Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Russian Invasion of Kyiv; Bombing of Kharkiv; U.S. Cutting off Russia's Central Bank; Talks Underway between Ukraine and Russia. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired February 28, 2022 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:31]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Fears of resistance. Ukraine forces push Russian troops back as the two countries meet for high-level talks.

Good morning. I'm Erica Hill in New York.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome, Erica. And I'm Jim Sciutto reporting from Lviv. Ukraine.

Happening right now, Ukraine demanding an immediate cease-fire and withdrawal of Russian troops as officials from the two countries have met to discuss a possible, a hope for de-escalation.

And new video just into CNN this morning. It appears to show that while those talks were going on, bombs were raining down on the city of Kharkiv. Russia has issued a blanket denial it is targeting civilians there. CNN is reaching out to the Russian government for a comment on what appears to be a devastating attack here.

Right now Russian troops are facing strong Ukrainian opposition. New video overnight appears to show Ukrainian carrying out a drone strike on Russian military vehicles. The Russian president, Vladimir Putin, has now put his nuclear forces on high alert while the White House calls it a manufactured threat. It is important to note that a first use of nuclear weapons, including battlefield nukes, is part of Russia's military doctrine.

And as we approach dusk here on the fifth day of Russia's invasion, Ukrainian officials say at least 350 civilians have been killed, nearly 1,700 injured, more than 100 of them children.

This morning, our Matthew Chance is in Kyiv and Frederik Pleitgen is in Belgorod region of Russia, just to the northeast of here.

I do want to begin with Matthew because, Matthew, earlier today you visited the site of just a devastating attack on a Russian convoy on a bridge near Kyiv. I want to play a clip of what you saw there and then get your comments about it.

Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The Russian column that has come down here has been absolutely hammered. Obviously, we're still in a very exposed situation right now. But if we can just bring you along here, there's the debris everywhere. The twisted metal of these vehicles. This is obviously just the -- just a truck carrying supplies. We saw the armored vehicle in front there.

I mean, looking around, absolutely -- look at this. I mean what kind of munitions does it take to do that to a car, to a vehicle. You know, I know that -- I've been speaking to the local Ukrainian commanders here. They've been saying that they were using western antitank missiles to attack these columns.

Look, so recent the battle, this vehicle is still smoking. There's still smoke coming out the back of that. Ammunition boxes on the ground. T here's unexploded grenades, you know, in various -- like pineapple grenades everywhere. You know, a real scene of devastation along this bridge.

According to the local Ukrainian military that I've been speaking to, there may be as many as ten -- 10 -- I mean, look, I mean it's a bit of a -- almost a cliche but, oh, obviously somebody's brought a memento from home, you know, and now it's scorched and lying with the debris of the, in this case, failed attack.

I mean, you know, all along this bridge, which is an access point, there are these vehicles that have been hammered by the Ukrainian forces. A bit of a Russian uniform there lying on the floor.

I can tell you, I toured this area earlier, and there were some terrible things that we can't really show you on camera in terms of dead bodies, Russians still lying here on the ground.

This vehicle here is obviously from the Russian military. It's got the letter "v" (INAUDIBLE) on the side like in tape or in paint. That -- I think that's stands for Vostok (ph), which is the Russian word for east, which implies that these military equipment, they came from the eastern divisions of the Russian military.

And what I was saying that -- look, there's evidence. I don't want to show you this too much, but there's a -- there's a body there. That's a Russian soldier. But he's lying there dead on this bridge. Lying there dead on this bridge as his column has attempted to drive in and been thwarted.

[09:05:09]

Since this invasion begun is that the Ukraine -- as I was crouching down right by a grenade there, look, and I didn't see that, so let's -- let's move away from that.

Look, I mean you've got the Ukrainian military that is battle hardened from its fight in the east of the country. They've been fitting Russians and Russian-backed rebels in that region for a long time and so they -- they know what they're doing. They've been bolstered by the arrival of, you know, stinger missiles and anti-tank javelin missiles from the United States and from other countries as well in the west.

In fact, just yesterday, Sweden announced it was delivering -- Sweden announced it was delivering 5,000 anti-tank missiles to this country to help Ukrainians defend against the Russian invasion. And so it's with the help of that weaponry that they've been able to really cause the Russians a significant amount of pain.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Matthew Chance is with us now.

And as you noted there, we should be conscious, sensitive to the fact that what you walked through there was a graveyard. A graveyard for Russian soldiers.

Matthew, you said that Ukrainian military officials told you that convoy hit with anti-tank rockets. Were they describing specifically, do you believe, the javelins? Because those javelins we've seen -- shoulder-fired antitank missile -- we've seen so prevalent in so many of these attacks, a key part of the U.S. and NATO aid to the Ukrainian military. Is that what they believe was behind this?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's not just they believe it. I mean they're the guys that use them. Yes, javelins are the type of short-range anti-tank missile that are being used, but also a few other kinds of munitions as well that are very similar that the British supplied the Ukrainian military with a type of short-range anti-armor weapon as well. They're all being brought to bear now on these Russian armored formations that just seem to be walk -- you know, driving into ambushes. I mean this is not the first time we've seen a column of Russian armor absolutely devastated.

In fact, you know, there was video yesterday, I think maybe from the same column actually, because the, you know, the reason we got to this location is that, you know, the rest of the column had been cut off because the Ukrainians had dropped the bridge into Kyiv to cut off any possible road access into it. And so, yes, they're using western weapons. They're also using, you know, very, you know, good, defensive tactics to defend the capital. You know, but they're also saying that the Russian soldiers are not, you know, certainly in these columns, don't seem to be the most practiced, the most professional that are, you know, so they're not -- you know, basically they're driving into ambushes. And so the strategic problem, a tactical problem, rather, when it comes to the way the Russians are advancing on this city.

SCIUTTO: Yes. We've heard that from many of our military experts.

And please be careful, Matthew. As you know, in those scenes, often there's unexploded ordnance. It can still be dangerous after the attack.

We also have our Fred Pleitgen. He's just across the border from northeastern Ukraine in the Belgorod region.

And, Fred, you had a remarkable vantage point there because you've watched and often filmed, live on television, as Russia marches and rolls its troops and armor into the northeastern part of the country. Tell us what kind of weapons systems you've seen going in, because that gives us a sense of what capabilities the Russians have on the ground and perhaps what they might use.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, exactly, what capabilities they have and also what might happen next on the battlefield.

And, you know, the area where we are right here, Jim, this is basically the entry point to the Kharkiv battlefield. And, of course, one of the things that you had said in the lead-up to all of this is that apparently there were those rocket strikes on residential areas inside Kharkiv. And I have to say, from our vantage point right here, again, impossible for us to tell exactly what's going on.

However, what we have seen here today, Jim, is multiple rocket launchers also going past that checkpoint right there and then driving towards the battlefield in Kharkiv. Essentially, and especially just a couple of minutes ago, as Matthew was still speaking on the air, another multiple rocket launcher called an Uragan also went past this position. We saw first the rocket launcher and then a loading vehicle with missiles on the back. That has a range of about 65 miles and could easily hit Kharkiv from the area where we are. And, of course, now that it's moving closer, especially then as well. So that's certainly something that seems to be quite troubling from our vantage point right now.

But really, throughout the day, we've seen the Russians move more equipment into there, even though, from what the Ukrainians are saying, there could have been somewhat of a lull in the battle that was going on.

[09:10:02]

Clearly in Kharkiv that is not the case and there seems to have been some heavy shelling going on there. And certainly, we've seen rockets take off from here throughout the day. And we've now seen those multiple rocket launchers go towards the battlefield as well.

The other thing that we've also seen, and this kind of goes to Matthew's point as well, about the possible readiness of the Russian military. What we've seen today, we've seen over the past couple of days, is a lot of broken down Russian military gear as well. We saw a broken down Uragan rocket launcher also on the side of the street as we were driving around this area here. And we even saw a Howitzer that seemed to be stuck in the ditch, somewhat rolled over. No idea how that happened. But that really is almost a pattern of what we're seeing, of Russian military gear that seems to be breaking down on this side of the border. Again, unclear whether or not that's something that's sort of the common attrition that you might have in a military offensive of this side, but it's certainly something that we've taken note of.

Again, we have to point out that we're seeing a lot of gear here on this side of the Russian border. The Russians clearly appear to still have the capacity to escalate. But, certainly, it does seem as though some of the gear that they have here seems to be broken down and needs to be towed away. And, at the same time, they seem to be moving rocket launchers. It's something that was clearly seen today closer to the battlefront in Kharkiv, which, obviously, is a troubling sign for the folks who are up there and defending that city, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes, broken down or sometimes out of gas. I'll tell you, Fred, though, it's just remarkable. You talk about battlefield intelligence, secrecy, operational security. Here you are standing there, watching, and being able to identify weapons systems as they roll into this country, remarkable.

Fred Pleitgen, good to have you there.

Matthew Chance, good to have him in Kyiv.

Erica, back to you in the U.S.

HILL: Jim, thanks.

Here in the United States, the Biden administration taking aggressive action against Russia just this morning, moving to stop Moscow from accessing money it had expected to use to mitigate the impact of harsh sanctions.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond is live at the White House.

So, Jeremy, this morning, the president set to host a call with allies on the latest out of Ukraine. Before that, though, there are these new sanctions against Russia. Lay out what we know here.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Erica, these are some very significant and aggressive actions taken by the U.S., perhaps among some of the most far-reaching sanctions that we've seen from the United States. Similar steps being taken today as well by the European Union to essentially cut off this rainy-day fund that Vladimir Putin has been building for years to try and mitigate the impact of sanctions that he was expecting in the event he chose to move forward with what were seeing right now, which is an invasion of Ukraine.

The U.S. is cutting off Russia's central bank from accessing its funds in U.S. dollars, freezing essentially billions of dollars in funds that are held in the United States by the Russian Central Bank. Also fully blocking the Russian-direct investment fund from getting any investments in the United States or accessing the U.S. financial system.

And this cuts at this $630 billion of foreign currency reserves that Russia currently holds. Those funds were expected to be used to prop up what we have seen now, which is a plummeting ruble, the -- Russia's currency. And now they won't be able to do that.

A senior administration official says on a call that, quote, fortress Russia will be exposed as a myth, saying that no country is sanctions- proof. These actions taking effect immediately. They were announced by the

U.S. before markets here opened. And they say that that was because they were seeing over the weekend, as the U.S. had announced it was going to take this step, that the Russian Central Bank was getting ready to start moving many of its foreign currency reserves back to Russia.

Notably, though, there is a carve-out here, a significant carve-out for energy-related transactions. That's because the Biden administration says they want to try and maximize the impact that it's going to have on Russia and minimize the impact that it's going to have on U.S. and European energy consumers. But nonetheless, significant actions.

Also sanctioning Kirill Dmitriev, the head of Russia's direct investment fund and a very close ally of Vladimir Putin. Another one of those steps to target the Russian elites and the oligarchs who are propping up Putin's regime.

HILL: Jeremy Diamond, appreciate it. Thank you.

Still to come, Russian forces facing fierce resistance from Ukrainian fighters, as you've been watching this morning. So we have the latest from the front lines.

SCIUTTO: And later I'll be joined live by a member of Ukraine's Territorial Defense Brigade. It's their citizen's army.

You'll also hear my conversation with two young Ukrainian civilians who just volunteered to join the fight against the Russians.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:19:01]

SCIUTTO: Right now talks between high ranking Ukrainian and Russian officials are underway. This is close to the border between Ukraine and Belarus. Ukraine has now demanded ahead of the meeting an immediate cease-fire and complete withdrawal of Russian troops from this country.

HILL: Meantime, Russian forces facing fierce and stiffer-than-expected resistance across the country. I want to show you some video just into CNN this morning.

This shows a convoy of Russian military vehicles leaving the battle zone near Kharkiv, heading back to military camps on the Russian side of the border.

Also this morning, Ukraine announcing it will create an international legion for foreign volunteers to join the fight against Russia.

SCIUTTO: Joining us now to discuss, retired Army Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, he's the former commanding general for Europe and the Seventh Army. Also, Olga Tokariuk. She's a freelance journalist in Ukraine, nonresident fellow at the Center for European Policy Analysis.

Good to have you both.

[09:20:00]

General Hertling, I want to begin with you and I want to show you video that has come into CNN just a short time ago. This took place in Kharkiv, in the northeastern part of Ukraine. And it shows an attack. And I know you've looked at this video. Can you give us a sense, as we watch it, as to what weapon you think is being used here?

LT. GENERAL MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I know what weapon is being used, Jim. It's a Smirch (ph) -- part of a Smerch rocket attack. A multiple-launch rocket attack. But what's important, if you can continue to show the video, you see all the pops in the middle of the explosions. Those are cluster munitions. Those are not artillery rounds falling. And it would be bad enough if these were artillery rounds falling on an apartment complex. But those are cluster munitions.

Let me explain. It's a rocket that goes overhead, releases a bunch of small bomblets, close to 100 of them. And they land like hand grenades in a large swath of land. They are geared to execute civilian casualties on a massive scale. So it's like having, on each rocket that lands, 100 small hand grenades falling. To use that -- and I've seen evidence of this in other attacks, films from other attacks over the last couple of days that are landing in streets and in small cities, this is the most devastating kind of artillery because not only does it land and explode, but in some cases those rounds don't explode. They become duds. So they litter the battlefield and become somewhat like landmines for children to pick up or someone to step on.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Yes.

HILL: It's also, as we're watching this, General, to see this playing out at essentially the same time as these talks are happening, that's an interesting message in and of itself.

HERTLING: Yes, absolutely. And what we've seen is a repeated attack on civilian -- the civilian population of Ukraine. They're not -- it doesn't appear that the Russians are even attempting to fight soldiers until the Ukrainian soldiers fight them. They seem to be under a terror campaign of trying to make the population of Ukraine and the various large cities frightened, psychological warfare by using these kinds of munitions and rolling through their towns.

The use of tanks and armored carriers in a mobile environment like this, in my view, Erica, is just ridiculous. And it just shows the incompetence, first of all, of the Russian army and the fact that they are not doing the things that most nations abide by in the law of land warfare.

SCIUTTO: Olga, good to have you on as well.

Earlier this month, and this was before the start of the invasion, you wrote in "The Washington Post," I know my generation will prevail again. I know Putin's plans for Ukraine, whatever shape they take, are doomed to fail. Millions of Ukrainians stand united once again ready to resist.

Those were prescient comments because while some might have doubted that in the face of the Russian advance prior, it's exactly what we're seeing play out right now in this country. The question is, can it hold up, right, because we're only five days in?

OLGA TOKARIUK, FREELANCE JOURNALIST IN UKRAINE: Well, you know, I'm sure it can hold up. While Ukrainians have demonstrated incredible resilience and readiness to defend their country, you know, their constriction (ph) offices of full of volunteers. They are not making it in time to proceed (ph) everyone who wants to join the army or join the territorial defense units (ph). They're actually sending people back, saying to go back -- come back in a couple of days because so many Ukrainian men are volunteering to join the resistance, and civilians are also, you know, very active in a different way, supporting the army, donating money. Millions of dollars have been raised in recent days for the needs of the Ukrainian army from Ukrainian civilians. A lot, you know, also, people are going to donate blood to support the hospitals to treat injured people. There's a massive effort, of course, humanitarian effort, to provide support for the IDPs, internally displaced people, who are fleeing.

So, I could safely say that Ukraine's united in this (INAUDIBLE) resistance and is ready for a long battle, but Ukraine will prevail ultimately. I'm sure of that.

HILL: General, we hear Olga talk there about, and we've seen so much of it and heard from other Ukrainians about their determination and their pride in their country and how important their independence is. When you look at that juxtaposed with, as you were just laying out, that from your estimation the Russian soldiers aren't even really fighting Ukrainian military until they're faced with them, how much more of what we're seeing, including this, you know, line of, as Fred Pleitgen was just laying out, broken down military gear on the way in still on the Russian side, how much is that demasking, if you will, the Russian military and perhaps what a lot of folks thought they may know about just how well prepared or not the Russian military was and is?

HERTLING: Yes, I'll say two things to that, Erica.

[09:24:01]

First of all, I've been saying from the very beginning, we should not consider the Russian military as ten feet tall. They are not. They have terrible leadership at both the tactical and the operational level. Their soldiers are untrained. They are extremely undisciplined. And I say that from personal experience. I've watched, as commander in Europe, I've watched Russian exercises, Russian training events.

On the same time -- at the same time, I've also worked very extensively with Ukraine and Ukraine's army. They have evolved to a point of being one of the best armies in Europe. They have a straight discipline. They've got great leaders and soldiers. They have an operational mindset. Their general officer corps from the old Soviet Union days have been replaced by very patriotic individuals. And the country is a beautiful cultural icon. And to see Russia coming in and applying these attacks against humanity in this beautiful country just pains me.

And it's just -- it's unfortunate because, as Ms. Tokariuk just said, it is a wonderful culture and they are leaning forward in society, as opposed to going backwards, as it seems Mr. Putin is attempting to take Russia.

SCIUTTO: Olga, is there a path out of this short of an endless war?

TOKARIUK: Well, I just want to compliment, you know, General Hertling, on his (INAUDIBLE) his words on Twitter. He was praising and, you know, expressing exactly that, that the Ukrainian army has the spirt and the Ukrainian society in general has, you know, what Russia lacks, motivation, and they know what they are doing. They are defending their land. So, thank you also, General, for this support. It's very encouraging for us in Ukraine to see people in the west who understand Ukraine as well and you know are really making this message heard all over the world.

In terms of how this would end, you know, I see that the pressure on Russia is increasing and Russians increasingly start to realize what is happening. There are already reports and, you know, messages on social media calling on Russian citizens to go out and protest and the Ukraine government is doing a lot for that. There is a hotline for Russian mothers and lives where they can call and inquire about, you know, their children and husbands who are currently fighting in Ukraine. And Ukrainians are telling them what is happening and the Ukrainians are also encouraging them to go and protest.

As the Russian economy's falling into freefall at the moment, we can expect those protests. We can expect, you know, the public opinion in Russia changing despite the massive effort of propaganda to hide the casualties and what is really happening. So, I'm optimistic about the outcome of this. Ukraine will win. It's -- the only question, what will be the human cost and the toll of this war as we are seeing Russia unleashing, you know, the artillery and bombing on civilian areas.

HILL: Yes.

HERTLING: And, Erica, if I can add to that. I'm sorry, I know you're going over time, but if I can just add, we who watch Russia have seen this time after time after time in places like Chechnya, in Syria, in Transnistria, in Nagorno-Karabakh.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HERTLING: They have been the oppressors and inhuman in their activities. And it's time to hold them accountable.

HILL: Yes. You talk about evidence of that human toll.

Lt. General Mark Hertling, Olga Tokariuk, appreciate you both joining us this morning. Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Still ahead, Ukrainian citizens, young and old, responding to the call to defend their country. We speak with volunteers ready to risk it all for Ukraine's defense. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:30:00]