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Russian Troop Build-Up Continues; Defense Secretary at NATO Talks; U.S. Sees No Meaningful Pullback of Russian Forces; CDC Planning to Loosen Mask Guidance; Stem Cell Use for HIV; San Francisco Recalls Three School Board Members. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired February 16, 2022 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:00:19]

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Happening right now, while Russian President Vladimir Putin claims he is de-escalating tensions, the U.S. secretary of state says there is no evidence of a pullback.

Good morning, everybody. I'm Bianna Golodryga in New York.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto reporting from Kyiv, Ukraine.

This morning, Secretary of State Antony Blinken says there is no meaningful pullback of Russian forces around Ukraine. NATO says, in fact, that Russia is further building up its military capabilities and forces on the border. U.S. and NATO allies say they see no evidence of de-escalation, this despite Russia claiming they are drawing down troops.

Today, the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelensky, working to fend off a war with Russia as his country faces a growing threat.

All this as President Biden has sent a direct message, one of peace, to the Russian people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're not targeting the people of Russia. We do not seek to destabilize Russia.

To the citizens of Russia, you are not our enemy. And I do not believe you want a bloody, destructive war against Ukraine.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SCIUTTO: This morning, I am told by a senior U.S. official that the U.S. is watching the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine very closely. Putin is claiming crimes against ethnic Russians there as the Russian parliament considers recognizing the region as independent from Ukraine. The U.S. concern is that Russia may use this as a pretext for further military action in eastern Ukraine.

We do want to begin this morning with CNN senior international correspondent Matthew Chance, here with me in Kyiv.

And, Matthew, you have some new reporting about the Ukrainian military's view of Russia's capabilities along the border.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, we've got exclusively to CNN this morning a Ukrainian military intelligence assessment of the disposition of forces around the region. And what it's saying centrally is that it does not believe the Ukrainian military that the Russian military contingent near the Ukrainian borders is sufficient to carry out a large-scale military attack inside Ukraine or against Ukraine. That's obviously slightly at odds with the assessment the United States has made. It also underlines this sort of long-standing view of Ukrainian officials that even though there are troops, tens of thousands of them, gathered near the Ukrainian border, it doesn't necessarily mean that they think that Russia is going to press the button, pull the trigger or whatever, and start -- launch an invasion.

In terms of the figures, though, they're going in the wrong direction according to this Ukrainian intelligence assessment. They've gone up to assessing -- there are approximately or more than 148,000 troops in total ground, air and sea from the Russian armed forces, poised near that border region. And that brings it much more in line with what President Biden said yesterday, that there was about 150,000 there. So, it seems they've got the same intel on that issue.

SCIUTTO: So the question, and perhaps not yet if they're on the same page, 150,000, we're aware, we've seen the pictures of all the various capabilities, do Ukrainian officials say at some point in the near future they will have the capability for a broad invasion?

CHANCE: Well, no one in Ukraine is ruling out, of course, the possibility that Russia could do this in the future. And, of course, Moscow represents a credible threat. The point Ukrainians are trying to underline is that they do not see that threat at sort of, you know, trigger point at the moment. Whether that changes in the future, we'll see.

SCIUTTO: Another question, because I've been told that U.S. officials watching Donbas very closely. We heard the comments outrageously by Putin just to say that there's genocide going on there, but crimes against ethnic Russians.

CHANCE: Yes.

SCIUTTO: You have the duma, the Russian parliament, considering recognizing it as independent. The concern being Russia uses that as a pretext for either annexation, recognition or further military action.

CHANCE: Yes, it's definitely a possibility. The fact that there's a bill progressing through the Russian parliament at the moment, which would give Vladimir Putin the option of recognizing those rebel republics, rebel regions in Ukraine as independent states is something that we have to look at -- look at closely.

And, of course, Russia always has the option of, you know, going in militarily, increasing its pressure there. There's already 35,000, according to Ukrainian estimates, rebel forces backed by Russia in that Donbas region, the one with the bits controlled by Russia. And so it, obviously, poses an additional sort of military flashpoint threat to this country.

SCIUTTO: Matthew Chance, great reporting. Thanks very much.

And, of course, we always remind Donbas, it's part of a sovereign Ukraine that this is Ukrainian territory. That's the view of the international community and international law.

Happening right now, the defense secretary of the U.S., Lloyd Austin, he is meeting with NATO leaders in Brussels on Russia's continued military buildup. We'll speak with Germany's defense minister in the next hour.

[09:05:02]

CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr, she is following this.

Barbara, Austin, at the NATO Defense Ministerial, which opened this morning. What are the U.S. priorities here? Is it keeping the alliance together?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, I think the feeling that the Pentagon and in the Biden administration is that the alliance is largely together on this question. For Austin, the key issues, we're told, are to underscore that very point, to underscore that the U.S. has an unshakable commitment to the defense, the collective defense of the NATO member countries. And what that really means is those countries on the border with Russia, Poland, the Baltics, Romania, the countries that are so nervous about what may come next with Russia.

So, there will be reassurance on that. There will be discussions about the way ahead. Will it require more troops? And could that potentially, we don't know the answer, mean additional U.S. troops going to eastern Europe to help with that deterrent and reassurance mission.

But, right now, fundamentally, as you are pointing out, the facts on the ground for the U.S. have not changed. They do not believe that Russia has substantially, in any way, withdrawn troops from the front- line positions towards the Ukraine border. They don't believe there's been any substantive pullback and the assessment remains that Russia could launch an attack at a time and place of its choosing. And that could mean anytime. And that means the fundamental question that everybody is struggling with is, what is in Vladimir Putin's mind. And the real answer is, nobody knows.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: No question. Barbara Starr, at the Pentagon, thanks so much.

As we were discussing, just moments ago, the secretary of state, Antony Blinken, said that Russia definitively not pulling back forces in a meaningful way in the front lines on the Ukrainian border.

Have a listen to his words.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: We continue to see not only these forces amassed (ph), we continue to see critical units moving toward the border, not away from the border. So, what we need to see is exactly the opposite. We need to see these forces moving away. We've heard what the -- what the Kremlin said about this. As President Biden said yesterday, we'd welcome that, but we haven't seen it on the ground. And the bottom line is this, we're prepared either way. We're prepared to engage in diplomacy with Russia. If it's serious about it, we're also prepared for renewed Russian aggression.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: Joining us now, retired Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt and Seth Jones, international security program director for the Center for Strategic and International Studies and author of "Three Dangerous Men: Russia, China, Iran and the Rise of Irregular Warfare."

Welcome, both of you.

Brigadier General Kimmitt, let me begin with you because we are getting conflicting signals with the Kremlin saying that they are starting to withdraw troops. Both the U.S. and NATO officials saying they are not seeing any signs of that happening. In fact, they're seeing the opposite.

What is it that you are going to be focusing on in the hours and days ahead? I'm specifically curious to get your thoughts on what's happening in Belarus, and the military exercises there. They were scheduled to end on the 20th. Belarusian officials saying that U.S. -- that Russian soldiers will be leaving then. Should we believe that?

BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Well, I think the most important indicator would be that the far east troops that they have, they brought in units from very, very far away in the eastern part of Russia, and the central part of Russia. Those are clearly the most expensive troops to maintain in the battlefield and inside of Belarus. If they're serious about reducing the tensions, those would be the forces that I would expect to see to leave.

I would also want to see the logistics elements that are along the border right now pulling back as well because without logistics you really can't have any kind of significant invasion for any period of time. So, watch those troops from the far east. Watch those logistics. Those would be my indicator if there truly is a de-escalation of the military.

SCIUTTO: It's also worth remembering that Russian lies about military movements, if you go back to 2014 when they first invaded Ukraine, Russian forces went in without insignia, the little green men as they were known. Russia denied they were Russian for weeks. And, of course, eight years later those forces are still there and that territory is Russians.

Seth Jones, I want to talk to you about this discussion at least of diplomacy because we noted this morning that Russia's representative to the OSCE, an organization for security here in Europe, again said, Ukrainian membership in NATO is of the table. We know that is a non- starter for the U.S. and its NATO allies. So if that's still the public commentary from senior Russian officials, where is the actual space for negotiation here?

SETH JONES, INTERNATIONAL SECURITY PROGRAM DIRECTOR, CSIS: I just don't see the space for negotiation at this point. Everything that the Russians are asking for, I don't think they're going to get.

[09:10:04]

And, in fact, the -- if you're looking at this from Moscow's perspective, the Ukrainians have gotten more weapons, they've gotten some stingers, they've gotten end laws, they've gotten other surface to air and anti-tank missiles, including javelins. So the Ukrainians are increasingly better prepared to fight them.

So, I think from a Russian perspective, the situation is much worse for a fight today than it was even two weeks ago.

GOLODRYGA: Brigadier General, would you agree with that? Do you think we are closer to potential reinvasion by Russian forces today than we were two weeks ago?

KIMMITT: Well, look, I think it's important to remember that -- that war and invasion is not the end. It is a means to an end. So the question is, what is Putin trying to achieve either by being on the border or being inside of Ukraine. And it really comes down to this issue of negotiations.

The core principles haven't changed. He wants us, he wants NATO to not accept Ukraine into NATO. He wants to ensure that the ballistic missiles stationed in Romania and Poland are gone. And he simply wants to see a lessening of the expansion of NATO. That's the room for negotiation. But as Seth Jones said, it's very unlikely that we are going to be negotiating on those core principles.

SCIUTTO: Seth, clearly the U.S. saw something that led them to raise the alarm about the possibility of military action this week. It hasn't happened as of today. And, listen, it could happen tomorrow or in days or weeks. This is an unpredictable leader in Vladimir Putin.

That said, I wonder, is it possible that Vladimir Putin miscalculated here, that he underestimated the potential for NATO unity on this issue or NATO's ability to threaten economic sanctions, further move forces to the east, NATO forces? Is it possible that he blinked?

JONES: It is possible that the situation is not quite going in the direction that Vladimir Putin wanted. Both from a NATO but also from a Ukrainian perspective. There has been more unity than many expected within NATO. They've provided some weapons and other assistance to the Ukrainians. And the Ukrainians have actually showed probably more morale than the Russians. Part of what hasn't been identified a lot in the media is the extraordinary psychological operations and denial and deception, what the Russians call mascarofca (ph), that have been pushed against the Ukrainian population. But Zelensky has held firm so far and it looks like the Ukrainians are willing to fight. I think they had hoped -- Putin had hoped the Ukrainians would fold.

GOLODRYGA: And, quickly, Seth, let me just ask you, time really is on Vladimir Putin's side, right? He's accountable to no one at home. He's got, you know, quote/unquote, elections in two years. He could keep a significant amount of forces there for a long period of time. Do you think the U.S. has the appetite to continue to support Ukraine, both militarily and financially, as their economy continues to suffer?

JONES: Well, first of all, I don't think that actually Putin can keep his forces as far advanced as he has them right now, both in Belarus and in Russia itself. It's -- the operation and maintenance, O&M costs, are pretty expensive to do that. But I do think so much is at stake right now that it does make sense for the U.S. and NATO to provide assistance to Ukraine and not let it fall into Russian hands.

GOLODRYGA: Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt and Seth Jones, thank you so much for joining us.

And still to come, the CDC be prepared -- is the CDC preparing to loosen indoor mask restrictions? The latest on when the guidance might change. That's next.

Plus, three members of a San Francisco school board are recalled after furious parents say they did more work renaming dozens of schools during the pandemic than getting their kids back into the classroom.

Also ahead, a six-year-old little girl, abducted over two years ago, found alive, hidden in a home under the staircase. We'll give you more details up next.

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CHIEF JOSEPH SINAGRA, SAUGERTIES, NEW YORK POLICE: The detective said there was something odd about the stairs, just the way they were constructed, the way they felt when he was walking on them.

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GOLODRYGA: It's a story you don't want to miss.

Stay with us.

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[09:18:45]

GOLODRYGA: In a little over 90 minutes, CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky will face questions about the agency's indoor masking guidance, as several reports indicate that the agency could loosen those guidelines within days.

Last week, Walensky said the CDC was reviewing mitigation guidance as cases and hospitalizations fall across the country, but said right now the agency is sticking to current recommendations.

CNN's Elizabeth Cohen joins me now.

So, Elizabeth, a lot of people will be focusing to this press conference. What can we expect to hear about guidance changing in the near future?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I think we might be hearing a little bit or even maybe a lot of bit towards changing this guidance. So many states have announced recently that they're going to change guidance. And these are blue states, Bianna. These are states that have been really strict about the pandemic and they're saying, you know, we're going to lift mask mandates indoors or in schools or possibly both. But, right, now, as we speak, the CDC is holding firm.

I want to show you a map. If you look at this map, everything in red the CDC says you should have an indoor mask mandate. That's almost the entire country. Those are communities of high transmission, everyone there is supposed to have indoor mask mandates by the CDC guidance. You have to think that's going to change because things have changed so much.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, a big change also this morning, people responding to headlines that there might be a game changer in how the medical community treats HIV using umbilical cord blood.

[09:20:07]

Talk about that.

COHEN: You know what, this is scientifically really fascinating. It's not going to be a change for most people with HIV, but it's still fascinating. So, there was this woman in the United States. She had HIV. And then afterwards she was diagnosed with leukemia and doctors needed to do a stem cell transplant. So they intentionally sought out umbilical cord cells from a newborn who had a particular genetic variation that made them resistant to HIV. They sought that out intentionally.

They gave her that transplant, and four years later, she's cured of HIV. It's just amazing. She's the third person this has happened to. It's still significant because what's interesting is this woman, unlike the other two, did not get something called Graft Versus Host Disease, which is a terrible complication of a transplant. So, Bianna, you might think, well, why don't we do this for everyone with HIV. And the reason is, we have great drugs for HIV. Stem cell transplants are incredibly dangerous, a very high fatality rate. Still, useful maybe for people like her.

So, let's take a listen to Dr. Anthony Fauci.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: This person happened to have an underlying disease which required a stem cell transplant. So, I don't want people to think that now this is something that can be applied to the 36 million people who are living with HIV.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: Right. So really important for people like her who have HIV and a blood cancer that requires a transfusion.

GOLODRYGA: Right.

COHEN: But -- or requires a stem cell transplant, but not for everyone.

GOLODRYGA: But, as you said, wow, the lengths we have come, right, over the past few decades in treatment of HIV, where people can actually live with it as a chronic disease.

COHEN: It's just amazing. Yes. Yes, almost like diabetes. Right. Exactly.

GOLODRYGA: Yes.

Elizabeth Cohen, great to see you. Thank you.

COHEN: Thanks.

GOLODRYGA: Well, new this morning, CNN projects that voters successfully recalled three members of the San Francisco Unified School Board in a special election. This all stems from frustrated parents who say the board prioritized other projects instead of getting kids back in the classroom during the pandemic. Mayor London Breed tweeted her support, saying in part, the school board must focus on the essentials of delivering a well-run school system above all else.

CNN's Nick Watt joins me live from Los Angeles.

Nick, this is a blue city, angry with the return to school delays. I've been covering a lot of this last year. What ended up happening in this case?

NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen, big, big picture here is last year we saw Governor Gavin Newsom of California very easily survive a recall that was driven in large part by his strict Covid restrictions. And now we have just seen these three school board members in San Francisco recalled, booted out, very easily in large part because of their strict Covid restrictions as well. Listen, it's not a perfect bellwether because, of course, there are

other deep seeded local issues that were at play here. But, of course, the thinking is going into the midterms, you know, protests against Covid restrictions are not just a red state thing anymore. We are seeing them in blue cities like San Francisco. And polling bears that out that seven in ten Americans now just want to get back to some normal life.

Now, you read that statement from London Breed in which she says that, you know, school boards need to focus on the essentials, you know, above all else. And what she's referring to there is one of the major sticks that was used to beat these three school board members during this recall, which is that while San Francisco schools were closed for over a year, the school board was working to try and rename 44 schools named for people that they decided they didn't want to honor anymore, like Abraham Lincoln and Dianne Feinstein. So, you know, this brought in a lot of national attention and a lot of big money donors.

Let's hear what some parents had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I saw like his struggling, you know, work -- you know, doing school from home. And I saw the school board prioritize renaming schools.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The kids had only about six weeks of in class instruction last year. I mean, before summer break. So, that is a huge loss when it comes to kids who are coming from difficult socioeconomic situations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT: Now, the school board members say, listen, this renaming issue was happening, began long before Covid. And they also say, we're not getting any credit for the very low Covid case numbers in San Francisco, which we helped with that effort.

Back to you.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, a bit difficult to give them credit given that so many other school districts across the country were able to bring kids back in and keep the Covid spread relatively low.

WATT: Exactly.

GOLODRYGA: Nick Watt, thank you so much.

And still ahead, rising inflation is costing American families hundreds of extra dollars each month. We'll break down the numbers for you up next.

[09:25:00]

And we are moments away from the opening bell on Wall Street. Stocks slipping this morning as investors monitor tensions between Russia and Ukraine, wary of the uncertainty going on over there. Along with that, Wall Street monitoring how quickly the Federal Reserve may raise interest rates here in the U.S., has led to heightened volatility in the markets. We'll stay on top of all of it.

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