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U.N.: More Than 50,000 Ukrainian Refugees Have Fled; Ukraine: Russia Has Seized Chernobyl & Is Holding Staff Hostage; U.S.: Russian Forces Meeting More Resistance Than Expected; Ukrainians Vow to Stay and Fight Russian Aggression; Soon, Biden to Nominate Ketanji Brown Jackson to Supreme Court. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired February 25, 2022 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00]

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: You had three Democrats who had voted to confirm her on a lower court. One of them was no longer in the Senate. But those two then did not vote to confirm her for the Supreme Court.

All right. Thank you so much, all of you, for your expertise and your reporting.

And up next, we're going to go back to our breaking coverage of the invasion of Ukraine and the surge of civilians fleeing for safety.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:35:16]

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: I'm Erin Burnett, in Lviv, Ukraine.

The Russian assault is advancing in this country and the exodus of civilians has begun. The vast majority of them women and children.

More than 50,000 Ukrainians that we are aware of have fled the country in less than 48 hours. These are the latest numbers from the U.N. Tens of thousands more are expected to be displaced in the coming days.

And here in Lviv, some people thought they could come this far west, that would be enough. Obviously, that is not the case. You had strikes near here. Great fear. People moving.

Scott McLean is along the border.

Scott, I will say, the border to Poland, where many of these refugees go.

I will say, ordinarily, a drive that would take a couple of hours from here or, you know, five or six hours from further east, is taking triple, quadruple, even more than that.

Those lines at the border, just people desperately trying to get out. And you're actually seeing them when they finally start to come across the line.

Tell me what they're telling you about these extremely traumatic trips they're going through.

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Erin. Yes, so we're at a train station about 30 minutes from the border. And this train here, that's just arrived and the people standing here have just arrived from Kyiv.

You mentioned things are late. This train is well over six hours late. The reason we can't go talk to people is because they still have to go through further passport controls on the Polish side.

We understand that the delays are when they have to go through the exit stamp process with the Ukrainians.

Of course, the Ukrainians are being extra careful about who they let out of the country because they don't want any men between 18 and 60 to leave.

I did meet a Ukrainian man who is 25 years old today. He lives here in Poland. And he was here to greet some of his family members.

I asked him if he'd go back to Ukraine. He said, well, not if things get better, but I will if they get worse.

Here's why.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I will go and fight. And I am ready to die for the future of my -- I will fight for democratic and freedom country, for the law. If it's a question of life and death in my country, my freedom, yes, I will go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCLEAN: And what's really remarkable, Erin, is that once this ordeal is over for these people to go into the main station where they will be greeted by a small army of firefighters that's there with food and water.

There are also plenty of volunteers as well trying to place people with housing and resources to make sure that they have a warm and safe place to stay for however long they're in Poland for -- Erin?

BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Scott.

Just the stories we're hearing from Kyiv, taking 30 hours to make that drive instead of 10. People literally running out of gas. We've heard those stories along the sides of the road.

That's what's happening here. You have this massive surge of people. And I think it is safe to say, it is just beginning.

Russian troops are now holding staff hostage at Chernobyl. That, of course, is the site of the world's worst nuclear disaster.

More on the breaking news after the break. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:42:22]

BASH: Russia's assault on Ukraine is leading to the type of destruction in a European capital we haven't seen in decades, almost a century.

Some 80 miles north of Ukraine's capital, Russian forces have seized control of the Chernobyl power plant, the site of the world's worst nuclear disaster.

Ukrainian officials say the staff is being held hostage. And the status of the site's nuclear waste storage facilities are unknown.

I want to bring in former director of National Intelligence, James Clapper.

So first question is about Chernobyl. How dangerous a situation is it?

JAMES CLAPPER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, it's very dangerous with Chernobyl. And we all recall the disaster in 1986. Just the fact that it's the protective zone is in contest between the Ukrainian protective force and Russians.

I also worry about the 15 other nuclear reactors across -- which are active across Ukraine in four different sites.

If one of those is struck, either intentionally or not, and the Russians, not known for their discriminate targeting, we could have a real disaster not only for Ukraine but the whole region to include, ironically enough, Russia.

BASH: One of the story lines right now is the way Ukrainians are doing everything they can to fight back. They are begging the U.S. and other allies for help.

Just from an intelligence point of view, what does that will to fight tell you, especially given the recent history the Biden administration seemed to get that dynamic really wrong in Afghanistan?

CLAPPER: We always had a challenge gauging the will to fight. During my war, in Southeast Asia, we profoundly underestimated the will to fight in the Vietcong and the North Vietnamese.

Fast forward 45 years, we profoundly underestimated the will to fight of the Taliban.

It's a different situation here. And the assessment was ahead of time that the Ukrainians would fight.

And what we're seeing, notably through great reporting of CNN, is they are standing and fighting. And inspiringly so. So in this case, I think we called the shot correctly.

BASH: When you were DNI, back in 2014, that was when Russia annexed Crimea. It was also part of Ukraine before that.

What's the difference between then and now when it comes to U.S. intelligence in the region?

CLAPPER: I think -- I would offer three explanations, real quickly.

[13:45:01]

First, the Russians, in 2014, were a lot more subtle. They had the little green men. In the case of Crimea, they already had 10,000 naval infantry on the Crimean peninsula even before they started.

The technology has improved dramatically, as we've seen by these really graphic overhead shots of the Russian vehicles lined up stem to stern on these compounds across the border from Ukraine.

And there's the realization eight years later that we must engage in this information operational warfare on our competition. And intelligence is a crucial tool in doing that.

That, to me, are the reasons why the difference between what intelligence did in 2014 versus now.

BASH: Director Clapper, we have a whole lot more to talk about. You'll be on with me Sunday on "STATE OF THE UNION." So we'll have a chance. I have a lot more questions for you.

Thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate it.

CLAPPER: Thanks, Dana.

BASH: Up next, more on how the Ukrainian people are standing up to Russian aggression. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: The Ukrainian people say they need more from the world, more than sanctions, more than boycotts, more than aid and more than prayers.

But while they wait for a level of help that may never come, we're witnessing a breathtaking resolve. People willing to face a nuclear superpower and do it on their own.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We just see a small group of people, and I'm hoping you could see them on our shot here. And they are kneeling and praying. Because right now, there's truly a sense of having no idea what is coming down the pipeline.

[13:50:08]

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Oh! I tell you what, I just heard a big bang right here behind me. I thought we shouldn't have done a live shot here.

(EXPLOSION)

CHANCE: There are big explosions taking place in Kyiv right now.

(GUNFIRE)

(SIRENS)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are an independent country and we are not the same as Russians. And we don't want to be a part of Russia or any other country. I'm getting very emotional and I cannot believe it is happening really.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is awful. You have to -- you have to ask guys, you next. Maybe not America, but it's Poland, other countries of Europe need to act immediately. It is not normal. People spend seven hours with a baby on a border.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

WARD: You seem remarkably strong given how scary the situation is.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We try to be brave because we have children and we don't want to show them that we are scared.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Andre, will you and your friends, under any circumstances, stay in Ukraine under Russian control.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely not. It is not going to happen.

Listen, they can't just stand aside and achieve thirty short-term goals here. They can't.

But with the long-term goals, they're not going to survive here. They are just not welcome here. Any household is going to fight against them.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Just in, a new audio recording has emerged purporting to show an exchange between a soldier on an island in the Black Sea and the Russian Navy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED RUSSIAN SOLDIER (voice-over) I am Russian military ship. Propose to put down arms or you will be hit. Acknowledge.

UNIDENTIFIED UKRAINIAN SOLDIER (voice-over): Russian warship, go (EXPLETIVE DELETED) yourself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Absolutely remarkable resolve by the Ukrainian people.

That does it for me this hour.

Please join me on Sunday for "STATE OF THE UNION. Among my guests, an exclusive interview with Jens Stoltenberg, the NATO secretary-general.

And an exclusive interview with Utah Senator Mitt Romney. That and much, much more on Sunday.

And stay with us right now. The news continues with Victor and Alisyn after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:57:19]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Victor Blackwell. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: And I'm Alisyn Camerota.

We have two breaking news stories.

First Ukraine, heavy fighting is reported on the main routes to Kyiv. U.S. officials fear that Ukraine's capital city could fall to Russia within days.

And any moment now, here in the U.S., President Biden is expected to announce his nominee to fill the upcoming Supreme Court vacancy.

BLACKWELL: CNN was the first to report his choice is Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson. And she will also speak after the president's remarks.

If confirmed, she'll be the first black woman to service on the court. Right now, she's a federal judge on the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals.

And when CNN broke the news of the president's intention, she was actually in the middle of oral arguments for several cases.

Let's talk about the historic nomination while we wait for the president.

We have CNN chief national affairs correspondent, Jeff Zeleny, CNN legal analyst and Supreme Court biographer, Joan Biskupic, CNN senior political correspondent, Abby Phillip, and CNN senior legal analyst, Laura Coates. Also CNN chief political analyst, Gloria Borger.

Welcome to you all.

Jeff, let me start with you with the decision, why Judge Brown Jackson? And this is a very important introduction. Both the experience and the personal narrative to the American people.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Victor, both of those are so important. And President Biden will appear in the cross hall of the White House, a spot that is reserved for historic and important moments like this one today.

And this is coming two years to the day after Joe Biden, as a presidential candidate, said he wanted and, indeed, planned to make his first Supreme Court pick an African-American woman.

He said he wanted to make history. He wanted to show the importance of that on the high court.

So for the last year, the president, in his off hours, has been spending time reading the writings and the opinions of several candidates. But from the beginning, Judge Jackson was one of the leading contenders.

Largely because of her breadth of experience. She's 51 years old but she's been on the bench for nearly a decade, appointed in 2013 by former President Barack Obama, and she's risen through the ranks.

She's been confirmed by the Senate three times, including just last year. And she garnered three Republican votes as well as all Democratic votes.

But I'm also told it was the personal interview, the one-on-one conversation that she had with President Biden earlier this month where things happened to have clicked.

So this is the decision in waiting. But it was not offered until last evening, I'm told. The president made a phone call to Judge Jackson and he extended the offer and she accepted the offer.

[13:59:56]

But shrouded in so much secrecy. As you said, she went to her day job this morning and appeared on the court of appeals bench hearing just a routine case.

But she will be in the White House with her family this afternoon.

And then the confirmation process begins. Democrats would like to see her confirmed by the April recess.