Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Outgunned Ukrainians Repel Russian Military Convoy On Road To Kyiv; Ukrainians Try To Hold Off Russian Invaders For A Fourth Day; Interview With Rep. Brendan Boyle (D-PA); Putin Announces Placing His Nuclear Deterrent Forces On High Alert Ahead Of Monday's Talks With Ukraine; The Red Carpet Rolls Out For Tonight's SAG Awards. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired February 27, 2022 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That we hear every evening here.

OKSANA MARKAROVA, UKRAINIAN AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: We are not ready to surrender, and we will defend our country and the movement.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You work in an office but now you're defending your city?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct. I didn't think I would join this unit just two days ago.

SEN. MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): The world is behind the people of Ukraine. The Russian government is a pariah.

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This is a time to be vocal and condemn the actions of President Putin.

OLAF SCHOLZ, GERMAN CHANCELLOR (through translator): Very soon, the Russian leadership will feel what a high price they will have to pay.

ROMNEY: And that's what we're seeing, a small, evil, feral-eyed man who is trying to shape the world in the image where once again Russia would be an empire and that's not going to happen.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: I'm Pamela Brown in Washington, you are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world.

A day of triumph and tragedy in Ukraine. The capital city of Kyiv remains free and is bracing for a full-scale Russian invasion for a fourth night. These are troubling images taken this morning, a three- mile-long Russian military convoy on a road that heads to the capital. The technology company MAXAR says the convoy includes tanks, artillery and infantry vehicles. And on Ukraine's southern coast, a city has fallen. Berdyansk has a

population of 100,000 and a small naval base. This CNN video from November shows some of those operations as tensions were rising with Russia.

And the grim news comes as Ukraine's Interior Ministry releases the number of civilian casualties since Russia launched its attack on Thursday. 352 civilians including at least 14 children have been killed so far. Nearly 1700 civilians injured, 116 of them children.

Some of the fiercest fighting is in Ukraine's largest -- second largest city but it is also giving inspiration to the Ukrainian people, A Ukrainian commander says dozens of Russian soldiers surrendered complaining of fuel shortages and low morale.

And we also saw incredible video from the outskirts of Kyiv where Ukrainian forces destroyed Russian armored personnel carriers and other vehicles. Delegations from both sides will meet tomorrow on the border between Ukraine and Belarus. And Ukraine says a surrender is not on the table.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRES. VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY, UKRAINE (through translator): I will say this frankly, as always I don't really believe in the result of this meeting. But let them try. So then later on no citizen of Ukraine would have any doubt that I, the president, did not try to stop the war when I had a chance. Small as it was.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Ukraine's capital, a city of nearly three million people, is very much on war footing. Streets are empty, security is on high alert and a proud and defiant population awaits Russia's next move.

CNN's Alex Marquardt takes us on a tour.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Ukraine's capital is bracing for the worst, checkpoints with armed forces, sandbags stacked in front of the mayor's office in central Kyiv.

(On-camera): There are no Russian forces in Kyiv right now according to the mayor but there have been battles against them and the mayor says that large groups of Russian saboteurs were destroyed overnight.

(Voice-over): In the physical heart of Ukraine's 2014 revolution, the Maidan, the streets are deserted.

(On-camera): And it was exactly here, eight years ago, that Ukrainian citizens rose up against a pro-Russian government, a pro-Russian president, and ousted him and that is something that President Putin has complained about for years. Now his own forces are descending on this city, encircling it in order

to try to topple this government and replace the president with a puppet who would answer to President Putin.

(Voice-over): Now, four days into this Russian invasion, there is mounting evidence of Russia's attempt to encircle this city, fighting in every direction around, plumes of smoke marking the areas of the most intense fighting.

Living in this city these days is not for the faint-hearted. While we're out, right on cue, another deep boom breaks through the silence. Below the Maidan, in the tunnels of the city's metro which also act as bomb shelters, the arteries of the city are also deserted, a pinging only adding to the eeriness.

[19:05:00]

Kyiv has held strong for longer than some of the more dire predictions which saw it falling within 24 to 48 hours. Optimism has grown with the Russians' inability to take any real control here, but everyone knows it is far too soon for any confidence.

Alex Marquardt, CNN, Kyiv.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And joining us now, CNN military analyst General Wesley Clark. He was NATO's Supreme Allied commander and he's now a senior fellow at the UCLA Burkle Center.

Hi, General Clark, good to have you back on the show. So a town on Ukraine's southern coast has fallen today, possibly a small naval base there. How significant of a Russian victory is this?

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: That's not really significant, and in some cases, the Ukrainian troops you pulled out of small towns just to prevent their destruction, so that's not significant. The significant battles are the big cities Kyiv and Kharkiv, and there what we have to understand is that the Ukrainian resistance has been phenomenal, it's brilliant. They've got really great morale, spirit, training, these Ukrainians want to fight Russia, and push them back. And they're determined to do so.

But thus far haven't met the main body of the Russian force. That long convoy was part of that main body that we saw just a moment ago. The main body slogan in part because at the top level, I think Vladimir Putin didn't want to put all its main forces in there. I think he believed he could intimidate and scare them to death, putting the forward detachments in. Well, that didn't work.

Also, the ground is not cooperating. It's -- it should be frozen solid. They should just be able to drive anywhere, but they can't. That ground is not frozen so they're really road-bound, and so you've got thousands of vehicles on these narrow roads and they're under fire and so they stop. The third thing to understand about these Russian forces is they're not very well-trained. As I look at the forces and what I know of the Russian military philosophy.

It's really strong at the top, with lots of (INAUDIBLE), lots of good equipment, but at the bottom, they don't respect their individual soldiers, they don't train them well. A lot of these soldiers that were captured they didn't even know they were in Kyiv or in Ukraine. They were told they were going on a training exercise. So you've got a lot of problems at the bottom.

At the top, well, the generals wanted to win but they weren't give the permission to win big early, so they're frustrated with Putin and now they're just -- I think they're just boiling over with frustration at this nuclear alert. They don't see any purpose of it, and it's ridiculous. They don't harbor the sense of revenge against Ukraine than maybe Putin does. So I think Putin is building some real problems for himself with his own military commanders.

BROWN: Right. And you're seeing some of the soldiers there on the ground from Russia already surrendering from low morale, not having the supplies they need, but it is concerning when you look at the fact that there's so much more military might that Russia could deploy in Ukraine. There is something that our CNN crews had spotted yesterday, a vacuum bomb. It was a vacuum bomb launcher. Many human rights organizations oppose its use.

How much do you think Putin is displaying this for military theater, perhaps as a deterrence, or more concerning, do you think barbaric weapons like this could be used as an escalation by Russia since it's not achieving what it wants so far?

CLARK: Well, I think Vladimir Putin is not irrational or out of his mind or whatever as some people want to suggest, but this toss system is not only incredibly devastating but it's also a terror weapon. It should be banned by international law and it probably will be if it gets used here, or never used again, because once people see it, human rights activists are already against it. These things create a huge wall of flame that sucks the air out of peoples' lungs. It's a weapon of terror.

I think he would use it if he can't get what he wants in Kyiv, and this is the problem. We haven't hit the main force. You know, in the United States Army, we call artillery the king of battle. Well, the Russians use two, three times as much artillery as the Americans do by doctrine. So that artillery is there. There were thousands of artillery and rockets that were lined up outside Ukraine's borders.

We've seen scattered rocket fire, we've heard some artillery, but we haven't seen the mass fires that would be reflective of Russian doctrine. When that force closes, if it closes on Kyiv, and if Putin gives a word, it's going to be a lot of destruction.

[19:10:06]

Can Kyiv hold out? Yes, provided that the defenders have the right replenishment. They need the Javelin missile, they need stingers and they needed night vision goggles so they can go out at night, outside Kyiv and take out those Russian forces that are staged to try to encircle the city.

BROWN: If they have what they need, do you think there's a realistic chance that Ukrainians could hold off the Russians that Kyiv won't fall to the Russians?

CLARK: I think that ultimately the end to this thing is going to be political military. I think that if they continue to impede the Russian forces, if they continue to inflict casualties, if the world comes to their aid, I think you're going to have such an outcry against Vladimir Putin that he's going to be driven out, maybe out of office, but certainly out of Ukraine.

But that's in the future. Right now, President Zelenskyy is doing a magnificent job. He's holding the country together. He's handling the threats, I understand he was called by one of the Belarus leaders yesterday and told you better surrender or else, and, you know, he just told them to get lost. And this is typical the way the Russians are going to work.

Now, there are some concern that Belarus is going to bring its soldiers in and so this would add to the problem in Kyiv, but I do believe that they're doing a great job, but I think the world is going to come to a crisis point at some point. If he brings out heavy artillery in, can we really stand aside and see a nation just subjected to that fire in a city of two or three million people wiped out?

I don't think so. And I think Putin is going to get, he's going to get the resistance that he hasn't seen before when he moves forward. So I think big days to come on this.

BROWN: Quickly, General, I do want to get to one of our viewer questions. We've been receiving so many and one of the key questions, and it's sort of -- is perfect for what you just teed up there is if the pro-West Volodymyr Zelensky is killed or executed, how would the global horror of seeing a democratically elected European leader killed change the U.S. and NATO's policy to not intervene militarily in this conflict?

CLARK: Well, President Biden has said we're not going to intervene militarily, but maybe we would intervene on a humanitarian basis. Not through NATO but to a coalition of the willing, because this is a significant change in the geostrategic order of the world. If Vladimir Putin gets away with this, the gates of hell are open really. Every dictator will seek nuclear weapons. Everybody will believe he can just overrun his neighbors.

The whole international basis of rule of law will be overturned. So these are huge stakes here, and the fact that this is a powerful nation of over 44 million people, the fact is it's stronger militarily than most of its NATO allies, our NATO allies, in Europe, and so the time ultimately may come when the administration has to say, I've got to reconsider. That time is not now, that's a risk the president will have to take, and I'm sure his people are looking at it very closely right now and considering it right now. It looks good, Zelensky is strong. Things are fine. We're getting

resupplies in. There's going to be trouble ahead, I think, if Putin continues to mass his forces.

BROWN: All right, General Wesley Clark, we'll leave it there. Thank you for your time.

CLARK: Thank you.

BROWN: CNN crews have canvassed Ukraine, recording the plight of people who have had war thrust upon them.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh files this report from a strategic city in southern Ukraine near the Black Sea.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR (voice-over): The bridge here hasn't been raised for as long as they can remember. But neither has the sleepy port town of Mykolaiv been invaded.

The clack-clack is likely exchanges with Russian paratroopers who we're told landed nearby. Locals struggling to keep up with their world here collapsing and soldiers edgy.

The fear here, Russian saboteurs like these two suspects, thrown to the ground by soldiers. Then the sirens go off. And it is back in the basement for mothers and cats.

[19:15:03]

Here the noise of what Russia would do to these towns in the name of subjugation and geopolitical gain. Police trying to turn lights off it seems in businesses that closed in a hurry. Life persisting caught between hoping this is short lived and wondering if it may go on forever.

Behind it all, in empty streets the fear they may be overrun. And whether each huge blast would be the decisive strike that lets Putin's troops enter. The shelling just went on and on.

The next morning, we saw where it hit. It's likely a missile tore up these Ukrainian tanks, but nobody left, feels broken.

(On-camera): How do you feel?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good. Very good.

WALSH: Good. Yes?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

WALSH: They tried to come into the town. He is saying the Russians tried to come in last night but the town of Mykolaiv beat them. And you can see what it looks like here. He is saying look around here, I'm asking how do you feel living here looking at all this. This is where you live, right? As I look at this, look at these windows that are blown out.

Yes, so the words of Russian ministers who have been saying that they are not going to hit civilian infrastructure here, he is repeating them back to me saying look, look at this, they say that they are not hitting civilian infrastructure, look at this damage around here.

(Voice-over): Putin's rockets may have shattered glass, but not dented the anger here. As they take stock, you have to ask yourself, why Moscow ever thought that these towns would gladly be occupied and what Russia's end goal is.

Tempers fray here. Blood has been spilled. But despite Russia's overwhelming firepower, they did not pass.

Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Mykolaiv, Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Send me your questions about the situation in Ukraine through Twitter or Instagram and I'll try to run them by the experts who are joining me tonight. Already I have just received so many excellent questions from our viewers and we're trying to pose them to those who know best right now.

And up next, strength in numbers. Protesters standing with Ukraine in cities all over the world tonight, plus Democratic Congressman Brendan Boyle joins me live, sharing stories from the many Ukrainians living in his district. I also want to know if he thinks it's time to punish Russia's energy sector even if it hurts the American economy.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:21:53]

BROWN: We have new video just coming into CNN I want to share with you right now, Ukraine claiming to have carried out successful drone strikes against Russian invaders. The Ukrainian armed forces just released this footage, apparently showing the destruction of Russian military vehicles about 60 miles northwest of the capital city. The drones are apparently Turkish made and have only been in Ukraine's arsenal since last year.

And across the globe, demonstrators are out in force to support Ukraine from Prague, to Madrid, Washington, D.C. to St. Petersburg, Russia. Look at these crowds on your screen. Anti-war protesters hitting the streets to denounce the Russian invasion on a sovereign country unprovoked. And Russia, those demonstrations have gotten nearly 6,000 people arrested so far. And some of the United States's closest allies enacted a slew of new punishments against Russia today.

The European Union announced new sanctions it says will block more than half of Russia's central bank reserves. All E.U. air space is now closed to Russian planes and Russian news outlets Russia Today and Sputnik are banned from the E.U. Joining me now to discuss is Democratic Congressman Brendan Boyle of

Pennsylvania. He led a delegation to Brussels last week for an emergency meeting of the NATO Parliamentary Assembly.

Hi, Congressman. At this point, what do you think can stop Vladimir Putin?

REP. BRENDAN BOYLE (D-PA): Well, great to be with you. I wish that the circumstances were different. I think that Mr. Putin must be very surprised. First, by the resistance that he has received in Ukraine, the fact that Russia has not made far greater progress, almost every intelligence expert both within and outside the government thought that Russia would be in a lot stronger position in Ukraine right now, several days in.

But then the second thing is Putin must be very surprised by the world-wide resistance, reaction and outrage that he and his country are now facing. He and his government are being treated like the pariahs that they are by the entire world community and that will have real consequences on he personally, the fellow, his fellow travelers, the oligarchs, as well as, sadly, innocent Russian people as well.

BROWN: But you are still seeing places like China not forcefully condemning Russia, which is a way for Russia to get around some of these harsh sanctions, a trading relationship, the alliance that is between Russia and China, and also Russia's energy sector has not been hit by these sanctions. U.S. ambassador to the United Nations told CNN today that the Biden administration has not ruled out targeting the Russian energy sector with sanctions. Would you support that even if it hurts the U.S. economy?

BOYLE: Well, first, I want to just commend our allies, especially the European Union with their historic sanctions that they announced several hours ago.

[19:25:03]

As far as the U.S. sanctions, specifically targeting the energy sector, I believe we need to go there and I say that recognizing that there will be some cost to us that ordinary Americans will be paying a little bit higher at the pump but frankly I think that is a sacrifice that we need to pay because we'll pay far more later if we don't successfully stand up to Putin on this.

I do think, however, there are two things that the administration can do to mitigate that sort of pain that we might feel at the pump. First, release some of our reserves at the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. We have that reserve for a reason. Frankly, a situation just like this. And then the second thing we can do is lean on those countries in OPEC, especially Saudi Arabia, to increase the level of production. This is a time for them to step up and we will be noticing and taking note of what decisions they made.

BROWN: Do you think that the U.S. should target Russia's energy sector even if the E.U. doesn't get on board? As you know, so far, everything has been done in tandem with European allies. Europe would be hit harder than the United States when it comes to Russia's energy sector and any sanctions there. Do you think that the U.S. should go it alone on that front?

BOYLE: So whenever I'm at NATO meetings, whether it was just this past week in Brussels or for the past several years, I'm always reminded by my European counterparts especially the Germans that anytime we push through with sanctions, frankly, they feel it and they feel the pinch a lot more than we do. In order for sanctions to be effective, they have to be in tandem. The U.S. can go it alone, but they just make the sanctions far less effective, so I think that keeping a united front, the U.S. and the E.U. and others working side-by-side is not only the best approach, I think it's really the only approach.

BROWN: I've been receiving so many viewer questions, and one of them keeps being, why isn't the administration not doing more militarily? Do you think that there should be more done militarily from the U.S. and from E.U. countries?

BOYLE: Well, as I think you know, this is an issue I've worked on all seven years that I've been in Congress, ever since I got there in 2015. You spoke to a couple of my Ukrainian American constituents last night, a great job, I have one of the largest Ukrainian American populations in the country, of any congressional district. And I felt and I said so, this was back when Obama was president, that I thought we needed to do more beginning with them through the last three administrations to help arm Ukraine.

This was in response to Crimea being taken as well as the incursions into the Donbas. I wish that we had done more then, we might have possibly prevented reaching this point, but right now, in terms of the present and the future, making sure Ukraine, their official army as well as frankly, every single one of their people, have the armaments that they need, should be our number one priority.

My understanding is that for every Ukrainian who wants a gun, or, excuse me, for every 10 Ukrainians who want a gun, there's only one to go around. That's something we can help with today and we should.

BROWN: And of course, it raises a logistics question, right, when you have Russia encircling Ukraine, how do you get the arms to them and that is why there has been criticism from people on both sides of the aisle that this should have been done sooner. More should have been sent over sooner.

Another key viewer question that I've been getting is what happens if Russia completely takes over Ukraine? How would the world, Ukraine, retaliate besides tough sanctions?

BOYLE: Yes, if I could, I just wanted to address the last thing you said for a second.

BROWN: Sure.

BOYLE: Because I think this White House, the administration, really needs to be given a lot of credit. They took a decision that I don't know if any previous administration making and that was to make public all of the intelligence that we had over the last several months. The intelligence community completely nailed this.

The intelligence community, the IC, sometimes makes really big mistakes as we saw in Iraq with no weapons of mass destruction, but my goodness, they completely nailed it here, but then when the White House went one step further and they released all of this intelligence, in advance, that made it so much easier for us to work with allies in advance so that way they wouldn't be caught off guard or frankly, by these sort of false flag nonsense that Putin was planning to put out there. That is part of why, I think, you've seen the world react in unison the way it has.

[19:30:00]

BROWN: Yes, I mean, no doubt. The U.S. Intelligence Community was several steps ahead every step of the way during this and has been warning for months that this was going to happen, and it is really something I've never seen as a journalist, so much transparency coming from the U.S. Intelligence Community.

Of course, as you know, that is separate from getting the appropriations for sending over weapons and so forth that the administration is engaged in now, beyond what it already sent over to Ukraine before the Russian invasion.

But just quickly, I want to go back to that viewer question, because a lot of people have been asking what happens if Russia takes over Ukraine? I mean, so far, the Ukrainians are putting up a good fight. They are showing tremendous resolve, and I know you must be proud of having so many Ukrainian-Americans in your district. But what happens if Russia does takeover?

BOYLE: I will tell you, it reminds me of the saying: Be careful what you wish for.

Vladimir Putin better be careful that he gets what he wishes for because if Russia really does initially succeed in taking over Ukraine, you will see every single day attacks on Russian soldiers in that country. Ukrainians are a proud people. They fight, they will not be suppressed. This will make our experience in Vietnam, pale in comparison, and I just can't fathom what exactly Vladimir Putin is thinking to have initiated this operation.

BROWN: Yes, it's one thing if they do have a victory and take over a capital city, it's another thing holding on to it. And so far, a lot of people we've spoken to on this show don't think that they can. Go ahead, quickly.

BOYLE: Yes, no, I would make -- and I do not make this analogy for other reasons, but just in this limited instance, think of our actions in Iraq in 2003. We pretty quickly through the shock and awe campaign captured Baghdad, captured Iraq. Mission accomplished was declared. Boy, was that wrong?

It turns out the far harder more difficult task was holding Iraq after the initial invasion. That was the case in Iraq. Putin will find the same thing times 10 in Ukraine. BROWN: All right, Democratic Congressman Brendan Boyle, great to have

you on the show. Thank you so much.

BOYLE: Thank you.

BROWN: Well, thousands of Ukrainians are fleeing to places like Poland to escape the violence.

Coming up next, I'll talk to former Defense Secretary William Cohen. He thinks we could see more Ukrainians killed if Putin is not stopped.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Ukraine reports at least 352 civilians killed since the invasion including at least 14 children.

My next guest says that number will continue to rise possibly beyond Ukraine's borders. Former Defense Secretary under President Clinton, William Cohen joins me now.

Thanks for joining the show. I want to talk about looking ahead just hours from now, Russian and Ukrainian delegations are expected to meet at the Belarusian border. Do you think this could be a turning point? Or do you think this is just a tactic by Putin to buy more time since his military has run into so many issues in its endeavor in Ukraine?

WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: Well, it could be both. I don't have any way of knowing what President Putin has in mind at this point, but I think it's a positive sign. At least they are going to be talking, at least setting some kind of parameters if they can to this conflict.

But I've said before that I think that if this goes on for a length of time that looks as if Putin's military objective is not being fulfilled, he is going to increase the violence upon the Ukrainian people.

Earlier, you had General Wesley Clark on and I think he came basically to that conclusion. And I agree with what he said, the danger is that when Putin thinks he is losing, he's going to intensify the bombardment and kill a lot of innocent people. And then that poses a question for the rest of the world of what do we do at that point? And so if we are all getting back to this, how does it all end? How does this all play out?

If the Ukrainians are successful in defeating the incursion into their own country, how does Putin react to that? And if he is successful, will he then so decimate the Ukrainian population? So it reminds me of what a Roman historian once said about the Roman legion, they made a desert and they call it peace. Will he make a desert out of Ukrainian population, the people, and call it peace?

Is that something that he is willing to do at all?

So Pamela, as I look at this, it is as almost as if President Putin has a chicken bone caught in his throat? How does he get it out? How does he get out of this saving face for him without destroying the Ukrainian people? And I think someone, whether the Russians, I'm sorry, the Chinese, the Indians, the Israelis, anyone who does business with him, ought to do the equivalent of having a Heimlich, and helping him get that bone out of his throat because I think it's not going to end well for him and the Russian people, and it certainly won't end well for the Ukrainian people. It just goes on through the length of time.

BROWN: So far, we are not seeing that from China or India. But of course, it could change. You know, you talk about the concern about escalation given the fact that Russia is not making the kind of headway that it thought it would at this point.

Earlier today, Putin announced he was placing his nuclear deterrent forces on high alert ahead of Monday's talks with Ukraine. Do you think that that should change U.S. posture? I mean, how should we be thinking about that?

[19:40:09]

COHEN: It shouldn't change our posture. It will concentrate our minds on that of the world.

President Putin has indicated he wants to go back to 1997. My fear is that he is going to take us back to 1914 in the beginning of World War One.

If you threaten or use nuclear weapons of whatever size, then the dogs of war have really been unleashed. And then the response is, it's almost a nuclear chain reaction, what happens after that.

And so we're on the edge, if he is serious about using nuclear weapons, then the world has to be concerned. And so, we'll be in a different posture, but I think we have to be alert to him because he seems to be on a messianic mission to restore the glories of the past, as he sees it to Russia.

What has he done in terms of restoring glory? He has brought shame to Russia. He has now put Russia in a position of having its people blocked from traveling globally. The E.U. has said no more Russian planes coming in. I'm waiting for other countries, Japan, Singapore, other countries, Africa, all of the countries in Africa saying, you know, you can't land here, you can't take off here anymore on a Russian plane.

So he is seeing this spread, and I think he doesn't really know how to get out of it at this point. There has been some speculation that he is 50 feet away from his Cabinet Ministers because of his fear of COVID. Maybe it's more than fear from COVID that he is concerned about that he has to keep everybody away at 50-foot lengths.

So this could rebound in the way that you're seeing in Russia itself, with thousands of people taking to the streets, looking as if they are fearless because they may end up in the gulag, they may end up in jail, and you won't hear from them again, but they're taking to the streets, which ought to give some cause for reflection upon the United States.

We should be embarrassed that the Russian people are standing up in the face of these kinds of threats when we have some people here in America saying we should be siding with Putin. They are sending a lesson for all of us, as well as Ukrainian people inspiring the world, and so are the Russian people taking to the streets.

So to the extent that we see more of this, I think Putin is going to be threatened from within, and then he could become even more repressive from within Russia, and then that may have a consequence for him that he won't be able to control.

So there's a lot at stake here. I'm hoping diplomacy will prevail that there is a way out of this. There is a way for Russia to achieve some of its goals; some of his fears can be alleviated, but not at the end of a gunpoint and that is something that all --

BROWN: I want to ask, I don't mean to cut you off, but we have this viewer question I've received so many of this exact same question. It is: How do you hold Putin accountable for crimes against humanity?

COHEN: Well, he could be charged with war crimes. He could be charged and also tried for war crimes should he ever be deposed or retire from office. Pending that, he will remain in power and be seen as the scourge of mankind, except that he's killed thousands of people, innocent people who pose no threat to him.

And so war crimes could be instituted against him at some point in time, and he could be tried in the future as Milosevic was in Bosnia and Kosovo.

BROWN: Thank you. Thank you so much, William Cohen.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:47:48]

BROWN: Russia's invasion of Ukraine has investors and many other people worried about their wallets. There was already concern about inflation in the U.S. before this crisis, and now, the conflict could make the financial situation worse. Just look at gas prices in some places right now.

Let's check on Wall Street futures and Asian markets. I'm going to bring CNN's Matt Egan. So what is the latest, Matt?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Pamela, investors are clearly nervous about this war.

The past 48 hours has given people a lot more to worry about, so we have a developing situation in financial markets where stock futures are taking a hit. Dow futures are down about 500 points as we speak, around one and a half percent. Selling has been even more extreme in the S&P and the NASDAQ. They are down about two percent of peak. Oil prices also moving higher, U.S. oil prices up more than five

percent to around $97.00 a barrel. Brent, the world benchmark also up sharply above $100.00 a barrel.

Before this crisis, you know, we hadn't seen triple digit oil prices since 2014. But remember, Russia is the world's number two producer of oil and there are concerns about a disruption to Russia's oil exports in some way, shape, or form, and this oil spike if it continues, you know, it could make inflation worse.

Obviously, prices at the gas pump can go higher. But also, you know, it's going to raise costs for businesses, going to raise costs for airlines, and they are going to pass those higher costs around to consumers.

Now, we should point out that U.S. markets were up pretty substantially, Thursday afternoon and Friday. So U.S. stock futures are giving back some of those gains.

But this weekend, I do think was a bit of a wakeup call for investors about the seriousness of this crisis, and we just think about some of the developments in the last two days. We had Vladimir Putin putting his nuclear forces on high alert, the West cranking up sanctions on Russia, including booting some banks from SWIFT, that high security network that banks rely on to communicate.

I think a lot of investors are probably asking themselves right now, how is Putin going to respond to that? And then the fact that Russia has these weapons capable of mass casualties that have been spotted around Ukraine.

I spoke to a veteran market strategist this evening who said, it feels like the least two thirds of the world is against Russia's invasion here. And yet, things could still get worse before they get better.

BROWN: Yes, and it is very concerning and frightening, frankly. Matt Egan, thank you very much.

And when we come back, fierce fighting between Ukrainian and Russian forces on the streets of Kharkiv over control of a military airfield and factory. More on that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:54:32]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Hollywood's return to the red carpet is finally here.

Is it a new pressure to be really the first main Award Show of the season?

KATHY CONNELL, PRODUCER, SCREEN ACTOR GUILD AWARDS: It's exciting. ELAM (voice over): Kathy Connell and Jon Brockett have been producing

the SAG Awards for more than two decades. This year, COVID has been the constant curveball.

CONNELL: In December, they were saying: Are you still doing a live show? And we're going, yes, we are.

ELAM (voice over): Along with testing and vaccinations requirements, the show is moving to an aircraft hangar in Santa Monica.

[19:55:04]

ELAM (on camera): Of course, the benefit of moving to a hangar is that they can open up the door for more ventilation and with LA County dropping its indoor mask mandate for vaccinated people, it definitely takes the pressure off.

ELAM (voice over): As the Oscars go big with three presenters, the SAG Awards, we'll have none.

CONNELL: Well, we're the tightest show on the air and we have all these stars in the room, and wouldn't you like to see as many of them as you possibly could?

BRAD PITT, ACTOR: I've got to add this to my Tinder profile.

ELAM (voice over): They say the speeches are the big draw.

JON BROCKETT, PRODUCER, SCREEN ACTOR GUILD AWARDS: It's where the award comes from. It is actors voting on actors.

ELAM (voice over): This year is full of firsts. "Squid Game" is the first foreign language TV show nominated for Best Ensemble and "CODA's" Troy Kotzur is the first deaf actor to be nominated for an individual award.

SCOTT FEINBERG, AWARDS COLUMNIST, THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER: The veteran of the deaf theater community in LA, who has a charming part in the movie and is just a Cinderella story as himself.

ELAM (voice over): The SAG Awards also differ from the Oscars in nominees. "House of Gucci" and Lady Gaga were embraced by SAG actors largely shunned by the Oscars.

Jennifer Hudson as Aretha Franklin nominated for a SAG Award showed no respect by Oscar, and "The Power of the Dog" is Oscars' top dog, but that most nominated film, not up for SAG's top prize.

The SAG Awards don't always predict the Oscars, but they have telegraphed some upsets.

EUGENE LEVY, ACTOR: "Parasite."

FEINBERG: "Parasite" coming out of kind of nowhere, they first won the Best Ensemble SAG Award.

ELAM (on camera): What makes the SAG Awards special?

CONNELL: It is the actor's party in the actor's house. It's fun.

ELAM (voice over): In Hollywood, I'm Stephanie Elam.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:00:00]