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Biden Agrees in Principle to Summit With Putin; Biden Has Started Conducting Interviews for Supreme Court Vacancy; Now, Closing Arguments in Hate Crimes Trial of Arbery's Killers. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired February 21, 2022 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: A very good Monday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto reporting from Lviv, Ukraine.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Bianna Golodryga in New York.

President Biden has agreed in principle to a summit with Vladimir Putin. It's part of the United States' latest attempt to convince the Russian president not to invade Ukraine. But the big question is, is Putin on board?

SCIUTTO: Here's a sign. This morning, a senior U.S. official tells me that despite the latest talk of diplomacy, the U.S. sees no slowdown in Russian military preparations and readiness around Ukraine. New satellite images show Russian troops bolstering their activity close to Ukraine's northeastern border, moving closer, in fact. This as National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan warns that invasion would be brutal, in his words.

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JAKE SULLIVAN, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Well, we believe that any military operation of the size, scope and magnitude of what we believe the Russians are planning will be extremely violent. It will cost the lives of Ukrainians and Russians, civilians and military personnel alike.

But we also have intelligence to suggest that there will be an even greater form of brutality because this will not simply be some conventional war between two armies. It will be a war waged by Russia on the Ukrainian people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Let's begin this morning with CNN Chief International Correspondent Clarissa Ward. She is also in Ukraine at the capital of Kyiv.

Clarissa, you heard Jake Sullivan there describing how a major invasion would be brutal. It would be deadly. I have met Ukrainians who say they've got weapons in their home. They're prepared to fight if necessary, alongside the army, and yet at the same time, you and I, we've seen calmness in many of the cities here. How are Ukrainians, particularly in the capital, preparing?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, Jim, it's interesting. The streets of Kyiv today, again, we've been out walking around this afternoon, it is calm, maybe a little bit tense, but absolutely quiet, I would say. And that may be because Ukrainians aren't hearing quite the same things on their news bulletins that we're hearing in the U.S. and in other countries around the world.

Ukraine's leadership is really trying to adapt a more moderate tone on this topic talking about ongoing efforts to, you know, resume some kind of a diplomatic process and also trying to refute Russian accusations of atrocities being carried out by the Ukrainian military, because while it may be quiet here in Kyiv, it is a very different story in the east of Ukraine, Jim.

And those breakaway republic, pro-Russian separatist areas, Russians have said that, today, the Ukrainian military fired a shell that destroyed a Russian border crossing guard post. That's actually inside Russian territory in a place called Rostov, the Ukrainians categorically denying this. The Russian military also said that they had been engaged in clashes with five Ukrainian saboteurs who tried to cross the border. There was some kind of a clash. All five of them, they said, were killed. They also said Ukrainian military vehicles came in to try to rescue these so-called saboteurs.

And we saw a really fiery response from Ukraine's foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba, saying there was no attack on Luhansk, there was no attack on Donetsk. Those are those breakaway republics. And then finishing it with, I demand the Russian Federation stop the fake factory. But this does very much fall in line with what we've been, you know, led to believe how this would play out with these so-called false flag operations potentially laying the groundwork for something even more concerning, Jim.

SCIUTTO: And CNN teams have looked into some of these videos and seeing evidence that they were manufactured, not filmed on the days they were claimed to be filmed on.

This morning, as you know, the Russian president, he spoke at a national security council meeting in Moscow. He talked about the possibility you and I and others have been watching very closely, this idea of somehow recognizing those breakaway regions, frankly, has been destabilizing for nearly a decade, as independent. What did he say and is that considered a genuine possibility?

WARD: Well, for a long time, this was thought to be a sort of very distant possibility and not something that President Putin would favor because the so-called Minsk agreements, the shaky ceasefire agreements that have been implemented here with limited effectiveness, have been seen traditionally as favoring Russia, as being in Moscow's favor.

[10:05:04] And so it was thought that he would try to avoid recognizing Donetsk and Luhansk as independent republics.

But by staging this elaborate meeting of his national security council today on live television, going around the room, asking the head of the FSB, Russian Security Services and various other personnel what their opinions are, as he appears to mull this over, he is clearly kind of dangling this possibility of recognition ahead of that meeting that is scheduled to take place on Thursday between Secretary of State Tony Blinken and his Russian counterpart, Sergey Lavrov, the idea of being potentially this gives them more leverage at the negotiating table, just one more lever that they can pull on, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes, Putin certainly fond of that highly public televised event like we were seeing today. Clarissa Ward, thanks very much.

Listen to this story. The U.S. has warned the U.N. human rights commissioner that Russia has, as part of its plans, to invade this country, identify certain Ukrainians, such as dissidents, political leaders, to be killed or sent to camps if it further invades and occupies country. The Kremlin calls that, quote, absolute fiction.

CNN National Security Correspondent Kylie Atwood, she joins us now, she's been speaking to people at the State Department.

Kylie, this is an element of the Russian invasion plan that U.S. officials have been describing for some weeks now, and that's the political side, attempts to take over institutions here if they were to invade. Well, what did this letter say?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim. I mean, this is an extremely concerning letter based on what the United States says is new and credible information that they have about the Russians creating a list of Ukrainians that they would kill or put into camps after a military occupation of Ukraine.

As you said, this indicates that this is more than just a military invasion and occupation. The Russians are planning for what comes thereafter. And they have these plans in place for these human rights abuses. The United States sharing this information with the United Nations and flagging it as highly concerning, saying that the Russians would go after people, such as Ukrainian dissidents, or Russian dissidents, or journalists in the country or people who are in certain vulnerable populations. That is, people who are of a religious minority or the LGBTQI population.

And, of course, all of this as the United States, the Biden administration, is still saying that it is open to diplomacy with Russia, of course, that until the Russian invasion, until they actually cross over the border with a full-fledged invasion into Ukraine.

But, of course, there are questions about just how serious the Russians are. And yesterday, President Macron of France spoke on the phone with President Putin two times. And after that phone call, we've heard from President Putin that he asked President Macron what has changed in the U.S. position, because Macron was proposing this idea of a summit between President Putin and President Biden, and he was asking, what has changed in the American position? President Macron couldn't answer that question.

And there are still concerns that all Russia wants right here is really the invasion because what they keep coming back to is they want changes to NATO's aggression and expansion and the United States says NATO's open door policy is off the table here.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And, by the way, those countries that joined NATO, they asked to join NATO, right, choice of sovereign nations. That's the NATO position. Kylie Atwood at the State Department, thanks very much.

Joining us now to discuss is retired U.S. Army Brigadier General Peter Zwack. He is a Global Fellow at the Wilson Center. He is also just publishing a memoir about his time in Russia in the '90s as a young Army captain. It's called Swimming the Volga. Good morning, good to have you on, General Zwack.

And I just want to ask you, because Russia has shown no movement in its position, one of its demands being Ukraine and, frankly, other nations, no other nations could ever join NATO ever again, a non- starter for the U.S., but this is also a Russian president who wants to gain back former Soviet republics under his sway and, frankly, has been public about saying he doesn't believe Ukraine is a country or a people, that it's really Russian. I mean, he's the living definition of revanchism. Do you believe there's a path for negotiation? How does the U.S. and NATO, how do they propose to negotiate with Putin over this?

BRIG. GEN. PETER ZWACK, U.S ARMY (RET.): Good morning and thank you for these questions. There is a path. There has to be a path. And NATO, the United States, and, if you will, the like-minded world, the neutrals, have to stay on this line.

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The military aspect, he's got it. I think that's his trump, trump card. I think he's manifesting a coercive cold-blooded, really, 1930- ish type of policy here that is more Stalinist or early Soviet era, and it needs to be faced down. But the diplomatic lane is critical.

In hearing Clarissa's -- the commentary earlier, yes, I'm concerned about the Donbas, Eastern Ukraine, option with the declaration today to the security council of Putin about bringing in, if you will, the two states, if you will -- not states, provinces, Luhansk and Donetsk.

Remember, this sort of thing happened in 2008 after the conflict with Georgia, and they brought, then south Snezhnaya and Kazit (ph) were brought in. This is a bite, if you will, Russia militarily could manage. It could do a bigger offensive with Kyiv and everything else. But you've reported exhaustively their huge challenges that go with that, including an occupation.

Finally, the precursors are out there. The justifications, the hitting the border posts, the rounding up potentially of people, refugees. It's all in the narrative.

Now, when I was in Moscow in 2014 during the first invasion, we got strains of this narrative but not in this massive way, all of it cloaked under unbelievable disinformation and deception.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, the (INAUDIBLE) like clearly is there if Vladimir Putin chooses to go in. And as we've seen, he has a history of staging false flag incidents, right?

Given all of that and given your experience, I am curious today and rightly so, we are focused on the tension there in Donbas, and that is what Vladimir Putin is talking about as well. How focused should we be to the north of Ukraine and Belarus, where Russia has, you know, staged a de facto occupation of the country? I don't know how else to describe it. Some 30,000 Russian troops are there for joint exercises. They were scheduled to leave yesterday, promised to leave yesterday. Now, they will be there indefinitely. And you've got Russian troops now bordering NATO countries.

ZWACK: Yes, I'm conscious of the time. This is a key aspect because this is all about capability and menace. Ostensibly, the order has been given. So, the commanders are planning, preparing for the last, final time needs to be decided, but three things in the timeline to consider and they busted some of them. One, are the Beijing Olympics, they're over. That was a concern that might have been holding back Putin.

And then, of course, number two, the allied resolve exercise in Belarus with Belarusians and the Russians, 30,000 plus, all kinds of stuff, that's passed. And they've decided to stay on. And then there is another thing that would drive offensive issues in Ukraine. This part is one of the most fought over areas in the 20th century, General Mud. It's called the Rasputitsa, the time of no roads. And then starting in early march, it's going to be quagmire of mud that makes maneuvering large formations out on the countryside hard.

And then, lastly, if they contemplate this from the north and Belarus, they have a potential ugly highly media covered bloody siege battle in Kyiv that will bring all kinds of hell and international.

GOLODRYGA: Likely a crucial week ahead in the road towards diplomacy, hoping that there's still a window left for diplomacy in that region.

Brigadier General Peter Zwack, on a lighter note, I look forward to reading your book. Thank you so much.

Well, new this morning, President Biden has met with at least one possible candidate for the Supreme Court vacancy. We'll get an update on his search, up next.

Plus, closing arguments happening now in the federal hate crimes trial of the three men convicted of murdering Ahmaud Arbery. What will attorneys make as they make their final points?

And Queen Elizabeth tests positive for COVID at 95 years old. We'll talk to a doctor about the concern for her health. That's all straight ahead.

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GOLODRYGA: CNN has learned President Biden has started conducting interviews in his search for a Supreme Court nominee. A source tells us he sat down with at least one candidate late last week, then another White House official says the president remains on track to make his choice by the end of the month.

CNN Supreme Court Reporter Ariane de Vogue joins me now. Ariane, let's not forget it's a shorter month and it ends next week. So, what do we know about what he's thinking?

ARIANE DE VOGUE, CNN SUPREME COURT REPORTER: Right. As you said, this interview process, it's begun, he sat down with at least one of his top contenders here.

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His deadline, we expect it to come sometime the end of this week, maybe next Monday. He set that himself. But I have to say, I've talked to a lot of Democrats outside of government and they're nervous. They want this pick to be announced. They want to secure this seat. They want to start the ball rolling here into these hearings.

Top contenders include Ketanji Brown Jackson, she sits on a powerful federal appeals court here, as well as Leondra Kruger, she is a California Supreme Court justice, and Judge Michelle Childs, she's out of South Carolina, and she's been pushed hard by Representative Clyburn, a close ally of the president.

So, here, we know what the president has been doing. He's been going through binders and binders of information. That includes opinions, maybe briefs that some of these judges or justices have written, public appearances, articles, even social media, because what we know is he does not want any surprises here once the pick has been announced. He wants this person to be able to hit the ground running on the Supreme Court, go toe-to-toe with the conservative majority here, and maybe be able to dial back on their process.

But maybe most importantly, Joe Biden is making a historic pick, the first black woman to sit on the Supreme Court. And this person is going to inspire millions of Americans, particularly young African- American lawyers, females who are aspiring to be lawyers. They're all watching very carefully and we'll see how this plays out over the next week.

GOLODRYGA: Ariane de Vogue, I know you'll be covering it all for us. Thank you.

DE VOGUE: Thanks.

GOLODRYGA: Well, happening right now, closing arguments in the federal hate crimes trial for three white men who chased down and killed Ahmaud Arbery. Wednesday marks two years since Arbery was murdered while jogging through a neighborhood in Brunswick, Georgia. Gregory McMichael, his son, Travis, and their neighbor, William Roddie Bryan, were convicted last year of murder in the state court. This is a separate federal trial.

Joining me now is Criminal Defense Attorney and CNN Legal Analyst Joey Jackson. Joey, always great to see you.

So, we know that hate crimes are difficult to prove in court because they require intent. Given that and given what the prosecution has presented as evidence, and that is vile racist text messages that the three of them had sent, do you think that is sufficient? What do you make of their case?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Bianna, good to be with you, good morning.

I think, as in the prosecution, have presented compelling evidence to the notion of the motivation behind this. Why do I say that? The issue really has been difficult to watch, to listen to, to really evaluate and you really said, in regard to the disparaging remarks.

Now, to be very clear, all three defendants have, in some form or manner, indicated some disparagement towards African-Americans. I get, understand and realize that, in and of itself, it's not enough, whether you harbor racist beliefs, whether you are a racist, that's one issue. The real issue for the prosecution, Bianna, is making the connection, the nexus, really pointing to this being a motivation behind what they did here.

And I think the prosecutors were very successful and we'll see what the jury says about that with regard to making that connection and suggesting that had Ahmaud Arbery not been African-American, this would have not occurred.

And so all the information that was put out before the jury with respect with the thoughts, the views, the beliefs and opinions of these as to African-Americans, I think, they really established that this formed the basis of them chasing, hunting him down, ultimately killing him. And I think that's what the jury is going to have to think about, decide and evaluate when they deliberate after closing arguments.

GOLODRYGA: So, let's talk about the defense's approach here, because none of the defendants actually took the stand, right? And, in fact, their only witness was a woman who lived in the neighborhood and said that one of the McMichaels had called the police to report that there was a suspicious white man in the neighborhood, of course, that argument being that they are just looking out for anybody who commits any sort of crime, whether they're white or black. What do you make of the defense and how they've approached the case?

JACKSON: So, I think the defense did what they really only had to do, right, which was really the only route they could take, which was to say that, listen, this was based upon a good faith belief. What was the chasing of Ahmaud Arbery, the pursuing of Ahmaud Arbery, the cutting off of Ahmaud Arbery was based upon the notion that there were crimes that were committed in the neighborhood.

These were people who were the defendants I'm talking about, who were concerned about the neighborhood, who felt that this construction site was being visited repeatedly by someone who is stealing things, they were wrong in as much as it was not Ahmaud Arbery but they relied upon good faith. They did not rely upon racism. They did not rely upon or chasing down because he was African-American.

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That's the argument that the defendants are making. The issue though, Bianna, is whether that resonates, whether that's compelling enough.

Now, the defense, to your point, the final point I'll make, is the defendants did not testify. But, in essence, they did, how? Because the remarks that they made, the social media imprint, the text messages and everything else were their words and those words hit the jury and the jury has to decide whether those words with respect to what the defendant's values, beliefs and really their thought processes, did that connected to what they did on this day, I think the prosecution certainly brought it home that it did. And so that's what the jury will have to evaluate shortly when they get the case to deliberate.

GOLODRYGA: Joey Jackson, thank you. We will continue to cover the closing arguments in this trial for you today. Thank you. We appreciate your time.

JACKSON: Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: Well, up next, as Russian forces appear poised to cross into Ukraine, how will the U.S. respond? Congressman Adam Schiff, chairman of the Intelligence Committee, joins CNN live ahead this hour talking to Jim, talk about what he learned at the Munich Security Conference over the weekend.

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