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Massive Explosions Light Up Night Sky Near Ukrainian Capital; Ukraine's Outgunned Forces Holding Capital of Kyiv for 3rd Day; CNN on Scene as Ukrainian Refugees Flee to Poland; Select Russian Banks Expelled from Vital Financial System; Ukraine's Outgunned Forces Hold Capital Of Kyiv For Third Day; World Rallies Behind Ukraine; Select Russian Banks Expelled From Vital Financial System; U.S. Firms Told To Brace For Possible Russian Cyber-Attacks. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired February 26, 2022 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[20:00:07]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM on this Saturday.

It is just after 3:00 a.m. in Kyiv, and I want to show you some of the most ominous sights so far this evening.

Two massive explosions within sight of our CNN crews and the capital of Kyiv. These flashes of light keep glowing in the distance.

The mayor of the town where this happened about 18 miles from the center of the capital says a petroleum storage depot was hit.

Here's new video closer to the scene. This is an area that has a large military airfield and multiple fuel tanks.

Quoting from the mayor now, "The enemy wants to destroy everything around, but he will not be successful. Our airfield was shelled as well, but we got it. It's under control of Ukraine."

The mayor adding, "The night will be difficult here as well in Kyiv, but we will stand our ground, and we will win because god is with us."

CNN's Alex Marquardt reported from a rooftop just moments after a blast hit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: : Since then, for the past seven, eight minutes there has been this pulsing glow in the distance.

You have to imagine that it is some kind of fire. It is a very eerie scene.

It is a location we've been looking at earlier today because there was a missile or a rocket that hit a residential building near that airport.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And here is where things stand with the war entering a fourth day. Russia's invasion is hitting, quote, "stiffer expected resistance from the Ukrainian military."

That's according to two senior U.S. officials speaking to CNN.

The Russians are also suffering heavier losses in personnel and aircraft than expected and face unexpected difficulties supplying their forces.

A senior defense official says Ukrainian air defenses have performed better than anticipated in preinvasion U.S. intelligence assessments.

And Russia has yet to establish air supremacy over Ukraine.

Ukraine now plans to close its borders to Russia and Belarus beginning Monday. Only Ukrainian citizens will be allowed to cross from those countries into Ukraine.

A U.N. official tells CNN more than 120,000 people have escaped Ukraine since the assault began.

And there are lines at a number of border crossings. Poland says 47,000 refugees crossed its borders yesterday alone. So much desperation right now taking place there.

I want to go straight to CNN's Matthew Chance at Ukraine's capital city, Kyiv.

What are you seeing there right now, Matthew?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Pam, well, a very tense situation, as you might expect in the Ukrainian capital.

Because, you know, the intelligence suggests and what Ukrainian officials suggest is that Russian forces are, you know, gathering their strength and poised to an attempt an assault on the city.

Those big flashes, those glows you saw Alex report on earlier, they're still taking place to a lesser extent now. But in the distance right behind me that is the Kyiv area, there's a strategic air base located there.

And that's a location where we believe Russian Special Forces were initially deployed, one of the locations, trying to establish a bridge head.

They could have used it to bring in more forces, more troops, more armor in order to surround the capital and stage that invasion of the Ukrainian city here of Kyiv.

That did not happen for whatever reason. Clearly, they met a great deal of resistance on the ground. It's not clear who is in control of that region right now.

But, you know, as the mayor of the -- of the local area said, you know, those big flares we saw lighting up the sky most likely to be fuel tanks, storage tanks possibly because of the close by air base that had been ignited.

Clearly, there's some sort of confrontation under way right now.

It's impossible for us to go and look because there's a curfew in place in this city, and it's not going to be lifted until Monday morning. So for Sunday there's going to be a curfew as well.

And that's a reflection how concerned authorities are here, that we're on the cusp of something very dangerous and very big, waiting, essentially, preparing many of the residents here for a big push potentially by the Russians to take over Kyiv -- Pam?

BROWN: It's seems eerie, so ominous, Matthew. And you have been following how Ukrainians are defending the city, taking up arms themselves, these civilians.

What has stuck out to you in talking with them and seeing what they've been able to do against the Russians?

CHANCE: It really is -- it really is quite astonishing to see the lengths to which the civilian population of the city have taken up arms.

[20:05:00]

There are thousands of weapons that have been distributed to the population, you know, for those people that want to take up weapons.

Today, I was with a group of territorial defense fighters, as they call themselves. And they were positioned in a northern suburb that had recently come under attack from a sort of Russian forward advance party.

They battled with those Russian troops. And they were dug in, in positions preparing for a much bigger push towards them.

And they had A.K.-47 rifles. They had, you know, rocket launchers. And they had petrol bombs they'd brought as a last-chance push to defend the city.

It was extraordinary the people that had taken up arms. There was a waiter, one was a banker, another was an economic analyst.

And they all said basically the same thing, which is that up until a few days ago, they were not even thinking of picking up arms to fight the Russians.

But then when they saw the invasion happen, something changed and they decided to make a stand -- Pam? BROWN: And a stand they have made. That is for sure. Now three days

into this, exceeding expectations even by U.S. intelligence assessments.

Matthew Chance, thank you so much.

I want to bring in CNN military analyst and retired U.S. Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton.

Colonel, our crew has seen these massive explosions on the outskirts of Ukraine's capital. Do these explosions foretell what's going to come there?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: You use that air campaign to pave the way for other infantry, assault troops, tanks coming through the city.

Those are the things they could be preparing for. And that is a normal course when it comes to planning and preparing an air campaign.

What they're probably also doing is getting intelligence support, the Russians are, for what they're doing.

The Ukrainians, of course, are watching this. As Matthew mentioned, the air defense has, you know, performed better.

The Ukrainian air defense has performed better than expected, which is a surprise because I know it was assessed to have some weaknesses in it as late as December, and here we are.

BROWN: Here we are.

If Russia does, indeed, launch a full siege tonight, which the government is warning is imminent, what could that look like in terms of shelling, bombing, aerial siege?

Help us get a better picture of that.

LEIGHTON: So it depends how many sorties, which is number of aircraft they would flyover a given target area.

What the Russians would do, if they follow anything similar to the American playbook, they would have developed a target list. They will sequence that target list.

So in the first set of targets you'll have things like oil storage tanks, communication facilities, potentially government institutions, things like that.

When we do it on the American side, we were very careful as to, you know, where we drop our bombs, what kind of end points they call them are, which is the exact coordinates where something would drop on a particular target.

But, you know, with the Russians they're not known to be as precise as we are when it comes to that, so you can expect a lot of collateral damage. That's the military euphemism to damage to civilian areas. And that is going to be a major potential problem here.

So we can see lots of loud explosions, lots of things going off. This will probably be combined with an artillery barrage because the Russians really like to use artillery.

There are historical reasons for that, and they will use this kind of in waves. It'll go from a certain set time to another set time, and they start these in the early morning hours.

BROWN: And what about government officials there, President Zelensky? There's obviously the possibility of paratroopers going there on the ground.

What about the risk they face?

LEIGHTON: Well, President Zelensky and his entourage and his ministers, his prime minister, they face a considerable risk.

One of the big things that you always have to look at is what the enemy's goals are. And in this particular case, Russia's goals are to decapitate in a figurative sense the government of Ukraine.

That means capturing Zelensky, potentially killing him. That is something that should be avoided at all costs. And his protective detail will need to be on their guard to make sure that this doesn't happen.

BROWN: The former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine just told me last hour, even if Russians have a short-term victory, he does not believe Russia can hold Kyiv, can hold onto Ukraine.

[20:10:02]

What is the end goal here?

LEIGHTON: Well, I agree with the ambassador.

And I think that, you know, one of the key things to look at here is, when you invade a country, you don't need as many forces as you do to hold a country.

We kind of found that out in Iraq on the U.S. side. It took a long time to pacify that country. And some would argue it was never really properly pacified.

But the Russians face a much more serious problem in Ukraine potentially because the entire population is against them now.

The one thing they've done -- and it seems to be the exact opposite of what president Putin said his goals are -- everybody now hates what the Russians have done.

And as a result, they will fight and defend their country.

BROWN: They've galvanized so many people. And even in Russia, we're seeing protests, which is significant. LEIGHTON: Absolutely.

BROWN: All right, thank you so much, Colonel Cedric Leighton.

We'll likely see a lot more of this. Ukrainian families desperately making their way to the Polish border. You've been seeing the images of gridlock as drivers scramble to outrun the Russians.

And it's an emotional scene for those who make it out.

CNN's Arwa Damon is on the other side of the border in Poland tonight -- Arwa?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Pam.

This bus has just arrived. Oh, and we can see some sort of a reunion happening here.

This bus just arrived from the Ukrainian border. And there's been a steady stream of buses like this coming into this parking lot that has now turned into something of a makeshift reception center.

These people, the vast majority of them, would have walked for hours trying to just get across.

And you'll notice that most of them are women and children. And that is because men between the ages of 18 and 60 are not being permitted to leave.

All of these people here that you see holding up these signs, they're all volunteers. And on these cardboard pieces of paper are written the names of various different cities that people who are disembarking from these buses can get rides to, places where they can find free accommodation.

One thing that is quite eerie when it comes to being here is just how quiet it is. People, you can see them as they're coming off the bus, are completely and totally shell-shocked.

And we have been talking to a number of people here and also at the train station.

Many of them still struggling to comprehend exactly what it is that has happened, how it is that less than a week ago they were able to wake up in their own homes, and now parents are having to figure out how to describe this to their children.

One mother we met as we were speaking to her she was smiling, and she said, "I have to smile because it's the only way that I can control my hysteria."

And it's really quite jarring when you think about the reality that all of these children who are here, these mothers, wives, they all said good-bye to husbands, to fathers, to sons who have had to remain behind in Ukraine. So many families torn apart.

We've also met so many people here on this side of the border in Poland who say that their loved ones, their elderly are still inside, that they are unable to make the journey this far.

No one knows what's going to happen at this stage. No one knows what's going to be happening next.

And you really see just how sobering that reality is when you look at people's faces as they're coming off these buses, as they're trying to figure out exactly where they're going to go.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Our thanks to Arwa Damon in Poland.

Just so many people suffering right now. So many people uncertain about their futures.

A short time ago, the White House announced it was expelling selected Russian banks from SWIFT That is the high security network that links thousands of financial institutions around the world.

It is yet one more economic sanction designed to pressure Vladimir Putin to end his assault on Ukraine.

Let's go straight to Jeff Zeleny at the White House.

Jeff, it was just two days ago that President Biden said that the E.U. wasn't there yet on moving forward with SWIFT.

Now we're seeing a targeted selection of Russian banks as it pertains to SWIFT What happened?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Pamela, the joint statement from the U.S. and European leaders as well as Canada was really significant this evening.

When it is targeting those select Russian banks, essentially expelling them from the global financial community. This has not happened before, and what they are trying to do is isolate Russia.

But even more importantly than that are the actions that are going to be taken to the Russian central bank. And all of the cash reserves, some $600 billion, many are held here in the West.

[20:15:04]

The U.S. and European leaders are trying to essentially knock the Ruble into free fall, essentially try and block the Russian central bank from propping up the economy there, which it has been doing throughout all of these endless rounds of sanctions.

So that perhaps is the most significant new development here as well as the SWIFT financial system, which is just essentially it connects a global bank. Some 11,000 financial institutions are members of this. So when you transfer money, et cetera. So Russian banks will not be able to do that.

And also there'll be a transatlantic international task force to target wealthy Russians who have luxury yachts, luxury apartments and use golden passports.

Those are the things that essentially allow you to become a citizen of another country to either hide your wealth or escape Russia.

So these are the most traumatic sanctions, punishments we've seen from the U.S. and European Union.

And it is remarkably how quickly this came about. Because, Pamela, as you said President Biden was asked about this only on Thursday and he said the European leaders are not there yet.

They certainly are there now because of the fighting, the shelling, the attacks we are seeing in Kyiv. That is why these developments are happening.

Of course, this is all coming as the U.S. is pledging even more military assistance. The president last night signing an order to send $350 million more of ammunitions.

Germany doing that as well, reversing a long-standing process or policy to not send ammunition to conflict zones.

So, Pamela, changing dramatically. But I can tell you, the White House, the National Security Council keeping a close eye on Kyiv tonight, obviously fearful it could fall -- Pamela?

BROWN: Jeff Zeleny, live from the White House tonight, thank you.

We all have questions about the situation in Ukraine. Send me yours through Twitter or Instagram. And I'm going to try to pose them to the experts joining me tonight and tomorrow.

Our breaking news coverage of the Russian invasion of Ukraine continues in a moment. Our Erin Burnett is live from the Ukrainian/Hungarian border in just a moment.

Stay with us. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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[20:21:25]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So we are afraid. My husband is still there. We'll fight even if Europe doesn't help us.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BROWN: Thousands of Ukrainians are trying to get to safety as the violence picks up. Roads and train stations have been swamped with people.

Many are women and children leaving husbands, fathers, sons and brothers behind to fight the Russian assault.

The latest count puts the number of people who have fled at more than 120,000.

CNN's Erin Burnett spent the day with some of them. She joins us now live from Ukraine's border with Hungary.

Erin, you began your journey to cross the border in Lviv 20 hours ago. Tell us what happened when you headed for Poland?

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR, "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT": So the first thing we did, we got up this morning, we'd been down for maybe an hour, awoken by air sirens down in the bomb shelter. That's how it is now. And then we began our journey to the Polish border.

And first, we passed the train station, and it is just hordes of people. Just hordes of people. It is indescribable, people rushing to get on buses.

And as you said it is primarily women and children. The men are - obviously, they're not Ukrainians trying to get out. And trying to rush on those buses to get over the border.

When we went to the border, we were stopped dead about 29 miles from the exact border.

Sorry about that.

And at that point, it just came to a complete halt.

Over the next two hours we went about -- 90 minutes about half a mile. So it was about 57 hours to pass the border with Poland.

Pamela, it was incredible. There were people, they would get there and stopped. And some would take Volts, which they use here instead of Uber, and get dropped off.

And then they're walking, women with babies on the front of them, people with pets, elderly women, people with toddlers and children. And they're getting ready to walk 30 miles.

I find it hard to describe what we saw. And I think the numbers coming out of the U.N. are low from what we've seen at that border and others throughout the day. So that's what we saw.

When we finally decided, OK, we're going to turn around and try a different border, we turned around and there was a sort of place to stop.

We went in and I ran into a woman. Her English was absolutely perfect. She was there with her two children. She and her husband had spent the past couple of days to the border to cross.

When they got there, of course, they knew about the martial law. They knew he was in the range, but he had work papers in Poland so they thought he'd be able to cross.

So the whole family turned around. And she started weeping. And these are the emotional scenes.

I don't think there's a person here covering the story who hasn't felt very emotional seeing these people fleeing their homes and going to maybe in some cases family but, in others, they don't know where they're going.

And they're just trying to get out and they're sitting in their cars, if their lucky, and they're walking and spending days.

And they're out sleeping right now in this extremely cold weather.

BROWN: I mean, it's just hard to even comprehend. Erin, you did a beautiful job describing what you witnessed.

I'm thinking of that image that you said of mothers holding their babies and walking 30 miles a road to uncertainty, not knowing what lies ahead or perhaps leaving behind a husband, a father to fight in Ukraine.

[20:24:59]

It is just unbelievable what is taking place right now, and the humanitarian crisis.

You are close to the Hungary border. Tell us more about what it is like where you are right now, Erin.

BURNETT: So what happened was, Pamela, to get here, it took another 16, 17 hours. And we passed various border crossings. We also -- one checkpoint alone took us over six hours because there's military checkpoints in the towns.

Men are building up concrete, putting up tires, presumably if they need to stop a Russian invasion. So you have that. And lines and lines of people all of them trying to head for the borders.

And right now, we went by the Polish border, Slovakia border, and now we're here at the Hungary border, which is behind me about a kilometer, and we're going to cross it after this.

But I'll say this, and I think it's really important. The Polish border is in crisis right now. And they've opened it up and said you don't need papers or passports.

It's not they aren't welcoming. They cannot handle the volume of people, the sheer hordes of people coming to these borders.

This border we're at right now is much more remote, Pamela. It's harder to get to. And it is -- by far, it appears to be the easiest border. It took us 20 hours to get here.

But when we talk about what people can do, Hungary, of course, used to have visas for Ukrainians who want to come in. They waived that. They said you just need a passport.

But there's more that can be done to raise awareness, that people know that they can come here, so they can get people to these borders. Because they're remote. And if you don't have a car, it's hard to get to them.

And there are just things that can be done to alleviate the pressure and get people out of the country more quickly.

Because on the inside, you feel a palpable fear and a palpable crisis building that people are not getting out who need to get out.

BROWN: That's just frightening.

And this comes, of course, what you just laid out, comes as the government in Ukraine is warning of an imminent Russian assault on the capital city there. People are desperate. They want to get out.

Erin Burnett, thank you very much for bringing us the latest. Excellent reporting there from the Ukrainian-Hungarian border.

And, look, we all want to help right now. Organizations around the world they're on the ground in Ukraine, neighboring countries to help those in need with shelter, food, water and additional aid.

For more information about how you can help humanitarian efforts in Ukraine, go to CNN.com/impact.

We'll be right back.

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[20:30:58]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: We are following breaking news out of Ukraine this weekend. And just into CNN, some new video that I have to warn you is graphic. Take a look. This part is far away. So look closely. It's some sort of heavy military vehicle on the streets of Kyiv, suddenly steering into a car and crushing it.

Here's a look closer up right after it happened bystanders trying to help an elderly man out of that crushed car. Other videos of the incident showed that before the collision, a firefight broke out between individuals in another military truck.

A video taken by bystanders shows at least two people down, one is wearing a military uniform with the Ukrainian flag near that military truck. And CNN can confirm these videos were taken on Friday in Kyiv. Ukrainian officials claimed to have thwarted an attempt by Russian soldiers to penetrate the city and Russian shoulders -- soldiers have reportedly put on Ukrainian military uniforms and seized a truck. If true, this would contradict Russian claims that they are only targeting military forces and not striking residential areas.

And many Ukrainians, young and old, have chosen to stay in fight among them. Former Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko who spoke to CNN's Fredricka Whitfield earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETRO POROSHENKO, FORMER UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: Now, it's a decisive moment for my nation and every single person make a decision for themselves. The millions of Ukrainian not only stay in here, but they are fighting against Russian aggression with a very high risk to be killed. And I think that this is normal when all Ukrainian are protecting our country, all Ukrainian are demonstrating Putin miscalculation about blitzkrieg.

All Ukrainian is demonstrating that they are fighting against Russia. And when Putin said that Ukrainian will meet Russian troops with the flowers, the only flowers for Russian soldiers is their Molotov cocktail, which was even (INAUDIBLE) preparing for protecting our cities against Russian tank.

So, this is very natural for Ukrainian to protect our nation and that's why it is so difficult to Putin to fight big Russia, to fight against absolutely peaceful European country and European nation like Ukraine and Ukrainian. So, I think that this is a good idea to protect Kyiv.

Every person has a -- has a possibility to be afraid. But when you're protecting your nation, this is give you a unique opportunity to be above your fear. And I think that we tried to do our best to be above the fear.

[20:35:06]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: And I did hear you say that this is a time for you and everyone to rise above any fears. But do you believe that you are potentially giving up your life today over the next few days to help save your country?

POROSHENKO: Look, I hate the purpose works, because people don't believe in the purpose words. But if you're staying Kyiv when it is -- when you have a Russian troops around, you should be ready for this tragical [PH] development of the situation.

If I'm ready, unfortunately, yes. I hate the idea to be my country occupied. And I think that we should do our best to protect the nation, to protect the nation against Russian aggressor definitely bring the risk of your own life. Everybody here, all the young and old people fully understand that we have this race.

Somebody has a choice to go abroad. Somebody had the choice to be the refugee on the some regions of Ukraine. But many, the biggest part, make a decision to take the rifle and to protect the nation. I'm proud for these people, I'm proud for this country, and I'm proud to be Ukrainian.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And a lot of people are proud of Ukrainians right now. People across the world are rallying behind Ukraine and condemning Vladimir Putin and Russia's war.

Up next, a look at some of the solidarity protests.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's freezing out here but look at all these people. Look what they stand for, they stand for freedom and putting Putin away. He's an evil man. And we could stand here in the cold, we could do anything.

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[20:40:01]

(CROWD CHANTING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Protesters taking to the streets in cities around the world, crying out against Russia's invasion of Ukraine. This is Tel Aviv.

And Brussels protesters chanted their demands for peace outside the Russian embassy.

Across India, students gathered calling for Russia to leave Ukraine.

And in D.C. protesters congregated again today in front of the White House, as you see, in solidarity with Ukraine.

Joining me now CNN contributor Jill Dougherty in Moscow where she served almost a decade as CNN's Moscow bureau chief. And Kimberly St. Julian-Varnon, a PhD student at the University of Pennsylvania, studying Russian and Soviet Union history. She studied for a time in Ukraine as well.

Jill, I'm going to start with you. There have been these protests in Russia, thousands taking to the streets, many facing arrest. How are most Russians reacting to this aggression in Ukraine?

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: You know, I think if you look at the polling, you'd have to say that probably the majority, somewhere around half of the public does support this operation. Now, why they support it is because they feel that Russians are under attack. And they're getting that picture from, you know, the Russian state media.

But there are these people who are showing up protesting on the streets of Moscow, St. Petersburg, and many other cities, it varies every day. It's been 50 cities and 25, 26, but they're out there. And they are usually very quickly detained, arrested, and shut down.

And we've even had some people who went over to the Ukrainian embassy here in Moscow and laid flowers. But these are very small numbers. And, yet, if you go to social media, and maybe we can talk about that later, you go to social media, and there is a lot more criticism and pushback, especially from young people.

BROWN: And Russia's assault has been slower moving because of Ukrainian resistance shell, but that is not appearing on TVs there in Russia, right?

DOUGHERTY: Correct. Yes, no, it's completely like through the looking glass image. The CNN major media in the West have live shots and pictures from Kyiv and other Ukrainian cities with those attacks. And yet in on the Russian media, it's really kind of -- I would call it old-fashioned kind of stodgy almost Soviet coverage, which is military spokesperson delivering his report about what's happening. And also, again, it's referring to these breakaway regions.

So they're -- the message, I think, is to consolidate the picture here for Russians, that things are going OK They're hoping that it will be a quick operation, but it appears that it's not going to be. And, you know, if there are Russian soldiers killed, as we know there are, but there are no figures at this point. That could have an effect back here at home.

BROWN: Yes, what will happen when those body bags arrived back in Russia?

Kimberly, you not only study Russian and Eastern Europe history, you live for a time in Ukraine. So you have said this invasion is about expanding Putinism. What do you mean by that?

KIMBERLY ST. JULIAN-VARNON, PHD STUDENT OF RUSSIAN HISTORY, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA: So, I think we hear a lot of conversations about Putin expanding some old idea of the Soviet Union. But what I argue is that this is Putin reliving this Russian Imperial idea and eastern Ukraine is key to that idea, because of Ukraine's important role in Russian imperial history, but also Soviet history.

So, when I say this war is existential, it is because Ukraine cannot survive if Putin gets his way because Putin wants a Ukraine that is part of Russia at this point.

BROWN: We've been getting viewer questions and one of them has been, Kimberly, do you think all this outrage, especially in Russia, will finally be the downfall of Putin and he will be removed from power? Another person adding, could there be a coup in Russia? What do you say to those questions?

[20:45:14]

JULIAN-VARNON: I think Putin has had almost 20 years -- over 20 years to maintain an iron fist over Russia. His authoritarianism has significantly changed the public landscape of Russia. I don't suspect a coup will happen. But I do think this hopefully, will be the last straw for Putinism, because we've never seen economic sanctions like this before. And they're hitting the oligarchs and Putin where it hurts in their pocket. So we'll see. But I wouldn't put any plans for a coup any place high up, but I do think Putin, his role in the international arena, will be significantly diminished.

BROWN: What do you think, Jill?

DOUGHERTY: You know, I was talking to a young person, a young Russian, and her mother today, and they were talking about this divide between the younger generation, and the older generation, and the older generation remembers World War Two, they remember the neo -- the fascist, the real fascist. And now, you know, Putin's message is Ukraine is a neo-fascist country.

So, among the older Russians, there's actually fear, you know, that they are going to be hurt, that somebody will come and attack them, but the younger people don't have that.

And I think if you -- if you boil it down to where they really feel, this would be the more educated big city, but it's not exclusively that. They feel that Russia, because of this, is going to be so isolated, that they won't have an opportunity to really be part of Europe, that they will be cut off. Russia will be isolated in many different ways. And the chance to, you know, study and travel and be modern Europeans will be taken away from them.

Now, what does that mean politically? Hard to say. These are young people, small, it's about 9, 10 percent of the population. A lot of them don't vote. But, you know, they're going to be around longer than the generation of President Putin. And so will that change Russia? I don't know. But I agree with Kimberly, I wouldn't look for any coup immediately, but I do think society is changing.

Jill Dougherty, Kimberly St. Julian-Varnon, tthank you very much for offering your perspective in this important conversation.

And up next, how to punish Putin and whether the serious sanctions will actually stick.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you have a -- when you see a child, like, beaten in your neighbor's yard, you don't just put sanctions on the person who's doing the beating, right? You just go and kick his ass.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:50:49]

BROWN: As we've reported, the White House and European Union nations will expel certain Russian banks from the high security network known as SWIFT. The White House says the goal is to ensure the war is a quote strategic failure for Vladimir Putin.

I want to bring in CNN national security analyst, Juliette Kayyem. She was an assistant homeland security, secretary under President Obama and is now a professor at the Harvard Kennedy School.

So, what does that mean, Juliette, a strategic failure because we heard President Biden say just a couple of days ago, that this isn't about deterring Putin right now, in the near-term? So, what does it mean for the long term?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: So, I think we have to look at this war now on many fronts, of course, the most significant and the most, you know, heart -- the most tragic is, of course, a military conflict that we're seeing in Ukraine right now with Russia's aggression. But there's -- you know, I was -- I was writing it down financial, diplomatic, legal, cyber, covert, humanitarian efforts all going on simultaneously. So it can seem really confusing.

So, when the President says strategic, he's essentially meaning all the other aspects that we can put pressure on Russia and Putin that are outside the battlefield. And one of those ways is, of course, the financial ways, which is -- you saw a lot of activity about that today.

And I think, you know, there's different specifics to each of the pieces that they did swift in terms of impacting transactions, which just for those watching, the impact of that will probably be felt on Monday that it's going to be Monday, when people get nervous about whether they're -- they can have -- people in Russia, whether they can have bank transactions.

But the bigger piece of this that that can't get lost is what we call ally management. The extent to which neither President Biden -- there's no distance between the allies at this stage. And part of that is because of the devastation in Ukraine. And I think that's really important that it doesn't seem like the U.S. is leading this. In fact, most of their -- our press conferences are after NATO or E.U. press conferences.

BROWN: Right. That's clearly part of the strategy to have this united front. The concern now though, is of course, what will Russia do to retaliate, potentially? The U.S. is warning that the cyber-attacks that Ukraine has suffered could be headed our way. If Russia were to cyber-attack the U.S., how bad could it get?

KAYYEM: Yes. It could get -- I mean, the capacity for him to do this is certainly could be there. Although, we have we have many defenses that are both covert and overt in terms of protecting our critical infrastructure. There's certainly been a lot of work done to basically get our critical infrastructure ready.

And the United States are critical infrastructures owns -- about 70 or 80 percent of it is owned by the private sector. So it takes these private public partnerships. I think the bigger concern in this atmosphere is that there's, sort of, a downstream impact to what Russia is doing in Ukraine that will impact one of the NATO countries to the extent that there will be a question about whether this is an attack, right? Whether it is actually an attack under the NATO agreement. And no one really knows this is a brand-new world.

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I think NATO and the United States and the White House have been pretty smart about not being clear what would constitute a cyber- attack. They do not want to, sort of, disclose to Russia. This is OK and that's not OK. So, there's a focus on critical infrastructure and other defenses, but this is -- this is really new, in terms of that combination of military and cyber warfare.

BROWN: Yes, certainly you don't want to get into a situation where you're engaged with -- against Russia in cyber wars, right? That is certainly not a situation that the U.S. wants to be in.

Juliette Kayyem, thank -- go ahead.

KAYYEM: Thank you. No, that's it.

BROWN: Thank you.

Kyiv City under siege tonight. We're going to have more on that after this break.

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