Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

White House Hits Russia with Punishing Sanctions for Moving Against Ukraine; Trial Begins for Ex-Officer Involved in Breonna Taylor Raid; Study Shows COVID School Closures Had Harmful Impact on Preschoolers' Development. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired February 23, 2022 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[10:00:00]

ANTONIO GUTERRES, UNITED NATIONS SECRETARY-GENERAL: Our world is facing a moment of peril. I truly hoped it would not come. The latest developments regarding Ukraine are a cause of great concern, and they include reports of increased ceasefires violations across the contact line and the real risk of further escalation on the ground.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN NEWSROOM: Joining us now to discuss is Ambassador Richard Haas, the president of the Council on Foreign Relations. He's also the author of The World, a Brief Introduction. Ambassador Haass, great to see you.

Anyone who follows you knows that you have long said that sanctions are not a silver bullet and they only go so far. Russia has had years of sanctions thrown their way and Vladimir Putin has presented it to the public as not something that's punitive because it's something they did, but that the west wants to keep them down and does not want them to be a strong country. Given the situation we're in now, what options are left?

RICHARD HAASS, PRESIDENT, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Sanctions are one of the tools, Bianna, and I think we should do them particularly in a targeted way. You saw some of that yesterday going after institutions, certain banks, going after certain individuals as opposed to broad-based sanctions, which many would feed into Putin's narrative.

You have got to strengthen Ukraine militarily. You've got to raise the costs for what likely is to come. You've got to strengthen NATO. You don't want Mr. Putin to be tempted to do something even worse. And I think you also want to keep getting out the narrative. I think it's important to explain that this is a war without it calling a war of choice that Vladimir Putin is bringing on himself and bringing on Russia.

Unless you've seen something I haven't, Bianna, there has not been a great groundswell of support in Russia. This is not a bottom-up demand. This is something that's coming from a very narrow top-down. And I think that's something that we ought to try to combat in our own narrative.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: Ambassador Haass, is it possible that we, writ large, are underestimating Putin's chances of winning? however brutal from his perspective, his last four military entanglements in Chechnya, in Georgia in 2008, here in Crimea in 2014, that in Syria, from his perspective, he won, as brutal as those campaigns, particularly in Chechnya, were? Is it possible here he gets what he wants?

HAASS: It is possible. And I think you're right, too many people, Jim, have been too sanguine about the so-called porcupine defense, we're going to turn Ukraine into Afghanistan. That ought to be our goal, but we shouldn't be sanguine about it.

Also those reports about a week ago that Putin and the Russians were essentially talking about what I would describe as a kind of preemptive decapitation of an opposition, to identify, arrest or kill the people who can organize the broad-based defense. I take that seriously. So, we shouldn't assume that Russia will not prevail.

I will say one other thing. The number of forces, as big as 150,000 or so are, that's not a lot for a country the size of Ukraine, given its physical size, the population of 40 million, and the capabilities of its armed forces. So, I do think it's an open question of how this would unfold militarily.

GOLODRYGA: And, Ambassador, I want to go back to your earlier comments about that there are not be a groundswell of support from Russians for a war with Ukraine, and that is true. This is not something hat's seen as popular unlike when Vladimir Putin annexed Crimea.

But we are seeing though among polls, only the few independent polls left in the country, is that if there will be a war, if there will be further aggression, that Russians, due to the propaganda that they're inundated with on a daily basis, will blame the west for it. How do you turn that around?

I know President Biden last week reached out to Russians specifically. I'm not sure that it caught their attention the way he wants it to. What else can be done?

HAASS: Well, I would continue doing it. I think we've done very well, Bianna, in our use of intelligence to get out in front of the government. I think if the Russians do go in at scale, we ought to be showing pictures of what they are doing. I think we ought to remind people of the assurances that have been put forward to Russia, the idea that NATO enlargement is not on the agenda any time soon. And then so repetition is really important. In real estate, you always talked about location, location and location, when it comes to public diplomacy and information warfare, repetition, repetition, repetition.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask before we go, Ambassador Haass. There is a lot of talk about how quickly or how slowly this administration, NATO rolled out sanctions and other military assistance to Ukraine, but I wonder given Putin's maximalist positions in his address to the nation, the Russian nation on Monday, seeming to encompass not just Ukraine but the whole swath of Eastern Europe, is he deterrable?

[10:35:02]

HAASS: Not clear he is deterrable. Deterrence is always about your capability and your will and how it's perceived. My view is he may discount us, but also he just may be determined. Putin is leaning very far forward in his scheme. He may have passed the point of vulnerability. We have to assume that. So I think we should still try to deter but we also should not assume it would work. I would prepared for the day after the term fell.

SCIUTTO: Goodness, it's a sobering assessment. Ambassador Richard Haass, thanks so much, as always, for joining.

HAASS: Thanks for having me.

GOLODRYGA: Well, right now, President Biden is vowing to do what he can to make sure that the U.S. doesn't pay the price for Russia's aggressions and actions in Ukraine, but he acknowledges that the new sanctions against Russia could affect Americans, especially at the gas pump.

CNN's matt egan joins me now. Matt, we know that consumers have been dealing with this problem even prior to these last few weeks with escalating tensions. What more is the president saying and what more can be done?

MATT EGAN, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: Well, Bianna, it all depends on how far Russia ends up going into Ukraine. This first volley of sanctions are probably not going to have a dramatic impact on U.S. consumers, but that could change in an instant. President Biden laying out a whole bunch of penalties this week, penalizing two Russian banks, Russian elites, limiting Moscow's ability to raise money from the west and working with Germany to stop Nord Stream 2, the Russian natural gas pipeline.

Nord Stream 2, that's a big deal, but that's more of an impact on European consumers. The United States does not rely on Russia for natural gas, and we've actually maxed out our capability to send natural gas overseas, even if we want to.

Now, even though the Russian ambassador to the United States is warning that these first round of sanctions is going to have a big impact on American consumers, that does not seem to be the case and that seems to be the message from the market too. Oil prices have actually backed off from their recent highs. Brent was at 99.50 early Tuesday. It's backed off to around $98.15 right now.

That's not say oil is cheap. It's not. It's up. Gas prices, which moved a lot, they're up too, the national average hitting $3.54 a gallon. That is a fresh seven-year high, up 27 cents in a month. And they'll go even higher if oil prices do.

I think the question is what comes next. Because White House officials have said additional sanctions could come at any moment if Russia takes further actions here. If the west ends up hitting Russian banks or even Russian oil companies, that would be a big deal because the world is short on oil supplies right now. They can't really afford losing access to Russian bowels right now.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. And we know that commodities really trade with a lot of volatility, right, so they may be down today but we could see oil prices go back up tomorrow if tensions and violence escalates in Ukraine.

EGAN: Exactly.

GOLODRYGA: Matt, great to have you on, as always. Thank you.

EGAN: Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: Well, he's the only officer to face charges in connection to a botched raid that led to the death of Breonna Taylor, but it's not the day in court her family had been hoping for.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LONITA TAYLOR, TAYLOR FAMILY ATTORNEY: This is the justice that our neighbors deserve, but it's still not the justice that Breonna deserves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: The charges at the center of the case against Brett Hankison, that's up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:40:00]

GOLODRYGA: Jury deliberations are expected to begin any moment in the federal civil rights trial of three former Minneapolis police officers charged in the death of George Floyd. Alexander King, Tou Thao and Thomas Lane each face a charge of deprivation of rights for failing to give Floyd medical aid as Derek Chauvin knelt on his neck for nine minutes. Tou and King are also charged with failing to intervene. The defense argued that that they were all inexperienced and defer to Chauvin's seniority. The former officers still face a trial on state charges later this year. And right now, opening statements are underway in the trial for the former Louisville, Kentucky Police officer charged in connection to the botched raid that led to the killing of Breonna Taylor in March of 2020. But those charges are not related to Taylor's death. Brett Hankison is charged wanton endangerment for blindly firing ten shots into Taylor's building.

CNN National Correspondent Jason Carroll is live from Louisville, Kentucky. And, Jason, what should we expect in court today?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, opening statements, Bianna, are already underway. Prosecutor Barbara Whaley started by telling the jurors what the case is not about. She says it's not about the death of Breonna Taylor, she says it's not about the botched search warrant, it's not even about the LMPD, Louisville Metropolitan Police Department. She says, what it is about, she told jurors, is Brett Hankison and his actions that night.

And she has spent much of her opening so far in her first several minutes explaining where Hankison was, where he was standing and what he was doing the moments leading up to the shooting. Hankison, as for his part, again, charged with wanton endangerment, his attorney will argue later on that his client fired after he heard gunfire and thought his fellow officers were being executed.

Now, I've reached out to Breonna Taylor's mother. I've spoken to her a number of times, spoke to her about this trial and what it means and what it does not mean for her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[10:45:00]

TAMIKA PALMER, BREONNA TAYLOR'S MOTHER: Frustrated, angry, heartbroken, disappointed, the list goes on. It's just this vicious cycle of not trusting in the system.

CARROLL: Do you feel like justice is being served?

PALMER: No, not at all, but it's a start, I guess, for somebody, not Breonna at all.

BAKER: This is the justice that her neighbors deserve, but it's still not the justice that Breonna deserves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: And we do have a statement from Hankison's attorney, who told CNN, he said, we will look forward to the upcoming trial, where, hopefully, he said, the true narrative of this unfortunate incident will be told and correctly reported.

Hankison, for his part, is expected to testify during the trial, as well as several other officers who were involved with the raid that night. Bianna?

GOLODRYGA: Jason Carroll, thank you.

Well, the pandemic is having a lasting impact on young children. A new study says COVID school closures have stunted the development of preschoolers. We'll have more information on this, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:00]

GOLODRYGA: New this morning, a new study find school closures during the pandemic have harmed children's cognitive and motor skills. The study followed preschoolers in Uruguay and found the cognitive and motor development skills of kids age five suffered the most, along with their attitudes towards learning.

CNN Medical Analyst Dr. Leana Wen joins me now. Dr. Wen, we had been worried about a scenario just like this, as much as care giving and providing we can give for our children, teachers serve a purpose. What do you make of these findings and what can be done to turn things around?

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Bianna, the study is disturbing but not at all surprising. We know that school has a benefit for children and, therefore, when kids are pulled out of school and also with the uncertainty of not knowing when they're going to go back, that that has detrimental impact certainly on emotional well-being, on stress, including of the parents and caregivers who now don't know what to do about working at the same time. But also now we see that there are very specific impacts on cognitive development, on motor and other milestones for children.

Also we see that there are huge disparities in the study that those parents and families that are the most vulnerable, most disadvantaged are the ones that are hurt the most. And so, at this point, we really need policies that aim to keep children in school, perhaps, for example, not having quarantine if children are exposed, having tests to stay or other programs. And we also need to be attentive to these long-term consequences. Can we work to close these rampant and wide educational disparities?

GOLODRYGA: You and I are both the mothers of children who are both fall within this age group. I have a five-year-old, and I know you have young children as well. Just as a mother and a doctor, how do you respond to this headline and what are you personally doing to make sure that your children continue to develop the way they should be right at this age?

WEN: It's really hard and I don't have a good answer here. I have a four-year-old who was pulled out of preschool at the very beginning of the pandemic for six months. He has since been back in preschool, but his class has been out on quarantine multiple times and it's been really stressful. And I have a less than two-year-old who has not known anything other than this pandemic reality.

So, I think, at this point, we need to aim to work towards a new normal, recognize that our children have really suffered so much during the pandemic, and we as a society need to focus on prioritizing our children.

GOLODRYGA: Some positive headlines, according to the American Academy of Pediatrics, cases among children remains high but they are declining, down nearly 42 percent week-over-week. Are you encouraged by this trend and do you think that it's lasting?

WEN: I'm definitely encouraged by trends overall for adults and children. We saw this omicron violent blizzard, flashflood, if you will, pass through a population, infecting so many people. But on the bright side, there are a lot of people now with some, at least temporary, immunity because of infection, and you combine that with vaccination, I think we are in for a spring lull.

That said, vaccination remains really important and parents of children who are eligible to be vaccinated need to do so. That helps to protect their kids and it also helps all of us to return to normal.

GOLODRYGA: On returning to normal and on the issue of masking, Chicago is the latest city that's set to drop its masking and vaccine requirements at the end of the month. Do you think that now is the time to do that? Is it safe?

WEN: Well, I agree with dropping the mask requirement because I think it's time for us to shift from a government-imposed requirement in this regard to an individual response. Although people should remember that just because a requirement is removed doesn't mean that it's settling safe. People should still be masking indoors in crowded public spaces.

But I don't agree with dropping vaccine requirements. What's going to help us to prevent another surge in the future is vaccination. And so I hope that as people consider what requirements to keep and what to drop, masking is something that can be made optional, but I actually think we need more incentives for people to be vaccinated.

[10:55:01]

GOLODRYGA: And we know that vaccinations among children remain stubbornly low as well in this country. Dr. Leanna Wen, thank you, as always. We appreciate it.

WEN: Thanks so much.

GOLODRYGA: And thank you so much for watching CNN today. I'm Bianna Golodryga in New York.

SCIUTTO: And I'm Jim Sciutto in Lviv, Ukraine. It is a harrowing time here. CNN will continue covering the latest developments in the ongoing Russia-Ukraine crisis throughout the day.

At This Hour starts right after a short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:00:00]