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Ukraine, Russia to Hold Second Round of Talks Today; Russian Attacks Intensifying Across Ukraine; More Civilian Targets Struck as Russia Ramps Up Attacks. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired March 02, 2022 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: A good Wednesday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto reporting from Russia's war in Ukraine, in Lviv, Ukraine.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Erica hill in New York this morning.

Ukraine confirming they will attend renewed talks with the Kremlin, this is after Russian troops continue to attack several major cities in Ukraine overnight.

Russia targeting civilians in multiple attacks throughout the country. These images showing the extensive damage you see here in the city of Kyiv, an auto parts store, rockets raining down on a maternity clinic, near a Holocaust memorial site, several businesses hit as well.

SCIUTTO: What do those all have in common? They're civilian targets, they're not military targets.

Right now, Russia says its forces have taken full control of the southern city of Kherson. CNN has not been able to verify those claims. Ukraine denies the city has fallen.

CNN has just learned that General Mark Milley, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, is epected to go to Europe tonight to meet with his NATO counterparts.

Our reporters and correspondents are on the ground throughout Ukraine, in Russia, as well as back home in the U.S. Let's begin this morning with CNN National Security Correspondent Alex Marquardt, he is in the capital, Kyiv.

And, Alex, you've been visiting the site of some of these Russian strikes. The Russians say they're not hitting civilians or civilian targets. You see something very different. Tell us what you saw.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Jim. I mean, we heard just today from the Kremlin spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, saying it would be out of the question to target civilian infrastructure or residences. We saw the exact opposite. Now, it was clear that the target for the Russians yesterday was this T.V. tower, a very tall tower, about three miles outside the center of Kyiv. It was hit with a direct missile strike. The building next to it suffered a fair bit of damage there, lots of debris and glass. But all around, you had -- well, that is a civilian infrastructure target. It's not military.

And then across the street where we spent most of the day, you had an auto parts store, a gym, all of their windows blown out, people picking up the debris. We met a woman named Katarina (ph), who was cleaning out her shop along with her staff, throwing insulation and glass and debris out the window. At the gym next door, there was still a fire almost 24 hours later, all of the gym equipment covered in dust and other debris. That was where five Ukrainians were killed, five civilians.

So, this notion that they are not targeting or hitting civilian infrastructure is just ridiculous. That site was also next to a Jewish memorial called Babyn Yar. The whole area, in fact, is known as Babyn Yar. This is where a horrific massacre took place in 1941. Over the course of two days, more than 30,000 Jews were killed during the Holocaust. And people have remarked that this attack is coming from President Putin who is claiming to want to de-Nazify Ukraine, and yet he is attacking this site where so many Jews were killed.

Now, it does appear, Jim, that the Russians are expanding the way that they are targeting, not just from military but broadening it out into communications and information, and that, we believe, is why that tower was targeted. They know that they are suffering in this information war, that they have completely lost control of the narrative. They said outwardly yesterday they want to suppress these information attacks against Russia, so we have seen a number of strikes against information targets, and we should expect that to continue.

A lot of experts were wondering why haven't they tried to impose any sort of information blackout. They do appear to be trying to step up the attacks on the information infrastructure, and at the same time warning civilians to move away from that infrastructure. So, they are acknowledging that civilians are very much in the line of fire. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Yes. They call them information attacks. Another word for those are reports from the ground to show what's actually happening on the ground here. Alex Marquardt, thanks so much for bringing us that vision.

[10:05:00]

This morning, Kherson's city council, this is a city in the southern part of the country, says at least 36 people have been killed there as the fight continues. Ukraine denies reports the city has fallen. Russia claims to have it.

CNN International Security Editor Nick Paton Walsh, he is in Odessa, Ukraine, but has been in and around Kherson a number of times. Nick, you have presence in the city. There seems to be video showing now Russian tanks on the streets, and you have the question of control of that city. What is our best knowledge as to what's happening there right now in Kherson?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: There is very clear local resistance to the Russian presence. Much of what I've seen is peaceful in terms of the videos, at one specific one that shows a man standing in the middle of Freedom Square in front of two or three Russian armored vehicles waiving two Ukrainian flags. I heard from a resident that people have been chanting near the local administration building, we are Ukraine, we are independent country, for a lot of the day.

We have seen videos of Russian troops with full shopping carts wheeling them around, clearly involved in looting, or they might suggest fulfilling the lack of supply lines that have often imperiled their advance and also videos of men being led away at gunpoint by Russian troops.

Jim, this is what everybody feared may occur. If you eventually say to Russian troops that have been in battle for some time, who have no supply lines behind them, if they are allowed to then move into populated areas that desperately do not want to see them there. 36 dead in just about 48 hours is a significant toll for a town that was just so peaceful and desperately hoping that the fighting raging on its eastern outskirts for the bridge there that's strategically vital as it heads up from Crimea that Russia controlled up towards the north, that that fighting would not disturb their life there. But, clearly, the Russian plan involved moving into there and we've seen armored vehicles across it.

So, deep concerns that this may be the new way of life in Kherson, but also a question, Jim, where does this end for these Russian forces? Do they have some sort of civilian administration that's going to race in and keep things rolling, or is their job, just it seems, to get into clashes and kill locals and to the point where that stops? We've seen in other places how that simply isn't the case.

And this forms, Jim, part of a pressure that's building across the Black Sea towards where I'm standing in Odessa. Mykolaiv, another port city, that's been under intense pressure too of a fear being that we've heard from Ukrainian defense officials, there are Russian ships over the horizon here, real concerns, this is their target where I'm standing. Jim?

SCIUTTO: There's been talk and U.S. intel assessments for some time of an amphibious landing there. We'll see if it materializes. Nick Paton Walsh in Odessa, thank you so much.

CNN International Diplomatic Editor Nic Robertson, he is in Moscow. Nic, Ukraine confirms they will attend these talks with the Kremlin up on the Belarus-Ukraine border. The fact is while they're talking sporadically, the war continues here, civilians are dying. Is this a delay tactic, a distraction by the Russians? Is there substance to these talks? What do we know? NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It's really not clear, Jim. We know that the Kremlin says that their team will be there, and they're expecting if the Ukrainians turn up, we now know the Ukrainians are turning up, they expect talks this evening, five hours of talks.

Two days ago, both sides clearly engaged at a certain level but came away with nothing concrete. I mean, the understood positions at the moment are that, you know, Russia is saying, you've got to demilitarize and we're going to change the leadership. That seems to be the Russian position, and the Ukrainian position appears to be you need to stop shooting and go back to -- take your forces out of the aggressive positions and forward positions that they're in now. We don't really have good sight on the content of that discussion.

Is Russia engaging in good faith? They haven't so far. It's hard to see how they are at the moment. President Putin is in a significant hole, if you will. His stated goal is to de-Nazify the country, demilitarize the country, that means get rid of leadership, get rid of the military. That's his stated goal. It's very hard to him backing down from that at the moment.

But the lack of direction, if you will, the lack of information coming from the Kremlin gives no clue. And certainly on state media here, you get zero sense of the civilian death toll, you get zero idea of how many buildings are being damaged in civilian neighborhoods, so you don't get an idea at all of, you know, the Kremlin struggling to achieve its goals. That's not something Russians are hearing about at all.

SCIUTTO: That's what happens when the state controls the media. Of course, the de-Nafizy argument, a manufactured one, preposterous one, here in this country. Nic Robertson, good to have you in Moscow.

[10:10:00]

Let's speak now to Kira Rudik. She is a Ukrainian member of parliament, also leader of the Golos Party. Thanks so much for joining us this morning.

KIRA RUDIK, UKRAINIAN MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT: Hello. Good evening.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you first. We were just speaking to my colleague, Nic, in Moscow. Do you think there is a point to these talks between the Ukraine and Russia as Russia continues to attack the country here, including civilians?

RUDIK: I personally don't see any points of these talks, and as a citizen of Ukraine who had a fight with Russia and war with Russia for eight years, I can give you some tips and tricks on Putin's rhetoric. When he is saying, I want peace, this means get your Kalashnikov and prepare to war. If he says, I want peaceful negotiation, as he did like two days ago, this means, I am gathering my missiles and I will be attacking your cities twice as hard as I was doing before.

So, no, we don't see any points in these peaceful negotiations. These are just attempts on the collective west and Putin to exchange notes, to exchange positions. And the only thing that Ukraine can take of it is to get Putin to say it out loud that he only will stop fighting when we forfeit our aim to become E.U. members or to become members of NATO, which we are not going to do.

SCIUTTO: Ukrainian forces are fighting bravely but Russian forces are advancing, and they have a tremendous numerical and weapons advantage. Is the U.S., is the NATO giving Ukraine enough military assistance, or are they letting the Ukrainian people down?

RUDIK: Well, first of all, I am super thankful for all the support that we are getting so far. It has been tremendous. And it has not only been like physical or military or economic, it also has been emotional and motivation al.

However, there is one point that we do need from our western partners, and it's a no-fly zone over Ukraine. I know it's hard to do, and I know people were saying, oh, it will start World War III or something. But I also can tell you that what we learned from Putin is to do whatever he wants and then say it was not him. And right now, we really need our partners to bend some rules to help Ukraine stand up and to help Ukraine survive, because without the support from the air, it will be very hard to oppose Putin.

We are already fighting very hard on the land, and we will be able to keep him out and keep him away for a long time. But without the support from the air, we will not be able to win. This, for sure, this is logic and this is the harsh reality. That's why we need the support and we need it now before he bombards all of our cities to the ground.

We are ready fight. We are fighting bravely and we will be able to push him back. But without the support of our partners, it will be very hard for us to win this war as we want to win it.

SCIUTTO: Yes. As you know, the harsh reality is that the U.S. and NATO are refusing such a no-fly zone because of the point you cite there, that that would put U.S.-NATO forces directly in conflict with Russian forces, and they fear an escalation to a broader war.

If that doesn't happen, if that no-fly zone doesn't come, what happens then to the Ukrainian resistance?

RUDIK: Well, Ukrainian resistance will fight to the end, that I can assure you of. The question then would be is that our western partners will have the -- if we fail for some reason, they will have a huge Russian satellite in the center of Europe. Is this something that anybody would want? I don't think so.

So, again, we are not fighting a war, Russia versus Ukraine, we are fighting a war that is civilizational. We are fighting a war between the past and the future, the European Union future or the Russian empire future, the good guys versus bad guys. And in this war, we are on the same side with our western partners. And if we are on the same side, then we need all the help and support to win. Because if we lose, then Putin gets stronger, then he is able to conquer more and more countries. Is there any nation in the world that wants that? I don't think so. I don't think even Russian nation wants that right now. So, for us to make it happen, to make sure Ukraine wins, we need the support, we need all the help that we can get.

[10:15:01]

And I honestly don't care, political, how it is called. Is it called aid or support or is it called getting into it or not?

And as a politician, I do understand the complications here. But as a Ukrainian citizen, as a woman, as a mother, I can tell you that every single day we're losing people, people are losing lives, and we need support and we need it right now.

SCIUTTO: Kira Rudik, thank you, and I do, and we wish you and your family safety.

RUDIK: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, still to come this hour, as those Ukrainian and Russian delegations prepare to meet again as the war rages here in Ukraine, the Ukrainian foreign minister tells our Christiane Amanpour that China and India can help. How? Christiane joins us next.

HILL: Plus, as U.S. lawmakers push ahead on cybersecurity protection legislation, we have a reality check for you on the key infrastructure at risk and if the U.S. is really prepared for Russian retaliation.

Also this hour, Supreme Court Justice Nominee Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson is on Capitol Hill meeting with senators, you see her there with Senator Schumer. Just ahead, a look at the hard questions she could face in the coming weeks.

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JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: Six days ago, Russia's Vladimir Putin sought to shake the very foundation of the free world, thinking he could make it bend to his menacing ways. But he badly miscalculated. He thought he could roll into Ukraine and the world would roll over. Instead he met with a wall of strength he never anticipated or imagined. He met the Ukrainian people.

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SCIUTTO: That one of the several times last night that there was bipartisan applause for President Biden as he spoke of Ukraine and its fight during his state of the union address, arguing that Putin's aggression has only made the world's democracy strengthen their resolve to counter autocracies.

HILL: And, of course, this comes as Ukrainian presidential aide tells CNN the second round of talks between Ukraine and Russia will take place today in Belarus. What will come of that remains to be seen.

CNN Chief International Anchor Christiane Amanpour joining us. So, Christiane, you spoke with Ukraine's foreign minister yesterday. What did he tell you? Where is he at in this moment?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, look, we reached him in his, I mean, we described as a bunker, an undisclosed location, but, nonetheless, in Kyiv, in Ukraine, to talk to him about how he saw this playing out and, of course, as the increased targeting of civilians was taking place.

And what he said was actually very interesting, because he said he had spoken to the Chinese foreign minister, his counterpart. And that's really important because the Chinese, you remember the famous pictures of the beginning of the Olympics, when President Xi and Putin basically declared a no-holds barred, anything goes friendship.

Well, now the Chinese have actually switched since this invasion and since the targeting of civilians and have even mentioned civilians in their worry about civilians and have called on -- that's a big concern, and they have offered to help in any kind of de-escalation.

This is what the Ukrainian foreign minister, Kuleba, told me.

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DMYTRO KULEBA, UKRAINE FOREIGN MINISTER: He assured me that China is not interested in this war and is ready to seek peaceful solution of this conflict through diplomacy.

So, I appealed to the Chinese foreign minister and also to the Indian foreign minister to take advantage of their leverage on Putin, of their relations with Russia, and urge Putin to stop this war immediately.

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AMANPOUR: So, again, very important because China obviously has a huge leverage and huge intricate relationship with Putin himself, so does India. And also William Cohen, the former U.S. defense secretary, said Israel could play an important role in this as well. So, in other words, get the countries who may still might have some kind of in or influence with Putin to do something about it.

And Kuleba is also again calling on the U.N. to strip Russia of its U.N. Security Council seat, saying that it just inherited the old USSR seat and nobody voted for it, and that was in '91-'92.

SCIUTTO: It would be remarkable for China, in particular, given its closer relationship with Russia, to act as a mediator here.

I wonder, Christiane, we've watched and reported on so many wars. There is an actual tendency to root for the wronged, right? And we are seeing Ukraine have remarkable success defending itself, but it is still outnumbered, it is outgunned. Are we possibly overestimating Ukraine's chances of holding off this advance? AMANPOUR: Look, I feel one really has to watch it daily, hour by hour. You know, I lived this in Sarajevo through the '90s, so did all of my generation of correspondents, and everybody wrote off Sarajevo and the defenders for four years. They were heavily outgunned, heavily outnumbered. They even had a U.N. arms embargo that tied their hands behind their backs while the Russian and Serbian and others who supported the Serb separatists were sending them heavy artillery, armor and the like, and it never fell. Sarajevo never fell. And it did not get anything from the west. It didn't get any airstrikes, any air cover, anything. And it was just the heart of the people and what they could manage to do.

And I think one has to keep watching this incredible resistance by the Ukrainians. And remember, this is not just out of nothing. They have been steadily and systemically built up in terms of training, in terms of weaponry over the last seven or so years since 2014 when Putin marched unopposed into Crimea and Eastern Ukraine. So, they really have been given much more than Putin probably even thought of when he started this, thinking that it was just going to be a one-day blitzkrieg.

HILL: An important point, absolutely. Christiane, I really appreciate it, as always. Thank you.

In the meantime, thousands of miles away, there is growing concern about Putin's reach. Could it extend to cyberattacks in the United States? We'll take a look at the target that is most concerning this morning. That's next.

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