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Interview With Senior Presidential Adviser Cedric Richmond; Justice Department Targets Russian Oligarchs; President Biden Says Russia Intentionally Targeting Ukrainian Civilians. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired March 02, 2022 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: It is not a war. It's a genocide of the Ukrainian people by a crazy man who cannot get over that Ukrainian people do not want to be with the Soviet Union.

Thanks for your time today on INSIDE POLITICS. Hope to see you again tomorrow. Don't forget, you can also listen to our podcast.

Anderson Cooper, Ana Cabrera pick up our coverage right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello, and welcome to our breaking news coverage of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: And I'm Anderson Cooper in Lviv, Ukraine.

A new level of barbarism comes to light in Ukraine, President Biden says Russia is intentionally targeting civilians. And a short time ago, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations also accused Russia of escalating its brutality. She says it is deploying weapons that are condemned by human rights groups and banned by the international community.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LINDA THOMAS-GREENFIELD, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: We have seen videos of Russian forces moving exceptionally lethal weaponry into Ukraine which has no place on the battlefield.

That includes cluster munitions and vacuum bombs, which are banned under the Geneva Convention.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Russian forces have ramped up their attacks on key cities and the civilians who live there.

In Kharkiv, Ukraine's second largest city, which is in the east of the country, streets are lined with gutted shells of buildings. The national university and a police station were hit. In the southern city of Kherson, there has been fierce fighting between Ukrainians and Russian troops.

Ukraine denies that -- Russian claims that the city has fallen. The city council reports at least 36 people have been killed. Today, Ukraine's government says more than 2,000 civilians have so far been killed.

This morning, CNN spoke with a Ukrainian woman who has volunteered with a medical battalion. Our Jim Acosta spoke -- Jim Sciutto spoke to her. She described the horrors in the streets of Kyiv.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TATA MARHARIAN, UKRAINIAN VOLUNTEER MEDICAL BATTALION: And I'm seeing dead children. I'm seeing hospitals being bombed. I'm seeing churches being bombed.

It's difficult. I don't know what to tell you. What am I seeing? I'm seeing my people die. I'm seeing all sorts of horrible things. I have studied crimes against humanity at the university. I studied international humanitarian law. I never thought I would see this with my own eyes in my peaceful country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: We have CNN correspondents all throughout Ukraine, as -- in Russia as well.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen is just inside Russia's border near Belgorod. He's -- let's begin, though, with Alex Marquardt, who is in Kyiv.

So, Alex, it is 8:00 p.m. in Kyiv, as the country enters its seventh night of attacks. What do you been seeing there today?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, the fear always -- and especially when night falls -- is, what's going to happen in the skies above Kyiv?

It's been almost a week now since Russia launched their invasion. And tonight is no different. Much of the city is dark. Much of the outskirts where we are is dark. That's why it's pitch black behind me. We're using minimal lighting.

And that is because there is increasing evidence that Russia is targeting, hitting and killing civilians. We saw evidence of that today. We went to the site where five civilians were killed yesterday when a Russian missile series of strikes hit around the TV tower to the west of the city, one missile hitting that tower.

But, also, there was significant destruction just across the street. We went to a gym that was still smoldering with a fire almost 24 hours later. We went next door to a garage where the owner and her staff were still sweeping up the debris, throwing out insulation and glass and pieces of the ceiling.

They had gone down into the bomb shelter when they heard the first of those missiles hit. There were five people killed right on that street. We saw the blood of some of those victims. So ,it is clear that, despite the Russian denials that they are not killing civilians, they very much are -- or they're not targeting civilians -- they very much are hitting areas where civilians live.

And we should note, this is in an area called Babi Yar, where -- which is where there's a memorial for Holocaust victims, a memorial for one of the worst massacres of the Holocaust, where some 30,000 people died. So this attack in that area has particular symbolism, particular significance.

And it is clear that the fears by civilians that they may be killed is growing. We have been watching closely. And you and I, Anderson, have been talking about this long column of Russian troops heading towards Kyiv, a 40-mile-long convoy with trucks, with artillery, with tanks and armor.

[13:05:07]

However, there is some good news on that front. According to a senior U.S. official, that column has essentially stalled. They are having trouble. They're having trouble resupplying. They're having trouble getting fuel to the front. They're having trouble feeding their troops. There's evidence, according to this official, that the Ukrainians have been hitting them in different places.

Ukrainians across the country have had a lot of luck against Russian forces on the ground using anti-tank missiles, like the Javelins that they have been supplied by the United States. So, right now, the biggest fear, I would say, for Kyiv is not necessarily what's coming at them on the ground. It's what could come at them from the skies, artillery, missiles, planes.

That's what has everyone on edge in Kyiv tonight and in the hours and days going forward -- Anderson.

COOPER: Alex, stay safe. Be careful.

Fred, in -- you're just over the border in Russia, near Kharkiv. What you have been seeing throughout the day?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Hi there, Anderson.

Yes, one of the things that we have been hearing throughout the course of the day from the Ukrainians and also seeing on some of the videos that have been coming out is that the fighting there has been intensifying. The Russians, apparently, they're also using a lot heavier weapons than before.

There were big impacts, some civilian buildings that were hit throughout the course of the day. What we saw on our side of the border on the Russian side, just across from the Kharkiv front line, is a lot more air activity by the Russian air force, but also some pretty heavy artillery fire, rocket artillery fire going out.

In fact, a couple of minutes before we went to air here, that's also something that we heard as well. Now, one of the unique things about the vantage point that we have here being on the Russian side is that we can actually see some of the weapons that go into the area of Kharkiv from the Russian side that the Russians are bringing in there.

And when the U.S. speaks of vacuum bombs possibly being deployed there, we actually did see the launcher that launches those bombs. It's called a thermo-barbaric -- thermobaric -- sorry -- rocket launcher.

That was brought into the Kharkiv area this weekend. We saw that pass us. We filmed that pass us. And when the U.S. speaks about vacuum bomb, those rocket launchers launch rockets that then incinerate the air around where they impact and suck the oxygen out, causing people's lungs to collapse. That is what that weapon does.

We can't confirm that that weapon has been used on the Kharkiv front line, but we can certainly say that that weapon has been deployed there and can be used there any time.

Anderson, one of the other things that also happened today for the first time was that the Russians actually mentioned numbers of killed for their own soldiers in this operation. The Defense Ministry coming out just a couple of hours ago, or just an hour-and-a-half ago, and said it was 498 Russian soldiers killed and 1,597 wounded.

Now, those numbers would already be high. However, the Ukrainians, for their part, are saying that they have killed around 6,000 Russian soldiers. And, of course, a U.S. defense official has told CNN that the number is likely around 5,800.

So the Russians coming out with some numbers that are already pretty high, considering they said this was only going to be a special operation that was only supposed to last a couple of days, but the U.S. and Ukraine saying that those numbers are indeed very -- higher, where, again, from our vantage point here on the Russian side of the border, it certainly seems as though there is even more outgoing fire that we have heard today than we have in the days past, Anderson.

COOPER: Fred, appreciate it as well.

Back -- let's go back to Ana Cabrera in New York -- Ana.

CABRERA: All right, thank you, Anderson. Thanks to all of our reporters. Stay safe.

Let's continue the conversation now.

I want to bring in retired Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt. He's the former assistant secretary of state for political and military affairs under President George W. Bush. Thanks for joining us.

General, more bombings. Local officials are saying universities have been hit, a TV tower, Holocaust memorial site, a maternity clinic. What does this say about Russia's strategy?

BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT (RET.), FORMER U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR PLANS AND STRATEGY: Well, I think we have got to put this in context.

The Ukrainians fought a great fight. But this is the first ending of a nine-inning game. We're now in the second inning. They're getting close to the city. They're not doing well with their ground troops. And, as Anderson said, they are now starting to use artillery, missiles, rockets in a manner that would tell me they're getting ready to have this urban assault.

Basically, they don't want to put their troops into the city until they have -- they have basically roughed it up considerably. So I would expect to see this phase, this artillery, missile, rocket phase for quite some time before they actually make the assaults into the cities.

CABRERA: And my understanding is, they have moved the weapons in. We don't know exactly what they're using, or if they're going to use all the weapons that they have moved in.

But some of the images that we have seen related to the explosions show these giant fireballs. This was an explosion in Kharkiv.

[13:10:01]

KIMMITT: Yes.

CABRERA: Can you tell what kind of bombs or weapons are involved here?

KIMMITT: Well, my guess is that that's a thermobaric weapon. That's a fuel air explosive that doesn't use the dynamite inside the rocket or inside the artillery round for the explosion.

It basically blows a lot of fuel all around the area for a period of time, and then it's ignited. It's much like when you open the grill after you have left the gas on, or, as you see in many of the movies, where the good guy turns on all the gas jets inside the house, walks out and then ignites it.

It's a very, very devastating weapon. We used a variant of that in Afghanistan, but well out into the desert. It was called the mother of all bombs. But this is banned inside of these areas because of its indiscriminate selection between soldiers and civilians. It can't discriminate.

CABRERA: Is that the same thing as a vacuum bomb, which we heard reference at the U.N.?

KIMMITT: Yes. Yes.

CABRERA: OK.

KIMMITT: Yes, it's commonly known as a vacuum bomb, right.

CABRERA: So horrific.

We know some of these explosions have happened very close to or even in Kyiv, the capital of Ukraine. And we're also monitoring a stalled Russian convoy that was headed that way. At last check, it was around 40 miles' long. There are reports of morale problems, possible fuel and food shortages.

And we're just learning that there have been some attacks by Ukrainians on that convoy. Is now the best time to strike? And do they have enough might to stop that convoy altogether?

KIMMITT: Well, as you remember from the first Gulf War, that highway of death where our aircraft basically went up and down the highway and knocked out about 10 miles worth of vehicles.

But, right now, the Russians have air superiority. So, aside from being able to knock out twos and threes, there is no way to go after large numbers of trucks. So, they are stalled. They are a great target. However, neither the Ukrainians have or the U.S. and its allies are willing to use the types of weapons that would basically take that 40-kilometer target-rich environment out.

CABRERA: Are you heartened by the fact that it's been stalled? It was moving very slowly. And, right now, the reports from us authorities are this appears stalled.

KIMMITT: Yes, I'm not necessarily heartened, because, looking at Soviet tactics, this is just the first phase, the artillery phase, of the attack into the city. It may be stalled, but it's a bulldozer.

And whether a bulldozer is going 25 miles an hour or five miles an hour, sooner or later, it's going to get where it's going to go. And when you put a Volkswagen up against a bulldozer, the bulldozer always wins.

CABRERA: Let's take another look at some video from outside a nuclear energy site in Ukraine.

We are told these are workers and residents that are blocking a roadway in front of that nuclear site, trying to keep Russian forces out. We know Putin has already put his nuclear forces on high alert. Russia has already captured the Chernobyl nuclear plant.

General, how big is the nuclear threat right now?

KIMMITT: Well, there are two different kinds of nuclear threats.

There's the nuclear threat from Putin's missiles, which is a significant intercontinental ballistic missile threat. There's also the threat of what we're looking at on TV right now, is that basically the Russians hold that nuclear plant hostage, and if, for whatever reason, whatever crazy ideas Putin might have, they actually destroy it, releasing significant amount of radiation in the area, which we have seen around Chernobyl and other nuclear accidents before.

Either or both are a significant threat. But I know that our defense officials are certainly keeping an eye on the rocket threat, the missile threat, but I just certainly hope that people have some plans for this nuclear reactor.

CABRERA: General Mark Kimmitt, it's been such a helpful conversation. Thanks for helping us understand what's happening right now. Appreciate your time.

The Biden administration is going after some rich and powerful friends of Putin now, the Department of Justice today announcing a new plan to crack down on Russian oligarchs and their yachts and their jets.

Plus, President Biden says nothing is off the table when asked about banning Russian oil. So what is the administration waiting for?

I will ask a senior adviser.

Much more breaking news ahead here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: OK.

This is where they make the Molotov cocktails. She says she's going to show us some now.

(voice-over): These are the only weapons she has but she says she's ready to fight.

"Let those Russian shits come here," she says.

[13:15:00]

"We are ready to greet them."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: The U.S. is turning the pressure on Vladimir Putin and his enablers up another notch today.

The Justice Department says it's launching a brand-new task force called KleptoCapture. Now, this will help enforce sanctions against Russian government officials and oligarchs And that includes seizing their yachts, their jets and other assets.

With us now is Ruth Ben-Ghiat. She's a history professor at New York University and author of "Strongmen: From Mussolini to the Present."

Ruth, thanks joining us. Whether it's seizing these fancy yachts, businesses jumping ship, the

sanctions that have been leveled, or even the strong resistance from the Ukrainian people that we're seeing happen on the ground, on the battlefield, Russia is just feeling this pressure right now from all sides.

[13:20:09]

What does that do to a leader like Putin?

RUTH BEN-GHIAT, NYU HISTORY PROFESSIONAL: It makes him feel humiliated, and also probably instills more desire for revenge, because this is somebody who has built himself up as the defender of Russian values against the West.

He's demonized the West. He's invested so much with his personality cult. This is the leader who poses with no shirt on. And he represses people, so that he can seem all-powerful. And so now he's been effectively outmaneuvered by the West. And it's not just the West. It's the whole world. Look at all the Asian tech companies that are have trade blocks.

And so the autocrat like Putin feels humiliated, and that is something that he can't tolerate. So, unfortunately, they often double down and become more vengeful.

CABRERA: Already, more than 2,000 Ukrainian civilians have been killed. Some 6,000 Russian soldiers have died. This is all according to Ukrainian officials. The two sides are talking again today.

At this point, though, is a diplomatic end still possible?

BEN-GHIAT: I'm not sure it is right now, not with Putin anyway.

It's very important to seek other interlocutors. There's a saying with people who study dictators that elites break and make the strongmen. And it would be important to reach out to Russian military and security officials, because Russia has a lot of prestige from its military might. And I can imagine that there's a lot of unhappiness.

We see that many of the Russian troops on the ground have had a nasty surprise.

CABRERA: Yes.

BEN-GHIAT: And so diplomacy is not the strong suit of somebody like Putin, so we may have to go around that.

CABRERA: Well, Putin is facing resistance from within back at home. Thousands of Russians have been arrested for protesting the invasion.

We know at least three top Russian officials are against the invasion. Oligarchs are getting angry. Could Putin be brought down from within? Should he be worried about a potential coup?

BEN-GHIAT: I think so. I think that it would take time to mobilize all of the -- because, when you have a coup, it means that the elites in many sectors, most obviously the armed forces, but also industry, oligarchs in this case, have come to an agreement.

Now, oligarchs are arguably -- the ones who've spoken out, like Deripaska and Fridman, are reportedly being relied on less by Putin. He's not consulting them as much, which is maybe while they're speaking out. But you do need to build a consensus among elites that this is going to destroy the country to have some kind of intervention, which in the past has led leaders to be forced into exile or thrown out by a coup.

CABRERA: So, ultimately, if you -- history is our guide, is that how it -- is that the most likely scenario for a strongman like Putin to be removed, to be taken down?

BEN-GHIAT: It is.

I would caution be that this again would take a very long time, potentially, because Russia is a kleptocracy. It is the most fully realized institutionalized thievery since somebody like Gadhafi. And many influential Russians have been part of the spoils system for a very long time. They are wedded to this regime.

And so it's not clear that they want it to all collapse. So it's going to -- I don't think it's going to be something that happens in the short term. And that's, of course, bad news for Ukraine.

CABRERA: Absolutely.

A fascinating conversation. I could talk to you all day to learn more from you. Thank you for sharing your insights and expertise with us, Ruth Ben-Ghiat. I appreciate you.

Today, President Biden says nothing is off the table when it comes to further pressure and punishment of Russia, including sanctions on Russian oil exports.

And joining us now is Cedric Richmond. He is a senior adviser to President Biden.

Cedric, we have seen a slew of sanctions already against Russia, but, so far, the U.S. has not targeted the oil industry there. Can you explain why that's a last resort?

CEDRIC RICHMOND, SENIOR PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: Well, I think the president has said it best, that everything is on the table.

And when you talk about oil, you talk about increasing pain here at home for Americans and raising the price of gas and everyday expenses. But it's something that we're definitely looking at. But it is not something that we're prepared to do right now.

[13:25:10]

But I think the president was very clear when he said, everything is on the table, and he's not prepared to take anything off the table. CABRERA: Because oil and energy is really where it could hurt most

against Russia. In fact, crude oil and natural gas made up about 43 percent, on average, of the Russian government's annual revenue. That was between 2011 to 2020, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration.

So, bottom line, does President Biden have to choose between targeting Putin or inflicting more pain at the pump for Americans?

RICHMOND: Well, I think, if we look at President Biden's actions of bringing all of our NATO allies together, all of the drastic sanctions, serious sanctions that have been imposed against Putin and Russia, I think that you see the pressure.

Look at their stock market. Look at the ruble. All of those things are applying great pressure to Putin. And we're going to continue to do that. And so I don't think there's an either/or or one solution. I think that you keep looking at it as the president has been doing, which is galvanizing the world to fight and stop this dictator.

He has to understand that aggression will come with negative consequences. And the world is ready to rally against him.

CABRERA: The issue of gas prices, obviously, that's a problem here at home already. They're skyrocketing.

The U.S. -- the average American in the U.S. is seeing the pain go up exponentially, it feels like. And, yes, the president has agreed to release another 30 million barrels from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. Why not ramp up domestic production in the short term to kind of weather the storm?

RICHMOND: Well, I will tell you this.

I think that many people may say that that is a solution. But we have put a solution the table. And that is to pass legislation that will lower Americans' everyday costs, lower their health care. If we pass our climate agenda, we will lower energy prices for the average American family by $500 a month.

We can reduce the expenses that they're paying for child care, which, on average, is about $14,000 a year. And we would cap it at 7 percent of income. We would limit the amount that people would pay for prescription drugs. Insulin, for example, we'd cap at $35. Those things...

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: Respectfully, those are good ideas to ease the burden on Americans. But those are months away, if ever. We know that was part of the Build Back Better legislation that Joe Manchin rejected.

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: And so even Democrats -- I know Republicans are united against it. But even Democrats aren't all on the same page there. What can be done in this moment, when you need to have some kind of

relief more quickly?

RICHMOND: Well, Ana, I think there's a bill sitting in the Senate. You say it's months away. I don't think it has to be months away.

So I just disagree with your assertion in the first place. But if you pass those pieces of legislation...

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: But is there an indication that Joe Manchin has changed his mind, because, as of last night, he said he hadn't changed his mind?

RICHMOND: Well, you're talking about one comprehensive bill.

And I think the president has said he's willing to go at it in many different ways. But if you're talking about child care, I don't think that there's opposition to child care and helping there. And we're not talking about the child tax credit and other things.

But the goal is to help Americans with their day-to-day expenses and, at the end of the month, when they calculate their bills, be able to pay them. So, if you look at how the economy is growing, if you look at our focus on easing the cost to families, I think that that is how you help families cope while gas prices are high.

CABRERA: So, at this point, there is no specific action being taken to provide relief for gas, other than what we already know? And that is the strategic oil -- petroleum reserve release.

RICHMOND: Yes.

And that was a significant release and is direct action by the president to try to lower and help ease the pain of gas prices in this country.

CABRERA: Cedric Richmond, thank you very much for taking the time, obviously, no easy solutions. Thank you for sharing with us what your administration is working on.

They're tired, they're hungry, and just trying to get to safety. An update on the growing refugee crisis in Europe, as Ukrainians fight to keep themselves and their children alive.

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