Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Verdict Reached for Three Arbery Killers in Federal Hate Crimes Trial; Arbery Killers Guilty of All Charges in Federal Trial Including Hate Crimes, Attempted Kidnapping. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired February 22, 2022 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:30:00]

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN NEWSROOM: And breaking news just now, the jury has reached a verdict in the federal hate crimes trial of the three white men convicted in the murder of Ahmaud Arbery.

CNN's Nadia Romero is in Brunswick, Georgia. And, Nadia, the court just came back into session. What can you tell us about what's happening right now?

NADIA ROMERO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so what's happening right now, Bianna, the judge came in and she addressed the audience. It's a jam-packed courtroom, as it has been throughout this trial, especially during closing arguments and opening statements. And she told everyone in there, this is going to be emotional, people will feel some kind of way regardless of what the verdict will be, and she wanted everyone to remember that they're in the court of law and that they need to respect the decision of the jury. And she said that anyone who wasn't able to do so should leave at that time. Then she welcomed in the jury. And at this moment, we are waiting to hear the verdict being read.

[10:35:02]

Now, this has been very emotional for everyone involved. Just moments before the jury was called back in, we saw Marcus Arbery, the father of Ahmaud Arbery, going into the courthouse, also famed civil rights attorney Benjamin Crump, who has been with the family since the beginning, since even before the state trial, is in the courtroom right now. He was asked his feelings, his thoughts heading, and he just put his hands up, that he was praying for justice, in his view, would be a guilty verdict for all three men.

So, this is a packed courthouse as, really, people across the world are watching to see what happens in this particular case. And, Bianna, so many people have said, why are we having a federal hate crimes trial when all three men were convicted of murdering Ahmaud Arbery and the state trial, they're already facing life in prison, but this is still so important in this country. When you asked Benjamin Crump, when you ask Wanda Cooper-Jones, the mother of Ahmaud Arbery, they tell you this is about sending a message that racism in this country will not be tolerated. And for many, many years, people have done racist act, hate crimes and have gotten away with it. They believe if they get a guilty verdict, it will send a message that that will not be tolerated any longer, that people will be held accountable for their actions.

So, in their view, this trial was just as important as the state trial, and, of course, we're still waiting for that verdict. We should get the answer, Bianna, any moment now.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. When that comes in, we'll come back to you. Stay with us, Nadia.

I want to bring in Bernarda Villalona, Criminal Defense Attorney and former Prosecutor. Bernarda, let me ask the latest development from this morning, and that was the jurors asked the judge, which part of the verdict form do I need to read? If you're the defense attorney in this case, what, if anything, do you read into that specific question?

BERNARDA VILLALONA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY AND FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, one, that they definitely have a verdict, but, two, they're confident as to what their verdict is. It doesn't look good for the defense. It looks like this jury is definitely going to convict these three defendants. So, this is the time that we've been waiting for. This is a nerve-racking time. And we should know shortly what is the fate of these defendants.

GOLODRYGA: Do you read anything into the fact it took them a little over three hours in deliberation before they reached a verdict?

VILLALONA: So, I think it's only been a little bit over three hours. They just got the case yesterday and they already have a verdict today, they started at 9:00 this morning, is that the evidence was so overwhelming, that it will be very difficult for a jury of 12 to discount the evidence, the strong evidence of guilt in this case. So, to me, what I see is a guilty conviction. However, you just never know when you're dealing with jurors.

GOLODRYGA: Defense attorneys have not denied their use of racist language and text in the past. Clearly, it will be difficult to deny it since we have proof of it firsthand. That having been said, their argument had always been that these three men, notwithstanding that language, were just trying to protect their neighborhood. Do you think that that was a credible defense on their part?

VILLALONA: Well, that's the defense that they were left with because there was no way that they can run away from their own words, their own words that are through social media, that are through text messages and what they said to other individuals that they felt comfortable talking to. So, obviously, that is the only defense they were left with. The question will be, can the jury decipher what their racist mentality was and whether that racist mentality was what motivated them to chase, hunt and execute Ahmaud Arbery.

GOLODRYGA: What's interesting about this case is that these three defendants weren't in one united front, right? I mean, they had three separate defense attorneys. And the attorney representing William Bryan says that Bryan says had not been motivated at all by race. In fact, he saw the McMichaels chasing after Arbery and assumed that they were chasing someone who just committed a crime. Do you think that that is a valid point and argument for his specific case?

VILLALONA: For his specific case is the strongest argument that they could come up with, but remember that the prosecution in their closing argument was able to rebut the argument and say, if anything, in regards to William Roddie Bryant, the case is the strongest because he knew nothing about Ahmaud Arbery. All he saw was a black man being chased by two white and he joined in.

GOLODRYGA: Bernarda, I'm so sorry to interrupt you. We are just hearing this that the jury has found all three men who killed Ahmaud Arbery guilty on a federal hate crime charge. I want to get your reaction to that before we go out back to our reporter, Nadia, there on the scene.

VILLALONA: Well, the jury has spoken and this federal jury has determined that these three defendants, the McMichaels as well as Bryan are guilty, guilty of willfully interfering and intimidating Ahmaud Arbery and depriving him of his rights. Why? Because he's African-American.

[10:40:01]

Why? Because he is black. And the jury has finally spoken and called these three men what they are and that is guilty and that they were motivated by racial hate and anger and animosity.

GOLODRYGA: Talk about the symbolism here in this verdict, because these men were already facing life behind bars, right? Nadia, what more can you bring us and if you can delve deeper into the symbolism of this verdict here?

ROMERO: Yes, Bianna. So, I want to break this down for you. Had the interference of rights, right, which is one of the charges, all three men found guilty of that, and that is something we saw in the video, how they used their vehicles to trap Ahmaud Arbery on that street and he didn't have anywhere to go, as the prosecution lawyers said, if he would have went on to private property, he would have been on private property. That would have been a crime. So, he had nowhere to go on that public street. They trapped him in. And Travis McMichael said to police, we trapped him like a rat. That was repeated over and over again in the courtroom.

We also saw this charge of a conviction, guilty on all counts for all three men on kidnapping. A lot of people have this image of kidnapping someone like Hollywood, where you throw a bag over their head and you take them off. It doesn't need to look like that in order to be kidnapping. That's what the jury found.

And in the last count was on having weapons being used during the act of a crime, a violent crime, and that's where charges against Travis McMichael and Gregory McMichael. Roddie Bryan did not have the gun, so he was not included on that count.

But the jury saw this exactly the way the prosecution wanted them to see this, that these men were motivated and fixated on race. And they talked about how not only were they racist but they seem to fascinate themselves with the idea of revenge killing against black people, that they wanted to somehow find a way to kill a black person and that was said through social media posts and through text messages when all three of the men used racial slurs, like the N word, to talk about black people as a whole, to make fun of Martin Luther King Jr. Day and to go on and on and on about their dislike, their hatred for black people.

So, when they saw Ahmaud Arbery, the prosecution and the jury agreed that they saw a criminal, they someone who did not deserve to be in their neighborhood and shouldn't be there. And they felt that they had the right to stop him. And when he didn't stop, they felt they had the right to then kill him.

And What was pointed out during this case by the prosecution were the moments after Ahmaud Arbery laid on the ground with bullet holes in his chest, bleeding out, his last gasp of air on this earth, and what did those three men do? Did they rush to him? Did they give him aid? No. The prosecution said that they would have treated a dog who got hit by a car better. They would have had more dignity for that dog than they did for Ahmaud Arbery, as he laid on the ground, bleeding out dying.

This was an emotional trial not just for the family of Ahmaud Arbery but for the millions of people around the world who saw that video of Ahmaud running for his life and then thinking to himself, I've got to survive. So, trying to take that shotgun that was pointed at him and trying to disarm the McMichaels from killing him, that's when he was shot and killed. We saw that viral video. This is when the case really took off and so many people started weighing in on what should happen.

Bianna, the jury saw this exactly the way the prosecution did, exactly the way that Ahmaud Arbery's family saw it. And we know that tomorrow is the two-year mark of his death, the day that he was murdered, not far from here in Scintilla Shores. Bianna?

GOLODRYGA: A grim anniversary, of course. And I want to go back to Bernarda and talk about that question that I raised earlier about the symbolism that this verdict means, because, obviously, these men had been facing decades, if not, life behind bars anyway. But what kind of message, what kind of precedent, in fact, does this send now?

VILLALONA: So, this is a completely different case and a completely different message that's being sent to the country. This federal trial forced Americans and forced those jurors in that courtroom that were deliberating and everyone else that was part of that trial in observing that trial to speak about racial tensions, to speak about racism, to speak about racist hate, to speak about the motivation that even on February 23rd, we're talking about 2020, that despite having an African-American president in the past, despite the history that we've been through, that still in 2020, racism exists and it still exists to the point that because of a person's color, their race, their creed, that they can still be hunted down as if they were animals, and that's the message that is sent.

It's completely different than the state trial, when we saw what was depicted, which was the violence, but more of what was in the mind of these defendants and what drove them to have the audacity to chase down this man that they did not know, did not know their mother, their family, their friends, what he's been through, but because of how he looked.

[10:45:00]

They determined that they wanted to be judge, jury and executioner.

Bernarda, as a legal expert, I'm just curious, aside from the defense argument and what we heard from the prosecution, what impact at all did Ahmaud Arbery's family being there day in, day out for as we noted, nearly two years, tomorrow marks that two-year anniversary of his murder, what impact does that have on a jury in just the ambiance in a courtroom like that?

VILLALONA: Oh, having the family of the deceased present in the courtroom during a trial has an enormous effect. I tried homicides in Brooklyn, New York, for ten years and it makes a huge difference when you have the family there because you're showing these jurors that, yes, you can't talk to the jurors but you're seeing that the family member, that this person we're talking about that died had a family. This person is human. This person has loved ones. This person and his family are looking at you to hold the person accountable and give them some form of solace because justice in the sense justice would have been this not happening to begin with. But what is shows to them is that, please, look at the family, this man, Ahmaud Arbery, mattered.

GOLODRYGA: And, Nadia, we also see the impact and role that technology played in this case as well. It wasn't just hearsay, where people said I heard them use these racially explicit words and negative behavior on their part. The jurors actually had tangible proof via text message here and that, no doubt, resonated and played a role in their ultimate decision too.

ROMERO: It absolutely did, Bianna. And if I could answer the last question you asked about the impact of the family, seeing them day in and day out, I want to remind everyone that there was a moment where the prosecution could have accepted a plea deal by the defendants and we would not have had this trial. But It was Ahmaud Arbery's mother, Wanda Cooper-Jones, who said, no, do not accept the plea deal. I want this to go to trial. She said she wanted the world to see who the men were who killed her son, because those social media posts and text messages that you're talking about, Bianna, were not really included in the state trial.

The state focused on that viral video of the killing of Ahmaud Arbery. They didn't dive deep into the racial aspect. And his mother, Ahmaud Arbery's mother, said the world needs to know who these men are and who they were when they killed my son. That's why we have this federal hate crimes trial. So, the impact, the significance of having a family dialed in and talking to the prosecution and being vocal mattered so much in this particular case.

To your second question, Bianna, about the impact of social media and text messages, it showed the jury who these men were, not just on the day that they encountered Ahmaud Arbery but for the years leading up to them. It showed them the 20 witnesses that the prosecution brought forth who also could corroborate those statements that they made and text messages and those social media posts that these men were racist to the core. That's what the prosecution was trying to prove.

And they did so in every form imaginable, even in one-on-one conversations when they thought they were around an audience who would agree with them going into racial rants against black people. There were so many instances where people came forward and said, I had this conversation with Travis McMichael, I had this conversation with Gregory McMichael, this is what they said to me, to add to the case of the prosecution was laying out these men were racist and you could see it.

And it was so impactful in the courtroom when the prosecution read exactly what was written in those text messages or on social media verbatim. So, as I would say, they said the N word, the prosecutors said the actual racial slur. And you could feel the sting, how heavy it was in the courtroom as she said it over and over again because they used the word over and over again so freely, so loosely. And you could see the jury shrink in their seats as it was said over and over again. The text messages, the social media posts, they were so important to this particular trial. Bianna?

GOLODRYGA: Nadia, Bernarda, please stay with us. We're going to take a quick break. And when we come back, more on this breaking news story. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:00]

GOLODRYGA: We have more of our breaking news out of Georgia where a jury found all three white men found guilty in the charges of federal trial including hate crimes and attempted kidnapping of Ahmaud Arbery.

I want to go to Ryan Young. He was inside the courtroom as that verdict was read. He joins us now. Ryan, I can only imagine that was an extremely emotional scene for Arbery's family.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Emotional on both sides. You think about this, two years after the day that Ahmaud was shot and killed, to be there for the verdict, you can see family members holding each other, holding hands and crying as one guilty verdict after another came out in that courtroom.

It was also interesting because several members of the jury were also emotional. We saw them wiping tears away from their face as they were saying one count after the next. So, you could tell there was a toll for them from what they heard over the several days here. Now, they deliberated for less than four hours in this case.

Right now, we are actually waiting for family members to walk outside this courtroom right now, and I can tell you watching Marcus Arbery, he was swaying back and forth as each count of guilty was read out. Wanda Cooper-Jones was also very emotional as this verdict was going.

So now, you can see here's the family walking out of court right now even as we're live, we believe they'll go over here to do a news conference just about their emotions from what has been happening. But you can honestly imagine after two years of going through this, the pain that they have experienced, this is the day they wanted. They wanted to go to federal court. They didn't want a plea deal.

So, there it is, you can see Ben Crump right here holding his hands up with the family. This has been tremendously emotional for them. And this is, at this point, they wanted this moment here.

GOLODRYGA: And, Ryan, as we wait to hear from Ahmaud Arbery's family, as you noted, this day wouldn't have happened had it not been for the persistence of his mother who fought for this trial, not only for justice for her son but for the world to see.

YOUNG: You think about the strength of the family from the idea at first Ahmaud was treated like he was a criminal, and then the idea that this family kept pressing forth. From day one, they were saying that this had to happen and that's something maintained throughout this. She was on that front row and you can tell the emotion was pouring out.

There were community members here as well who obviously were pulling for this family. These people have been through so much. And when you think about everything that happened in that state case and then to get to this federal case and get to this moment right here almost a day before the two-year anniversary of his death, you can only imagine that emotion that is surging through this family right now.

[10:55:11]

As we stood in the back, there were so many people who were saying prayers as the verdict was read out. You can obviously understand in a federal courtroom where there are no cameras, a lot of this was just building up. On the other side, when you look at the McMichael family, they were also visibly shaken by this. Ben is walking to the podium right now, so you guys can take a listen to what they're about to say.

BENJAMIN CRUMP, ARBERY FAMILY ATTORNEY: Good morning. And it is a good morning. Thank God for this good morning that Wanda and Marcus have prayed for. It is because of their conviction to get full justice, not partial justice, for their son, Ahmaud Arbery, we get to celebrate this moment.

On behalf of everybody who has been with them the whole journey, my great co-counsel, Lee Merritt, who is in Texas in a historic campaign to become the first black attorney of the state of Texas and everybody on his legal team, on behalf of everybody on the Ben Crump legal team, especially Cliff Jones, who's been there, and certainly to all of those activists, those activists who have showed up every day, mot only here in Brunswick but around America. To the clergy, to Reverend Al Sharpton, Reverend Jesse Jackson, all the local clergy, all the state of Georgia clergy who prayed for this moment, we rejoice and give God the glory for justice.

We acknowledge the Transformative Justice Association, Daryl, Barbara, Lynn, all of them, for showing up and being part of this campaign for justice. We would be remiss before you here from Wanda and Marcus if we did not thank in a special way the United States Department of Justice Civil Rights Division and Assistant U.S. Attorney Kristen Clarke for her leadership, as well as her frontline attorneys, Attorney Tara Lines (ph), Attorney Barbara Barbie Bernstein and U.S. Attorney General Merrick Garland. But a special thanks to Kristen Clarke, the first black woman to lead the Civil Rights Division of the United States Department of Justice. This was very important to her in fulfilling this historic role of saying liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Clarke.

Okay. Yes, ma'am. And now, you know, these parents, Marcus and Wanda, I mean, for almost two years now, you know, tomorrow will be the two year mark for when their son, Ahmaud Arbery, was lynched for jogging while black, and these parents joined a fraternity that no parent wanted to be a member of. And with such dignity, they stood up for Ahmaud, they say that Ahmaud's life mattered, that Ahmaud would never be forgotten, that Ahmaud Arbery would be in the history books, not only for the state of Georgia but for the United States of America.

Wanda, Marcus, I believe that this is the first time in the state of Georgia's history where there has been a conviction for a federal hate crime and you all did that. You all did that you all did that.

[11:00:00]

This was because of Wanda and Marcus.