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Defense Secretary in Brussels for NATO Talks Amid Ukraine Crisis; FAA Says, Unruly Passenger Cases More Than Doubled Since November; Federal Civil Trials Over George Floyd's Death Resumes Today. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired February 16, 2022 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:01]

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: It's so great to hear that, that they are rising to the top here despite all of these negative headlines and fighting for what's quite frankly right. Christine Brennan, thank you, as always, for your reporting.

CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: Sure.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: A very good Wednesday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto reporting from Kyiv, Ukraine.

GOLODRYGA: And I'm Bianna Golodryga in New York.

Right now, NATO defense ministers convening in the face of an immense threat surrounding Ukraine, this while Russia claims that it's deescalating tensions. But Secretary of State Antony Blinken says the U.S. has seen no signs of that.

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ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: Unfortunately, there is a difference between what Russia says and what it does. And what we're seeing is no meaningful pullback. On the contrary, we continue to see forces, especially forces that would be in the vanguard of any renewed aggression against Ukraine continuing to be at the border, to amass at the border.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: This morning, I'm told by a senior U.S. official that the U.S. is watching the Donbas region of Eastern Ukraine very closely. Putin's claims of crimes against ethnic Russians there, this as the Russian parliament considers recognizing the region its independence has the U.S. fearing Russia may use this as a pretext to further invade Eastern Ukraine.

And this morning, CNN has new exclusive reporting. According to the latest Ukrainian intelligence assessments, the Ukranian government believes that Russia does not yet have enough troops near its border to effectively invade this country.

CNN Chief International Correspondent Clarissa Ward, she is with me in Kyiv, also CNN Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr standing by.

First to you, though, Clarissa. The Ukranian military, once again, frankly, on a somewhat different page from the U.S military assessment.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what's so interesting about this is when you look at the intelligence report, they agree with the U.S. in terms of the number Russian troops. They say just over 148,000. President Biden yesterday talked about 150,000. But they dispute the notion that that is enough troops for a full- scale invasion.

Now, I don't think it's entirely surprising that they might still try to continue to downplay the threat of a large-scale invasion. It's important to remember that they see Russia's strategy here as being not just to potentially launch an invasion but to destabilize Ukraine with the threat of an invasion, with cyberattacks.

And so what they are trying to do at the moment, I think, even though, of course this is an internal report, not designed for public consumption, but is to really try to alleviate fears of a full-scale invasion and try to keep up some semblance of normalcy in the country.

And, certainly, I think, Jim, you would agree, that's largely what we've been seeing on the streets of Kyiv here. People are going about their normal lives. They have lived in the shadow of Russian for eight years, and they see this, I think, primarily as being a war of words at this stage.

But from everything we're hearing, despite Russian claims that troops are being withdrawn, it seems that quite the reverse is happening. The troops are still there and even increasing in places. And so you have this kind of push-pull constantly for Ukraine where what it wants to believe is happening versus what it sees happening.

SCIUTTO: And this difference -- and, by the way, the Ukrainians do say quite a large forces on the border, but there's been consistent difference in tone, right, in urgency between going back a number of weeks between Ukrainian and U.S. officials.

You've been covering this story very closely. You've been covering this region for a long time. Do you sense any overstatement of the threat, perhaps, knowing how Putin operates and drags things out and likes to play disinformation warfare, but any overstatement of the threat, perhaps, by some in the west?

WARD: I think we have to take into consideration that part of the tactic here, quite clearly, from the U.S. side is to keep sounding that alarm, keep ringing that alarm. The media is part of that. Keep pushing that pressure on the part of the Kremlin, make it clear that the world is not taking its eye off the ball. Because we've seen before that the minute people start to relax, start to turn their gaze, the news caravan moves on, that's the moment where Putin tends to sort of exploit the moment and launch maybe not a full-scale invasion but some of the different sort of itinerations that have been put out there as possibility. SCIUTTO: Including this potential focus Donbas. Clarissa Ward, fantastic reporting, thanks very much. Bianna?

GOLODRYGA: Yes. Really interesting to hear President Biden directly address the Russian people there, saying that they are not the U.S.' enemy and that they, too, would not want a bloody war.

Meantime, Barbara, let's turn to you, because Defense Secretary Austin is in a NATO Ministerial, which opened this morning. What are the U.S. priorities that are being laid out?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, during this two-day ministers' meeting, what they are looking at front and center, of course, is what is happening on the Ukraine-Russian border. For Austin, it's a question both of Russian capabilities and Vladimir Putin's intention.

[10:05:00]

And that's the big, unanswered question, what does he intend to do? I think it's fair to say all senior U.S. officials agree they simply don't know.

So, Austin, in talking with his counterparts, with the allies in NATO, looking at what they have on the ground, do they have enough, are they able to reassure the NATO allies on that eastern flank, the Baltics, Poland, Romania, the NATO commitment to defend them against Russia, if it were to come to that, is unshakeable and that NATO will be there.

Will more U.S. troops be required to be sent there to be in those NATO countries on the eastern flank? Not at all clear yet. We're told no immediate plans for that. But, look, they are dealing with a situation now that Putin has not pulled back. That is, you know, the assessment we see across the Biden administration, that there is no solid evidence Putin has pulled back on his military capability, so they continue to watch for what his intentions may be. Bianna?

GOLODRYGA: And Lloyd Austin being there on the ground, showing once again the U.S. exhibiting a sign of unity amongst its NATO allies and members. Barbara Starr, thank you so much. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Joining me now to discuss, State Department Spokesman Ned Price. Ned, good to have you on this morning.

NED PRICE, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: Thanks for having me, Jim.

SCIUTTO: At the end of last week, we heard urgent concern from U.S. officials, yourself included, that military action by Russia in Ukraine could happen as soon as this week. Here we are on Wednesday. Is it still the U.S. view that an invasion is imminent, or is Ukraine less at risk today than it was a number of days ago?

PRICE: Well, Jim, put very simply, our concern has not abated a single bit. And, in fact, we've seen, as you've heard from the secretary this morning, as you've heard from the NATO secretary- general, no meaningful sign of de-escalation, no meaningful Russian troop withdrawals from the borders, in fact, to the contrary.

I would make two points. We have continued to see Russian forces flow to the border, we've continued to see forces along the border actually move into fighting positions. And number two, look, Jim, we know the Russian playbook. We know the Russians engage in misinformation and disinformation. We have good reason to believe the Russians are saying one thing and doing another in an effort to obfuscate, in an effort to hide the truth.

The threat is very real, as you've heard from us for several days now. We are well within the window where Vladimir Putin, were he to choose to do so, could order an attack against Ukraine. That has not changed.

SCIUTTO: You've heard CNN's reporting that it's Ukrainian military's view that while they have a similar number to the U.S., that is of about 150,000 Russian forces now deployed on the border, but it's their view it does not yet have the capability to invade or stage a broad-scale invasion of the U.S. -- of the Ukraine today. Why that difference between the U.S. and the Ukrainian view? Is it still the U.S. view that it has the capability to carry out a broad-scale invasion right away? Because, remember, there was the assessment that it needed to reach about 175,000 forces.

PRICE: Well, Jim, I can't speak for the Ukrainian military, but what I can tell you is what we're doing with our Ukrainian partners. And we are being entirely transparent with them. We are sharing intelligence information. We are sharing all of the relevant information that is at our disposal to make sure that we're operating from the same sheet of music.

And facts are undisputed here. As you heard from the president yesterday, the Russians have upwards of 150,000 troops, a raid on Ukraine's borders forces inside what should be the sovereign independent country of Belarus. These forces are ready to go should President Putin give that order.

So, regardless of what that -- what form that aggression takes, if we're talking about aerial bombardment, if we're talking about electronic warfare followed by bombardment, if we're talking about something resembling a fuller scale invasion, Putin has, as he wants to do, given himself, a great degree of optionality. Those options, the fact that Putin can take any number of courses were he choose to do so, that is what gives us profound concern.

SCIUTTO: You're saying courses short of a full-scale invasion, perhaps smaller, less ambitious military action?

PRICE: Well, we know that the playbook is long. We know that the playbook could include everything from cyberattacks to electronic warfare to aerial bombardment to a large-scale incursion. We are prepared for every eventuality. We're prepared for every contingency.

But let me make one additional point, Jim. Of course, we're doing everything we can to deter this. We're doing everything we can to prevent this. It remains our strong, strong, strong preference to engage in diplomacy that deescalates this. But in order for that diplomacy to bear fruit, it will have to take place in the context of de-escalation.

[10:10:05]

The Russians will have to take meaningful steps that they have yet to take.

SCIUTTO: Okay. On the path to diplomacy, we found it notable today that Russia's representative to the OSCE again stated that Ukrainian membership in NATO has to be off the table. The president has said that is a non-starter, other NATO leaders have said that's a non- starter. If Russia is sticking to that position, where exactly is the room for diplomacy?

PRICE: Well, Jim, we have put forward more than a couple weeks ago now a series of areas where we believe that together with our partners, through good faith discussions, we could arrive at ideas, proposals that work to our benefit, work to our security benefit, that address the security concerns of our partners and allies in Europe, but also address the stated concerns of the Russians.

And we've talked about some of those, the placement of offensive missiles in Europe, transparency measures, stability measures, broader arms control measures. We believe all of those areas are ripe for discussion with the Russian Federation if they choose to engage in good faith.

And the secretary spoke with his counterpart, Foreign Minister Lavrov, yesterday. Foreign Minister Lavrov said that a Russian response to our proposals would be forthcoming in the next couple days. We hope to receive that. We will examine that very carefully, hoping that we will see room for discussions together with our partners and allies with the Russian Federation.

But some things, Jim, are just off the table. There is a broad principle at play here. No country, no matter how big that country is, regardless of whether that country has nuclear weapons, can dictate the foreign policy choices of another country, the aspirations of another country, the partnerships, the alliances of any other country. That's what's at play here.

SCIUTTO: Okay. I do want to ask you about a particular region of Ukraine, and that is the Donbas. You've noticed, you heard the Russian president outrageously use the term genocide in relation to his claims that there are crimes being committed against ethnic Russians there, but also at the same time that the Russian Duma, as you know, is considering recognizing it as independent.

I've been told that there is some concern that Russia would use those claims as a pretext either to formally recognize Donbas, in effect, slice off another piece of Ukraine or perhaps carry out further military action there. I wonder, do you share that concern?

PRICE: Well, that's precisely our concern. It's precisely our concern for two reasons. Number one, we know the history well. We know what happened in 2014. Russia manufactured a pretext, used that pretext to aggress against Ukraine in a way that has had long lasting implications for Ukraine. But number two, we are concerned based on what we know, based on an array of information that Russia will seek to do the same thing here, essentially fabricate a pretext, point to that pretext, use that pretext as a reason to take aggression against Ukraine.

The reason we're being so transparent with the American people, with the international public, we want everyone to go into this with eyes wide open. We want people to know that when Russia says, X, it certainly doesn't mean that's the case. We have seen the Russians engage in disinformation. We have reason to believe they may be planning to do so again here.

SCIUTTO: Remember the little green men from Crimea in 2014. Ned Price, State Department Spokesman, thanks so much for taking time this morning.

PRICE: Thanks, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Bianna, back to you.

GOLODRYGA: Well, still to come, unruly passengers, you've been warned. Some airline workers are pushing for offenders to be placed on a do-not-fly list. Brand new reporting from the Justice Department on that, up next.

Plus, Bob Saget's family is now suing to keep details of the actor's investigation private. What the sheriff's office is saying about that lawsuit this morning.

And new details in the five-year-long investigation into who killed Delphi, Indiana, teens Abigail Williams and Liberty German. What we're learning about that crucial cell phone video you just saw, up next.

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[10:15:00]

GOLODRYGA: New this morning, the FAA telling CNN that the number of unruly passenger cases is referred to the Justice Department has more than doubled since November.

CNN's Pete Muntean joins me now. So, Pete, we've been covering these instances. Break down these numbers for us, though.

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bianna, 43 new cases, 80 cases have now been referred to the Justice Department. We know these numbers are off the charts of unruly passengers and violent incidents. This was past Sunday, we saw an incident of a passenger being hit by a coffee pot from a flight attendant as that passenger was supposedly trying to open the door of an American Airlines flight on its way from L.A. to D.C. The flight had to divert and land in Kansas City.

We know these number of cases being referred to the Justice Department is are going up and up. It was 43 -- sorry, 37 at last check back in December, because the number of unruly cases overall is huge. This has really just a small number of the number of reports that flight crews have submitted to the FAA of these violent, ugly incidents, 499 so far this year, 5,981 in 2021.

So, when you add those up, this really only represents about 1.2 percent of these cases being referred to the Justice Department.

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And the FAA says these are only the most egregious, only the most severe cases of unruly passengers, because the rub is that the FAA simply cannot press criminal charges, it can only bring civil fines, and they say this really has to clear a high bar for one of these cases to go to federal prosecutors.

We have seen this over and over again, and we know there is new pressure on the Justice Department to try and add a no-fly list for unruly passengers, pressure from airlines, including Delta, which sent a letter to A.G. Merrick Garland earlier this month. But there is some pushback against that. Eight Republican senators have written the Justice Department saying it should not do that, likening those who are unruly on board commercial airplanes to terrorists.

This is a quote from that letter. It says, creating a federal no-fly list for unruly passengers who are skeptical of the federal mask mandate, which remains in place until March 18th, would seemingly equate them to terrorists. It is a really severe accusation there, they say, and that they should not be added on that list along with those who are terrorists. We will see how this unfolds, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: It doesn't seem like it's a binary situation. And as we know, it's been putting the flight crews and the flight attendants in really untenable positions and situations. We really feel for them. Pete Muntean, thank you so much.

Well, in just minutes, the federal civil rights trial for three of the ex-Minneapolis police officers who were at the scene of George Floyd's murder will resume in Minnesota. Prosecutors will continue to cross- examine one of those former cops, Tou Thao, today. The defendants have pleaded not guilty to charges of failing to intervene as Derek Chauvin kneeled on Floyd's neck until he died.

Chauvin was convicted of state murder charges and pleaded guilty to federal civil rights charges in December as part of a plea deal. He now faces up to a 25-year prison sentence.

CNN's Adrienne Broaddus joins us now. Adrienne, what more do we expect to hear today?

ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Bianna, good morning. Expect more testimony during cross-examination from Tou Thao. It's his opportunity to tell his side of the story. And we started hearing his perspective from that day on yesterday.

Now, Thao said is his role that day was crowd control, calling himself, quote, a human traffic cone. His defense attorney, Bob Pauley, also showed some of the body-worn camera that Thao wore on that day. Thao testified he though Floyd was on drugs. He also claims he requested EMS to arrive quickly. He said he thought his colleagues, the other officers who were on scene, were monitoring Floyd's medical condition.

The defense also showed images of Thao's training, and some of those pictures show a person in handcuffs with the officer having a knee on that person's neck in these pictures. Now, Thao said this practice was not uncommon. When asked why a knee would be used in the exercises, Thao responded, quote, to prevent them from rolling around or get up.

Now, let's look at some of the things he said on cross-examination. We're going to put this on the screen for you. The federal prosecutor LeeAnn Belle asked, did you see Officer Chauvin's knee on Mr. Floyd's neck? Thao responded, I did. Moments later, Belle asked, you were in a position to hear Mr. Floyd stop talking? Yes, Thao replied. And also during a cross-examination, Attorney Earl Gray reminded jurors it was the first week on the job for two of the other officers, J. Alexander King and Thomas Lane.

These former officers will also testify in their own defense. Thoa, when testifying yesterday, mentioned that he knew they had only been on the job a few days. Bianna?

GOLODRYGA: Adrienne Broaddus, thank you so much.

Bob Saget's family is now fighting to keep records related to his death out of the public eye, and the Orange County sheriff is responding now to the lawsuit, what they're saying, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:25:00]

GOLODRYGA: Both a gut-wrenching and miraculous story out of New York, the six-year-old girl who was abducted by her non-custodial biological parents over two years ago has now been found alive. This as Paislee Shultis, authorities found her in a dark and wet space hidden under a staircase in the same house that they had visited several times before and after receiving tips. But the residents always denied that she was there. Well, after looking around for over an hour, police made the discovery.

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CHIEF JOSEPH SINAGRA, SAUGERTIES, NEW YORK POLICE: Our officers were up and down those steps several times and never heard -- the child never made a sound. But the detective said there was something odd about the stairs, just the way they were constructed, the way they felt when he was walking on them. And he said he took a closer look at the stairs. And between two of the stair boards, there is a crack. He used a flashlight, looked in there and he saw what he believed was a blanket at the bottom.

So, they used a hollowing (ph) tool and they started removing the steps of the staircase, and sure and behold, they found a little pair of feet. (END VIDEO CLIP)

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