Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

British P.M. Lifting COVID Mandates as Queen Tests Positive; FDA: 4th COVID Vaccine Could be Needed Closer to Fall; Soon, Putin to Speak after Telling France, Germany He Plans to Recognize Separatist Regions in Ukraine as Independent States; Putin Speaks on Russia/Ukraine History & Declares Separate Regions Independent States. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired February 21, 2022 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00]

MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: Rather unfortunate timing, this self-isolation because, as of Thursday, here in England, you don't have to isolate after catching COVID.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Yes, I mean, when I got it, I was on the couch watching streaming TV. I don't see the queen doing that. But we do hope that she is well.

You mentioned this, that the British prime minister, he is moving forward with lifting restrictions. Is he getting pushback?

FOSTER: He is a bit. You've got to remember, in this country, there were very strict -- eventually very strict laws around lockdown and restrictions of movement about how you had to quarantine and go into self-isolation after you catch COVID.

Very strict laws. And they were relatively successful. Widely thought. But then obviously people got frustrated with that.

And Boris Johnson today announced he's lifting, repealing all of those laws, including the law that requires you to self-isolate after catching COVID.

And a lot of people say that's very rash. And the opposition leader actually said it's not a case of living with COVID, as Boris Johnson calls it. It's a case of ignoring COVID. So it's controversial.

BASH: Controversy about COVID all across the globe, that is for sure.

Max Foster, thank you so much.

Here in the U.S., the FDA is considering whether it will need to authorize another dose, a fourth dose of the coronavirus vaccine, possibly as early as this fall.

CNN health reporter, Jacqueline Howard, joins us.

Jacqueline, quite a few months ago, many health officials were saying we don't really know if that fourth dose is necessary. So what changed?

JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: That's right. But what's changed, we do have new data on waning immunity following a booster, following a third dose.

So that's why the FDA says it's continually monitoring this. No decision has been made yet but this is something that health officials are watching closely.

They are looking at waning immunity. They're also looking at the possibility of any new emerging variants come this fall.

And Dr. Peter Marks, the head of the FDA's Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research, he has suggested this possible fall timeline.

Again, these are just ideas. No one can predict the future.

But the FDA told me this, quote:

"Dr. Marks has noted publicly that there's still much uncertainty as to how the pandemic may further evolve. He did note that it is possible by the fourth dose might be recommended as we move into fall."

And if that happens, we can imagine that the rollout of this extra boost will parallel the rollout of the initial boosters we saw this past fall.

So pharmacies could play a role. We could see a phased approach where older adults are eligible first. So that's what we could possibly see.

But, again, health officials are watching this closely. And right now, they tell me their top priority is to make sure that fully vaccinated people do get their booster.

The pace of boosters being administered right now, Dana, is really slow. It's dropped to its lowest pace yet this pandemic.

So here in the U.S., 28 percent of people are boosted. And 65 percent of people are fully vaccinated. But 28 percent of the population is boosted, which health officials say we need to get that way up -- Dana?

BASH: That's a remarkable statistic --

HOWARD: Yes.

BASH: -- 60-plus percent vaccinated but only 20 percent and change are boosted. It does help. I think I can speak from experience on that.

Thank you so much, Jacqueline Howard.

[13:33:24]

And we're waiting. Any moment now, Russian President Vladimir Putin is set to speak on our air. We'll take it live. He's going to speak about the crisis with Ukraine, as that seems to be escalating even more. Stand by.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:38:37]

BASH: Any minute now, Russian President Vladimir Putin is expected to speak.

The Kremlin says he has just informed both France and Germany that he will sign a decree recognizing the Donbass region of Ukraine, as sovereign country, as, quote, unquote, "independent republics."

Nic Robertson is in Moscow and Clarissa Ward is in Ukraine.

Nic, I want to ask you first.

What do you believe that this move actually indicates? And as you answer that, talk about what you hear. You're on the ground there. You're in Russia.

Does there seem to be a groundswell of support from the Russian people for what could be coming?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: There really hasn't been. There really was a feeling that Ukraine is too much of a brother nation to go to war with.

But the images that have been put out by state media over the past 24, 48, 72 hours has been an absolute effort by the Russian state to create the impression among Russian people that Russian citizens, Russian speakers living in the Ukraine in that separatist area need help, that they're under attack from Ukraine.

There's no -- Russian television has not been able to put through any substantial evidence that stands any type of scrutiny to prove that. But that's been the narrative. So Putin will be sort of playing into that.

[13:40:05]

I think we can still look at this from the perspective that President Putin is still trying to do what he does usually, which is to try to sort of break things down, make them go in small steps, make each step seem as if he's legally doing the right thing.

You know, he's signaled he's going to soon recognize the independence of these two republics, Donetsk and Luhansk, in the eastern side of Ukraine.

But it doesn't mean that he's going to put troops across the border immediately. It may be --

BASH: Nic, sorry to interrupt you.

I want to get to Vladimir Putin who is speaking.

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): -- and why this is so important to us, to Russia. And of course, my address is also addressed to our comrades in Ukraine.

I will have to be serious and to the point because it's a very serious matter.

The situation in Donbass has become very critical. And I am addressing you today directly, not just to give you an evaluation of what's happening but also inform you of our further actions in this direction.

First of all, I would like to reiterate that Ukraine is just not our neighboring country. It's an integral part of our own history, culture and spiritual space.

Those are comrades, dear ones, close ones, not just colleagues, not just those who used to serve in the army but also relatives, those who tied up with us in family and blood ties.

Historically, people from this territory were called Russians and Orthodox. This has been up to the 17th centuries when part of those territories united with Russian country and even after that.

So you may think that, well, we all know about this, you know, but -- well-known facts.

However, it is important to understand what is happening today and to explain the goals that we have in front of us. That's why it's important that we go back to the background of this matter.

So first of all, I would like to begin with the fact that the more than Ukraine from the beginning and it has been created by Russia.

The Bolshevik Communist Russia, starting from the revolution of the 1917 so Lenin and his comrades, they have been dying (ph) quite brutally.

Even with regard to Russia, they were actually even taking apart some of the historical Russian parts, millions of those people who used to live there. They were not even asked what to do.

And then, on the eve of the Second World War, and after the Stalin united some of -- annexed some of the territories that belong to Poland and other countries.

And then as a compensation, he gave some -- historical German territory. And later on, Khrushchev, for some reason, gave to Crimea from Russia and gave it to Ukraine.

And this is how the Soviet Ukraine was created. And now, I would like to draw your attention to the initial periods of

creation of the Soviet Union. It's extremely important for us to understand this.

And we need to start from afar.

I would like to remind you that, when we talk about the coup d'etat in 1917, the Bolsheviks started created a new nation, new country. And they had some disagreements.

And then later on, Stalin had to take two posts as well as the head of the countries and to the head of the National Security Council.

And he gave lots of rights to various officials. And Lenin did not like that. He criticized that plan. And he said we have to give concessions to these various territories.

So those were Lenin's idea. He spoke of the right of the countries to be independent and for them to be part of the declaration of creating Soviet Union. And then further on, upon the demise of Lenin after the late '20s.

[13:45:15]

And here we have a very important issue. Why did we have to meet any national ambitions, you know, on the suburbs of the former Russian Empire?

Why did we have some great rights to these various territories?

Why did we have to transfer the rights to the territories, which have been historically part of the Russian Empire. And they've received even statues of the national territorial units.

Why? Why again, I am asking you? Why did we have to be so generous? Even some ardent nationalists would not even dream of this.

And then even give those republics the right to leave this union without any terms and conditions. This is just madness. But this just seems so.

There's an explanation to this. After the revolution, the main objective of Bolsheviks was to stay in power at any cost. At any cost, at any rate.

That is why they were ready for anything, even the humiliating breast piece with the kaiser and their allies.

They were in a very difficult situation, even meeting any requirements, any demands from the nationalists within the country.

In the context of the Russian destiny, we have to say that Lenin's principles were not just an error. They were worse than an error. After the breakup of Soviet Union in '91, this was absolutely obvious.

Surely, the events of the past are not possible to be changed. However, it is important that we speak of them honestly and directly

without being -- without trying to be politically correct here.

Directly, I would like to say that no matter how winning various claims and statesman may be at the moment, they should not create the principles of any nation.

We have to understand that when we talk about the civil war and back then, the situation in the country was very difficult.

But now I would like to remind you that this is how this happened. It is an historical fact.

And as a result of the Bolshevik policy, Ukraine was created. The Soviet Ukraine was created.

And that's -- and we call it Ukraine named after Lenin. Lenin was its author and architect.

And this is truly can be confirmed by the archival documents. Even by the rigid Lenin directives with regard to Donbass.

And now so-called grateful, they have taken down Lenin's monuments. Yes, they call it de-Communization.

So would you like to have de-Communization? OK, we are very happy with that then. But don't stop halfway through. You know, we are ready to show you what true de-Communization means for Ukraine.

So going back to the historical background of the matter. So in 1922, on the space of the former Russian Empire, Soviet Union was created.

And it was clear it was impossible to keep such a great territory just on the conditions of confederations because they were really torn apart from the historical tradition.

Obviously, the Red Terror and the Stalin dictatorship and monopoly of the Communist Party and nationalization of the -- nationalization of the economy, that really didn't work for Soviet Union.

No sovereign republics did not have. Truly they did not have it.

[13:50:02]

In practice, there was a very centralized unitarian state. Stalin, in reality, implemented, not Lenin's, but his own ideas of the country, state creation.

And however, he has not brought any changes into the constitution. Lenin's principles of building the Soviet Union whenever revisited or reviewed.

And it seemed like there was no need in that because, in the totalitarian region, everything kept working just as well, and on the surface seemed to be very good. It's a shame, it's a shame that, from the basic legal foundations on

which all of our state was built, we were not able to take apart fantasies that are destroying for any country.

And no one thought about the future back then. Well, leaders of the Communist Party were sure that they managed to create what they needed, that they resolved the nationalistic issue.

However, falsification and lies cost a lot. The nationalistic virus, and the long-acting bomb seemed to be waiting for its time. And that bomb was the attempt to leave the regime.

And so, in the mid-'80s, on the background of very social and economic problems, the nationalistic issues became very urgent.

Because first of all, they started talking about -- we were not talking about the needs of the population, but the leaders were talking about their greedy interests.

And this gradual transformation of the state building, eventually, went back to Lenin's ideas of the national rights.

And within the Communist Party, every fighting side within the party started to promote nationalistic ideas and started promising their supporters whatever they asked.

It was a very populistic blather about the Democratic future. But whereas, in reality, there was deficit and there was poverty. Nobody was thinking about some tragic consequences for the country.

And then --

BASH: We're listening to Russian President Vladimir Putin give a history lesson, a very intentional history lesson, as he tees up what we expect him to do.

And as we analyze what he's talking about, I want to bring in our reporters who are in the region and on the ground.

I want to start with Nic Robertson, who is in Moscow.

As unpredictable as everybody says Vladimir Putin is, this is about as predictable as it gets.

Because he's trying to lay the groundwork for the part of Ukraine, Ukraine in general, but at least the parts of Ukraine that he's going to try to pull back, being rightly Russian in the first place.

ROBERTSON: That seems like the direction he's going in.

In fact, this may turn out to be a rather maximalist statement, rather than just, as we were expecting, to recognizing the independence of those two tiny bits in the east of Ukraine, Luhansk and Donetsk.

This seems to be President Putin laying out the history, blaming previous leaders, Lenin and Stalin, for creating, in his words, creating a Ukraine that was part -- you know, part a product of the first world war, and parts being shared with Germany, and other parts being parceled out from Poland.

But this seems to be President Putin laying out his case that Ukraine is always part of Russia. Historical, cultural, ethnic, religious ties that go back in his history.

That the recent history, it's not a real country in essence. It is naturally part of a bigger Russia.

The direction of travel at the moment seems to indicate, to me at least, at the moment -- until we hear more -- that he may even be laying a stake to claim the whole of Ukraine.

[13:55:04]

Let's see where he ends up in this. But that's the direction he's going in.

This is the way Putin likes to be, incredibly legalistic, laying out his agenda.

Remember, last summer, he put out a 20-page document for why he believed Ukraine is part of Russia. And this is part of that now being addressed to the nation.

But this is him laying out, piece by piece, by slow piece, his legalistic way of whatever he's going to announce at the end of this.

BASH: And, Clarissa Ward, in Ukraine, where people on the ground there, from the government on down, very much see themselves as independent and not part of Russia.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. I mean, depending on where you are in the country, Dana.

But certainly, here in Kyiv, they're proud patriots and don't want anything to do with Russia at this stage. There are a lot of deep feelings of resentment, particularly after eight years of war.

Of course, as you travel further east in the country, it gets a little more complex.

And there are deep historical and spiritual ties between Ukraine and Russia, which you heard there, President Putin expanding on.

But one of the most telling things, he said, which really made me sit up straight, he said:

"Why did we have to transfer the rights to the territories, which have historically been part of the Russian Empire? And they've even received statues of the national territorial units."

"Why? Why, again, I'm asking, did we have to be so generous? Even some nationalists would not dream of this."

I think what you are getting a real sense of there, and which you just heard Nic discussing as well, is the sense of a historical grievance.

President Putin, as Nic mentioned, wrote this long expansive letter last summer laying out this summer why he feels so strongly there is a deep connection between Russia and Ukraine.

And, yes, quite possibly teeing this up for a kind of more expansionist announcement than we had been expecting.

What people here on the ground were expecting to hear was the recognition of the breakaway republics in the far east of Ukraine as independent.

That wouldn't necessarily result in any violence immediately. But it would give Vladimir Putin a major piece of leverage at the negotiating table.

Because he could then say, as long as I get something in return, we will not move troops into these areas.

The Ukrainian government says they see what is happening. They see what's coming down the pipeline. They've urged people not to respond emotionally.

They have said also that people -- now is the time to really focus on diplomacy and de-escalation.

And while they're trying to project an aura of calm, there's no question that they can see which way the wind is blowing at the moment.

And it does not appear to be blowing in their favor and the situation is growing increasingly grim and increasingly tense.

You don't feel that as palpably in Kyiv.

But on the front-line areas, Dana, right next to the Donbass region, those independent break-away, so-called, considered self-declared independent breakaway regions, you are seeing a major uptick in violence.

Some tens of thousands of people without electricity, without water, and very much fearing that the situation will deteriorate further.

BASH: And thank you, Clarissa.

And, Jim Sciutto, just to cut through it all, we've seen preparation in troop movement, unbelievable numbers of troops, almost close to 200,000 troops in and around Ukraine.

And now we're seeing a rhetorical preparation from Vladimir Putin himself.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: A clear nostalgia for the Soviet Union, frankly, the way he spoke in glowing terms on the way it used to be when all of these breakaway republics, now independent nations, were part of a unified Russian Empire. He used that term as well. Just remarkable, right?

Remember, Putin sees the breakup of the Soviet Union -- we see it as the winning, the victory in the Cold War. Freedom for Eastern Europe and these former Soviet republics and so on. He sees that as a tragedy, right?

And part of his efforts in recent years has been to gain back pieces of that. Which he's already done. A piece of Georgia here, a piece of Ukraine there. And now perhaps another piece of Ukraine.

But the thing is, to Nic's point about whether this is a more maximalist statement, think of the other independent nations who fall into that category.

Being former Soviet Republics. Some of them NATO members, the three Baltic nations. Belarus, which he's already subjugated even more so in recent months.

[13:59:56]

There, is he saying that he intends or has the right to or that Russian history ties Russia to those other independent nations who made their choice to be independent and to join NATO?

BASH: Yes.

SCIUTTO: That would be quite a message to --