint on them. If, on the other hand, they believe they can destroy documents and get away with bad behavior, the door is open to a lot more presidential abuse of power.

CABRERA: Elie, quick final thought. Do you think the DOJ will follow up, will prosecute?

HONIG: Well, it certainly puts DOJ on the spot, because,, when DOJ is asked about what it's doing in relation to Donald Trump or January 6, they just default to prosecutorial boilerplate, facts and law, we will follow wherever it goes.

Now they can be asked in a very specific way, you got this referral from the Archives. Have you received it? Are you doing anything about it? They may or may not answer, but it's harder for them to sort of wriggle out with cliches.

CABRERA: Elie Honig and Tim Naftali, appreciate both of you. Thanks so much...

HONIG: Thanks, Ana.

CABRERA: ... for your perspective and expertise.

It's still getting worse, inflation rising again, costing the average U.S. household hundreds more a month. For what exactly? And is there any hope for relief?

Plus, they're blocking border crossings, disrupting neighborhoods, and now they're targeting the Super Bowl. The new Homeland Security warning over the growing trucker protests.

And no drugs, no alcohol, but a bump on the head before going to bed proved fatal for Bob Saget. A neurosurgeon is going to join us to discuss.

Stay right there.

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[13:18:32]

CABRERA: A new report today confirms what we all feel. Our money is not going as far.

Annual inflation in the U.S. has soared to 7.5 percent. That is the highest level in 40 years. It's something we have been tracking closely for you.

So let's bring you the very latest here.

CNN's Matt Egan joins us.

Matt, we talk about inflation a lot. So, what do we need to know about today's numbers?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Ana, today's numbers show that the cost of living continues to go up at an alarming pace, consumer prices up by 7.5 percent in January from the year before.

And if you zoom in, month over month, inflation unexpectedly got worse, with prices up by 0.6 percent. Now, we have a chart that kind of puts some of this into context. And it shows that, one, after many years of very low inflation, consumer price gains are going almost straight up.

You can see on the chart on the right. And, also, we haven't seen gains like this, we haven't seen inflation like this in a very long time, since 1982. How long ago was that? I mean, to put some context around it, 1982, that was the year that "Knight Rider" first debuted. And, fittingly, it was also the year that the Cincinnati Bengals made their debut, making their first Super Bowl appearance.

Now, let me give you some concrete examples of what this actually means. Gas prices, we talk about it a lot, up 40 percent. That means that gasoline was $2.50 a gallon last year. Now it's something like $3.50 a gallon.

[13:20:01]

Used cars up 40 percent. That means, if a car was fetching $23,000, it's now $32,000. Food at home also up, electricity as well.

Now, we know there are bright spots in this economy. GDP is up, unemployment is down. But, Ana, the high cost of living continues to be a sore spot for families.

CABRERA: And so we know wages are also going up, but clearly not keeping up with these inflation rates. How does it hit home to the average American household?

EGAN: Well, high inflation means that people are spending more money on just about everything.

Moody's Analytics put out a report showing that the average family is spending $250 more a month because of high inflation. That adds up. Also, you mentioned wages. So, thankfully, wages are going up. Wages are hot, as you can see, compensation up 4 percent in December from a year before.

But inflation is hotter, because, once you adjust for inflation, price -- compensation was actually down by nearly 2 percent. I think that all of this sums up why people are not feeling very good about today's economy.

Ana, hopefully we start to see inflation plateau in the coming months, but it's going to take some time. And then the key will be, where does it end up? How long does it take for inflation get back to healthy levels?

CABRERA: All right, Matt Egan, as always, I really appreciate it. Thanks.

To another economic threat now. Truckers in Canada who are protesting COVID vaccine mandates, they're not backing down. Today, a third crossing from Canada into the U.S. is blocked. And the U.S. Department of Homeland Security is warning that similar protests could threaten big U.S. events, like this weekend's Super Bowl.

CNN's Miguel Marquez is live with protesters in Windsor, Ontario, and CNN's Camila Bernal is outside SoFi Stadium in L.A.

Miguel, you are at the largest of these three crossings right now that are blocked. You have been speaking with truckers. What are you hearing?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

And I want to make very clear, this is not just truckers. This is now broadening out to many more Canadians. Even the Canadian Trucking Alliance says that what is happening behind me here, this is not a peaceful protest, they say. Labor unions are also upset about this because we are now headed into day four of this major transit corridor being shut down.

And it is starting to affect the economy on both sides of this border. The truckers that -- the protesters that you see here are sort of rallying. We have seen this sort of every night now where they spend overnight, just a few people in their cars, and then, as the day wears on, you have many, many more people come out here.

They say it's not just about vaccines. They are very upset about vaccines, but they say it's about all mandates. They say the prime minister here, Justin Trudeau, has got to engage with them specifically. And many of them say, look, they have had a very hard time over the last two years. And they are willing to do whatever it takes to see this through to the finish.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM DOIG, PROTESTER: I have two kids and four grandsons. And I don't think anybody, including Trudeau, has the right to tell us and them that they have to take an injection of medical in their body, when he feels necessary, as often as he feels necessary, with something that's not proven yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUEZ: Now, of course, that's what we hear from a lot of people here. Of course, those vaccines are proven safe, effective, and have probably saved hundreds of thousands of lives, if not millions of lives, around the world.

The other thing that's happening here that is also concerning, the mayor of Windsor says that he requested additional resources from the federal government and from the province.

Those resources are starting to come in now. And if these protesters will not go peacefully, he says physical removal is on the table -- Ana.

CABRERA: Miguel, just a quick follow that sound bite we just heard, because you point out the facts. I'm sure you responded to him with those facts. Are they even open to the facts, Miguel?

MARQUEZ: That word,, is not going to get you very far in this crowd. These are people who have come to their own conclusions about what the

coronavirus is, about what is happening not only here in Canada, but around the world. And they interpret their world through that lens.

It is -- you're not going to get a discussion that is going to produce a lot with that in -- with many of the people here.

I will say though, many of these people have had such a hard time over the last few years economically. It has left them ostracized by -- from the economy, from the society, in some cases from their family. So there is a lot of pain on both sides of this thing. And these people, I think, are just fed up with it. And this is the way they're exercising it right now -- Ana.

[13:25:00]

CABRERA: Miguel, stand by as I bring in Camila, because the concerns now from U.S. officials are that protests will begin here.

What exactly are they warning? And how credible are reports that they're hearing?

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Ana.

Well, credible enough where authorities are paying attention, DHS putting out a bulletin that essentially says that, even though they don't believe that this would cause any violence, there are other things that could be impacted, a gridlock, for example, or even just counterprotests.

So just think about L.A. traffic. It's already bad. You add in all the visitors for the Super Bowl, and then you add in a possible convoy of truckers in L.A. And that's where you get that gridlock that could potentially impact transportation, emergency operations, federal government operations.

It could be a huge headache for authorities. And then the counterprotests, of course, just people who are very passionate and are on both sides of this issue. So that could escalate as well.

It's being organized mostly via online forums. So we will have to wait and see if this actually happens over the weekend, but LAPD, Inglewood police, the sheriff's department and federal authorities saying that they have got things under control, that things should run smoothly here at the Super Bowl, because, of course, we're expecting more than 80,000 people here at the stadium behind me.

And then the problem is that, even when the Super Bowl is over, DHS also saying that this could transfer over to Washington, D.C., and it could also impact the State of the Union address on March 1 -- Ana.

CABRERA: And we are told from the White House this is something they're watching closely.

Camila Bernal, Miguel Marquez, thank you both for your reporting. A critical choice that will impact the Supreme Court and the country

for years to come. President Biden is fast approaching a self-imposed deadline to pick Justice Breyer's replacement. Hours from now, he meets with Senate Judiciary Democrats to talk about potential nominees.

One of those senators joins us next.

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