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President Biden Says He's Now Convinced Putin Has Decided To Invade Ukraine; Ukraine's President Calls For Diplomatic Solution To Crisis; Vice President Harris Insists "Swift And Severe" Sanctions If Russia Invades Ukraine; Judge Rules January 6th Lawsuits Against Trump Can Move Forward; Closing Arguments Begin Monday In Federal Hate Crimes Trial Of Ahmaud Arbery's Killers; Helicopter Crashes Into Ocean Near Miami Beach Shore, Two People Taken To Hospital. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired February 19, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:27]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN HOST: You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Phil Mattingly in for Jim Acosta. And we begin with the crisis in Ukraine as world leaders rush to prevent war.

The message from the U.S. it's crystal clear that a global security conference in Munich today, Vice President Kamala Harris warning if Russia invades Ukraine, the consequences will be, quote, "swift, severe, and united."

It's been an escalation over just the past 24 hours with President Biden saying he's now convinced President Vladimir Putin has decided to invade. But he and other top U.S. officials insist even in this 11th hour, diplomacy is still possible.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LLOYD AUSTIN, DEFENSE SECRETARY: I believe that we should continue to try up until the very last minute until it's no longer possible, but I think -- I think if you look at the stance that he is in today, it's apparent that he has made a decision and that there -- they're moving into the right positions to be able to conduct an attack.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Now the Kremlin as it has for months is categorically denying Russia is planning an attack. But it has Ukraine surrounded. The latest estimate from U.S. officials is that Russia has likely amassed up to 190,000 personnel in and around Ukraine including in the breakaway regions in the eastern part of the country.

Now in an interview with CNN's Christiane Amanpour earlier this morning, Ukraine's President Zelensky says he's preparing for any developments but is urging his nation to remain calm.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRES. VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY, UKRAINE (through translator): We do not think that we need to panic. We think these risks are indeed very high because we have more troops, 150,000 troops on our borders. Yes, indeed, that's a big risk. But a very big risk if we respond, if we do respond to one provocation or the other.

And although on the temporary occupied territories we have a lot of provocations, and we see them, we see how through the mass media they're disseminating different provocative information, we need to preserve our stability, we need to keep calm and be adults. In this time, Ukraine's army is more adult than others.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: We have our team of reporters all around the world following every moment of these fast-moving developments. CNN's Arlette Saenz is at the White House. Natasha Bertrand is covering that security conference in Munich, Germany. But I want to begin with CNN's Jill Dougherty who's in Moscow.

Jill, I was listening in real time. It's pretty jarring when President Biden says he's now convinced President Putin has decided to invade Ukraine. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin backed that up today saying an attack on Ukraine could come in short order.

In Moscow, what has the response been for the president, President Biden being so overt essentially about what he believes the intensions of Russia actually are at this point?

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: You know, Phil, really, as they've been doing with all the deadlines, et cetera, they're basically laughing it off. In fact, kind of mocking it most of the time. There hasn't been a lot of very strong reaction to President Biden's most recent comments. But you know, in addition to this kind of military standoff, there's really an information war that is raging, and you could kind of think of it as a split screen with three different images.

The most striking was this morning Moscow time that you had President Putin with the president of Belarus, with whom Russia has been holding military exercises, at the Kremlin situation room watching these strategic weapons being tested, the triad of air, land, and sea, and some very sophisticated -- some of the most modern weapons that Russia has.

Then the second image would be President Zelensky of the Ukraine at the Munich Security Conference. And it's really a show of unity. That was one of the purposes of that. And then he was also saying if you are talking about sanctions, they should be publicized now. Later if there is an attack would be too late.

And then I'd say the final image would be images from the ground in that breakaway region Donbas in the eastern part of Ukraine. And you know, Russia driving the narrative that Russia has no plans to attack, it's Ukraine that is planning to attack the Donbas region. Something that Ukraine denies.

So, you know, all together, I keep thinking about what President Zelensky said that you can't have stability in a country if you're constantly being told that you're going to have -- you know, that you're about to be invaded or attacked, and that predicament really could be something that Vladimir Putin is trying to create.

[15:05:13]

MATTINGLY: Yes. There are so many levels right now, not a very subtle message this morning with President Putin's weapons demonstration.

I want to swing over to CNN's Natasha Bertrand in Munich, Germany, where the security conference is happening.

Natasha, extraordinarily high stakes. Always an important conference. But what are you hearing there on the ground?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so a lot of diplomatic maneuvering here over the course of the weekend. Obviously Vice President Kamala Harris was the very public-facing kind of messenger when it comes to getting Russia to deescalate, reinforcing the U.S. commitment to NATO and European allies.

Whereas Secretary of State Antony Blinken was doing a lot of the behind-the-scenes diplomatic maneuvering, meeting with his foreign minister counterparts as Kamala Harris met with world leaders like Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky today and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz as well today.

Now what we're hearing is that there seems to be some kind of a rift that we have --it's been apparent over the last several weeks and months between the Ukrainians and the U.S. over how to address the situation with Russia. The Ukrainians believe that sanctions should be imposed now, that if the U.S. is warning that a war is imminent, that if it is coming and they know that Vladimir Putin has made this decision to invade, then why not impose sanctions now?

That was the message that Zelensky had today at the forum, and he actually reiterated in that meeting with Kamala Harris earlier today. We were in the room when he actually mentioned that straight to her, saying we appreciate that the United States understands that sanctions imposed on Russia right now could actually lead to the resolution of this peacefully. So hinting there at the Ukrainians kind of dissatisfaction with how the West has handled the issue of sanctions.

He also has wanted to know what the timeline is for the Ukrainians to actually join NATO. That NATO membership is written into Ukraine's constitution, it is not something that they're willing to drop even in the face of Russia's aggression. And then lastly, he does not like how the West has been messaging this. And he made that very clear in his remarks today saying that essentially the U.S. and the West warning every day virtually that a war is imminent has been devastating to Ukraine's economy and overall morale. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENSKY (through translator): We cannot say on the daily basis that war will happen tomorrow. What kind of state is it going to be, what kind of economy is it going to be, how can you live in the state when on the daily basis you're being told that tomorrow the war will happen, tomorrow the advance will happen?

It means crushing national currency, money being taken out, business flying out -- can you live in that kind of country? Can you have a stability in that kind of country? No.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BERTRAND: So the U.S. obviously would counter that they are putting all of this out there in order to deter Putin from taking any action, laying it all out for the world to see so that he will not actually make a move. The Ukrainians say that they are prepared for virtually any scenario.

MATTINGLY: Yes, as you know very well, Natasha, the underlying tension between the U.S. and Ukrainians throughout the last several months has been an interesting subplot to everything.

Arlette, I want to swing over to you. You're at the White House, the president stayed in town this weekend. He's at the White House today. The Vice President Kamala Harris, as Natasha mentioned, is at the security conference in Munich. What has her message been on the public stage?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Phil, Vice President Kamala Harris' goal in this trip is to really rally allies to try to present that united front as U.S. officials continue to warn that Russia could invade Ukraine in the coming days. You heard Vice President Harris speaking, giving remarks at the Munich security conference, where she stated that these are the most dire circumstances that that group has met under since the Cold War.

And Harris also issued a blunt and stern warning about the consequences that Russia would face, including as she met with Ukrainian President Zelensky. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If Russia further invades your country, as I mentioned earlier today, we will impose swift and severe economic sanctions. If Russia takes aggressive action against Ukraine, we are prepared to implement. And to do that work in a unified way with or allies around the world.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: So those comments coming in a face-to-face meeting with Zelensky as Harris tried to offer assurances that the United States stands ready to aid in the event of an invasion. Of course, there are some differences when it comes to the timing of sanctions. As you heard Natasha outlines, Zelensky really wanting to see sanctions, a list of sanctions before an invasion. The U.S. in the past has defended waiting to implement sanctions, saying that they need to act as a deterrence in the circumstance.

Now this all comes as President Biden had that blunt assessment yesterday that he has -- is now convinced that Putin has decided to move forward.

[15:10:08]

It's notable that Biden did not make those comments in his opening prepared remarks. As you know well, he didn't say that until he was questioned by reporters. And sources have told us that this all is based on intelligence or part of it is based on intelligence assessments that the Russian troops around the border of Ukraine, that half of those troops are now in a position to potentially attack. All of this are things that the administration is closely watching as that threat of an invasion still looms.

MATTINGLY: Yes. If nothing else, the White House being so out front about what they know, when they know it, almost in real time, has been a very different approach than we've seen in the past.

Arlette Saenz at the White House, Natasha in Munich, thanks so much, guys. Our correspondent around the world, as always, covering this story every step of the way.

I want to dive into this a little bit more with retired Army General Wesley Clark. He's the former NATO Supreme Allied commander. He's also a CNN military analyst.

General, again, I've said before, I'll say it again, it was a double take, slash, wait, what did he say moment when President Biden yesterday, when answering questions from reporters, said he's now convinced that President Putin has decided to invade Ukraine.

Give us your assessment. You know this area of the world better than most. What do you think is going to happen next in these very tense next couple of days?

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET), FORMER NATO SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER: Well, of course what we hope is that President Putin is going to change his mind and say, no, don't go -- don't actually go across the line, but we don't know that. Based on all of the indicators we see, it seems that he has made a decision to attack, the troops are moving into position, as Secretary Austin said. The president said he's convinced, he's seeing intelligence we don't have.

I'm hearing rumors from the region that certain cities in Russia are declaring an emergency alert and maybe, you know, Putin is getting ready to call up reservists or something like this. I mean, there doesn't seem to be, from any of the indicators both of Moscow propaganda and disinformation, and what we're hearing about troop movements on the ground, there doesn't seem to be any contrary indicator that would make you believe that President Putin has reconsidered and called it off.

He could still do it, but as of now, it's a question of timing. It looks like it's sort of inevitable at this point. And it looks like it would be big because it just stands to reason if he's going to go in he wants to get it over with. So I think it's a dangerous moment. It's an inflection point in post-World War II European history. MATTINGLY: The stakes are extraordinary, and I think this is a very

important moment for history. Can you tell me, what do you think of the administration's very clear, very calculated decision to really kind of try and front run President Putin every single step of the way over the course of the last couple of weeks? The rationale for doing that and why they've decided to do it here.

CLARK: I think the administration has handled this brilliantly up to now. And they've done it by releasing information, by winning the so- called information war, that is we're not letting Russia define the framing of this crisis. We're not letting Russia get away with saying, oh, NATO's about to attack us, NATO's such a threatening organization. Instead, the United States is releasing information it has bit by bit to show that actually this is a crisis manufactured by Mr. Putin, designed to not only deal with Ukraine but to deal with the larger issues of Russia's role in Europe and NATO.

And so this is the important first phase of this. We don't know if there'll be a second phase or not, but we want to be sure that Russia can't succeed in framing whatever it does as a -- as a legitimate defensive response to a threat. There's no threat to Russia. This is totally illegal what Russia is doing. And if it goes across the line, in fact already Vladimir Putin is behaving as a war criminal.

I certainly hope the United States and other nations in the world will see it that way and indict him for that.

MATTINGLY: You know, part of the rationale officials have told me for why they've been so up front is they want to try and change Putin's dynamic, right. He may be planning something, then they call it out, and he feels like he has to shift to some degree.

Do you feel like there is still an off-ramp right now, and when you look at the dynamics, particularly some of the people I think that it has been made clear President Putin is listening to in his inner circle, which are more hawkish than perhaps others, do you see any possible way that this doesn't end up in what President Biden has predicted is going to happen?

CLARK: I think there's an easy off-ramp for President Putin. He was with President Lukashenko today, what he had to say is exercise completed, we're done. Thank you very much. I'm sorry it caused such confusion in the world. We really appreciate all our foreign leaders who've come to Moscow to visit us, and we'll get back to you on some of the details. I hope we can have a better relationship in the future. But I'm convinced he could say that Russia is now more secure because we've gone through these exercises.

[15:15:04]

That's all he has to say. He's in total control. We don't have to provide him any concessions to give him an off-ramp. He provokes the crisis, it's on him, and he is totally in charge in Russia. So we don't -- shouldn't feel sorry for him. Shouldn't feel like there's a need to give him an excuse. He has the excuse. He knows he's going to face some very, very, very severe consequences if he goes forward with this, including getting Russia branded as a rogue state and him possibly as a war criminal. He needs to back off.

MATTINGLY: Yes. There are very real repercussions, no question about it.

General Wesley Clark, thanks so much for your expertise, sir. Really appreciate it.

CLARK: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Coming up next, Donald Trump's legal woes, they are stacking up. The latest, a federal judge saying the former president could conceivably be culpable for inciting the January 6th Capitol attack. That as the former vice president seems to defend the Republican National Committee, calling January 6th, quote, :legitimate political discourse."

We'll discuss all that coming up next. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:20:14]

MATTINGLY: There's been no shortage of news this week, but you may have missed that this was a week of legal setbacks for former President Donald Trump. A week that was capped off on Friday when a judge ruled that civil lawsuits seeking to hold the former president accountable for the Capitol riot can move forward.

The federal judge said that Trump's January 6th rally speech can be reasonable -- reasonably be viewed as a call for collective action. And that Trump's repeated use of the word "we" in his statements to his supporters before the riot is, quote, "the essence of a civil conspiracy." That means three lawsuits, two filed by Democratic House members, and a third by Capitol police officers, can keep moving forward.

I want to discuss this and much more with White House correspondent and Washington bureau chief for "TheGrio," April Ryan, and CNN political commentator Ana Navarro.

Ana, I want to start with you. The judge here calling it, quote, "the essence of a civil conspiracy." You put that in contrast with the RNC calling it legitimate political discourse. Do rulings like this solidify the former president's support? Do they cause people to think twice? What's your sense of things?

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, for the first time in -- probably since Trump has been president I've seen more of a rift and more of a break within the Republican Party which I find to be very hopeful. Right? You have seen some of the usual suspects, people like Mitt Romney, like Liz Cheney, being very critical of the RNC for calling a terrorist attack, a domestic terrorist attack, legitimate political discourse.

But you're also seeing now people like Mike Pence who had basically been polishing Trump's apple for four years. People like Mitch McConnell who don't much take on Donald Trump usually. People like Lindsey Graham pushing back on this idea that January 6th was legitimate political discourse and that Donald Trump is the emperor of the Republican Party. You are seeing more of an independence from certain part of the Republican Party.

I was -- I was somewhat warily optimistic when I saw a CNN poll last week saying that 50 percent of the Republicans wanted Trump to be the nominee in 2024. I know that sounds ridiculous, but I mean, I can't believe those 50 percent but it's a lot better than 90 percent which is what it used to be.

MATTINGLY: Apple, good catch on that one. April, also this week, a judge said that the former president can be deposed by the New York attorney general, and we learned there were classified materials among the 15 boxes of documents Trump took to Mar-a-Lago. The Justice Department is now involved.

Now when Trump was president, there was a sense -- I think a reality to some-degree that he was legally untouchable. Is that shield starting to crack to some degree?

APRIL RYAN, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT AND WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, THEGRIO: That shield has cracked. It's almost cracked apart. At the end of the day, this president, Joe Biden, is viewing what's happening to Donald John Trump -- he came into office to say, look, we've got to stop this breaking of the rule of law, and Donald John Trump is now watching his brand, his just -- what do you call it, disregard for government fall apart.

He's watching himself have to tell what he's done, what he didn't do, what he planned to do. He has to tell the nation and also Letitia James what is going on, what he has done. And at the end of the day, January 6th and the January 6th Select Committee has moved the ball forward to expose a lot of what was swallowed or what was flushed down the toilet at the very least.

So Donald John Trump is now having to answer. He is not the emperor in chief, he is having to answer to what he has done to break the rule of law and to change how politics is being worked in this nation.

MATTINGLY: Yes. Deposition is very different than a Twitter account.

RYAN: Yes.

MATTINGLY: This week, Republican House leadership endorsed Congresswoman Liz Cheney's Trump-backed challenger. Here was Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy's announcement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): Wyoming deserves to have a representative who will deliver the accountability against this Biden administration. Not a representative that they have today that works closer with Nancy Pelosi going after Republicans instead of stopping these radical Democrats for what they're doing to this country. (END OF VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: And House Republican Conference chair Elise Stefanik said in a statement, quote, "Liz Cheney abandoned her constituents to become a far-left Pelosi puppet. Liz sadly belongs in an MSNBC or CNN news chair, not in Congress representing Wyoming."

Ana, you were just talking about how it felt like some in the party might be starting to shift away from the former president.

[15:25:04]

That's not the case in the House Republican Conference. What's your reaction to this leadership attempt to oust an incumbent, something leadership never does in the lead up to a midterm election?

NAVARRO: You know, Phil, just when I think that I can't be more disgusted by Republican leadership, that I can't be more disappointed, more grossed out and want to puke at the idea of Kevin McCarthy, he proves me wrong because there are no depths to which this man will not sink in order to retain his post as leader of the House and hopefully for him, he thinks, speaker of the House.

But this is a man who was held hostage by some of the right-wing kooks in the party, in his conference and also held hostage by his blind ambition. What kind of moral compass do you lack, what kind of spine do you lack, what kind of ethical grounding do you not have to turn that way on a former colleague who was part of your top -- who was one of the three leaders of the Republicans in Congress?

It's disgusting. It's betrayal. It's treasonous. It's just -- you know, some of the worst of human behavior in order to retain a seat. So he's completely lost any modicum of dignity, of independence, of leadership, of morality, of anything, of anything. The only thing this guy has right now going for him is the head of good hair because everything else is just absolutely grotesque.

MATTINGLY: He does have good hair. I would note, though, there's all personality, no actual policy in any of those announcements. Liz Cheney is very conservative.

Lastly, Tucker Carlson --

NAVARRO: Liz Cheney is much more conservative than Elise Stefanik.

MATTINGLY: That's actually true based on the record.

NAVARRO: Go look at the ratings. Go look at the rankings.

MATTINGLY: No. It's very true based on the record.

NAVARRO: Of all of the conservative organizations. I mean --

MATTINGLY: No, it's very true --

NAVARRO: There's no doubt. MATTINGLY: Yes. Now, lastly, April, I want to talk something Tucker

Carlson said. He made some suggestive comments about Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX HOST: I'm alone today, Ocasio-Cortez says pointedly at the camera. Is it just us or does that sound like an invitation to a booty call? Maybe one step from what are you wearing?

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Right. The congresswoman quickly responded on Twitter, quote, "You're a creep, bro. If you're this easy with sexual harassment on air, how are you treating your staff?"

April, I guess the question I always have in these moments is, is engaging playing into the hands here or is it right, this is not only being sexist but it needs to be pushed back upon?

RYAN: You know, AOC is absolutely right. But at the end of the day if you ignore these people, eventually they will die -- I mean, not die, but their words will die on the vine. It's gotten to the point where it's too much. They talk too much, they're incendiary. They say things that create people to come after you. And he has gone after women of color who he does not agree with and who say things that will incite actions against them.

And as you were talking, Phil, about January 6th and the words and Donald Trump and McCarthy, don't think that Tucker Carlson does not have a hand in helping to incite people, as well. We've seen that words matter. We've seen conversations that are negative against people will move mountains on the wrong way to the negative. And just like Ana just said about people polishing Donald John Trump's apple, that's what Tucker Carlson is doing.

Polishing that Trump apple to make that group say, OK, we're fighting, we're in the fight still, even though they got us for January 6th, we're still in the fight. It's not right.

MATTINGLY: I guess --

RYAN: It's got to die on the vine.

MATTINGLY: Yes. I guess, April, it's a great point, because, Ana, I think of it -- I'm too busy to care what people are posting on Instagram. I've got kids, I've got a job, I've got a life. And yet this ends up on primetime television. What was your sense of things when you saw this?

RYAN: And we work at the White House.

NAVARRO: Actually I hadn't heard -- fortunately I hadn't heard it until you just brought it up right now because like you, I'm a little busy. I think it's just more of this creepy fixation by some on the right with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. It is frankly disturbing. Leave her the hell alone. Attack her on policy all you want, that's very legitimate. But leave her as a woman, leave her as a woman of color, leave her the hell alone, and go look in the mirror about your own problems.

MATTINGLY: Yes. Just as April noted, we're in the White House every day.

(CROSSTALK)

NAVARRO: What a weird fetish.

MATTINGLY: Go ahead, April.

[15:30:00]

RYAN: It's Maxine Waters. It's Ayanna Presley. It's so many different people. They continue to go after women of color who they believe are lesser than they are and that they are able to attack them and get away with it.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN HOST: So much going on in the world and there's definitely other things to be talking about.

April Ryan and Ana Navarro, as always, love having you guys on. Thank you so much.

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thank you.

RYAN: Thanks.

MATTINGLY: All right. Coming up, closing arguments begin Monday in the federal hate crimes trial of the three men convicted of murdering Ahmaud Arbery. What the witnesses testified about how the three men treated black people. That's next.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: A federal grand jury will hear closing arguments Monday in the hate crimes trial against Ahmaud Arbery's killers.

[15:35:02]

Travis McMichael, his father, Gregory McMichael, and their neighbor, William Bryan, did not testify in their own defense.

This week, the prosecution called 20 witnesses to the stand before resting their case. The defense only called one.

The men were convicted last year of killing Arbery as he jogged through their south Georgia neighborhood.

A jury will have to decide whether to -- whether they killed him because he was black. That's what they're weighing currently.

CNN's Nadia Romero is following the story from Atlanta, Georgia.

Nadia, what did we learn from the testimony this week?

NADIA ROMERO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Phil, throughout the testimony, over four days, the prosecution brought forth 20 witnesses. So testimony after testimony of people who had one-on-one conversations with the defendants.

One woman says that Travis McMichael was her supervisor when they were both in the Coast Guard, and that he would often use racial slurs, making fun of her because she had dated a black man in her past.

And that she left the courtroom in tears, and she fell into the arms of Marcus Arbery, Ahmaud Arbery's father.

That's what we saw over and over again. These really uncomfortable moments of the McMichaels using racial slurs very freely and very loosely in conversation, in text messages, and social media posts.

That was laid out before the jury as the prosecution laid out their case.

Now Ahmaud Arbery's mother says it's very clear the evidence is all there. She says there's no doubt in her mind.

And she doesn't believe that anyone else could dispute that her son was targeted and killed simply because he was black.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WANDA COOPER JONES, MOTHER OF AHMAUD ARBERY: They killed Ahmaud simply because Ahmaud was black. What we heard these last two days, these guys were racists.

And these charges, they needed to be tried. The world needed to know what type of people the McMichaels really were.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMERO: So the defendants, as Phil mentioned, did not go on to the stand to testify in this trial. So we only had one witness for the defense.

But the lawyers said in their opening statements that, basically, yes, their clients have said terrible things in the past. They've used racial slurs. They're not angels.

But they did not attack Ahmaud Arbery and kill him because he was black, but it was self-defense. They were trying to do a citizens' arrest and ended up killing him in self-defense.

Monday morning, Phil, is when we'll have those closing arguments -- Phil?

MATTINGLY: Yes, another big week ahead after a visceral week of testimony.

Nadia Romero, great reporting as always. Thank you so much.

Coming up, breaking news. Two people have been taken to the hospital after a helicopter crashed into an ocean off Miami Beach. You can see it right there. Extraordinary video. More on this coming up next.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:42:32]

MATTINGLY: We have breaking news just into CNN. Some truly remarkable, dramatic video. A helicopter crashing into the ocean just feet away from people. This is off the shore of Miami Beach.

Police say two people were taken to the hospital. Three were onboard.

I want to bring in CNN transportation analyst, Mary Schiavo. She joins me now. She's also the former inspector general for the Department of Transportation.

Mary, incredible video. For those of us who don't understand the dynamics or technology that may be at play, does anything stand out to you just from what you're seeing right now?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN TRANSPORTATION ANALYST: Absolutely. You know, helicopters -- everybody wants a helicopter because they go up and down.

But this one was traveling in a downward trajectory, much like a plane. And that gives us a clue that it appears they were losing power in the engine and were doing what's called auto rotation to the ground.

When a helicopter engine quits, it doesn't necessarily just fall from the sky.

So there were two important things at work here.

One, the pilot was trained and knew how to do it.

And, two, was able to maintain some control of that aircraft because it does appear that -- you know, once you lose your engines, you have nowhere to go but, hopefully, a controlled trajectory down.

It does appear that the copter was able to steer away from the beach- goers, the people on the beach.

So two important points that, you know, the pilot was able to maintain some semblance of control and get it down without an upset event. In other words, they were upright when they went into the water.

MATTINGLY: Extraordinarily thankful and lucky they avoided beach- goers. At least to this moment, no deaths reported. In a case like this, does the water help to some degree? Do you

believe the pilot may have been -- I think, might have been aiming for the water here instead of the land if he was of in some semblance of control?

SCHIAVO: Yes, pilots often aim for the water for, you know, more than one reason.

It doesn't usually provide much of a soft landing. It can help. It depends on the altitude from which you have descended.

If you're literally falling from a high altitude and hitting water, it's like hitting cement.

But here because they had some amount of -- maintained some level of control, yes, the water probably helped.

But in so many accidents, pilots head toward the water to save the lives of people on the ground.

MATTINGLY: Yes. We have also just learned that the FAA and the National Transportation Safety Board will be investigating.

Walk us through what an investigation would look like in an accident like this.

[15:45:04]

SCHIAVO: Well, first and foremost, they're going to grab all of the records -- interview people, first and foremost, eyewitnesses, ear witnesses.

In this case, since the occupant of the helicopter survived, they will be able to interview them.

Surprisingly, they go right to the hospital. The NTSB literally will -- a team will be headed to the hospital to interview the occupants and presumably the pilot and a passenger.

And they do take a statement from them right away, from the beach- goers, et cetera.

The second thing that's really important is they grab all the logbooks and maintenance records. Logbooks of the pilot, logbooks of the aircraft, has a logbook, too, logbooks of any recent maintenance, dispatch.

If this helicopter is part of a larger operation, they're going to be talking to dispatch as to what the helicopter had been doing all day.

If it's a privately owned helicopter, obviously, they will go to the maintenance facility that works on the helicopter.

But interviews, eyewitness, ear witness interviews, and grabbing all the records are the first two priorities.

Then of course, the helicopter itself. They cordon off the area. By law, the NTSB has primary jurisdiction.

Although, state and local authorities are very important, the sheriff's office, for example, the Coast Guard. They'll be hugely important. They're secure the aircraft.

Then the NTSB has the rights to do whatever it needs to do to investigate that aircraft.

They will -- they can take the helicopter apart if it's still intact. They can look at all the components. They can ask the manufacturer, for example, to help.

But right now, it's a big effort to gather all the evidence, interviews, and logbooks, and the aircraft itself.

MATTINGLY: And can I just ask -- I keep looking down, looking at the video on our screen. And it's -- I'm blown away that obviously they avoided the shore. But there's people right in the water at this point in time.

Is it pure luck in this case that the blades and other portion of the helicopter didn't fly off and hit something or someone? Or is it something about the design or landing angle the pilot might be going for in this case to prevent something like that?

SCHIAVO: Well, and so many factors - here, obviously they still had the blades functional.

And the way that they hit the water, yes, had they been at an angle, the water could have easily taken off a blade or caused the aircraft itself to come apart.

But it does appear that they were able to get it down without the blades coming off.

Now, you know, blades come off for a lot of reasons. But you can see in the video they were still intact.

But you know, I've worked accidents where planes have tried to aim for the water or the beach where the result was not so fortunate. There were deaths on the beach, deaths in the water, and, you know, losses in the aircraft.

So, yes, I think without a doubt the -- the pilot and the occupant had some bit of luck with them.

But just watching the video -- and there's so much to learn beyond that. But just seeing the video, it does look like the pilot had maintained some control and was trying to do an auto rotation land.

So fortunately, had some measure of control still over the aircraft, where in many cases pilots don't.

MATTINGLY: And to that point, there's so much obviously we don't know. We know very little other than the video itself.

How experienced would a pilot have to be to pull off kind of a maneuver like that without it turning deadly?

SCHIAVO: It's not necessarily just experience level. It's training. What's really important is how you've been trained, where you got your training, if you've really done it, really been through the training.

So I would say to, one, have the presence of mind and training to do this is first and foremost. And you're supposed to get this training in your helicopter training.

But in an emergency, it really depends on what you know to fall back on. And the NTSB emphasizes, time and time again, that training for emergency situations is what's going to make the difference if you can still control the aircraft.

But I would say that the person had the necessary training, knew how to use the training.

And, no, in a career, you don't have many opportunities to practice this. You hope you don't anyway. Because it's an emergency situation where your aircraft has a very serious problem.

I mean, you literally have the risk of losing the plane and the lives of the people on board, the helicopter, and the lives of the people on board.

So in an emergency situation, it goes back to training because you don't get to practice emergencies very much, thank heavens.

MATTINGLY: Yes. No, absolutely, hope for the best, be prepared for the worst.

We'll keep you updated as we learn more about this.

Mary Schiavo, extraordinary expertise. Thank you so much for taking the time.

SCHIAVO: Thank you.

[15:49:45]

MATTINGLY: All right, we'll be right back.

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MATTINGLY: This Presidents Day weekend, CNN is premiering a new original series focused on the life and presidency of Lyndon Baines Johnson.

He passed major legislation, like the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act. But his decision to escalate the war in Vietnam overshadowed his entire legacy.

See how his presidency was as complicated as the times he served when "LBJ: TRIUMPH AND TRAGEDY" premieres tomorrow at 9:00 p.m.

I absolutely cannot wait to watch this. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: LBJ was intensely aware that he came into the office under the cloak of tragedy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It drove him to try to do things no one else had ever achieved.

[15:55:01]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said to his aides, "What the hell is a presidency for? If you're not going to do something bold, why be here?"

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think Lyndon Johnson would be seen today as one of our greatest presidents because of all that he did. But he made one bad mistake.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Vietnam really pulled him apart. He couldn't make a win out of it, no matter how hard he tried.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: LBJ said, I wish they knew that I want peace as much they do.

LYNDON B. JOHNSON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's important to reflect and look back and see what has been done because there's no better way to judge the future than by the past.

ANNOUNCER: "LBJ, TRIUMPH AND TRAGEDY," premiers tomorrow night at 9:00 on CNN.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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