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CNN Team Observes Inoperable Russian Vehicles As U.S., Western Officials Say Portion Of Russian Force Unusable; Ukrainian Navy: Snake Island Defenders "Alive And Well"; U.N. Secretary General: Russia Putting Nuclear Forces On High Alert Is A "Chilling Development"; Facebook Parent Company Shuts Down Russian Disinformation Network; Switzerland Adopts Same Sanctions Against Russia As E.U. Aired 10:30- 11a ET

Aired February 28, 2022 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:02]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: At this hour, as the fighting continues, talks are ongoing between Ukrainian and Russian officials near the border with Belarus over the past several days. Just remarkable scenes, as Ukrainian forces, even ordinary citizens push back against Russian forces across this country.

There is this video into CNN just this morning showing broken down Russian military vehicles on the side of the road. This just south of Belgorod, Russia, across the border from Northeastern Ukraine. CNN Senior International Correspondent Fred Pleitgen, he is right there. Also CNN International Security Editor Nick Paton Walsh, he's in Odessa in the South.

Fred, I do want to begin with you. Your remarkable vantage point. You have a seat there where you can watch all the hardware coming into this country from the northeast. What kinds of weapons and how many are you seeing come in?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, certainly, Jim. And, you know, some of the things that we're seeing come in, they sort of give a prelude of what that happens on the battlefield, especially in the Kharkiv area where, as you've mentioned, some of the heaviest fighting going on there now. And of course, also potentially residential areas have now been shelled with rocket artillery. And that was really one of the things that we were able to see here.

As far as the gear is concerned, over the past couple of hours, is on several occasions, we saw heavy Russian, multiple rocket launchers. They're called Uragan being moved closer to the front line. We're at the last checkpoint before you get towards the Kharkiv area, before you get to the Ukrainian borders, we saw at least three of those heavy rocket launchers go past us and moved that way into the direction of Ukraine. Also, a loading system that actually did have the missiles on it as well.

So the Russians moving that kind of gear closer towards Kharkiv. And that certainly is a sign that possibly the attack on that city is going to intensify. As of course, the Russians in that Kharkiv area have already broken through one of the defensive rings there. And there are Russian forces in the city. But the fighting there still very much going on. Obviously, the Ukrainians still in control of most of that city.

The other thing that I think is interesting from our vantage point as well, Jim, which we've also seen is that the Russians seem to be rotating forces through. In fact, just before we went to air here, there was a massive long convoy of Russian forces that left the area of the battlefield. And I could see soldiers actually inside the backs of those trucks, and a lot of them certainly did look fairly tired, but they were moving away from the battlefield. So it seems that the Russians rotating forces through.

Nevertheless, from our vantage point here, from around this area, we can see that there are still a lot of Russian forces stationed here. So certainly the possibility to further escalate all this still very much there, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes. No question, we did have General Hertling on earlier, he said he saw evidence in the videos of cluster munitions being used there in Kharkiv. Our Nick Paton Walsh, I understand you have new reporting this morning on what has been one of the most captivating stories of this war so far, that those Ukrainian soldiers defending Snake Island in the Black Sea, they were believed to have been dead. Do we have new information?

NICK PAYTON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Yes, the Ukrainian Navy says they are alive and well, 82 of them. I have to say all of this is stuff that it's really hard to confirm. But let's just play a game, the audio of that last moments that we thought we were led to believe by Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky obviously working on the best information he had at the time, what happened to them. Approached by a Russian ship on the radio told to surrender is the response which is, frankly, become a sort of legend of its own in this war. Here's what they had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translation): I am repeating, I am Russian military ship propose to put down arms or you will be hit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translation): Russian warship, go -- yourself.

(END VIDEO CLIP) WALSH: Now that's part of the sort of story that's grown around them here. And as I say, Ukraine Navy saying that they are alive and well. We saw apparently on Russian state media, people who have fitted that description being paraded as prisoners are unclear. As I say all these reports where they're going to lead eventually, but it adds to the sort of mythology that's building around the men of Snake Island part of the battle for the Black Sea coast here, Jim, utterly vital and increasing in its intensity.

We've seen over the past three to four days the (INAUDIBLE) by the Russian military to keep pushing through the vital bridge their north, that's part of their bid to move west round to where I'm standing here Odessa. We're just had air sirens around me here relatively rare for this port city, the third biggest in Ukraine. Russian speaking predominantly, utterly vital.

If anybody wants to run the country, you have the control, the economic lever, that's here. We saw off to the Eastern where we are of Mykolaiv intense fighting over the past days. The mayor has tweeted a large column is headed into that city. It does seem that the pace of fighting around here possibly directed towards Odessa is growing, Jim.

[10:35:13]

SCIUTTO: Yes, and it's something to remember. Yes, there has been remarkable resistance so far, but there's a tremendous Russian force still attacking this country for multiple directions.

Fred Pleitgen up in the northeast, Nick Paton Walsh in the South, thanks so much to both of you. Erica?

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Well, right now the United Nations is holding an emergency special session of the General Assembly on Ukraine. It is the first time this type of emergency meeting has been called in 40 years. Just moments ago, the Secretary General spoke about Russia putting its nuclear forces on high alert. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONIO GUTERRES, U.N. SECRETARY GENERAL: This is a chilling developments. The mere idea of a nuclear conflict is simple. Nothing can justify the use of nuclear weapons. Mr. President.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Joining us now to discuss, CNN National Security Analyst Steve Hall, who retired in 2015 after serving 30 years in the CIA, including a stint in Moscow as the former head of the CIA's Russia operations. We hear those words from the Secretary General just a short time ago, Senator Warner telling, Jim, right here on our air that this is -- you have to be concerned about this, but that he sees this clearly, as not the hand of a strong leader in terms of that move, that declaration from Vladimir Putin. How do you take it?

STEVE HALL, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes, Erica, I see it very much the same way. You do have Vladimir Putin who is increasingly looking and I think will increasingly continue to look like a caged animal, like a dog in a corner. This is going to be especially true as these economic sanctions kick in, and especially as they start kicking in against oligarchs and other military types.

And so, when you have the pressure on somebody like Putin, it's probably a -- you know, he really doesn't have, I think, any psychological options, but to say, well, I'm going to go with the biggest stick I have, which is the nuclear threat. But there is a problem with that. And the problem, of course, is is that could shake the Kremlin sort of sub leaders, the subalterns, if you will, to Putin as well.

And if I were Vladimir Putin, I'd be very concerned about what happened to former President Gorbachev, when there was actually a coup internal to the Kremlin, when things went a little too far, then those in power under him felt comfortable with. So that's got to be in the back of Putin's mind as well, I think.

SCIUTTO: Senator Warner made a point about the isolation, Putin's isolation, small number of advisors that he may or may not listen to plus, with COVID, I mean, he's really retreated. But there's also have been further speculation based on some of his public comments, his demeanor during those public comments that he's not the same Putin he was a number of years ago, cold, cool, calculating. You've covered Russia for years, do you see something similar?

HALL: You know, Jim, you got to be careful not to be, you know, the armchair psychologist. And even in the best of days, Putin's mind is a dark place filled with cobwebs. But nevertheless, there are data points that are coming up. I mean, we have seen this pattern of behavior that, frankly, many of us are familiar with, when we've been, you know, trying to lock down for COVID.

But for an authoritarian leader, like Putin, who has very limited input and output, by his own choice, has surrounded himself by people who he wants to be afraid of him, because that's part of the system, then how do you tell that guy, Putin, hey, things might not be going the way you thought. And if that's the case, then you do have this increased isolation.

There's a danger with that, because does he lash out at some point? But I think also his, you know, his subalterns, the Slavic (ph) here looking closely, watching him closely. And he's got to know that.

HILL: You know, as we look at how the West is responding, I know you've expressed some skepticism about sanctions and just how effective they could be overall. But based on what we're seeing, and even what we saw this morning, do you think they're beginning to have an impact? And do you think they could, in fact, be successful in some ways here?

HALL: Well, it's really interesting, Erica. We'll see. I have -- I think, with a lot of other folks been skeptical with regard to the type of sanctions that we've done in the past, which quite frankly, in my assessment have been, a, not only things that Putin has already calculated and sort of baked into his plan forward, but, b, also have not been particularly effective. These are different. This is a different scale of sanctions.

And when you're talking about the Russian markets having to close down entirely when the Russian bank is completely ostracized, I mean, here, what you have as a President, Putin, who is basically decided, yes, I can live with my country looking more like North Korea than having it looked like France or Paris or even China. So, yes, I think that is going to have an impact. But, again, there's -- there could be a dangerous impact as well, which needs to be taken very seriously, which I think we heard Senator Warner say,

[10:40:00]

HILL: Steve Hall, always great to have you with us. Appreciate your insight. Thank you.

Facebook's parent company says it's shut down a network of pro-Russian accounts trying to spread anti-Ukrainian disinformation. Critics, however, say big tech needs to do a whole lot more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: Facebook's parent company Meta has now blocked access to Russian state media in Ukraine. This comes after the country announced it shut down a network of fake pages trying to spread anti-Ukrainian propaganda.

[10:45:05]

Big tech though is being asked to do a whole lot more. World leaders calling on platforms to put a lid on Russian propaganda altogether.

CNN's Chief Media Correspondent Brian Stelter joining me now. Look, we know that propaganda is key to Putin --

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

HILL: -- and to Putin's plans. What I thought was interesting is just a short time ago, Senator Mark Warner said to Jim Sciutto, he said, what has surprised him is that Putin hasn't tried to shut down the internet himself, including access to Western news sources in Russia. Looking at how these two play out is also interesting.

STELTER: Yes, it absolutely is. We know that many Russians watch state-owned television. This is propaganda coming from Russian today and other networks. But access to the internet is an alternative that provides access to, frankly, the truth, the ground truth of what's going on.

At the same time, we are seeing some Russian websites being hacked. There are multiple reports of Russian media websites being hacked with anti-Putin messages posted on them in the past few hours. Basically, publicizing the reality of what's going on on the ground in Ukraine and assailing Putin. Those kinds of hacks also signs that Putin is losing this information war.

On one level, that's true. On another level, about the headline the L.A. Times said it well, this morning, Zelensky is winning the PR battle, Ukraine winning the PR battle. That may be less important, that is less important than the physical warfare on the ground, but it is critical around the world.

HILL: Yes.

STELTER: That Zelensky has been able to gather support, the Ukrainians have been able to gather the world support online in this digital age.

HILL: It's interesting, even my 15-year-old actually brought that up to me yesterday, saying, no matter what, the President in Ukraine kind of looks good because he's the hero to his people. And even if he loses, he was trying really hard to fight. And I thought well, that's interesting, you know, coming from a kid who spends a lot of time on the TikTok --

STELTER: Right.

HILL: -- and Instagram --

STELTER: That's right.

HILL: -- watching those things. What we're seeing from Meta, though, and this push for --

STELTER: Yes.

HILL: -- platforms and big tech to do more, how much do you think we will see in terms of them answering that call?

STELTER: Yes, I think that the roots of this come back -- go back years. They go back to the prior competent Ukraine. They go back to the war in Syria. They also go back to the Donald Trump presidency, and the blocking of Donald Trump after the January 6 insurrection.

Look at what the -- one of the European commissioners said on Twitter overnight, "Online platforms took unprecedented steps after the Capitol Hill attacks. Surely Russian war propaganda merits at least the same level of response." So they're basically arguing to the heads of Google and YouTube. Hey, you know, you banned Trump after the insurrection, you need to ban Putin now.

We did see every single day now, we're seeing these tech companies take stronger measures against Russian propaganda. Whether those are strong enough or not, that's the debate. But YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, they are trying to show they're being global citizens, trying to be on the right side of history. Whether they do enough, I think remains to be seen.

HILL: Yes, absolutely, look (INAUDIBLE) and enable as well. Brian, appreciate it. Thank you.

STELTER: Thanks.

HILL: Well, still to come here. You're going to hear from two young Ukrainian civilians who just volunteered to join the fight against the Russians. Hear what they told Jim. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:52:36]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back. New this morning, Switzerland has announced that it will forego its commitment to Swiss neutrality in favor of adopting sanctions against Russia. This announcement comes from Swiss Federal President this morning adding that Switzerland sanctions will be in line with those already adopted by the European Union. That's remarkable, Erica.

HILL: Yes. It really is. The Swiss Federal President also saying this is --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HILL: -- quote, an unparalleled action of Switzerland who was always stayed neutral before. I really need to underline that.

SCIUTTO: Not this time. Well, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has put out a global call to action urging foreign fighters to join his nation's defense of Ukraine. And he goes on to say, Europe in the world order as well. Ukraine's military and growing civilian volunteer forces are standing tall and defiant in the face of Russian aggression, despite being outgunned and outnumbered.

This morning, I spoke to some of those brave volunteers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO (voice-over): Young and old, students and retirees, veterans and non-veterans. These are the volunteers for Ukraine's citizens army, the Territorial Defense Force.

(on-camera): Tell me why you came to volunteer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We came to volunteer because we -- because Ukraine -- Ukrainian are the strong nation. And we feel that all Ukrainian are united.

SCIUTTO (voice-over): Zachary (ph) and Karil (ph), friends and university students say they're ready to fight. They're just 19.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are very proud of our army.

SCIUTTO (voice-over): This volunteer told us he's an excellent sharpshooter. He's 73.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translation): I'm a bit ill, but I'm ready to die for Ukraine. These are simple things.

SCIUTTO (voice-over): The challenge at recruiting posts in Lviv, too many volunteers. Many waiting days just to sign up. And at the blood bank here, too much blood. They're turning donors away now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translation): Blood donation center. We have many donors, around 400 people a day.

SCIUTTO (voice-over): As Russian forces invade their country, Ukrainians are helping any way they can. In the north, families are turning old clothes into camouflage nets to conceal tanks and trenches. This is not a symbolic effort, this is a real war with real dangers. Soldiers and civilians are dying.

[10:55:05]

(on-camera): Are you afraid for your lives because what you're volunteering to do is dangerous?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Actually, we're not afraid because we know that it's our home here. And we feel that if you won't have home, it's going to be -- it's better to die if not had home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

SCIUTTO (on-camera): Do you feel the same?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, of course. And giant of -- Churchill defense is the easiest way now to join army and help army.

SCIUTTO (voice-over): National spirit, and, as has now become familiar in this war, a few colorful words for Russia.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For Russian, hey, we will be in Kyiv for one day. Fuck yourself, guys.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Not the first time I've heard that kind of defiance here and I'm sure we'll hear it again. But boy, they're willing to sacrifice at all.

Thanks so much to all of you for joining us today. I'm Jim Sciutto in Lviv, Ukraine.

HILL: And I'm Erica Hill in New York. "At This Hour" with Kate Bolduan picks up after this quick break. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)