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Kamila Valieva Falls Short at Olympics; Interview With Former U.S. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel; Russian Invasion Threat Escalating?. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired February 17, 2022 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:10]

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

We are following a day of rapid developments and escalations in the Russia-Ukraine crisis.

President Biden and his secretary of state with a clear message today: Russia is lying to the world. Now, Moscow maintains it is pulling back troops from the Ukrainian border, while the U.S. and its allies say evidence shows Russia is actually bolstering its combat readiness, adding thousands of troops, even stockpiling blood supplies.

They warn an invasion of Ukraine is imminent.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have reason to believe that they are engaged in a false flag operation to have an excuse to go in. Every indication we have is they're prepared to go into Ukraine, attack Ukraine.

My sense, this will happen within the next several days.

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Russia plans to manufacture a pretext for its attack. This could be a violent event that Russia will blame on Ukraine or an outrageous accusation that Russia will level against the Ukrainian government.

We don't know exactly the form it will take. It could be a fabricated so-called terrorist bombing inside Russia, the invented discovery of the mass grave, a staged drone strike against civilians, or a fake, even a real attack using chemical weapons.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: So, Blinken says the pretext is being set, those comments just hours after Ukrainian armed forces reported shelling that hit a preschool. This is in the disputed Donbass region.

CNN correspondents are covering every detail of this developing story.

Let's begin with Jim Sciutto in Kyiv, the capital of Ukraine.

Jim, how significant is this shelling of that preschool?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think we have to look at it as one point in a very broad picture here, as described by the secretary of state, a picture of disinformation, possibility of Russia manufacturing pretext.

So this is a case where the shells, according to the Ukrainian military, came from the Russian-controlled side of the line of contact there in Eastern Ukraine. At the same time, folks on the other side of that line in the Russian-backed area, they're saying that the Ukrainians were shelling them.

Now, shelling has happened in this area for years. There's been war in Ukraine for some eight years, 14,000 people killed. But the bigger picture is the concern among the U.S. and NATO that Russia will use an incident like that, or perhaps other incidents, a stage terror attack, as he described there, even a staged chemical weapons attack or drone strike, blame it on the Ukrainians or the West, NATO, the U.S., and then use that as a pretext to further invade the country.

That has been a consistent message from U.S. and NATO officials for some time, that that would be a precursor to an invasion. But, at the same time, the other headline today really, Ana, is that you have a consistent message from U.S. and NATO officials that and the president, by the way, that invasion of this country could happen at any time, any day now, they said -- Ana.

CABRERA: The world's watching, the region obviously at heightened alert.

I want to go to Frederik Pleitgen, who's in Belarus, which also borders Russia and Ukraine.

And, Fred, you were able to speak with the president of Belarus, an ally of the Russians. What did he tell you?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, one of the strongest allies of the Russians and of Vladimir Putin.

And we also got some pretty remarkable access on the ground here, Ana. We for the first time were actually able to see some of those Russian forces that the U.S. says is threatening Ukraine. Now, they were in a drill together with Belarusian forces, which is massive. They call it Allied Resolve.

And we saw some of the things that they were able to do. And I can tell you, it is certainly a military force that is very capable. They had the aircraft in the air. They were using ground forces, and they also had some of those very dangerous missiles called the Iskander-M missiles, which actually from Belarus would easily be capable of hitting the capital of Ukraine.

Now, you're absolutely right. I was also able to speak to the president of Belarus, Alexander Lukashenko. And I asked him about some of the fears that the U.S. has that an attack on Ukraine could also be launched from Belarusian territory. He basically said, absolutely not. He almost tried to laugh all of that off, but he did say that Belarus is, of course, a strong ally of Russia.

And he says that they're basically a union together. And so, therefore, he would support the Russians no matter which direction that they go in. Of course, one of the reasons, Ana, why the U.S. is concerned is, they have picked up some bridge construction going on in the south of Belarus, and that bridge, a pontoon bridge, which apparently is new, satellite images show that bridge, and that would make it a lot easier for forces trying to go down south to Ukraine to get to that territory.

So, a lot of concern there on the part of the U.S. Again, what we saw today, Ana, was a very capable military force, but both the Russians and the Belarusians continue to insist that all of the Russian forces that are in this country right now will go back to Russia after these drills are complete at the end of the week, Ana.

[13:05:05]

CABRERA: That bridge certainly is curious. What else are they planning to use it for?

Let's head to the White House and CNN's Kaitlan Collins.

Kaitlan, the administration has been exceedingly blunt in its accusations of Russia today. Are we seeing hopes for diplomacy fade here?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we're seeing is they're casting doubt on the idea that Russia is actively seeking diplomacy here.

You have heard Russian officials talk about that. And Secretary Blinken and President Biden have said that is still a welcome path, obviously, that they would like to see them take. But they are casting doubt on the idea that that is actually something Russia's even considering, because you saw President Biden coming out earlier saying that he does believe the attack, the threat of invasion is still high and that an attack could happen in the next several days.

And he says he has no plans to speak with President Putin again, for right now, after speaking to him for about an hour on Saturday, we know, clearly a conversation where the two -- the differences of these two sides remain.

And it's just a very different reality that both sides are putting out there. And the U.S. is trying to be very forceful in laying out what they are seeing on the ground. And that's why you saw Secretary Blinken, those remarks that he made earlier, that was not planned, earlier today. It was a last-minute addition before he headed to Munich.

He went to the national -- the United Nations in New York and gave this speech, forcefully laying out not just that we should be prepared for Russia to try to justify an invasion, but also what an invasion will look like, what a Russian attack would look like.

And he is saying this is something that is planned in advance. You could see an aerial bombing campaign. You could see missiles being launched. You could see communications being jammed, cyberattacks, and also Russians targeting certain groups of Ukrainians, so laying out in pretty good detail of an idea of what they think this could look like, and Secretary Blinken even saying that, yes, that there have some been some doubts about U.S. intelligence in the past.

He said there is no case for that here, given they are actively seeing what's on the ground. We can see the satellite images of the force buildup. And they are being very blunt that they do think this threat is real and that it could happen within days at this point.

CABRERA: Kaitlan Collins, Jim, Fred, thank you all for your reporting.

It is difficult to ignore parallels between the crisis now and Russia's actions exactly eight years ago, to the day almost, when it invaded Crimea. In February of 2014, just days after the Winter Olympics in Sochi, Putin launched the prize military exercises near Ukraine's border.

This was CNN's headline on February 28, that day: "Russian Troop Movements Near Ukraine Raise Concerns, U.S. Officials Say."

And Chuck Hagel, who joins us now, was U.S. defense secretary at that time. And now here we are, eight years later, as the Winter Olympics wind down in Russia positions military forces and artillery near Ukraine's border.

Mr. Secretary, I wonder, is this deja vu? How does the situation compare with the days and moments leading up to Russia's annexation of Crimea?

CHUCK HAGEL, FORMER U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: Well, thanks, Ana.

There are some similarities, obviously. But I think this is far more serious than what we saw in 2014. The magnitude of troop maneuvers, of how long this is dragging out, it's pretty clear what Putin's intent is now, as opposed to what he talked about in 2014.

And that is the sphere of influence that he believes Russia deserves, Ukraine. And 2014 was different. For example, in Crimea, Russian troops ere already there. They had a long-term contract to be there. Crimea is an area where all the residents or 98 percent of the residents are Russian nationals. Eastern Ukraine is a little different.

So there are a lot of differences here. This time, it's far more dangerous, because you are now talking about significant consequences if he invades, certainly using Belarus and coming in from Russia. There will be economic consequences that will be huge. It will affect the world, certainly affect all of Europe, certainly affect the United States, energy production, power grids.

There will be nothing untouched here if he fulfills the intent of what he said he may do, although they're playing the typical game of, no, we have no intention of invading.

CABRERA: Right.

HAGEL: And we just know that's not true.

CABRERA: And so the U.S. has been trying to go toe to toe with this information war of sorts. The U.S. and allies have been very loud and clear warning about a false flag operation.

And they worry now the shelling in the Donbass region we spoke of could be just that, that Russia is trying to manufacture a pretext for an invasion. One, do you agree that that's what's happening here? And, two, does calling it out prevent Russia from acting?

What does years of dealing one-on-one with Russia tell you?

HAGEL: Well, I think calling it out is the correct thing to do.

[13:10:02]

That wouldn't necessarily forestall it from happening, but I think it's the right thing to do. Do I think this is serious, that this is likely a way to start this invasion? Yes, very clearly. And we have been talking about that, the president has, Secretary Blinken, Austin, the last couple of weeks.

I still think it's still uncertain here, because Putin is, I believe, still uncertain as to when and where he wants to go here. But the big thing for me in watching this is that Putin is really all in. If you're playing poker, he's got all his chips on the table here.

And not only would it be a terrible embarrassment for him if he has to pull back and say, no, these were just exercises, when the rest of the world would know that's probably not true, so he's going to have to get something, and either that he, or he can't say face.

CABRERA: Yes.

HAGEL: And that's the thing that I look at, that because he is so far down the line, so far in, it's hard for me to believe that he would pull back with nothing and for no reason.

CABRERA: So, if you were advising this administration, what could the U.S. and allies give Putin to allow him to save face and not continue to escalate and not invade?

HAGEL: Well, I think, so far, the way the president has handled this and our European leaders has been exactly the right way to do it. We're not going to dictate the fate of an independent nation like

Ukraine, and say, no, Ukraine can never be part of NATO, can never be part of the European Union. That's the people of Ukraine that will decide that, not Putin, not the United States, no other country. And that's the way it should be.

That's the World War II world order that the United States and our allies built. It's a rules-based, law-based world order. And what Putin is doing, he's challenging that like never before. We have never seen a challenge to the rules-based order that we have put into effect built after World War II that would -- that was built around common interest.

Never have we seen a challenge like this is being challenged. So we will never give that up. We can't give that up.

Second, there are things that -- and I don't know specifically what they're dealing with and what options that they're talking privately to the Russians about. There are energy issues. You have got Nord Stream 2 in Germany. That...

CABRERA: Right.

HAGEL: If he invades it, that's all over. I mean, he's got a weak economy, an economy based on oil and gas. He would suffer terribly. That's just one consequence on his side of the border. Yes, it'd be tough for the Europeans. But we'd find other sources of energy for them.

So when you start really unraveling this as to where this goes, and consequences, it's going to hurt -- it would hurt Russia terribly.

CABRERA: When you talk about unraveling, where this could go, we have heard that the Biden administration has been doing tabletop exercises to prepare for the different scenarios if Russia invades.

And I spoke with a former intel official who tells me Ukraine has more than a dozen nuclear reactors at four locations across Ukraine, which generate a substantial amount of power for that country. What if Russia were to hit one of those nuclear reactors?

HAGEL: Well, that's the point as well in this scenario.

Everything is so hair-triggered. It's like dealing with nitroglycerine all the time. You have got to be so careful. Something could happen accidentally. An American plane could be shot down by a Russian, a Russian plane shot down by American. I mean, so many things could happen.

And your point is a very serious point, because, when things like this gets started, you can't control them. We have found this out through the recent wars we have been in, back to the war that I was in Vietnam. When war starts, it's unpredictable, damn unpredictable. And it's hard to stop it. Once it starts, hard to stop it.

And I know Putin is smart enough to understand that. And whether he will factor all that in, I don't know.

CABRERA: Well, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much for spending time with us and offering your perspective. And thank you for your service as well.

Secretary Hagel, good to have you here.

HAGEL: Thanks, Ana.

CABRERA: A major upset in Beijing. The Russian skater at the center of a doping scandal that has rocked this Olympics fails to make the podium. It was a stunning moment on the ice. We're on it.

[13:15:02]

Plus, a viral video shows a fight between two teens, but it's the police response that is sparking serious outrage. We will explain.

And a new study shows a subvariant of Omicron is spreading faster. It could cause more severe disease and could even resist some of the weapons we have to fight it. More on this disturbing report just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: A stunning twist in the doping scandal that has rocked the Olympics, emotions extremely raw, as skater Kamila Valieva, who tested positive for a banned substance, fell twice during her final routine.

The 15-year-old phenom was expected to win gold, but she ended up in fourth place. Her Russian teammates took the gold and silver. Japan won the bronze.

[13:20:06]

And with us now is Meagan Duhamel, two-time world champion figure skater and decorated Olympian. She's won gold, silver and bronze medals.

Meagan, first, it's just an honor to have you here, to talk with you.

I think it was safe to say a lot of attention was going to be on the skater who finished fourth. And that was assuming Valieva was in the top three. Instead, it was her who finished fourth. Your reaction?

MEAGAN DUHAMEL, TWO-TIME WORLD CHAMPION FIGURE SKATER: Yes, a little bit of a surprising result in what has really been a circus show at the Olympics in the women's figure skating competition.

I'm happy that the skaters that finished in the top three today did get a medal ceremony. They will get to go home with some hardware and be celebrated for that. But it doesn't stop there.

There's a bigger case and a bigger story that needs to continue to be fought for. CABRERA: Yes, emotions obviously were high when everyone learned the

results, pressure on all these athletes so immense. The drama this morning, it was palpable.

A lot of eyes, attention and scrutiny surrounding the sport you love. How much of an impact will this moment have moving forward?

DUHAMEL: I think that what we have seen kind of play out in the last week or week or so in Beijing is going to leave such a big black mark on our sport, on the sport that I love and the sport that I'm working to cover with the Olympics, and really questioning all my morals and integrity as I'm working to promote this sport, because the sport needs a lot of work.

The world saw a really ugly side to figure skating this last week, and we need change. And we need change now. And we need people to stand up to some higher powers in the sporting world, in the international sporting community.

CABRERA: Right. It's not just about figure skating here, although that's the focus of this case. But it was her age that allowed Valieva to continue competing, since she's just 15.

And this is, again, after they learned of that positive blood doping test. Are you concerned that a new precedent has now been set allowing for a doping loophole as long as an athlete's a minor?

DUHAMEL: When I heard this, I couldn't believe it. I was outraged. And I was shocked.

I didn't know that there would be such a case and such a ruling that would OK a child to dope and still compete and get away with it. Of course, we need to look at the people surrounding the athlete and not at the child, the 15-year-old themselves. It's very unlikely that, at 15 years old, you got your hands on these medications yourself.

So we need to look at and investigate the entire coaching team and the doctor, as well as the Russian Olympic Committee, who has been under scrutiny for systematic state-sponsored doping since 2014. They continue to be allowed to compete at the Olympics without their flag and without their national anthem. But that wasn't punishment enough because they continue to produce positive doping tests.

CABRERA: And it impacts everybody. All this controversy has really robbed some of Valieva's competitors from experiencing true Olympic moments.

I know we have some pictures of you, because you have been there. You know what it's like to be on that medal podium. The USA, Team USA still doesn't know if they will remain silver or if they're going to end up with gold in the team event. What's your message to them?

DUHAMEL: Yes, the team event that happened, it was the first figure skating event that happened at the Beijing Olympics. The final result right now, Russia has won the gold, U.S. has won the silver, Japan has won the bronze. But because of Valieva's positive doping test, they said that they --

the International Olympic Committee and the Organizing Committee of the Beijing Olympics said that there would be no medal ceremonies, basically robbing the skaters from the USA, the skaters from Japan, and the other skaters on the Russian team who right now we have to assume are innocent, as they have provided their clean doping tests, they're robbing them of their Olympic moment, of standing on the podium, of being celebrated with their teammates and by their country.

And this is all because of something somebody else did. So to punish these athletes -- and I know two of those Japanese athletes personally. My husband coaches them. They're going to come home, and all I want to do is celebrate and see that bronze medal, and they want to show it off and be proud of it. And they won't have it. They won't be able to do it.

They are going to receive their Olympic medal opening up a FedEx box. And that is so wrong. The decisions that were made in this case are so terribly wrong. And I will continue to put a stance demanding that, before those skaters leave Beijing, they get a medal ceremony and they have a medal to come home with.

CABRERA: They deserve that moment. That's for sure.

Meagan Duhamel, thank you very much for here -- being with us.

Outrage over how police handled a fight between a black teen and a white teen in New Jersey. It's on video, and now those officers' actions are under investigation.

[13:25:01]

We will break it down.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: A viral video showing police breaking up a fight between two teens at a New Jersey mall is sparking a lot of outrage today and raising questions about whether