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John Bolton is Interviewed about Russia; Rachel Vindman is Interviewed about Suburban Moms Pushback on Issues; Rams Win the Super Bowl. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired February 14, 2022 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Perhaps crippling invasion of this country.

Do you believe, based on your interactions with him and Russia in the past, that he would build such a force purely to pressure Ukraine as opposed to taking military action?

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Yes, I think it's entirely possible. Let's begin with the dollars and cents of this. Putin's making money off this crisis. If you look at the price of oil recently, it continues above $90 a barrel. He's very happy with that given the state of Russia's economy.

I think what he's doing, it's certainly consistent with the possibility of invasion. That's undeniable. But I think back in the day we would have called what Putin is doing here brinksmanship. He's got to see what the weakness are in the NATO alliance. I think he's seen some already from the French. He may see more tomorrow from the German chancellor. And he's calculating Russian options across a broad range, not simply focusing on Ukraine. If this could be a shell game, he could be focused on something else. He could do pieces of Ukraine and not the whole thing. I think he's got the initiative, he's got the momentum and we're reacting in a purely defensive capability here.

SCIUTTO: The issue of Ukraine's potential possible membership in NATO is at the center of this because Russia has made it so. It's not on the table today, but it is in Ukraine's constitution, as you know, to keep that path open.

You did have a somewhat embarrassing moment, you might say, this morning when a senior Ukrainian diplomat brought up the idea of perhaps taking that off the table. The Ukrainian president has since said, no, Ukrainian membership in NATO is still something we want.

But, do you see a path there for settling this with some sort of assurances from both sides?

BOLTON: No, I don't.

Look, that diplomat in the U.K. is a former Ukrainian foreign minister and Ukraine's former observer ambassador to NATO. I think at best it was a slip of the tongue, maybe taken out of context. I certainly don't think it reflected anything like a shift in Ukrainian policy.

And, you know, this is -- this is just the beginning for Putin. It's not just NATO membership. People cannot forget what he said in 2005, the breakup of the Soviet Union is the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century. And what he is trying to do here is at least establish Russian hegemony over -- he's already got pieces of Ukraine and maybe as a unfortunately patient man he may just take a few more.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Ambassador Bolton, it's Bianna Golodryga in New York. I believe Jim is having some audio issues.

How much do you read into that very staged conversation that we saw publicly displayed on Russian national media and now globally between Vladimir Putin and Foreign Minister Lavrov at, once again, a very long table, where Putin asked Lavrov, obviously all of this pre-planned and staged, whether there was still opportunity for diplomatic paths to go on down the road, or does he think it's sort of a waste of time? And Lavrov then answered, yes, he does see opportunity for more diplomacy.

Do you view that as a way for Russia to sort of simmer tensions? Is that a way, as you were talking about, brinksmanship in full display?

BOLTON: Sure. I think -- I think he knows that German Chancellor Scholz, a new inexperienced chancellor, is coming to Moscow tomorrow. He's in Kyiv today. And I think they want to make sure that the pressure's on Scholz. Can he bring a peaceful resolution of it? I mean there's more than a little irony here of having Germany and Russia discussing possibly carving up another European country.

But I think Putin does see weakness in Germany's position. And I personally don't think that the NATO alliance is as strong as the administration's rhetoric would have us believe. So Putin's got to pick until he finds an opening and then he's going to try and increase that opening.

Time is on his side. He's not in any rush. These troops are outdoing maneuverings. It's true it's in the winter, but they're all Russians, they've been through Russian winters before. And as long as the price of oil is high, time is on his side.

SCIUTTO: Ambassador Bolton, Jim Sciutto back here. Audio problem solved now.

To date, the U.S. and NATO response has been to promise or warn of significant new economic sanctions on Russia if it were to further invade Ukraine, but also it has already moved more NATO forces to eastern NATO allies.

Is that sufficient deterrence in your view? And, if not, what more do you think is necessary?

BOLTON: No, I don't think it is sufficient deterrence. And I think we're in a situation where even if Biden means everything that he says and carries it through, Putin may not believe him based on history, based on the lack of an effective what western response after Russia went into Georgia in August of 2008 based on the lack of an effective response after Russia annexed Crimea and took effective control of two regions in the Donbas in 2014 after the withdrawal from Afghanistan last summer, which was a sign of weakness that both Moscow and Beijing noticed.

[09:35:24]

No, I don't think that the deterrence has been effectively established. And I have to say, honestly, this withdrawal of all American diplomats, urging U.S. and foreign people to leave Ukraine is another sign of weakness in Putin's eyes. I thin, you know, there's an old saying that generals always fight the last war. You can say the same thing about diplomats.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BOLTON: I think the administration is very worried about a repeat on international television of Afghanistan. And, for Putin, it's just another sign that we're not going to stand up to him.

SCIUTTO: Is there a devil's advocate argument on NATO, though, here? Because, for years, as you know, going back to your service in government, there have been questions about what is NATO's mission today, following the collapse of the Soviet Union.

But you do have NATO allies, largely on the same page here, saying this shall not stand. Perhaps not, in your view, deterring enough, but they're on the same page about this. They're moving forces east. And it at least reaffirms that perhaps you need NATO today, right, more than you needed it five or ten or 20 years ago. Is there a positive message for NATO from this?

BOLTON: Well, if they really stick together. I mean there's no doubt we need NATO more than -- more than ever. But the problem is, U.S. -- the U.S. posture in Europe since World War II has rested on the fundamental premise that peace and security and stability in Europe benefit the United States. We're not there out of an act of charity.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BOLTON: But NATO, however strong it is, leaves other nations like Ukraine exposed. It's in a zone of ambiguity between NATO and Russia. But, nonetheless, peace, security and stability in Europe can be threatened by an attack on a non-NATO country. And I don't think we've faced up to that fact.

SCIUTTO: Ambassador John Bolton, we appreciate you joining the program this morning.

BOLTON: Thanks for having me. SCIUTTO: And we are live in Kyiv, Ukraine, as the U.S. warns that

Russia could invade Ukraine in a matter of days. They're watching closely as we are. Stay with CNN's continuing coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:42:09]

GOLODRYGA: As Americans across the nation celebrate Black History Month, conservative parents and lawmakers are working overtime to challenge efforts to teach about race and racism. Lawmakers in at least 36 states have taken steps to restrict teaching about critical race theory since January of last week, according to "Education Week," even though the concept is usually taught at universities and rarely in K-12 schools.

Joining me now to discuss is Rachel Vindman, the co-host of "The Suburban Women Problem" podcast. She also serves as a senior adviser to "Red, Wine and Blue."

A little too early for wine, but we'll still talk about a lot of the major issues on the agenda there.

Rachel, great to see you.

So, talk about what you, and some 300,000 other suburban moms, are working on to sort of counter this pushback, largely from conservative parents in the country, conservative moms, to the idea of masks, to the idea of teaching about critical race theory or even talking about it, especially now during Black History Month.

RACHEL VINDMAN, CO-HOST, "THE SUBURBAN WOMEN PROBLEM" PODCAST: Sure. Well, thank you for having me, Bianna. It's a pleasure to join you.

And, you know, what we are doing to counter it is we are having a grassroots effort, which you will see there are some suburban mom groups on the right and they were conceived in D.C. think tanks and they're a very top-down approach and an answer to what the right and the conservative movement knows is a suburban women problem.

So, "Red, Wine and Blue" is a grassroots movement, very different approach. And what we're doing is talking to moms. We're talking about these book bans. We just recently launched a website called bookbanbusters.com. You can go on there. You can see the books that are banned, the books that are considered being banned in your area or all over the nation, actually. And, more importantly, and I think this is really the key thing, Bianna, we are training moms to do something about it, counter this, to equip themselves with information. We have what we call trouble (INAUDIBLE), which is an online training which is how to make good trouble. You know, in the spirit of John Lewis, how to go out and make a difference at a grassroots level. And I think that's really where we can gain control and help in this area.

GOLODRYGA: Given, as you describe this, as a grassroots program, an organic program, to talk to moms and to teach them how to respond, to counter what they're hearing at school board meetings across the country, do you get a sense that there is surprise that this topic is even as divisive as it is? I mean there are plenty of problems decades ago when you and I were in grade school and what have you.

VINDMAN: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: But it did seem like these issues -- let's put masks aside because, obviously, a pandemic is a once-in-a-lifetime-type of crisis.

[09:45:05]

But the other issues, book banning, all of that, it didn't seem to be an issue as all whether you're a Republican or a Democrat. Do they talk about concerns about why this is happening right now?

VINDMAN: Well, and I think it's happening right now because it is effective. I mean, you k now, critical race theory was very effective as being a divisive issue in the Virginia election. So it's a blueprint. If something works, then you run with it. I think they threw everything out there and that was something that got some traction. So, they're really all in with that and the book ban.

GOLODRYGA: And this --

VINDMAN: So I am originally -- go ahead.

GOLODRYGA: No, no, go ahead. Finish your thought.

VINDMAN: I'm originally from Edmond, Oklahoma. And my school district where I grew up assigned me to read "To Kill a Mockingbird," one of my favorite books, has banned "To Kill a Mockingbird." So why is that book now not OK but it was, you know, probably, I don't know, 35 years ago. I don't really want to do the math. But why was it OK then, but it's not OK now? I didn't feel bad about myself. I learned something. I learned a lot more than kids these days are going to learn because they have a much wider world view than I had in very white, suburban Edmond, Oklahoma.

So, I guess that's my question. I mean I'm asking a question with a question. There's nothing different about the book. The difference is they've seen a space where they can go in and cause some problems and it's been effective. But the counter to that is to not take the bait on arguing on the individual efforts. It's to go in and stop this at the ground level. And, you know, if you attend any of these school board meetings, you see they're just reading from a script. You know, it is, again, it's not their own views. If you counter it with some information, they don't know what to say because these aren't really their own personally held beliefs. This is what they're being fed to say. So if you can just counter it with a little bit of logic, a little bit of information, you know, that goes a long way. I might not convince those people, but it can convince the people on the sides who are watching. And I think that's really the wider audience that we're trying to reach.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, clearly, this has become a major political issue.

Rachel Vindman, thank you so much for joining us. We should just let your viewers know, if that name sounds familiar,

obviously your husband is Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman.

Thank you for joining us. We appreciate it.

VINDMAN: Thank you so much, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: Next time we'll do it in the afternoon or evening, so maybe there can be some wine involved.

VINDMAN: OK. Sounds great.

GOLODRYGA: Take care.

VINDMAN: Happy Valentine's Day.

GOLODRYGA: You, too.

VINDMAN: Bye-bye.

GOLODRYGA: Well, the Super Bowl halftime show rocked the stadium and the grand finale brought Eminem to his knee. The highlights from the big show and the big game, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:52:12]

GOLODRYGA: Well, the Los Angeles Rams are the new Super Bowl champions after defeating the Cincinnati Bengals last night 23-20.

CNN sports anchor Andy Scholes is in Englewood, California.

Andy, as is any Super Bowl, this one went down to the last few minutes. Could have been either teams to win. But, in the end, obviously, went to the Rams. I'm sure there are still fans celebrating this morning.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: I'm sure they are, Bianna. You know, it has finally quieted down here around this stadium. But I'll tell you what, the celebrations, they certainly did last until the wee hours of the morning. The fans just taking to the streets after the final whistle and the Rams were champions, setting off fireworks in the streets. Some fans even were jumping into the water fountains outside Sofi Stadium to celebrate.

Super Bowl LVI, you know, from start to finish, going to go down as one of the best ever. I mean it really had it all, including a fantastic finish that was just full of drama.

Show you some highlights.

Fourth quarter, the Rams were down 20-16. Matthew Stafford putting together a 15-play, 79-yard drive, ended with him hitting Cooper Kupp for his second touchdown reception of the game. Joe Burrow then had a chance to go win this game but Rams super star

Aaron Donald getting to him on fourth down, forcing the incompletion. Donald and that Rams' defense sacking Burrow a Super Bowl record tying seven time as the Rams stealing the win 23-20. Kupp was named the game's MVP and Donald was emotional on the field after delivering the Rams a Super Bowl title.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AARON DONALD, LOS ANGELES RAMS DEFENSIVE TACKLE: I'm just so happy. I wanted this so bad. I dreamed this, man, I dreamed this. And it's like -- it's surreal. Look at this. Look at this, man. This is -- I feel amazing. I feel amazing. I feel great.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: Yes, and this one a long time coming for Matthew Stafford. He spent 12 seasons in Detroit, suffered through a lot of losing. And this Super Bowl, you know, would not have been possible without a vacation to Mexico, actually. That's where Stafford and Rams coach Sean McVay ran into each other last off season. After some great conversations, McVay decided to trade for Stafford hoping he would get the Rams to a Super Bowl title. And, well, mission accomplished.

And what a season for Cooper Kupp. You know, he's been the best receiver in the NFL all year. He won the triple crown in receiving. That's most reception, most yards and most touchdowns. Kupp was also named the offensive player of the year last week. Now a Super Bowl MVP last night. Just a great journey for him. The only other receiver to do this in their career was Jerry Rice. And, think about that, Kupp did this all this season.

GOLODRYGA: Wow.

SCHOLES: Just incredible.

And Kupp's fellow wide receiver Van Jefferson, yes, had had the best night and his life, probably. His wife actually had to leave the Super Bowl because she went into labor.

[09:55:00]

So Jefferson cutting his celebration short, rushing over to the hospital, posted this amazing picture after the game of him holding his newborn son. So, what a night for Van Jefferson.

And, finally, leave you with what a halftime show. It -- you know, it was incredible. I've been to quite a few of these, Beyonce, Bruno Mars, Lady Gaga, they've all been great, but Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, Eminem, Mary J. Blige, and Kendrick Lamar putting on a show for the ages. And then Eminem kneeling on the stage after performing his hit song "Lose Yourself." Many believe that he did this as a tribute to Colin Kaepernick, who took a knee during the national anthem to protest police brutality and social injustice during the 2016 season. The NFL said they knew that Eminem was going to do this from the start. Now, the entire performance getting rave reviews. I don't think,

Bianna, I've seen a crowd more engaged, singing and dancing the whole time. It was just awesome. Many saying it was the best Super Bowl halftime performance of all time.

GOLODRYGA: Oh, Andy, you didn't see what was happening in my living room. I thoroughly embarrassed my kids, I'm sure as many gen-xers did across the country. I put my fork down, we were eating dinner, and I just started dancing. Something Pavlovian happened in me. It was all of the hit songs that I listened to decades ago. By the way --

SCHOLES: Yes, felt like college all over again.

GOLODRYGA: Exactly. And they look ageless too.

SCHOLES: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: The entertainers just looked phenomenal. It was a wonderful game and a wonderful halftime show.

SCHOLES: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: Andy Scholes, thanks, as always.

SCHOLES: All right.

GOLODRYGA: And straight ahead, the U.S. is warning Russia could invade Ukraine this week. CNN is learning just how they plan to do it. We're on the ground in Ukraine with live team coverage up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)