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Interview With Gov. Daniel McKee (D-RI); Russian Military Drills; Interview With Sen. Chris Coons (D-DE); Trucker Protests Coming to U.S.?; Did Trump Flush Presidential Records?. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired February 10, 2022 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:25]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone, I'm Alisyn Camerota. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM. Victor has the day off.

If you have gone to the grocery store or gas station lately, you have had a feeling that inflation is not going away, and, today, confirmation. Inflation drove prices 7.5 percent higher over the past year, the steepest annual price increase since 1982, gas and used cars 40 percent higher now than a year ago, groceries 7.4 percent higher, and electricity nearly 11 percent higher.

President Biden acknowledges the stress that inflation is causing on American families.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm going to work like the devil to bring gas prices down, which I'm going to -- working make sure that we keep strengthening the supply chains to bring the cost of energy and everything else, the goods that come to America, down by helping the ports 24/7, by changing a whole range of things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Well, apparently, Americans are not happy. A new CNN poll just released shows nearly six in 10 Americans disapprove of how President Biden is handling the presidency. That's eight points lower than in December.

So, joining me now is Democratic Senator Chris Coons from Delaware. He's a close friend and adviser to President Biden.

Great to see you, Senator.

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): Great to be with you again, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: So, Senator, what do you think are behind these numbers? And what advice are you giving to the president to turn them around?

COONS: I think the advice I'm giving to the president is the action that we're taking here in the Senate.

Earlier today, we passed a bipartisan bill that has to do with protecting those who are victims of sexual assault. On Monday, we're going to pass a big bipartisan bill repairing and fixing the Postal Service of the United States. We are moving ahead on appropriations bills, on a Russia sanctions bill, on the Violence Against Women Act.

There's a whole series of bipartisan bills we are taking up and passing this month and next in the Senate. When I see him later today, my advice to the president will be, keep on the direction you're headed. Bring down the prices that impact the everyday life of working families through passing things like prescription drug -- prescription drug price reform, something he's been working hard at since he got elected, and continuing to get us out of this pandemic.

Alisyn, I think part of the numbers you just cited reflect supply chain problems and general weariness that are both caused by how long this pandemic has gone on.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

COONS: And the pandemic numbers are actually moving quickly in the right direction.

CAMEROTA: I mean, Senator, I appreciate all that you're saying that the Senate is doing, but I'm not sure that passing bills on sexual assault and on the Postal Service are at the top of the mind for Americans.

And I just say this because, in terms of the polling, how Biden is handling the economy seems to be top of mind right now, and that, the numbers are really not good; 62 percent disapprove.

And so, look, in December, he said that he felt that inflation had peaked. I know these things are hard to predict. But it seems as though Americans want more from him on this topic.

COONS: Alisyn, the economic number that matters the most is that unemployment is at 4 percent. It has come down faster, more broadly than anyone anticipated.

In President Biden's first year, more than six million jobs created by the private sector, that's an important economic number. So I will accept your premise that the Senate getting stuff done doesn't really matter, that what matters is how your average American feels about their place in the world, their family's budget and the path forward.

But I do think that the legislation we have sent to his desk, like the infrastructure package that we passed last year and like the appropriations bill I believe we will pass the next few weeks, ultimately have a positive impact on creating jobs, on getting us out of this pandemic, and on fixing supply chain problems that have led to this high inflation rate.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

Do you think he should turn his attention away from Build Back Better now?

COONS: Well, there is no path forward for Build Back Better.

There is an opportunity for us to continue negotiating on a significantly smaller package. And I do think that the pieces of that are worth continuing to fight for, which would be incentives for the clean energy economy, support for reducing prescription drug prices, and raising revenue to help tackle our deficit and debt, those are things that Senator Manchin, who has been the one key hold out for months now, has said he might embrace.

[14:05:07]

I, frankly, think we need to focus on some of the international security challenges facing our allies and the world in Europe and in Asia, and some of our domestic challenges, which will principally be solved if we get out of this pandemic.

The president's been terrific at those two issues. In the meantime, letting us negotiate with our colleagues and see which of the elements of the package we spent so much time on last year we can actually move forward is what matters.

CAMEROTA: And, Senator, you're also going to the White House today to talk about the president's potential Supreme Court nominee. And so who do you think he should pick? And has the list been whittled down to three or four people now?

COONS: Alisyn, I'm going to leave that, of course, to the president.

I am confident President Biden will choose someone highly qualified. As you know, we confirmed 40 federal judicial nominees from this president last year. That's a record in my lifetime. It's been decades since any president has confirmed that many federal judges. I think, actually, it goes back to President Reagan.

And we just confirmed another handful this week, I think, two circuit and four district, if I'm correct. On the Judiciary Committee earlier today, we passed out another group. So President Biden has demonstrated that he is nominating skilled, qualified, seasoned nominees to the federal bench.

There are some very capable and very well-qualified nominees available to him. I look forward to the consultation conversation today, in which the main point I will be making is, we should move with all deliberate speed. I know the president wants to interview and consider the candidates before him.

He should make this decision quickly and well. And then we in the Judiciary Committee will do our job of advice and consent.

CAMEROTA: So, will this be done before the end of February?

COONS: Will it be done?

No, we will not have a new justice.

CAMEROTA: Well, no, his choice.

COONS: But will the president make a nomination? I expect he will. And then we will take some time to dig into their record, to read their decisions, and to consider their nomination.

But it is my hope that, by Easter, we will see a newly seated Supreme Court -- excuse me -- that, once Justice Breyer retires from the court, there will be a seasoned nominee ready to serve.

CAMEROTA: OK, because, I mean, Easter is a little soon for that.

COONS: That's right. Forgive me. I got my time schedule off a little bit.

Justice Breyer is, of course, still participating in this term of the court. I think, as I said earlier, our goal here is to make sure that the president takes the time to consider the very strong candidates he's got in front of him, that we on the committee have the time to consider the record, and that we move forward.

I will remind you, now-Justice Amy Coney Barrett moved forward at lightning speed, at breakneck speed. I think we should move with deliberate speed, but make sure that we are getting this historic nomination moving forward reasonably soon.

CAMEROTA: Totally understand, and we are all looking forward to spring. I get it.

Senator Chris Coons, thanks so much. Always great to see you.

COONS: Thank you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, there are new developments in the January 6 investigation.

There seem to be some gaps in some of the White House logs from that day. Sources tell CNN that internal call records obtained by the congressional committee show zero incoming or outgoing phone calls to former President Trump as the attack unfolded.

CNN congressional correspondent Ryan Nobles is one of the reporters breaking the story.

But we know there were phone calls. So where are the logs?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's a great question, Alisyn. And, to be clear, the committee does believe that the president talked

to some people on the phone during that period of time, but the information that they have in front of them, which was part of a request of documents from the Trump administration that the former president fought to keep secret in court, and, ultimately, the Supreme Court sided with the January 6, select committee, shows that, in these official White House records -- this is the information that would have this type of data available -- shows that there were no calls during that very significant period of time.

Basically, from when the president returned back to the Oval Office after giving a speech on the Ellipse and until he gave that video address around the events on January 6.

Now, that doesn't mean that the records that they have received have no phone call records on them. In fact, they do. In fact, there are examples of calls earlier in the day. We reported last week on the 10- minute phone call with Representative Jim Jordan.

And then there's also a record of the president attempting to get the former Vice President Mike Pence on the phone, and Pence not being available. Yet there's no record of a return call from the vice president. But the committee still knows that that conversation happened. And that's because of an interview that they conducted with Keith Kellogg, the vice president's national security adviser.

He was in the Oval Office on the other end of that phone call while the president and vice president spoke.

So, the big problem here, Alisyn, is that lack of information, the gap between what the committee knows and what these official records tell them. The committee insists they will find ways to get this information. But there's clearly a lack of information in the official record from what they expected when they received this information -- Alisyn.

[14:10:15]

CAMEROTA: Really revealing.

Ryan Nobles, thank you very much.

Joining me now to talk about all this, we have Ron Brownstein, CNN senior political analyst and senior editor of "The Atlantic," and Norm Eisen, CNN legal analyst and former White House ethics czar.

Norm, I said, really revealing in its lack of revelation, frankly.

I mean, Norm, what does it tell you that there are no logs from that day? Is that sloppiness or something else?

NORM EISEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Alisyn, so great to be back with you.

And, to me, it brings to mind Rose Mary Woods' infamous 18.5-minute gap on the Watergate tapes. Sometimes, the absence is more telling than the presence. There must be something amiss here. Whether it's intentional or negligent, we don't know yet.

But when I was the White House ethics czar, one of the laws I was responsible for administering was the record retention, the Presidential Records Act. We know that something was going on in this gap. And I think it's very suspicious.

What the end is, we will need to see.

CAMEROTA: Ron, when Donald Trump was running for president, he was so appalled by what might be on Hillary Clinton's e-mails. And this is what he said in September of 2016.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: People who have nothing to hide don't smash phones with hammers. They don't. People who have nothing to hide don't bleach. Nobody's ever heard of it. Don't bleach their e-mails or destroy evidence to keep it from being publicly archived, as required under federal law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: And, Ron, people who have nothing to hide don't flush important documents down the toilet. I also think that's a truism.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: And Maggie Haberman, in her new book, is reporting that, in fact, that happened.

I will read you a portion: "I learned that staff in the White House residents would periodically find the toilet clogged. The engineer would have to come and fix it. And what the engineer would find would be wads of clumped-up wet printed paper, meaning it was not toilet paper. This was either notes or some other piece of paper that they believe he had thrown down the toilet."

Your thoughts?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

Yes, look, we're really seeing the gauntlet dropped here, because I mean, the question is going to be whether Donald Trump can get away with flouting and barreling through so many of the laws and customs and norms that we thought limited the exercise of arbitrary presidential power, everything from firing inspectors general, to extorting the government of Ukraine, to politicizing the census, to, it appears, orchestrating a far-reaching effort to undermine the election, to violating the Presidential Records Act.

So, on all of these fronts, Trump simply barreled through what we thought in the past were barriers on misbehavior by presidents. And he did so on all of those fronts, with silence from the Republicans in Congress who were outraged about Hillary Clinton's e-mail in 2016. It wasn't just Donald Trump raising that alarm. There were an awful lot of Republicans on Capitol Hill. So I think,

really, the question that is facing the Justice Department and other law enforcement entities like the Georgia grand jury that is looking at this is, if you don't put any sanction Trump for all of these behaviors, you are essentially guaranteeing that you are going to get more of it from a future president, whether him or somebody else.

And you would think, to an institutionalist like Merrick Garland, that would be a prospect that would kind of concentrate the mind.

CAMEROTA: Norm, isn't this an obvious one? Isn't this sort of an open-and-shut case, so to speak? This is a violation of the Presidential Records Act.

I mean, first of all, he absconded with 15 boxes of important historical documents from the White House, letters from foreign leaders, etcetera, and flushing things down the toilet. How is this even a question for Merrick Garland, Norm?

EISEN: And tearing them up, right? We're going to see documents.

We know that some were retrieved. Some have not been retrieved. And I'm sure we will see them at the hearings, Alisyn, with tape on them, the torn documents.

The -- but the -- as so often with Donald Trump's violation of the rules, because it's so unusual, there's no precedent for it. So we don't have examples of presidents, really of very many people, being prosecuted for violating the Presidential Records Act and the associated laws, which do include criminal penalties.

[14:15:00]

But, Alisyn, I will tell you where I think Donald Trump may have the most exposure in this document flushing, hiding, destroying and removing scheme, including those 15 boxes.

It's under another set of law, obstruction of justice. We know Bob Mueller laid out very serious charges that Trump had attempted to obstruct justice. And I think, here, if we can show that he was destroying, hiding, concealing documents, including those missing phone calls that we can't find in the White House records so far, in order to cover up wrongdoing, that's something that is prosecuted all the time.

It's a pattern with the president, not just the Mueller investigation, Ukraine. I worked on the impeachment. We had an obstruction charge. And so that's where the greatest exposure is. I think Merrick Garland is going to look at this after the committee sends criminal referrals, if any, to the Department of Justice.

CAMEROTA: OK, we shall see.

Ron Brownstein, Norm Eisen, thank you both so much.

EISEN: Thanks, Alisyn. CAMEROTA: All right, there are new concerns that protests happening

at the Canadian border could expand to the U.S.

Those demonstrations are impacting the economy in both countries. And they could impact events like the Super Bowl and the State of the Union.

And President Biden is set to speak with European and NATO allies as Russia kicks off large-scale military drills. We have all the details next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:21:02]

CAMEROTA: The trucker protests at the Canadian border are causing a huge ripple effect to regular citizens.

These protests are ostensibly about vaccines, but they're shutting down all aspects of life affected by this major international crossing known as the Ambassador Bridge. This bridge carries 25 percent of all trade between the U.S. and Canada. Its shutdown is causing auto plants in both countries to halt production. And that impacts the food industry and so much more.

Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer echoed these concerns in a statement, saying -- quote -- "Our communities and automotive, manufacturing and agricultural businesses are feeling the effects. It's hitting paychecks and production lines. That is unacceptable" -- end quote.

The Department of Homeland Security is warning that similar protests could spread to the U.S. Even the Super Bowl could be potentially affected.

CNN's Miguel Marquez is in Canada for us.

So, Miguel, just set the scene of what you're seeing there.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we are seeing people that do not want to leave until they get what they want. This is the situation here just at the foot of the Ambassador Bridge in Windsor, Canada.

On the right side, that should be traffic flowing into the U.S. On the left side here, this should be traffic flowing into Canada from the But S.. And it is completely shut down.

In the last 36 hours or so, there was one lane of trucks able to get out of Canada into the U.S. across the bridge that has now been shut down again by protesters today.

As this protest goes on, typically what happens is, you see all these people sort of coming in. More and more people show up during the day and into the evening. They want all restrictions nationwide dropped, lifted, go -- to go away before they say they will leave this area. One does get a sense that there is increasing lack of patience on the

part of officials in Windsor, the mayor here saying that he requested more resources from the federal government and the provincial government, and those resources are now already arriving here in town, and that, if protesters won't leave peacefully, clearing them out is certainly on the table -- back to you guys.

CAMEROTA: And, Miguel, very quickly, are they aware, have you talked to anybody who's aware that they are affecting food and medicine and other important supplies getting to people?

MARQUEZ: They're aware that not only is food, supplies, that labor unions have called these protests unacceptable, that the trucking association here has called the protest is unacceptable.

Most truckers are vaccinated. Most truckers are not part of this protest here, at this bridge anyway. It is just a regular Canadians from all parts of life. They -- it has brought people out from many, many sections now. They feel emboldened and they do not want to leave until their concerns are addressed.

CAMEROTA: OK, Miguel Marquez, really helpful to have you there. Thank you.

All right, the West is accusing Moscow of escalating the crisis in Ukraine, after Russia launched a series of military exercises in Belarus just a short time ago.

Now the U.S. is increasing its naval presence in the region, as President Biden prepares to talk strategy with European and NATO leaders tomorrow.

CNN's Kylie Atwood is at the State Department for us.

So, Kylie, what does the president hope to accomplish during this round of calls?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen, this round of calls tomorrow is at a critical moment, when all of these leaders are trying to find a diplomatic solution to this ongoing crisis, and as they are all trying to put their best foot forward and demonstrate some unity in opposition to Russia's aggression.

Now, also, significantly, today, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley spoke on the phone with his counterpart in Belarus. And the Pentagon said that that was an effort to make sure that there were decreased chances for miscalculation and to gain a perspective on European security.

But, significantly, Alisyn, a chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff has never talked on the phone to his Belarusian counterpart. So it is noteworthy that the Biden administration made that effort.

[14:25:06]

And this, of course, comes as Belarus and Russia are starting today these 10 days of military exercises. And U.S. officials, Biden administration officials have said that this is escalatory behavior. This is not what they have been looking for from Russia and from Belarus. We heard that this morning from the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations.

But she also said that the United States is not going to stop pursuing diplomacy here, even though there is this escalatory behavior. The Biden administration is still putting its head down and trying to figure out the diplomatic path out.

And when it comes to what U.S. officials are looking for in terms of what would demonstrate that Russia is actually going to go forward and invade Ukraine, there are a number of things. It could be a cyberattack on Ukraine's energy grid. It could be them moving tanks, Russia moving tanks into firing distance from Ukraine.

But, of course, because they have so many troops there, it could also happen without an explicit signal that would sign that they are actually going forth, so all aspects of this still in play, Biden administration officials watching every part of it -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Kylie Atwood, thank you for the update.

Well, the CDC says the U.S. is not ready to drop COVID restrictions, but several Democratic governors are going ahead and doing so and lifting mask mandates.

So, we will speak to one of them next about why.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: More states are lifting indoor mask mandates for businesses and schools, even though the CDC thinks the U.S. is not ready for that.

Rhode Island is one of nearly a dozen states easing restrictions. Tomorrow, all indoor mask mandates there will be lifted. Mask requirements in the public schools there will end on March 4.

We're joined now by Governor of Rhode Island Dan McKee.

Governor, thanks so much for being here. Why are you doing this?

GOV. DANIEL MCKEE (D-RI): Well, thank you, Alisyn.

And, well, we're looking at the data here in Rhode Island. And we're down, I think, 94 percent since January on infection rates. I think our -- we're down on the positivity rate down to about 3.8 percent today.

So, we think that we're the state -- we're the second most vaccinated state in the country. Right now, we're the third most boosted in the state -- in the country, although we still have a lot of work to do there.