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Biden Holds Critical Call With Putin As Tensions Build Over Ukraine; White House Tells Americans To Leave Ukraine Immediately; Police Attempt To Clear Protesters From Bridge Linking U.S. And Canada; How Classified Documents Ended Up At Mar-a-Lago; Trump Supporter Now Calls "Stop The Steal" Movement A Cult; CNN Poll: Majority Of Americans Are Not Confident Elections Will Reflect Will Of The People. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired February 12, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

CARI CHAMPION, CNN+ HOST: And I think it's special with Kendrick Lamar really being that new generation, that next passing the torch, if you will. Dr. Dre was the genesis of it all when it came to West Coast rap because of the producer he was. And I'm just excited about it.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Yes. Hopefully it'd bring me back to my college days.

CHAMPION: Yes. We're dancing. We're dancing.

SCHOLES: All right. Thanks, Cari. On behalf of all of us here in Los Angeles, enjoy the game. The news continues right now Jim Acosta.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington, and we begin with breaking news on the last-ditch efforts to avoid a Russian invasion of Ukraine that U.S. officials say could begin at any time.

You're looking at President Biden on what could be one of the most consequential phone calls of his presidency, a 62-minute phone conversation with Russian President Vladimir Putin warning against sparking a war that could produce widespread human suffering in Europe. But despite the call a senior administration official tells CNN Russia may attack anyway. There are other worrying signs that the U.S. believes diplomatic efforts could be in vain.

The U.S. Secretary of Defense has taken some U.S. forces out of Ukraine moving them elsewhere in Europe. The State Department has ordered all non-emergency staff to leave the U.S. embassy in Kyiv and they are making personal phone calls to other Americans in the country warning it is past time to get out and no one is coming to rescue you if Ukraine becomes a combat zone.

Right now Russia has Ukraine surrounded on three sides. Look at that map right there. On three sides. The White House says an invasion would likely begin with aerial bombings, missile attacks and a rapid assault on Kyiv, potentially during the Olympics.

CNN is covering every angle of this crisis as only CNN can. Kylie Atwood is at the State Department, Nic Robertson is in Moscow, but let's begin with the White House and Arlette Saenz, and how things are going there.

Arlette, what do we know -- what more do we know, I guess we should say, about this phone call between the president and Vladimir Putin? This is a very important conversation that just took place.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is an incredibly high stakes conversation between President Biden and Russian President Vladimir Putin and senior administration official says that there was no fundamental change to the dynamic that's been unfolding over the course of the past few weeks as the likelihood of Russia invading Ukraine appears to be increasing.

Now this official describes the conversation as professional and substantive but said that Russia may move forward with a military attack anyways. The phone call between Biden and Putin lasted just over an hour. The president holding that call, that secure call from his presidential retreat at Camp David.

And I want to read a portion of the White House statement regarding that call. They said that the president warned that there would be severe costs imposed on Russia if it moves forward with an invasion, and the statement also says President Biden reiterated that a further Russian invasion of Ukraine would produce widespread human suffering and diminish Russia's standing. They added, "President Biden was clear with President Putin that while the United States remains prepared to engage in diplomacy in full coordination with our allies and partners, we are equally prepared for other scenarios."

Now the U.S. and allies have been working on a package of sanctions that would be imposed against Russia if it moves forward with an invasion. They have also committed to providing Ukraine with some defense capabilities to try to protect themselves. We have seen the U.S. planning and deploying thousands of troops to neighboring Poland over the course of this past week.

Those efforts to put military positioning in Eastern European NATO allied countries is really an effort to bolster those NATO allies, though the U.S. has made clear that they will not be sending American troops into Ukraine. Of course, the U.S. also trying to protect some American interests in the country, evacuating most of the non- emergency personnel at their U.S. embassy there in Kyiv. Additionally, they've warned that Americans need to leave the country immediately this weekend as the security situation could continue to devolve in the coming days.

So really the question is what are these next steps? President Biden has said or the White House says that in that call President Biden said that he will -- he and his team will remain in contact with Russia over the course of these past few days. Of course the White House hoping that diplomacy could help lead to de-escalation but it's unclear whether that might be possible if Putin does decide to move forward with an invasion which the White House says they do not have full visibility on in his current thinking and whether he'll make the decision to do that.

ACOSTA: All right. Arlette, thanks very much for that.

And Nic, what are you hearing from the Kremlin at this point? I suppose more denials, more of the same?

[15:05:01]

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Jim, yes, I think that kind of sums it up, doesn't it? The diplomatic dial has not shifted here. President Putin's spokesman or one of his deputy officials in his office said that the conversation came from a position of hysteria of these accusations that Russia is about to invade Ukraine.

And I think the central theme from President Biden's call with President Putin from the Russian perspective was to reiterate again that they have not had their core issues addressed which is to deny Ukraine access to NATO and for NATO to go back to the 1997 position. So, you know, and we heard that across several phone calls today. President Macron heard a version of that one. He spoke to President Putin.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken heard a version of that when he spoke with Sergey Lavrov here, the foreign minister. I think the two other threads that came out of today was one Russia -- and this was in the sort of Antony Blinken-Lavrov call and the Putin-Macron call. Russia trying to put pressure on the United States, on France, on Germany, on others to put pressure on Ukraine to more fully comply in their view with the Minsk Agreement, to get into those talks with the Russian-backed, pro-Russian separatists in the east of Ukraine which the Ukrainian officials for many substantial reasons of their own don't want to get into those conversations.

So there was that pressure coming one way from Russia on that. The other pressure, again this was from Antony Blinken to Sergey Lavrov, from Macron to Putin, was if you are really serious about having a diplomatic off-ramp and you want to get into that conversation, then deescalate. Now that's something we've been hearing a lot of from the U.S. side and from the European side over recent weeks.

But really now it does seem to be a test of Russia's intent. Are you really keeping this sort of diplomatic space going just so you can build up forces? I think it seems that they're trying to test out the Russian position, and just say, look, we think you might be about to invade, if you're not, deescalate and let's have this conversation. That's the path. Trying to get some kind of commitment there. So when I say the diplomatic dial hasn't moved it's because Russia is not giving visibility on that at all.

ACOSTA: Fascinating. All right, Nic, it is brinksmanship, no question about it at this stage.

Kylie, let me go to you. The U.S. gas already made clear Americans need to evacuate. They're telling embassy staff to get out as well. But it sounds like there are some Americans who are just simply refusing to leave.

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. That's right. A senior State Department official reiterated today that Americans should leave saying that it is past time for them to leave the country because they warned that these attacks that could be coming from Russia won't be discriminating against anyone.

These incoming aerial bombings that are possible that the United States believes Russia would begin its campaign with could really hit anyone and we have heard this multiple times from State Department officials, from Biden administration officials over the last few days. The State Department saying that they have been in touch in recent days with thousands of Americans who are still in Ukraine.

But as you said, Jim, they said that there are a substantial number of those Americans who don't want to leave the country. They are essentially urging them to change their mind and do so before there could be a war zone. The senior State Department official saying if there is a war zone that greatly diminishes the Biden administration, the U.S. government's capability to help out any Americans.

Also making it very clear that they have no plans for a military evacuation to help those Americans who are still in the country. And we should also note that the U.S. embassy has now drawn down most of its personnel. Most of the diplomats leaving the country. A small number are still staying at the embassy in Kyiv, the capital. A small number are also staying now in a city to the west of -- to western Ukraine.

Obviously that would be further away from the borders where Russia could in fact invade. But it's significant that the State Department made these actions, made this decision before this phone call between the two presidents. But even after that phone call still saying there is clearly a possibility that Russia moves forward with this invasion.

ACOSTA: All right. Kylie, Nic and Arlette, thanks to all of you.

And joining me now to talk about this, former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, William Taylor.

Ambassador Taylor, thanks so much for being with us. We appreciate your expertise. What do you make of some of these developments that you heard our reporters discuss there just a few moments ago. You know, President Biden gave Putin the same warning, we've been hearing from the administration in recent weeks. It doesn't sound like, from what Nic Robertson was saying, that Vladimir Putin, that the Kremlin is indicating anything that the Americans and the West is willing to go with, that NATO is willing to go with at this point, as sort of a diplomatic off-ramp.

[15:10:07]

Where do you see the potential for an off-ramp in all of this or has that do you think vanished? WILLIAM TAYLOR, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: It's not vanished,

Jim. There's an off-ramp if President Putin wants to take it. And I think you're right. It is a, it's high stakes poker game. President Zelensky and President Biden are staring down President Putin. President Putin is staring back. Neither has blinked at this point. And actually, Jim, it's impressive that President Zelensky, a young politician, there's not a lot of experience in government.

He's been two years as the president, he's really stood up to President Putin, this former KGB tough man who's been in office for 20 years. So President Zelensky and President Biden are staring him down. And you asked about the off-ramp, President Putin can blink and may well blink and he doesn't want to pay the price. It's a very high cost of invasion. The invasion will not only cost him economically.

You know, we know about all these sanctions, a lot of Russians will die and a lot of towns and villages in Russia will be burying Russian soldiers and this will not be popular in Russia and so President Putin has a lot to worry about and he could take that off-ramp if he wants to do it, if he blinks, if he backs down, and goes to the negotiation which can lead to some benefits for him.

ACOSTA: I mean, it sounds like geopolitical price is right that we're talking about right now. I mean, you know, I kind of wonder what the price is for Vladimir Putin, but you mentioned President Zelensky of Ukraine. He said, and this has been somewhat mysterious to me, Ambassador Taylor, I'll take your word for it that you say Zelensky has been standing up to Putin. But this repeated posture that we're hearing from the Ukrainians that they feel like the West is stirring things up too much, that this sense of panic is being stirred up too much.

Let's listen to what Zelensky said about how he feels this sense of panic is being stirred up and how it's helping Ukraine's enemies. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRES. VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY, UKRAINE: We have a lot of information because we are on these borders. It's our borders. It's our territory. You know, I have to speak with our people, like, you know, like president and say people truths and the truths that we have different information, and now the best friend for enemies that is panic in our country. And all this information that helps only for panic. It doesn't help us.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: What do you make of that, Ambassador Taylor? I wonder if, you know, he really should be preparing his country for war at this stage.

TAYLOR: Jim, he is preparing his country for war and Ukraine is preparing for war. President Zelensky is right about panic. And he does not want to sow panic. I was there last week, talked to President Zelensky, talked to a lot of Ukrainians, I talked to officials and civilians, and talked to people in and out of the government. So far, they've not panicked. So far President Zelensky has shown a resolute face, has been determined, has been calm, has kept Ukraine on an even keel.

They are preparing. He told me that he's ready and did decide to get 100,000 more troops under arms. He is working to increase the capabilities of the army. They are preparing. They're training civilians, they're training these territorial defense forces. You have been reporting on this. This is -- they are preparing, they're not panicking. They do need to have the support of the United States and NATO and they're getting it.

And they're getting it in terms of weapons. They're getting it in terms of commitments on sanctions. Your -- so Nic mentioned and Kylie mentioned that the attack, if it should come, I'm hopeful it won't come, I'm hopeful that Putin will decide it's too costly. If it does come, it will kill a lot of civilians, in particular this aerial bombardment that Jake Sullivan talks about. That will kill a lot of civilians.

Jim, that's a war crime. That's something that Putin, the individual, can be investigated by the International Criminal Court as a war crime. There's a lot going on --

ACOSTA: But he doesn't -- but Vladimir Putin --

TAYLOR: Keep in mind --

(CROSSTALK)

[15:15:02]

ACOSTA: Yes. But, Ambassador, Vladimir Putin doesn't care about being investigated by international war crimes courts and that sort of thing. He's a thug, a bully. And it seems to me, that's why I asked the question because, you know, I understand you don't want a country to panic but what we're hearing time and again from the Ukrainians is that they don't think this is going to happen.

And do you think that there's perhaps some strategic dialogue going there, that there's something strategic in the Ukrainians saying we don't think it's going to happen while they are making preparations and the possibility that it could happen?

TAYLOR: I don't think there's any dialogue going on that we don't know about. I mean, there are a lot of discussions and the one between President Putin and President Biden this morning is the senior one. President Zelensky, though, he understands and I think over the last couple of days you haven't heard that same kind of conversation that you heard a week or two ago from President Zelensky.

So I -- they are clearly preparing. The mood is tense. There's no doubt about it, and there are a lot of people, I will tell you, Jim, I was just there talking to a lot of Ukrainians, two former Defense ministers and foreigners as well, Europeans as well who are not convinced -- not convinced that there is going to be an attack by the Russians. The information is not clear. Even Jake Sullivan yesterday said there's no -- as far as we know, Putin has not yet decided.

He can still decide. He can still blink. He can still go for the negotiation. He hasn't decided. He's done everything and he's made it very clear. I mean, it's evident to us all of the moves he's making that makes it possible for him to go. But he hasn't decided and they need to stare him down.

ACOSTA: All right. Very good. Well, this has been going on for some time, I suppose the staring down between both sides will continue.

Former Ambassador William Taylor, thanks so much for those insights. Hope we can bring you back sometime. Really appreciate it.

TAYLOR: Thanks, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. And coming up, police take action against those trucker-inspired protests that have been wreaking havoc at the U.S.- Canada border. We'll go live to Ontario next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:21:34]

ACOSTA: Today Canadian police are trying to clear protesters who are blocking North America's busiest international crossing. The Ambassador Bridge connecting Michigan and Canada has been blocked for six days by demonstrators protesting COVID-19 measures.

CNN's Lucy Kafanov is on the scene in Windsor, Ontario.

Lucy, we know that police began trying to clear the bridge earlier this morning. How did that go? It looks like part of that scene behind you is still blocked. What's happening?

LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Trying is a relative word. We did see police show a greater police presence here. They sort of pushed back the line quite a bit. There's been a lot of liaising between officials and the protesters between last night and this morning where they're sort of trying to explain some of the harsher consequences that have now been put into effect for anyone who doesn't leave.

Those consequences including up to a year in prison, $100,000 fine, the potential loss of driving privileges. But of course a lot of the people here are not necessarily truckers themselves. There's religious communities here, minorities, there are families, a lot of families walking out and about. There's a sense of sort of jovial excitement, something to do.

But in terms of reopening that bridge, the closure of which has had devastating economic impacts both here and in the U.S. especially on the auto industry, that bridge, the Ambassador Bridge, you could see it behind me, it remains closed. Now there are a lot fewer trucks and a lot fewer cars, at least one vehicle was towed, some people left voluntarily. But that line, that protest line remains and the protesters are still here on the ground. It does not look like the police is going to be showing any kind of

heavy-handed use of force. There are concerns about acting in that way because they don't want to, you know, inspire protests in every Canadian city. So they're acting judiciously, sort of waiting it out. It remains to be seen what will erupt over the next few hours. But right now it's a fairly calm atmosphere. People have been sort of milling out.

There's a police checkpoint a few hundred yards maybe over that way and of course the one by the bridge, and people are sort of staying warm, walking back and forth. There's music, there's kids, there's dogs. It's a fairly calm atmosphere but again those economic devastating impacts from the closure of the bridge impacting industry on both sides of the border -- Jim.

ACOSTA: No question about that. All right. We'll be keeping an eye on it, we know you will as well.

Lucy Kafanov, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Coming up, do not touch those boxes. Brand new CNN reporting on how classified documents ended up with Donald Trump at Mar-a-Lago.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:28:42]

ACOSTA: And we're back with new CNN reporting on how classified documents got all the way from the White House to Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida after he left office. It took many months for the National Archives to get those documents back. And CNN has learned the situation got tense with the Archives even threatening to go to Congress and the Justice Department.

My colleague, Pamela Brown, reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAMALA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON POST (voice-over): White House aides began the process of collecting documents that needed to be turned over to the National Archives soon after Trump lost the November election. But while Trump was trying to figure out how to remain in power, the once standard process seems to have gone awry. Multiple sources tell CNN it was chaotic with no one ensuring protocols were followed at the end.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They rigged an election. They rigged it like they've never rigged an election before.

BROWN: It wasn't until May of last year that the Archives noticed several items were missing from their catalogue at Trump White House records. Significant items like letters he exchanged with North Korean dictator Kim Jong-un and the infamous sharpie-altered map of Hurricane Dorian.

Long-time National Archives lawyer Gary Stern first reached out to a former Trump White House counsel attorney hoping to locate the missing items and initiate their swift transfer, according to multiple sources familiar with the matter.

[15:30:00]

Sources say Stern, frustrated by the pace of the turnover, sought the intervention of another Trump attorney in October.

Also last fall, a top official in Trump's orbit was concerned that classified documents had been brought to Mar-a-Lago.

And warned people not to touch the boxes out of fear that sensitive material could be exposed to those without the proper clearance.

This situation becoming so tense that sources tell CNN the Archives warned Trump's team, it plans to notify Congress and the Justice Department if this wasn't resolved quickly.

Trump says something different, claiming the boxes taken to Mar-a-Lago "Contained letters, records, newspapers, magazines, and various articles," that are to be featured in his presidential library someday.

"The papers were given easily and without conflict and on a very friendly basis," he said.

The Archives has since asked Justice Department officials to investigate Trump's handling of White House records, including whether he violated the Presidential Records Act.

Separately, the House Oversight Committee is launching an investigation.

Critics crying hypocrisy, especially since Trump attacked Hillary Clinton over her handling of emails.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: People who have nothing to hide, don't smash phones with hammers. They don't.

People who have nothing to hide don't bleach -- nobody's ever heard of it. Don't bleach their emails or destroy evidence to keep it from being publicly archived as required under federal law.

BROWN: The Mar-a-Lago documents only the latest revelation about record keeping.

CNN has reported Trump repeatedly ripped up documents and --

MAGGIE HABERMAN, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Staff in the White House residents where the President lived, you know, were discovering that the toilets were clogged.

And when engineers went in to go see what was happening, there were, you know, clumped up wads of paper, you know, apparently, notes or documents. BROWN: Former White House National Security Adviser H.R. McMaster told CNN that, when he was in the White House, his staff had a foolproof system for their own record keeping.

H.R. MCMASTER, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: The staff is running it well. Everything that goes into the Oval Office should -- is logged in. Everything the President sees should be logged in.

I can't speak about what happened after I left.

BROWN: Pamela Brown, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: Our thanks to Pamela Brown.

Joining me now, senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, Elie Honig.

Elie, Trump is claiming - he claims lots of things -- he took the documents for the future library.

Pamela just reported a top Trump official told aides, "Don't touch those boxes. You might not have the right security clearance."

So it appears that they were aware down there that they had sensitive documents, that they had potentially classified documents.

What do you make of all this? What do you think is going on here?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Jim, it makes sense the people around Donald Trump understood these are classified documents. There's reporting they were stamped as classified. No better way to know than that.

The big question is, did Donald Trump know?

It is a federal crime to destroy or remove classified documents if the person acts intentionally, meaning not by some accident, and if the person knows they are classified.

Now, I think it's obvious Donald Trump had to have known, if they said "classified, confidential, secret, top secret," right on them.

And by the way, it's worth noting, "top secret" is the highest possible designation here. If these documents get turned over to the public, they pose a grave national security danger.

The only response I can think of is that, when he was president, not now, but back then, Donald Trump did have the power and authority to declassify. But there's got to be some evidence of that.

As a president, you don't just hover your hand over a document and say, "I hereby declassify you." There would be some record of that or some witness to that.

It looks like a potential violation of law here, something for the Justice Department to look into.

ACOSTA: And we heard the Maggie Haberman reporting that Trump allegedly flushed documents down the toilet.

His one-time press secretary, Stephanie Grisham, told me Trump would rip up papers all the time.

Let's listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANIE GRISHAM, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY & FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR UNDER PRESIDENT TRUMP: This is another example of a White House and administration, we had no rules. We followed no rules.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Was it clear to you why he was doing it? Was it a nervous tick or because he wanted them out of circulation and destroyed?

GRISHAM: I don't know the answer to that. To be honest with you, I always thought it was a nervous tick. It was something -- he always tore everything up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: We know, Elie, this does not rank at Trump's worst crime against humanity or the people of the United States.

But at some point, document destruction, taking top secret documents to Mar-a-Lago, flushing them down the toilet and so on, that has to amount to something approaching violations of the Presidential Records Act.

HONIG: Yes, Jim, and I think this is a perfect example what might fall on one side of the law and the other.

[15:35:02]

Even if documents are not classified, if you are destroying or removing documents because you want to keep them away from investigators, that's still a federal crime, even potentially obstruction of justice.

The ripping up. If Stephanie Grisham is correct -- I have no reason to doubt her -- it was just a habit or tick of Donald Trump, OK, maybe it's thoughtless, maybe it's strange, but it's probably not a crime.

But The toilet -- and I don't get to get overly analytical about a toilet.

But I think everyone understands there's only one possible reason you crumple something up in the toilet and flush it. You're trying to get rid of it and keep it away from other people.

To me, that part of the conduct is much closer and possibly over the line of what could be criminal that the --

(CROSSTALK)

ACOSTA: Elie, don't bad guys flush stuff down the toilet? They flush the evidence down the toilet. I mean --

HONIG: I mean, we laugh but I've seen that happen, Jim. It's quite a common thing.

When I was a prosecutor, you'd send out FBI agents or police to make arrests. One of the first things bad guys do is run to the toilet and start flushing.

I mean, it is true. It's pretty obvious why you would do that.

ACOSTA: And there's a specific January 6th angle to these concerns. CNN reported there's these hours-long gaps in the White House, call logs from January 6th.

That, to me, in addition to the documents -- you know, one of the things that people don't recognize I think enough is that it's not just Trump doing these things.

You have to have other staffers, other people helping him going around the law, that sort of thing.

And having gaps in phone logs to me would indicate more than one person being involved.

HONIG: Yes, the timing of that gap is so interesting. Because in the morning, on the morning of January 6th, Donald Trump is using the White House phone and his calls are being logged on that White House log as they normally should be.

And then, suddenly, right as the attack is happening, there's this gap. And reportedly, he would commonly -- Donald Trump used a cell phone, his own, sometimes grab aides' cell phones.

The committee has to reconstruct that and put those puzzle pieces back together. And what they need to do in order to do that is subpoena the phone records from the providers.

I've heard reporting there's hesitation. Well, they're reluctant to subpoena Donald Trump's cell phone record. My response is too bad. Do it.

ACOSTA: Right.

HONIG: Because he's supposed to be using the White House phone. That's why they have a White House log. So that's how they're going to fill that gap.

ACOSTA: Yes, I mean, please, enough with the reluctance. Let's get on with it. I think we have a mountain of evidence here in all sorts of different directions.

Elie Honig, thank you so much. We appreciate it.

HONIG: Thank you.

ACOSTA: Coming up, CNN's Elle Reeve goes one on one with a Trump supporter about what the Stop the Steal movement was really about.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELLE REEVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Stop the Steal was about those votes don't count. Somebody's votes don't count. Not your vote but someone else's.

KEITH SCOTT, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I'm not going to be painted into this narrative that you're trying to -- trying go down this rabbit hole.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:42:38]

ACOSTA: More proof of the damage caused by Trump's Big Lie. A CNN poll shows a majority of Americans, 56 percent, have little or more confidence that elections today will actually reflect the will of the people.

In the meantime, a Trump, supporter who was at the capitol on January 6th now admits the Stop the Steal movement was essentially a cult.

But he hasn't totally broken free from all aspects of Trump world, as our own Elle Reeve found out.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCOTT: At the time I lived in Georgia. I get there on Election Day and there were only a couple of cars in the parking lot.

The record turnout that they say that there was in Fulton County, Georgia, which is the county that I voted in, it didn't happen.

REEVE: Wasn't there a significant amount of early voting, though?

SCOTT: In that demographic, it's a poorer area, a predominantly black area.

You'll never be able to convince me that they were sitting around watching CNN and Fox News and all these things and that's what they were most concerned about was the election and getting that ballot and mailing it in.

If you asked people, is Joe Biden going to get more of the black vote than Barack Obama, people would say no. And Biden supposedly did. It doesn't make any sense.

REEVE: Right. But the bigger picture here --

(CROSSTALK)

REEVE: -- is actually what I'm really interested in, because it is a recurring theme, which is that you have skepticism about the black vote in this election.

Part of it, it seems to me, you know, you said you lived and voted in a black area, and how did those people have the time to pay attention to the election.

Why do you think you would be able to pay attention to that and black people wouldn't?

SCOTT: I don't think that everyone is interested in politics like I am. It's not necessarily about racial lines.

REEVE: I'm not like trying to say like you're a bad person or, like, you would use a racial slur.

What I'm just trying to get at is that you might not be sensitive to the big picture about what it looks like.

Disputing votes only in places where most of the voters are people of color, and that people of color might take some offense to that.

SCOTT: That's not what Stop the Steal was about and --

REEVE: Stop the Steal was about those votes don't count. Somebody's votes don't count. Not your vote but someone else's.

[15:45:03]

SCOTT: I'm not going to be painted into this narrative that you're trying to -- trying to go down this rabbit hole. I'm kind of done with the racial part of this.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: And with me now is former Atlanta Mayor, Keisha Lance Bottoms. She's also a CNN political commentator.

Mayor, fascinating discussion.

What were you thinking as you heard the man in the piece denying that the Stop the Steal movement was at least in part racially driven?

KEISHA LANCE BOTTOMS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thank you for having me.

You know, I think that people see and believe what they want to see and believe, especially as it comes to the integrity of the elections in Georgia.

When I look at where we are in this state and I look at the steps that were taken by the legislature to make it difficult for communities, especially for communities of color, to vote, to penalize counties like Fulton County and Dekalb County, where Atlanta is, it has some part to do with race.

You look at that county, one of the fastest growing counties in our state, one of the most diverse counties in our state, there's now an attempt to re-do how elections are held as it relates to designations as Republicans, as Democrats, et cetera.

So these efforts are targeted as counties in communities of color. And to have someone say that it's not, really it's disappointing. Call it what it is.

ACOSTA: Yes, I mean, and we would always hear Trump objecting to election results in urban areas. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what he's saying.

You know, Mayor, I want to show you this other CNN poll.

A higher percentage of Democrats believe an election would be overturned for partisan reasons rather than Republicans. It close, but 56 percent of Democrats saw it as likely compared with 48 percent of Republicans.

What do you make of that?

LANCE BOTTOMS: Well, you know, there's just a general distrust in our democracy right now.

What's really interesting, Jim, when I look at a poll that is done in January, conducted by the University of Georgia, published in "The Atlanta Journal Constitution," in Georgia, 38 percent of people believe there was widespread voter fraud and 56 percent believe it was not.

The bigger question is, as people distrust where we are with our democracy, will they still show up and vote? That's going to be a big question in Georgia in the '22 elections.

As you know, Senator Warnock will be back on the ballot, a highly contested governor's race will on the ballot.

The question will be, although people don't trust where we are and believe the elections may be overturned, will they still show up and vote in November?

ACOSTA: There are going to be a lot of motivated voters in the upcoming election. No question about it.

As you know, Mayor, the Fulton County district attorney, Fani Willis, spoke to CNN about her investigation into Trump and his allies' attempts to interfere in the Georgia 2020 election, the phone call with Brad Raffensperger, the secretary of state and so on.

Let's listen to what the district attorney said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you worried that former President Trump could somehow be able to avoid, delay, you know, what's going on with your investigation?

FANI WILLIS, FULTON COUNTY, GA, DISTRICT ATTORNEY: No.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why is that? What gives you that confidence?

WILLIS: This is a criminal investigation. We're not here playing a game. I plan to use the power of the law.

We are all citizens. Mr. Trump, just as every other American citizen, is entitled to dignity. He's entitled to be treated fairly. He will be treated fairly in this jurisdiction.

But I plan to do my job. And my job is to make sure we get the evidence that gives us the truth. I'm not concerned at all about games to delay this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Mayor, how critical is this investigation, do you think?

LANCE BOTTOMS: This is extremely important,

And what people must know about Fani Willis is she is a seasoned prosecutor. She's not just an administrator. She was one of the top prosecutors in this office before she ran for district attorney.

Ad so if she has asked that a special grand jury be impaneled, there's a reason for that. She knows how to build a case. She knows how to try a case.

And again, when you look at where we are in Georgia, what it means to the nation, what it means to the balance of power in the Senate, all eyes will be on the state.

And this investigation into Trump's attempt to influence the elections in Georgia will be extremely important.

[15:50:06]

And it's also important to note that Trump's influence on voters in Georgia is not what it once was. His numbers are dwindling in the state.

He and Brian Kemp, the current governor of Georgia, have not seen eye to eye. He and the secretary of state have not seen eye to eye. And they are both back on the ballot in this state.

So this investigation is going to be very important to voters in Georgia.

And it will also probably give us an indication, one it's all said and done, what influence Trump will continue to have on the elections within the state.

ACOSTA: All right. Former Atlanta Mayor Bottoms, thank you so much. Appreciate it. LANCE BOTTOMS: Thank you.

ACOSTA: And coming up, football's biggest game prepares to honor a legend from a different sport.

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[15:55:26]

ACOSTA: Tomorrow night, before the Rams and the Bengals take the field for Super Bowl LVI, a familiar face from a different sport will be in the spotlight.

Tennis legend, Billie Jean King, is one of the honorary coin toss captains for the big game.

King, a trail blazer for gender equality, and the other captains, will mark 50 years since the inception of Title IX, which provided equal funding for men and women at schools that get federal funding.

Kudos to Billie Jean King. Can't wait to see that.

Coming up, President Biden and Vladimir Putin hold a critical call on Ukraine. We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)