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New Large Explosions Heard In Ukraine's Capital; U.S. Cuts Off Russia's Central Bank From Dollar Transactions. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired February 28, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Brand new hour on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Victor Blackwell.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: I'm Alisyn Camerota.

We begin with large explosions heard in Ukraine's capital city, Kyiv.

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BLACKWELL: Right now, Ukraine controlled the city on the fifth day of the Russian attack.

CAMEROTA: A senior defense official warned that Vladimir Putin could get more aggressive towards Kyiv. Putin is reportedly frustrated by the resistance shown by Ukrainians. This video shows a Ukrainian drone stroke. But the Russians continue to attack and advance.

New video shows Russian rockets hitting one residential area in Kharkiv. That's Ukraine's second biggest city.

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CAMEROTA: Well, it's unclear where that firing is originating from.

BLACKWELL: But the video is consistent with other incidents in Kharkiv today. It appeared to show Russian rocket systems in action in Ukrainian neighborhoods. Russia insists it's not targeting Ukrainian civilians but satellite images showed a three-mile long convoy of Russian military trucks and tanks and infantry vehicles and artillery. We just learned it's now reached the outskirts of Kyiv.

The first round of talks between Russia and Ukraine happened today. The delegations met for more than five hours on the Belarus border. A Ukrainian official says the two sides established topics for further talks in coming days.

CAMEROTA: So, let's turn to Anderson Cooper. He is now in ground for us in Lviv, that's western Ukraine.

So, Anderson, just tell us what you're seeing around you.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Yeah, it's been relatively quiet tonight. It's been two moments of air raid sirens. People being told to go into basement and apartment buildings. But other than that, it's been relatively quiet.

We want to talk a little bit about what's been going on there on the front lines. I want to turn to CNN's Matthew Chance who is in Kyiv.

Matthew, first, what are we learning about these rocket attacks in the two largest cities in Ukraine, in Kyiv and also Kharkiv?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, well, first of all, it's been couple of rocket attacks or explosions, at least, on the outskirts of the capital, Kyiv, where I'm talking to you from now. It's not clear what was targeted in those explosions or what exactly is going on.

But as you mentioned, we do know that there's a large column of Russian armor in a total of something like three miles long. That's a huge amount of tanks and armored vehicles heading towards the city in what is anticipated to be an encirclement movement in preparation for a big push to seize the Ukrainian capital.

As that happens, we have seen a huge up surge in fighting in the second biggest city in Ukraine, Kharkiv, towards the northeast of the country. There had been a resilient offense of that city by Ukrainian defense forces and civilian who is have picked up arms to defend their home city. But now, what we seen is the Russians really redouble their attacks, their artillery strikes, their artillery apparently hitting civilian areas of the city earlier today in an attempt to overpower the defenses and potentially, of course, to take it which is clearly their objective.

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I think the concern here in Kyiv tonight is that may be the plan for the Ukrainian capital as well. So, it's been tension the past five or six days but that tension is very high. Although I have to say, the Ukrainian people are members of the civilian defense forces are very optimistic that they will be able to repel any Russian attack on this city.

COOPER: And, Matthew, one of the things that John Kirby, the Pentagon spokesperson, said just a few moments ago was despite the resilience of the Ukrainian forces and the spirit that they have and the incredible tough resistance they have put up thus far, the Russian forces haven't in full force be brought to bear and this column which is supposedly outside of Kyiv, that's a very ominous, potential advance into Kyiv.

I mean, what we're seeing, the weaponry they have their, the number of tanks, the artillery pieces and the like, and troops could get very bad in the next 24 hours.

CHANCE: Yeah, it could. I mean, look, I think it's absolutely right at this point to say that Vladimir Putin when he ordered this invasion did so with a military plan that was under powered. I think it was very optimistic in retrospect that he thought he would be able to send in special forces to secure airstrips around the capital. He thought that perhaps the military was going to tremble or defect to the Russian side, and that people in Ukraine would accept a Russian invasion. That quite simply has not happened.

I spoke to somebody the other day who is joined the territorial defense, the civilian defense forces, he said the day before the invasion, I knew I had no intention of picking up a gun and defending my country and defending my city but as soon as the Russian tanks rolled in, his mind set changed. He's not alone. That's what's happened to millions of people, hundreds of thousands of people all across this country. They decided to make a stand.

Now they've been sort of boosted by some early victories. Earlier today towards the northwest of the city where a big, huge Russian column of armor had been attacked. The Ukrainian forces stopped that advance in its tracks. They say to me, we think we can win this war now. Look what we have done here. The truth is, you know, if they decide to double down or triple down on the amount of force that's put in to bear on this conflict then those kinds of victories, those kinds of successes will be very hard for Ukrainian force to sustain.

COOPER: Yeah, Matthew Chance, appreciate it. A lot to get to. Appreciate it. Thank you.

I want to move onto Russia now. Our Fred Pleitgen is in the Belgorod region, right by Ukraine's border.

Fred, for days you have been watching tank, artillery pieces moving into Ukraine. Today you saw some problems that the Russians are dealing with.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, you're absolutely right, Anderson. One of the things we have seen is a lot of Russian military vehicles that have been broken down on the side of the road. It's something we have not only saw today but seen in the past couple of days as well. We really focused on today. We saw some vehicles that was remarkable to see broken down on the side of the road. We saw multiple rocket launcher which is quite long distance. It can shoot about 70 miles, unguided rocket. So, that was by the side of the road with some teams trying to fix it and a larger truck coming to tow it away. It's unclear how that could have happened. Whether the driver might have maneuvered it there not knowing the ground was soft.

But it is a recurring theme. It's something we're seeing a lot of. Vehicles having to be towed, trucks having to be towed. Certainly, armored vehicles also having to be towed as well.

Whether or not that indicates that maybe the gear that the Russians have brought to the front here is having trouble is difficult to say or whether or not it might be some sort of regular attrition that you might find in an operation of this size. It is something that does seem remarkable to us. One of the things, Anderson, that I need to say is tonight we're right

by the last check point where it goes towards the front line, towards Kharkiv, the last checkpoint on the Russian side. And we did hear some out going rocket artillery fire a couple of minutes before we went to air.

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And the area where I am right now, that is the Kharkiv front line. That is that town that today got hit by artillery rockets apparently in the civilian area, where civilians were hurt and repelled. And one of the things about the vantage point that we have here which is quite unique is that we can often see the Russians move military gear into certain positions and then actually see the repercussions on the battlefield as well.

And it was actually today that we did see several of those multiple rocket launchers called the Uragan move closer to the territory of Ukraine and move closer to Kharkiv as well. It's the same day you saw the strikes in the civilian areas. So, whether or not the Russians are intensifying their campaign there, very difficult to say from here.

But we already saw that technology, saw that gear move in towards the area today and obviously also saw the campaign for Kharkiv escalate today as well, Anderson.

COOPER: Yeah, Fred. I really appreciate you being there. CNN is trying to cover from as many locations as possible throughout this region, to give all you have a complete picture as best we can given the realities on the ground here. We're also getting a clear picture of the refugee crisis that Russia invasion has created in Ukraine on and on the border. The U.N. says more than half a million refugees have fled so far. Many of them crossing into Poland.

CNN senior correspondent Sara Sidner joins us now live from the Ukraine-Poland border.

Sara, what have you been seeing in the location you're at?

SARA SIDNER, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, there's an incredible number of people who just keep coming in waves. They are coming off the train. The tracks are here.

They are coming to Przemysl (ph), Poland. We're about 30 minutes or so to the border. The town that every one knows the name of, Medyka, that is the border crossing. You're seeing just waves and waves of people. We're talking about people who are Ukrainian and also talking about students from places like Nigeria and Cameroon and Nepal.

You have a lot of different people coming through here. Maybe there's misconception that you're only seeing people who are native to Ukraine but actually, there are a lot of people from a lot of different places that are trying to come through here. And what is incredible, they have this whole area set up.

I don't know if we can move just tad -- we're using a cell phone to do this. It was the only way we could get out live. There are goods and services in this room and in the room next to it in is the train station. This is normally where people come and get their ticket and then they get on the train.

Well, it's been turned into a huge area for people to get goods and services. When you show up from Ukraine, there are two things that you will see as you come through. You'll see this little note that basically says -- basically welcoming Ukrainians to Poland saying we're glad you're here. It offers you a place to stay. It offers you food if you want to go further into the country or need transportation. It offers that as well.

You can get that help. And then this is actually a way that you can get a job. You can just call the number here and you can apply for a job. So, they have this set up. So, as soon as people come in, they are really making an effort to make people feel welcome.

Now, obviously, they have gone through trauma, the most extreme kind of trauma. They are worried about, for example, there are, you know, mothers and children here who have to leave their husbands behind. There are children who had the leave their fathers behind.

There are families who had to leave elderly folks behind because perhaps they cannot travel. One of the things we are hearing that is very hard felt and very sad is some of the people from Nigeria, particularly black folks.

We spoke with a woman from Cameroon for example, and she said to me, look, the Ukrainian people have been wonderful to us. They have been here ten years. Her and her husband have been here, and they have a son who is five years old. Her name is Naya. She would only give me her first name because she said we fled Cameroon because there was trouble there. We came here and were able to go to school and work in Ukraine and then this happened.

And when it came to trying the leave, she says they were treated very differently. They were pushed off the train. They were shoved. They were treated very poorly. They were left in a train station along with many others for two days on a train that usually takes two hours. She said she's seen a noticeable difference between the way Black folks are being treated here and the way the Ukrainians treated.

However, she said she had been in her time living in Ukraine had been treated wonderfully. She said people are nice.

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People are helpful. People want her to do well in that country. But she did notice very big difference when trying to flee with every one else -- Anderson.

COOPER: Sara Sidner, appreciate it. We'll continue checking with you in the hours ahead.

Alisyn, when we cross over today from Poland into Ukraine, there are just hundreds and thousands of women and children who are arriving at the border check point. They are confused. They are hungry. They are tired. They have families that have been separated. It's just a tragic scene to see. There was the body of a man laying on the ground. It was an he was an elderly man who died from cold and exhaustion of getting to the border.

But there's so many people in need at this hour along that border and all throughout Ukraine tonight.

CAMEROTA: Anderson, it's so helpful to have you and Sara on the ground to show us what's happening. Thank you. We'll check back with you momentarily.

So, are the U.S. and European sanctions already hurting Russia? Several signs point to yes. The Russian central bank more than doubled key interest rate today and Moscow's stock market was closed after the ruble plunged nearly 30 percent. It will be closed tomorrow too.

So, joining us now is former Treasury Department spokesperson, Hagar Chemali. She was the senior policy advisor in the Treasury Department sanctions division when Russia annexed Crimea in 2014.

Hagar, thank you so much for being here.

So, you say the economic sanctions, this time, are unprecedented and they will really hit incredibly hard. Specifically, how will they hurt Putin?

HAGAR CHEMALI, FORMER TREASURY DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: These sanctions are the toughest I've seen. I've worked in sanctions since 2006. It's not that we have imposed similar sanctions before. Those sanctions are tough, if not tougher. It's because of Russia integration into the international financial system, these are really hit hard. Because of the actions we have action that seem to have taken President Putin by surprise, they're also going to hit that much harder because he has assets and the country has assets in Europe, in the United States, in Switzerland.

This action regarding the central bank is unbelievable because Russia has a number of -- outside of the country, 6 percent are in the United States, 13 percent are in France, for example. Another percentage, they have assets all over and they will be unable to access most of those.

They have 20 percent that are Russian but the ruble has crashed. They have 13 percent in China. I guess they can access those. The reason it's important they can't access is because that's money they have over 640 billion in reserves, that's money they could use to prop up the ruble and finance the violence machine in Ukraine now and now they won't be able to do that.

CAMEROTA: And you're talking, is this -- what you're talking about, the 640 billion in reserves, that's the so-called rainy day fund that Putin has been amassing to insulate himself for this very occasion, in this case there were sanctions. Why this time can't he access it?

CHEMALI: That's right. The reason he can't access it is because the sanctions that have been announced prohibit U.S. persons and European persons from -- and persons, individuals and businesses from engaging in any transactions with the central bank. That doesn't mean their assets are actually frozen. But if there are no transactions that are allowed, then the money can't be accessed for use.

It doesn't shield President Putin. For anybody that thinks it shields him personally, it can't. It's not his own personal money is within the central bank, is that a move like this affects all of Russia's economy. And it crashes the currency and prevents a lot of transactions and (INAUDIBLE) to go through. That will basic him personally unless he has U.S. dollars in cash under a mattress at his secret palace.

And even then I don't think he can use it. There's no way this isn't going to affect him personally as well, all of the oligarchs and their businesses and the economy altogether.

CAMEROTA: What about the SWIFT system? That's the financial system that until even -- I mean, as recently as last week, President Biden had been reluctant to ban Russia from that. But today, that's happening. So, in layman's terms, what does that mean?

CHEMALI: That's right. SWIFT is like the WhatsApp of financial messaging. That is the term I took from my colleague at the Atlantic Council. And what it means is that it's a messaging system that carries all of the secure information related to all financial transactions. So, money doesn't actually go to through SWIFT.

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It's just the messaging.

But you can rest assured that it's secure. It says who the source is. It says what the money should be done with.

And the majority of U.S. financial institutions use that system for all financial transactions. The action that the Biden administration and Europe took regarding SWIFT now, you can see was very deliberate and surgical and careful where they identified Russian financial institutions that would be cut off from SWIFT.

But they didn't cut off all the country and they didn't cut off all of the financial institutions to minimize the backlash on U.S. and European businesses and global markets, particularly as they relate to oil, gas, iron and steel.

CAMEROTA: Hagar Chemali, thank you very much for all the information, really interesting.

BLACKWELL: Officials warn that Russia could take a more aggressive approach as Putin attempts to take the capital city of Kyiv. We have new details about that and how Ukrainians are fighting back.

CAMEROTA: And new information about Russian troops on the ground. There are reports of low morale and confusion about their mission. We have the latest from Ukraine. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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CAMEROTA: New video just in to CNN shows residence of a small town deploying barricades and crude metal spikes on this road, main road to stop an advancing convoy of Russian military vehicles. The Ukrainian army is outmanned and outgunned, but the will power and courage of Ukrainian troops and civilians is exceeding expectations. Still, Pentagon spokesman John Kirby warned last hour that Russia still has significant combat power and capability.

Joining us now is retired Lieutenant General Ben Hodges, former commanding general of U.S. Army Europe from 2014 to 2017. He's also the Pershing chair of strategic studies at the Center for European Policy Analysis.

General, thanks so much for being here.

So, by all accounts, the Ukrainian fight has been more than Russia anticipated. Is the thinking that this means that Putin will now use more lethal force in more populated areas, next?

LT. GEN. BEN HODGES (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Well, Alisyn, I think you're right. Clearly, the Kremlin and the general staff are going to become frustrated because they are doing so poorly. They are behind on their timelines and they can sense that Ukrainian forces are growing stronger and gaining momentum.

So, much like they did, I think they're going to turn increasingly to brute force which means civilians and towns and infrastructure will be targeted. I've been struck by what your reporters have been saying about the indicator of poor discipline and poor readiness. What we call readiness, the maintenance.

It's the dead giveaway if you have broken vehicles up and down the road, that's a dead give away the units aren't disciplined and they haven't been doing what they are supposed to do to get ready for an invasion, and they got maintenance problems. That tells you about the culture and probably a lot of false reporting going on.

I've been struck by the -- we have all seen videos of pictures of convoys that were struck by Ukrainian artillery and drones and how close the vehicles are along the road. That's another dead give away of a unit that's not trained and prepared entering combat, but they that are following almost bumper to bumper. So many commanders have been killed at major, lieutenant colonel level, this is because headquarters, their radios are broadcasting in the clear, Ukrainians are finding them and killing them with artillery.

All of this to say, the Russians have not trained at the level that you would expect for them to get ready to do an invasion. They are not ready for this.

CAMEROTA: That's really interesting to hear. Meanwhile, I mean, it does sound as though Putin is upping the ante at

least rhetorically because he has said he's putting his nuclear defense on alert. What does that mean?

HODGES: Well, of course, I listen to Ambassador Hertz earlier and agree completely with him that President Putin, to threaten nukes cost him nothing. To use them, that will cost him everything.

I think part of this is for the Russians to try to dissuade us from -- NATO from thinking about putting in a no fly zone, for example, which would mean having NATO aircraft oaf Ukraine and that would be a whole different category. So, I think part of the nuclear threats is designed to deter us from that.

I'm also concerned this referendum in Belarus yesterday, three outcomes. Lukashenko gets a lifetime immunity, neutrality comes out of the institution and Belarus weapons nuclear weapons. So, now, we're potentially going to have nuclear weapons in Belarus as well as in Russia.

CAMEROTA: One of the things you were talking about in terms of what you have seen on the road from Russian troops, I just want to pull up the satellite images of this, we have been told three-mile long convoy of Russian artillery weapons. This is a supply chain, we think. It's right outside of Kyiv.

It appears to me, I mea, obviously, you're the military but aren't they sitting ducks just sitting there? Isn't that something the Ukrainian army could hit as a target?

HODGES: Yeah. For sure they will because Ukraine, remember they have been at war for eight years and they learned a lot over the last eight years -- particularly, how to use drones and to connect what they see, with their own artillery and rockets.