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Pentagon: Russian Troops Seeing "Logistics and Sustainment Problems"; Russian Invasion Hits Stiff Resistance, Supply Line Problems; Ukrainian Navy: Snake Island Defenders Alive and Well; U.S. Expelling 12 Russians from Russia's U.N. Mission; UN: 500,000+ Refugees Have Fled Ukraine to Neighboring Nations. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired February 28, 2022 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

LT. GEN, BEN HODGES (RET.), U.S. ARMY: And so, when you see in combat, a column like that that is parked bumper to bumper, this is a unit that does not have good sergeants. They don't have good discipline and they haven't been training in realistic environments. This is very, very hard. So, what we're seeing is the result of a I think a culture of probably false reporting inside the Russian army.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: So, General, from your expertise, what is going to happen next? What should the Ukrainians and the world community brace for this week?

HODGES: Well, clearly Russia is going to start resorting to more and more blunt force. I don't see them just backing out but they will make up for their lack of high level of training. They will make up for it with more blunt force and with mass. So, that's going to be one thing.

So, what does that mean for us? That means Ukrainians are going to continue to need anti-tank weapons, air defense weapons and you can sort of feel the power of Western Europe and the United States really pushing these things in. We've got to keep doing that.

But also, Turkey deciding that it's going to close the straits, the Turkish straits the Bosporus and Dardanelles to Russian navy ship. This is a huge deal. First time ever. And this was will send also a signal to Russia that they are -- they've got to deal with problems other than what's right in front of them in Ukraine.

CAMEROTA: President Erdogan's response has definitely been unexpected. Lieut. Gen. Ben Hodges, thank you.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Russian troops are weighed down by low morale, also confusion and analysts say morale will sink even lower. Plus, an update on the Ukrainian force who said this after being

confronted by that Russian warship.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am repeating, I am Russian military ship propose to put down arms or you will be hit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Russian warship, go f*** yourself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[15:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: I'm Anderson cooper in Lviv in western Ukraine. The Kremlin increasingly frustrated by Ukrainian resistance. Small acts of defiance like barricades and crude metal spikes aimed at stopping larger convoys. He also see large tires often on the side of the road at roadblocks. CNN's Phil Black reports on how Putin's war may not be going as he planned.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The smoking wreckage of Russian armored vehicles on the outskirts of Kyiv. While in the eastern city of Chuguiv, Russian forces are seen awkwardly retreating with more of their hardware ultimately lost or abandoned to Ukraine's defense.

It's all evidence of an unexpected early twist in this vastly uneven war. Ukrainian forces are holding the line with Russian failing to take any key cities so far.

This Ukrainian military spokesman said the enemy is demoralized and has suffered heavy losses. Russia has acknowledged casualties without confirming numbers. From a distance, independent Western experts believe Ukraine's assessment is largely accurate.

ED ARNOLD, ROYAL UNITED SERVICES INSTITUTE: The morale within Russian forces will be incredibly low. And unless the Russians could get temperance in their operations, can get a victory, a very clear Victory, I think morale will decrease on the Russian side.

BLACK: You believe very firmly that the Ukrainian resistance is more spirited than they would have expected.

ARNOLD: Absolutely, and at this point I think it's actually, possibly a decisive factor.

BLACK (voice over): Observers say a key Russian mistake was making false assumptions about the nature of the fight.

MATHIEU BOULEGUE, RUSSIA AND EURASIAN PROGRAM, CHATHAM HOUSE: Ukraine would sort of lay down their arms. Would surrender very quickly. They would be able to decapitate the command in control of the Ukrainian forces extremely quickly in the initial parrot of war, these first few days of the campaign. This has not happened.

BLACK (voice over): Smaller tactical errors have also been costly. Like allowing Ukraine's drones to hunt freely.

ARNOLD: Very surprising consider the Air Force hasn't neutralized the Ukrainian drone capability and also that the troops on the ground seem oblivious to the fact that they were being targeted.

BLACK (voice over): Another theory. Russian forces may have been holding back trying to take big cities with lighter forces hoping to inflict minimum damage. But Ukraine's resistance could trigger a switch to what experts say is Russia's traditional military doctrine, overwhelming force.

BLACK: You're pointing to a scenario where there will be far greater bloodshed.

ARNOLD: It's a calculation on their part about how brutal they are willing to go. Because ultimately if you destroy Kyiv and they've lost the political ability to then install a government that is pro-Russian able to govern the country.

[15:40:00]

BLACK (voice over): Ukraine's only possible military strategy is somehow holding out. Inflicting costs, limiting Russian wins. To the surprise and admiration of many, it's working, so far.

Phil Black, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, there've been reports of air raid sirens in the Ukrainian city of Mykolaiv along the Black Sea. The mayor there wrote a Facebook post encouraging residents to come out and resist as a -- in his words -- a significant amount of Russian armor is reportedly heading their way. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is in Odessa with us tonight. Nick, what's the latest you're hearing?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Yes, certainly Mykolaiv is on edge tonight. We saw ourselves exactly what the level of Russian fire power they are willing to throw at that town is. We're now in Odessa where we are in obviously a blackout. Some sort of curfew imposed on the city.

Some relatively good news has emerged from what's now become a kind of one the ongoing legends of this war. The fate of the individuals of Snake Island. Ukrainian servicemen who essentially told Russian ships that told them to surrender, where to go. They used slightly more colorful language for that. They had been all pronounced dead by President Volodymyr Zelensky in a statement he gave. But it subsequently transpired they appeared on Russian state media. And now the Ukrainian Navy says they may all, all 82 of them in fact be alive and have surrender when their ammo finally expired. All these statements very hard to verify. But Snake island is quite

close comparatively to where I stand here in Odessa. And we have seen, Anderson, this drip of, frankly, bad news emerging across the coast for Ukraine here. The town of Kherson that I was in about four days age there was a fierce battle for a key bridge across that allowed Russia to get forces up from Crimea towards Kyiv. That bridge seems to change hands. It seems according to eyewitnesses I've spoken to that there are now Russian Tigre armored vehicles driving around parts of Kherson. That leaves a lot of those people in those cities troubled because they are not clear who is in control at this stage. They see Ukrainian forces slip back.

In Mykolaiv, as you mentioned, there are deep concerns that maybe some sort of Russian onslaught tonight. The mayor made a similar warning last night asking everyone to form a circular defense and get Molotov cocktails. Tonight, he asked the men to go out on the streets and defend the city and the women to stay indoors. The kind of fire power there using extraordinary -- the Russians frankly. They seem to try and move in with a huge onslaught and hope that local defenses will collapse.

The wall of fear though, Anderson, is that we're looking at a sort of move west from forces that may have managed to get up from Crimea and span essentially towards here, Odessa, which is the third largest city in Ukraine. A strategic port, vital for its economy and currently on the state of almost panic. The streets are empty. Barricades, the fences everywhere. It's pitch-black right now. We heard sirens earlier on today. It's unclear what's coming here. But everybody knows this is an important place for Moscow to say they have control over -- Anderson.

ANDERSON: Maybe for one night. Nick Paton Walsh be careful, thank you.

I want to go back right now to Alisyn and Victor.

CAMEROTA: OK, Anderson, thank you very much. More than half a million people are trying to escape the war in Ukraine.

So up next, we're going to speak with a Ukrainian American woman whose husband was forced to flee.

BLACKWELL: Also, were getting the latest that the U.S. is expelling 12 Russian diplomats. We'll have the latest on that after the break.

[15:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: We're just getting some breaking developments. The United States is expelling 12 Russian diplomats from Russia's mission to the U.N.

So, let's get to CNN's national security correspondent Kylie Atwood. Kylie, what are you learning?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the United States mission to the U.N. announcing, that they are going to be expelling 12 Russians who they say are engaging in espionage. Essentially that they are spying while they are here technically is diplomats in New York City at the United Nations. I want to read to you what the tweet said from the U.S. -- U.N. spokesperson Olivia Dalton, saying quote: The U.S. has informed the Russian mission that we're beginning the process of expelling 12 intelligence operatives from the Russian mission who have abused their privileges of residency in the U.S. by engaging in espionage activity that are adverse to our national security.

Now she goes on in a second tweet to say that this action today has been months in the working. That this wasn't that the United States ruled out because of the crisis that is unfolding in Ukraine, of course.

Now we have the Russians saying that they do not support this. That these folks were here as diplomats. They are calling this sad news. But of course, this comes at an incredibly tense moment diplomatically. And although the United States is saying that this action doesn't have anything correlation to what is happening with the Ukraine crisis. It comes as there's been this tit for tat diplomacy between the United States and Russia over the last several month, over the last several years. And because of that situation, the United States is really operating with skeletal staff at the United States embassy in Moscow right now.

And we haven't seen yet what Russia is going to do in response to this, to the United States expelling these 12 Russians because of spying here in the United States.

[15:50:00]

But rest assured that they are likely to respond and of course, who this creates an even more challenging situation facing the United States and Russia relations as this crisis is unfolding in Ukraine.

CAMEROTA: It just gets more challenging. Kylie Atwood thank you for that breaking news.

BLACKWELL: More than 120,000 refugees have left Ukraine in just the past 24 hours. That's according to Ukraine's border control. In all, more than a half million people have left the country. And many more are trying to get out. Crowds of mostly women and children were packed at a train station, hoping to get across the border to safety. Ukrainian American artist Ola Rondiak joins me now. Thank you so much for your time. Your husband Petro lives in Kyiv. But as the attacks intensified, he decided to leave. Is he safe? Where is he now in.

OLA RONDIAK, HUSBAND JUST FLED UKRAINE: Yes, unfortunately, he really didn't want to leave but my brother-in-law called me and then I called him early morning and said it's time to go. He is a strong patriot and he's helping his team a lot. He's safe now. Thank you.

BLACKWELL: You know, our correspondents have brought us these stories of people who have had these 16-hour, 36-hour, two-day journeys to get to Poland, to get to some safety. How was your husband's journey? RONDIAK: It was long but not as long as people after him. Because he

did get out early and it was about ten hours to the border and then another six or so, about a 20-hour journey. So, he feels very fortunate. He was greeted by very friendly people with tea and sandwiches and a place to rest. So, he's just trying to stay connected as much as possible to his team and to Ukraine and to help in any way he can.

BLACKWELL: What are you feeling as you watch this? I read a bit about your history. Obviously, your husband's home there in Kyiv. First generation Ukrainian American, your parents survived a war. As you watch all that we've seen over the last five days, what do you think? What do you feel?

RONDIAK: It is truly horrifying. It's unbelievable. We're all trying to stay strong here because Ukraine strength is insurmountable. They're definitely going down in history as, you know, courageous, courageous, brave people of honor that are keeping an anchor for democracy for the entire world. So, we're just trying to help them out. I'm texting and talking on the phone throughout the night with friends and family there. And trying to see how else we can help along the way. And they're really, really grateful for the support from the West. And we really hopeful that it continues. Because they need some more military equipment, humanitarian aid, first-aid, bullet-proof vests.

BLACKWELL: Tell me about -- I apologize for interrupting there's a bit of a delay. Go ahead.

RONDIAK: Sorry. Yes. They're really not asking anybody to fight their fight for them. Just for some assistance so they can do what they can. I mean, there's all kinds of, you know, there's a lot of stories that you've been covering and getting the word out, you know, including teachers teaching in bunkers and you know, people who had, you know -- there was a story today about a friend's friend who had prosthetic legs. That he lost his legs in the war in 2014 because, you know, this is a prolongation of what began in the east eight years ago when Russia illegally annexes Crimea and entered Ukraine -- in eastern Ukraine. And he was fighting again with two prosthetic legs and he just lost his life. So, there are so many heroes there that are along with the heroic Ukrainian army. A lot of heroic civilians doing the best that they can.

BLACKWELL: Yes, and we are seeing some of that as the U.S. intel is that Russia, Putin specifically, surprised by the fight that he is seeing from the Ukrainian military and Ukrainian civilians as well. Ola Rondiak, thank you so much for spending some time with us to share your story.

And for more information about how you can help humanitarian efforts in Ukraine, go to CNN.com/impact.

CAMEROTA: We're just getting this just in to CNN. The International Criminal Court now opening an investigation into the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Our breaking news coverage continues after this very quick break. [15:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: At last night's Screen Actors' Guild Awards, Ukraine was front and center. Several stars pay tribute to the people in Ukraine suffering. Actor Michael Keaton took a moment to honor Ukraine's President Zelensky.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL KEATON, ACTOR: I swear to God, I'm so grateful for things like this. This is nice. I will tell you we have a fellow actor in Zelensky who deserves some credit tonight for fighting the fight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: And while accepting the SAG award for the "Succession" ensemble cast, Brian Cox her support for Russian performers who opposed the invasion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN COX, ACTOR: The thing that really distressed me is what's happening in Russia to my fellow actors and actresses and performers and writers and critics. They are told under pain of high treason that they cannot say a word about Ukraine. And I think that is pretty awful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Yes, so we obviously heard from Hollywood last night. We just heard, as you said, right before the break from the International Criminal Court in the Hague. Opening an investigation, quote, rapidly as possible. There is reasonable basis to believe that both alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity have been committed in Ukraine.

So, that investigation launching soon.

CAMEROTA: Yes, that's a big development. Meanwhile, around the world this weekend, thousands of people gathered in support of Ukraine. There were rallies across Europe in cities including Berlin, Rome, Paris, Amsterdam of course, right here in the U.S. in D.C. Major land marks were lit up in blue and yellow, the colors of the Ukrainian flag in solidarity with the country.

BLACKWELL: In New York, one woman said that she hasn't slept in three nights because she's so worried about her loved ones in Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OLGA LADYGINA, TIMES SQUARE RALLY ATTENDEE, ORIGINALLY FROM KYIV: I think that whole world right now needs to unite. Because the history, all that's European, and now the time to stop. It was the same thing when the second world war started. But now is the time to say no and to stop one person who keeps in fear the whole world. (END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: I think that such an interesting -- a good point. That one person, Vladimir Putin, is doing this and I think the actors at the Screen Actors Guild award made the point. You have to draw a distinction between Russians and the Kremlin.

BLACKWELL: Yes, this is not Russia's ward, is Putin's war.

[16:00:00]

CAMEROTA: That's right. And Russians as we have seen, have also bravely taken to the streets and promptly been rounded up and jailed because they're against Putin's war.

BLACKWELL: Yes, more than 6,000 at the last count. We also have President Zelensky saying that anyone who wants to join the defense of Ukraine, come and stand with us. Fight by our side. We don't know who's going to take that up but that's a call from Ukraine.

"THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts now.