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Queen Elizabeth Tests Positive For COVID; Russian Invasion Threat. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired February 21, 2022 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Is he saying that he intends or has the right to or that Russian history ties Russia to those other independent nations who have made their choice to be independent, to join NATO?

[14:00:08]

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Yes.

SCIUTTO: That would be quite a message to NATO, to the U.S., to the world.

BASH: No question about it.

But, as you can see, we're still monitoring what the Russian president is saying. And the question is what he does after that speech.

That does it for me here. I will be back tomorrow.

The news continues right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Victor Blackwell. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM. Alisyn is off today.

Minutes ago, Russian President Vladimir Putin addressed his nation about the situation along the Ukraine border. The Kremlin said that President Putin told the leaders of Germany and France that he plans to recognize some of the contested areas in the Donbass region of Ukraine as separatist republics.

Now, sources tell CNN the U.S. is seeing no slowdown in Russian military preps just days after President Biden said that he believes that Vladimir Putin will invade Ukraine.

And, today, President Biden's national security adviser added this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE SULLIVAN, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: We also have intelligence to suggest that there will be an even greater form of brutality, because this will not simply be some conventional war between two armies. It will be a war waged by Russia on the Ukrainian people to repress them, to crush them, to harm them. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: New satellite pictures show vehicle tracks indicating Russian tanks and other support equipment are taking up field positions in areas close to Ukraine's northeastern border.

The Pentagon said today that video there on the ground shows some similar action.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: You can see it with cell phone footage of people on the ground there and what they're seeing in terms of tanks and armored vehicles moving closer to the border, as well as missile launchers.

You can see it in commercial satellite imagery. I mean, it's out there for everybody to see.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Before President Putin's announcement, President Biden agreed in principle to meet with Putin, providing Russia does not invade Ukraine.

That's according to the White House.

Let's go now to Ukraine.

CNN's Erin Burnett joins us Lviv.

Erin, Vladimir Putin started with this long, I guess, history, as Putin sees it, about why he will likely do what we have been told is coming, acknowledging these cities, this region as separatist republics. What are your big takeaways from the remarks?

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: You watch him. He was animated.

And, as you said, as he is oft to do, goes back to history, evoking the Bolshevik history and exactly as he usually does, and he did what many had expected him to do in some senses, Victor, although maybe not in this format, right? He went ahead and recognized these self- declared republics.

Now, keep in mind, he had eight years to do so since they have had -- been breakaway republics, choosing, obviously, to do it now at this moment. And the big question is, what's the reaction going to be? We understand that, right before he made this announcement, he did call the French president, Macron, as well as the German chancellor.

The French president, we understand right now, is still in a national security meeting that he then urgently called at the Elysee Palace. So that is ongoing right now with the French president. So we don't know exactly what their response was, although we understand they were -- quote, unquote -- "disappointed." And that's the crucial question, Victor, is, what is the West going to do? And how unified will the response be? This is not obviously a technical invasion, right? He's not sending his tanks across the borders. But it is a recognition that these breakaway republics are their own independent territories and not part of the sovereign territory of Ukraine.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken had said -- and this is -- we're writing the U.S. response, Victor. Previously, he had promised swift and firm -- those were his words -- response, in coordination with our allies and partners, if Putin recognized these republics as independent states. So that's all we have out of the United States. They never said that such a recognition would automatically trigger the full sanctions.

And this is the world we're in right now. What will they do? And are we in a position where this is escalating or potentially putting us in a position where de-escalation could be possible in this powder keg situation we're in?

BLACKWELL: President Biden has been pretty clear. He's articulated that if troops and tanks cross that border, that will then trigger those, as he calls them, crippling sanctions.

I wonder, though, does this then take the meeting off the table? Lavrov and Blinken are scheduled to meet later this week. There's this meeting in principle between the president and Putin.

BURNETT: Right. That's right. There's a meeting in principle.

And the Kremlin tonight making it clear that there were no firm plans, were their words, for that meeting. So, in a sense, maybe they want it to look like the U.S. wants it more. I mean, now even that meeting itself is part of the diplomatic parlay that we're seeing.

One thing that I will say, as you point out, there's supposed to be that meaning on Thursday in Geneva between the Russian foreign minister, Lavrov, and Secretary of State Blinken. There was then supposed to be a meeting on Friday between Lavrov and his French counterpart.

[14:05:09]

All of that had been sort of tentatively on the table before the Russian president announced the recognition of these two breakaway republics in Eastern Ukraine. So it's now up for debate whether all that is going to change.

One thing I do want to note here, Victor, is that it doesn't come at no cost for Putin, even the announcement such that it is. He announced it and Russian stocks fell as much as 17 percent, down 11 percent. That's the benchmark Russian index. The ruble plunged. So he is going to take a direct hit. And, by the way, that's the biggest drop for the Russian stock market since Putin annexed Crimea in 2014.

BLACKWELL: Erin Burnett for us with the important context there in Lviv, thank you.

Let's go now to the capital of Ukraine.

CNN chief international correspondent Clarissa Ward is in Kyiv.

So there is this intention now to sign the decree to recognize the separatist enclaves in the Donbass region. This is hugely significant. Explain.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it is hugely significant. But, at this stage, we don't know if President Putin is going to go even further.

He's been talking for quite some time now. And he appears to potentially be laying the groundwork for something even bigger. We don't know. But some of the things he's been talking about, he says Ukraine is an integral part of our own history. Eastern Ukraine is ancient Russian lands. Modern Ukraine was created by communist Russia. Ukraine was not able to achieve stable statehood, and has therefore had to rely on countries like the United States.

He says it's riddled with corruption and with the plague of nationalism, and so on and so forth. This has been quite the historical diatribe here, essentially delineating ideas that he's already touched on in the past. Last summer, he wrote this long letter that was sort of a tome on the sort of history of Russia and Ukraine and their links as brotherly nations.

But we had expected that, potentially, this would be a fairly short address, Victor, that he would come out and declare that he was recognizing the independence of these two breakaway republics in the east of Ukraine. It's not clear at this stage whether that is going to be the climax and the crescendo or whether he has anything else in store. But it is interesting that he has started this with a long preamble essentially saying that Ukraine only exists because of Russia, and that it is spiritually and historically and socially a part of Russia and a part of Russia's family.

So it'll be very interesting to see where he goes from here.

Now, in terms of the actual results of recognizing the legitimacy of these two breakaway republics as being independent, if he doesn't do anything further than that, this will be kind of an interesting, murky, gray area to see how the international community responds.

What he might do is take it to the negotiating table as some leverage to have on his part, so to say, I have declared that they're independent or recognize their independence, but I'm going to refrain from rolling tanks in or conducting any military activity, if you give me X, Y, or Z concession that Russia has been demanding in terms of guaranteeing what it sees as its security needs in Europe at the moment.

So it's possible that he's going to use this as leverage at the negotiating table. It's also possible, though, that we will see tanks rolling into this Donbass region. And then the question becomes -- and I don't want to sort of alienate or overwhelm our viewers by giving them too much information at once -- but these separatists, the area that they recognize as being these republics is actually, much of it, still held by Ukraine.

And so you will look at cities like Mariupol, for example, where my colleague Alexander Marquardt has been doing great work recently. These cities would technically fall in to territory that these republics would recognize as part of their own.

And so you're already laying the groundwork for potential skirmishes or further escalations around these borders. So it'll be very interesting to see what else President Putin says during the remainder of this speech, and whether he goes beyond that recognition.

But even that very recognition, it definitely represents a pivotal moment here. And it raises real questions as to how the West will respond, and also how Ukraine will respond. We did hear from the foreign minister earlier on. He said, once it was clear that this was going to happen, that he was calling basically on people not to get too emotional, and to stay focused on the absolute, real necessity of trying to push for de-escalation.

But, of course, many are worried that the window for that now, Victor, gets smaller and smaller.

BLACKWELL: Clarissa Ward for us in Kyiv.

We understand that to President Putin is -- this message is still being played on Russian state television. We have not yet heard the specific words that he will sign that decree, but we're told by the Kremlin that that is exactly what is coming.

[14:10:08]

Clarissa thank you.

Let's discuss further now.

CNN anchor and national security correspondent Jim Sciutto, Susan Glasser, a CNN global affairs analyst and staff writer at "The New Yorker." And retired General Wesley Clark served as NATO supreme allied commander and is a CNN military analyst.

Good to see you all.

Jim, let me start with you. And I'm going to ask you, from your perspective as a national security analyst -- national security correspondent -- the significance of this decree, once it comes, acknowledging, as he says, recognizing them as these separatists, these regions, Donetsk and Luhansk.

SCIUTTO: It's significant, but his statement could even be worse than we expected going in.

So, first, let's talk about the significance of him slicing off another piece of a sovereign Ukraine by recognizing these eastern promises, which, by the way, when we say Russian-backed separatists there, that did not arise spontaneously. It arose after eight years of Russia arming, financing, backing, and encouraging them, really encouraging a low-grade war there that has cost them 14,000 lives.

That's how we got to where we are today in terms of what's been going on in that region.

But what struck me is that his statements went beyond Ukraine, because he lamented the breakup of the Soviet Union, as he has before, said it was madness, in his terms, that those former Soviet republics were allowed to leave the USSR so easily. That, of course, refers to Ukraine, but think of the other nations, Victor, that that refers to. They are current independent Democratic states, NATO allies.

Think of the Baltic states, Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia. Is the Russian president making a case here for claiming even more territory back over time? That would put him head to head right with NATO. Ukraine, NATO backs it, the U.S. supports it, arms it, et cetera. But it's not a NATO ally. There is no mutual defense agreement between them.

But the Baltics, there are. And that is quite a concerning statement, because that has implications beyond what is already significant, which would be him slicing off another piece of a sovereign state in Ukraine, but presents quite a position for a nuclear-armed Russia to say about other independent states in Europe.

BLACKWELL: Susan, President Biden has been clear that an invasion, tanks, troops, crossing the border, would trigger the sanctions. But we heard from Secretary Blinken long before this announcement from President Putin that if he were to recognize this region, these cities as independent from Ukraine -- they are inside ad Ukrainian territory -- that there would be swift and firm response.

There can be some distinctions there. What's on the table potentially short of the sanctions that will meet this swift and firm response?

SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, we will have to see how the U.S. and others respond to Putin's announcement.

We still haven't heard his -- President Putin final version of what this announcement is. But, already, you have seen the E.U. foreign policy chief suggesting that sanctions are now necessary. Tony Blinken, as you said, the secretary of state, has called Russia taking this action akin to a gross violation of international law.

So I believe there would be some sanctions regardless of whether Putin did nothing else. But, remember, this is still in the escalatory phase of this crisis. And, again, I would point out that President Putin manufactured this drama. We are essentially watching a play that he has written and that he only knows what happens in the next act.

So it seems that we're all spectators here. What does he propose to do with 190,000 troops that remain on Ukraine's borders? This appears to be the legal pretext that he may use for then deploying those troops in a military action. So I think it's a little bit early to speak of what the response is, because it's not yet clear the extent of the actions that Putin is taking.

But I believe this step alone would trigger some kind of sanctions on the part of the United States and its Western allies.

BLACKWELL: General, there are Russian-backed separatists in this region already.

Does this -- what does this portend for those tens of thousands of Russian troops that have not crossed that border? Does that suggest that, in hours, in days, we will see that, or will this for some time be limited to the Ukrainian forces and the Russian-backed separatists already in the Donbass?

WESLEY CLARK, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: We don't know what the game plan is, as Susan was saying.

But it seems like a very logical thing then for the separatists to say, OK, recognize us. Now we want military support in, so some troops for martial will come in. And then they will blow up something else and say there's another provocation.

[14:15:07]

And that's what they need to be able to launch the whole strike against Ukraine and go for the capital. I would be very surprised if Putin is happy to just stop here. I know it's possible he could do it. But it's more likely, with all those troops in the field, that he goes for the whole big thing.

He's going to think like a Machiavelli. You're going to do something really bad and dangerous and unpleasant, get it over with. So he's milked this as far as he can in phase one to see if he could break the West. Apparently, he has concluded he can't.

We're solid enough that he's going to move to phase two, which is the use of force. I suspect (AUDIO GAP) in the next 24 to 48 hours.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

And, General, let me ask you about what we heard from Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin today in his interview with Martha Raddatz of ABC News, in which he talked about what could be in the future for the capital city of Kyiv. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTHA RADDATZ, ABC NEWS: Would we see tanks rolling into Kyiv?

LLOYD AUSTIN, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Well, you could see that. I mean, that's highly likely. You could see that. You could see a significant amount of combat power move very quickly down to take Kyiv.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Highly likely tanks in the capital there. Is there anything at this late date that the U.S. could do, that NATO, the West could do to make that less likely?

CLARK: Well, I think we have done a lot already by giving the Javelin anti-tank missiles. The Ukrainians are -- say they're going to put up a stiff fight.

But I think Putin is looking at the playbook the United States used in 2003. When we wanted regime change in Iraq, we went to Baghdad. And I'm sure that Putin would just be laughing in his teacups thinking about how he was going to do to Kyiv what we did to Saddam Hussein. And so if he goes in there, he's going to have a really tough fight, because these Ukrainians will fight.

It will not fall in a day or two. But if he's ruthless enough, willing to kill it off, blow up enough. yes, he will get there. He definitely will. And it'll be a humanitarian tragedy that will echo for a generation or more through Europe.

BLACKWELL: All right, General Wesley Clark, Susan Glasser, Jim Sciutto, thank you all.

Of course, we will bring you every development of this breaking news as it happens, as President Putin continues to deliver these remarks.

Britain's Queen Elizabeth has tested positive for COVID. We are live at Windsor Castle with the latest on how she is doing. That's coming up next.

Also, with his self-imposed deadline looming, President Biden is starting now to interview his picks to replace retiring Justice Stephen Breyer on the Supreme Court.

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[14:22:10]

BLACKWELL: Queen Elizabeth is carrying out light duties after testing positive for COVID.

Buckingham Palace announced yesterday that she has some mild cold-like symptoms. Remember, the queen is 95 years old.

CNN's royal correspondent, Max Foster joins us now from Windsor England.

Max, what more do we know about how the queen is doing?

MAX FOSTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, she's in self-isolation in the castle. There appears to have been an outbreak behind castle walls. She tested positive yesterday.

She is getting medical attention, we're told, as well, some concern, obviously. She's 95 years old, but also the palace emphasizing that she is carrying out those light duties in her -- as is her mantra, keep calm and carry on. She's at her desk. She sent a letter of condolence to the people of Brazil today, for example, following the tragic flooding there, the message being that she's well enough to work.

Rather unfortunate timing in a way, Victor, because, if this was Thursday, she wouldn't have to isolate as a result of testing positive to COVID, because Boris Johnson has changed the rules. He's basically revoking all the laws that restrict people around the pandemic.

And that's pretty controversial here. He's actually likening it to flu now You should consider having COVID a bit like having flu, be considerate to others, but it doesn't mean you have to stay at home under law. So that's controversial.

But people are concerned about the queen. But we're getting updates by way of what she's able to do, as opposed to what she's unable to do. They don't want to give this running commentary, as they call it, over her medical condition -- Victor.

BLACKWELL: Understood. Max Foster for us.

Thank you, Max.

Let's bring it now the director of the vaccine education center at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, Dr. Paul Offit. He is also a member of the FDA Vaccine Advisory Committee.

Dr. Offit, good to see you again.

Let's start here with Queen Elizabeth, again, 95 years old, as cloistered during this pandemic as any 95-year-old in the world. We know from the palace that she's vaccinated, but they won't confirm whether she is boosted, a very vulnerable age group. What are you thinking here?

DR. PAUL OFFIT, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: Well, she is an advertisement for vaccines. I mean, here you have somebody in a high- risk group because of her age, who has gotten at least two doses of vaccine and has only a mild illness, I mean, mild enough that she's still able to do light work.

So, again, this is why it's so important to get vaccinated. Probably 85 percent of the deaths in our country are in people over 65 years of age. She's especially in a high-risk group because she's 95.

BLACKWELL: Speaking of additional doses, the FDA now says that they are continually reviewing data from overseas about the potential for a fourth dose of a COVID vaccine for the fall, although the third dose is still optional. It is not part of the definition of full vaccination.

[14:25:00]

Do you expect that there will be the need for that fourth dose in the fall, and then the third dose, which is now the booster, will be part of the original definition of vaccination?

OFFIT: I think we have to define what we want from this vaccine. If what we want from this vaccine is protection against serious

illness, meaning the kind of illness that caused you to seek a doctor's care or go to the hospital or go to the intensive care unit, then this is a three-dose vaccine for certain groups, meaning people over 65, people who are immune-compromised, depending on the degree to which they're immune-compromised.

People who have several comorbidities are at high risk. And, therefore, that is a three-dose vaccine. For healthy young people who don't have comorbidities, this is still, to me, a two-dose vaccine. We don't have any evidence that you need that third dose to get better protection against serious illness.

What the third dose does there is, it increases your neutralizing antibodies. It protects you against mild illness for several months, and then your neutralizing antibodies come back down again. I think we have to make it clear what we want this vaccine so that the public isn't confused.

BLACKWELL: Yes, I want some clarity there, because, for so long, we have heard from the CDC, everybody, get your booster, get the third shot, but you're saying that young healthy people not necessary to get that booster?

OFFIT: I'm saying that there remains no evidence that people who are young and healthy have a greater percentage chance of not having a serious illness if they have gotten that third dose.

Those data have not been published. And so I don't quite understand why healthy young people are asked or recommended to get a third dose. Maybe those data are forthcoming, but they haven't been published yet.

BLACKWELL: Speaking of published data, "The New York Times" is reporting that the CDC has a wealth of data that it is not publishing, that it could be helpful to local health departments in keeping people safe.

When "The New York Times" reached out for comment, the CDC said that it's not ready for prime time. What's that mean?

OFFIT: Well, so I think there's often disagreements among researchers as to when they get to the point that the data are consistent enough or internally validated enough or robust enough to say, this is now something that we should share with the American public.

And I think that's what this is all about. It's sort of comes off badly. It sounds like data are being held, or, worse, misrepresented. But I don't think there's any evidence for that. I think the CDC is the principal epidemiological agency in this country, and they have provided us with a lot of good data.

I would like to see though, the data that supports the recommendation that those over 12 years of age who are otherwise healthy have a higher percentage chance of being protected against serious illness if they get that third dose, because, at least, if that's true, our FDA Vaccine Advisory Committee hasn't been presented with those data yet. BLACKWELL: All right, Dr. Paul Offit, thank you.

Well, happening now, closing arguments in the federal civil rights trial against the three men convicted of killing Ahmaud Arbery happening. We will have the latest from outside the courthouse.

That's next.

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