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Pentagon Press Secretary John Kirby Holds Briefing as Russian Forces Move Towards Kyiv; Pentagon: 40-Mile Convoy Near Kyiv Remains Stalled. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired March 02, 2022 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: All I can do is tell you what we're seeing as best we can see it. And they have not taken any of the major population centers they appear to be wanting to take. And again, we think there's a variety of reasons for that. Not least of which is the bravery and the skill and the creativity of Ukrainian fighters. In the back there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, John.

KIRBY: I can't see you. It's OK, Norman.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, thank you. You told at the beginning about the situation in Kyiv and the south of the country. I put my (INAUDIBLE) in Ukraine and their main concern is about the western Ukraine. Millions of people are going right now cities like (INAUDIBLE), they believe it's safe there. So, what's your estimate about the western Ukraine and any signs as of now that Russia is preparing to attack or to capture western Ukraine or they've concentrated on Kyiv and south Kherson?

KIRBY: Yes again, I'm going to be careful here not to anticipate Russian moves. All I can do is tell you we're seeing. And were seen a continued desire to advance on Kyiv, fighting in Kharkiv, fighting in a town -- and I'm probably going not pronounce is right -- but Chernihiv. And then what I described in the South. So, largely the effort appears to be to the north of Kyiv into the East in the rest of the country. I don't know what Russian designs or plans are for western Ukraine. So, it's hard for me to predict.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two questions. The first 14 the nuclear test, is there a date that it's going to be postponed to or is it postponed indefinitely until tensions simmer?

KIRBY: We don't have a reschedule date right now. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then the second thing, in your answer to Bob,

it sounds like you were parsing a little bit in terms of the attack on Kyiv or directed toward Kyiv. It seems like you consider making a distinction between the convoy and everything you're seeing. Is there a second portion of what Russia is doing toward Kyiv that you're seeing? Just because the attention is focused on the convoy. It seemed like you were parsing a little bit in your language there.

KIRBY: I assure you I never parse. What I was trying to make the point -- the point I was trying to make and I know there's a lot of interest in this convoy. I'm not clear, we're not clear that you can segregate the convoy from their advances on Kyiv or what they're trying to do on Kyiv.

We don't have perfect visibility into every vehicle that is in this convoy and what their intended destination is or may be. But on the face of it, it appears to be a chance to contribute to the advance to Kyiv just based on geography. So, what I was trying to do perhaps inelegantly was to broaden this out a little bit. And rather than stay focused on a convoy, try to look at it in perspective here. It's of a piece of what we believe their desire, which is to take Kyiv.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you speak a little more specific on that larger picture that you're seeing from the north?

KIRBY: I'm not sure I can give you much more than I have I'm afraid, Mike. As I said, we're somewhat limited in our ability to know and understand everything. We still believe it's Mr. Putin's desire to topple the government. In order to do that, he believes he has to take Kyiv. He continues to want to advance on Kyiv. That advance has been stalled. They are working through that we think right now. In a big reason why, it stalled is Ukraine resistance which continues right up to this hour. In the back there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two questions for you. One, you outlined all these different population centers as being targets of the Russian advance. Is there anything that you're seeing to maybe connect the dots between some of those and a potential, you know, partitioning of the country. But between the population centers, efforts to kind of, you know, to connect those dots basically.

And the second thing, you mentioned how Ukrainians are resisting, slowing things down with the convoy. Tactically speaking would you define those as, you know, defensive maneuvers or potentially offensive maneuvers that they're using against certain parts of the Russian military. Whether it's convoy or other vehicles you're seeing in the country. Are they, you know, are they waiting to be fired on or are they taking more drastic measures?

KIRBY: Ukrainians?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ukrainians, yes, from that side. How would you define kind of their strategy here?

KIRBY: They are defending their country.

[15:35:00]

And every shot they take, every maneuver they execute is designed to defend the sovereignty of their country it's about defense. And they're fighting a very strong defense.

On your other question, again, I have to confess to not having perfect knowledge of Mr. Putin's planning here. But on the face of it as we see what we see happening on a daily basis it appears as if they are moving along what we would describe as three main axis of invasion.

One is from the north down towards Kyiv. And essentially there's sort of two forks there, Northeast and Northwest kind of coming down on Kyiv. One avenue through Belarus and one avenue through Russia. There's also a southern advance that we've already talked about. That's branching out, out of Crimea to the northeast and to the northwest. And then we see a push from what we would consider sort of the northeastern group that is moving on Kharkiv.

Kharkiv is valuable because it's such a big city. It is a major population center. But it also could give Mr. Putin -- again, could. I'm not an expert on what they're planning to do but it certainly could give him an avenue of approach towards Kyiv if the plan was to advance on Kyiv from multiple directions, then that direction might be credible one, they could use.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're saying this is a potential multifront advance on the capital not like trying to carve out the country potentially with these various population centers.

KIRBY: We definitely can see an effort to move on the capital, it's difficult to know what certainty what other moves inside Ukraine Mr. Putin might be trying to achieve. And again, it's hard for me to speak to a plan that we don't have perfect visibility on. So, the idea of carving Ukraine up, I just can't speak to that specifically. It is entirely also possible that what they're doing in the east could be an effort to fix Ukrainian armed forces in that eastern region so that they can't come to the defense of others. But again, they have not achieved success in the major population centers to date that we see them trying to move on. Tony.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You mentioned earlier that the Russians had (INAUDIBLE) fully demonstrated integrated arms capability. This is something that you must practice with all the time at the National training center and Marines do also. What are you not seeing that would demonstrate a seamless or marginally seamless combined arms capability by the Russians?

KIRBY: Yes again, I don't want to speak too much specifically on Russian operations, Tony. It's just, when you look at what's happening, I would just say it doesn't appear ground and air operations seem to be very well connected based on what we're seeing happening.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The space question now, the richest man in the world, Elon Musk successfully brought in Starlink internet communication disks into Ukraine. The Ukraine vice-president showed a picture of this. What, in your sense, did the Pentagon at all help in the transport of these Starlink internet terminals, and are you seeing any impact in terms of either helping the Ukrainians with tactical military operations or keeping the population connected, basically, as the Russians attack information nodes?

KIRBY: No help from us that I'm aware of, I'm not sure I understand your second question there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dishes are being installed, are you seeing any impact in terms of helping the Ukrainians with tactical military operations.

KIRBY: You mean from the Starlink?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From the Starlink.

KIRBY: That's really for the Ukrainians to speak to, Tony, not for the U.S. military, and I know of no involvement by us in respect to that. Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Biden says the U.S. will join allies close the U.S. air space to the Russian planes. Who's about more civilian aviation of course, and U.S. air space, of course. But we know that the U.S. military has part of civilian air space under its control and Russian military cargo planes crossing to that air space from time to time. Is there in any way to plan to limit Russian military assets in northern Syria where U.S. air force controls?

KIRBY: I'm not aware of any such plans and as you know, we are in Syria for one purpose and one purpose only and that's the counter ISIS fight and that remains an active fight and that there's a deconfliction mechanism with Russian military forces in that part of Syria that has worked.

[15:40:00]

That's as far as I can go on that.

Let me go to the phones here, guys, I haven't gotten to anybody. John Esmond, "New York Times".

JOHN ESMOND, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Today at the emergency special session of the United Nations General Assembly, U.S. Ambassador Linda Thomas Greenfield said that cluster munitions and what she called vacuum bombs, are banned under Geneva conventions. And also, I hear that I assume by vacuum bombs she meant fuel air explosives, or other forms of thermobaric weapons. So, I was hoping you could tell me what the status is of the Pentagon's ongoing internal review on its own munitions policy. And can you say whether the Pentagon believes that cluster munitions and thermobaric are banned under the Geneva Conventions. Thanks.

KIRBY: John, don't have any updates for you on the policy reviews with respect to cluster munitions, and I'm going to have to take your question on the Geneva Conventions, I'm afraid I'm not an expert on that and rather than spitball it I'll take the question and we'll get back to you. Abraham.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two questions, number one, how much coordination is going on between the United States Air Force, NATO, and the Ukrainian air force. And second question, is the U.S. Air Force continuing to fly ISR and other aircraft in international airspace air space over the Black Sea and if not, why not? Thank you.

KIRBY: Abraham I'm not going to talk about flight profiles. We don't have any aircraft manned or unmanned flying in Ukrainian air space. And the question about specific coordination or communication with Ukrainian armed forces is better put to NATO. What I would just tell you our support for Ukrainian armed forces right now is very largely in the form of security assistance which continued to flow and gets into their hands.

Can I just follow up on the question from ...

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: OK, we've been listening to John Kirby there at the Pentagon and give us their latest assessment of where Russian troops are and how Ukraine troops are fighting back.

Let's bring in our guests. Because we have a lot of question for them. CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr. CNN Senior International correspondent Fred Pleitgen who is in , Russia. Also, with us we have retired U.S. Army Major Mike Lyons. And we have John Sipher, former CIA deputy chief of Russia operations, and nonresident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council.

I know you've been listening along as well. Major I'll start with you. It sounds like what John Kirby was saying, was describing it's been a tougher slog than the Russians thought it was going to be, in terms of supplies, in terms of food, in terms of their equipment, on the ground, some getting stuck, some inoperable, it's been tougher. And so, yet we do hear there are also more bombings happening in more cities. And so, what does that tell you about what Russia's next strategy would be?

MAJ. MIKE LYONS, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Well plan-A has failed completely which was, you know, strategic weapons going in first and try to soften up these targets. They thought they would blitzkrieg their way in and plan-B now looks like even more of the same. I think he's understating how poorly they're doing for a reason because we don't want to give them any ideas of things to do.

They're just not acting tactically for example, that convoy is all in a row. They're all easy target and people can line up and shoot at them. So, I think now they're going to really ratchet up the strategic weapons and try to inflict as much damage as they can and try to make places like Kyiv burn. I think that's really what they're going to do. They don't really have any predictability of success taking those armored in formation into the city now and thinking they'll be successful with them.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Fred, to you, we heard from Admiral Kirby there that there's not been much geographic progress as the Russians, those troops come closer to Kyiv over the last 24 to 36 hours. What do we know about why that is, you talked about a combination of potential reasons, tell us what you know about that around the capital city.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, there Victor. Yes, well I think one of the things that Admiral Kirby said which is really interesting is so far the Russians haven't managed to take a single of large population centers inside Ukraine, including places like Kharkiv, includes places like Mariupol, Odessa and then of course the capital of Kyiv that you're talking about right now. Which of course is really seems to be their main strategic objective to try and go in and change the government there.

And there seem to be several reasons why that is the case. I mean, we talk about that convoy that really hasn't made much progress over the past couple of hours and Admiral Kirby was saying that him that he believes maybe they're reassessing how they want to go about all of this.

[15:45:04]

Some of the things we've heard from the Pentagon is that perhaps there's fuel shortages or I wouldn't actually necessarily call them fuel shortages but difficulties getting the fuel to the frontline. Because one of the things that we keep seeing here, and we're near the Kharkiv frontline, I was here in Belgorod, on Russian territory, there are fuel trucks that keep going back and forth. They're not very large and they have to go quite often. It's unclear whether the Russians have enough of those and whether or not there is actually enough fuel to be brought to the frontline troops to actually keep moving.

And then also, one of the other things that the Pentagon has said, is that they believe that some troops are running out of food because the logistics lines certainly are very long. That convoy in itself, of course, is about 40 miles long as satellite images have shown.

One of the things that we saw on the ground here, also in Belgorod, is actually local people bringing food to the final check point before you get to the frontline in the Kharkiv area and being loaded into military vehicle. Whether or not that means that there're might really be food shortages among the troops here, also the Kharkiv front is of course, unclear from our vantage point but it's certainly something that did stick out.

So those are some of the things that could be difficult. And the other thing, Victor, that we have seen here, is that some of the Russian gear seems to be breaking down before it even gets to the areas of combat. We have seen a lot of broken down Russian military vehicles even here on Russian territory that need to be towed or that need to be repaired on the side of the road, so that could also be an issue as well -- Victor.

CAMEROTA: John, you were the CIA deputy chief of Russian operations. So, could you give us the 30,000-foot view, what is Putin's end game? I mean, when we look at the video of thus far the destruction and the damage that's happened, he wants to take over a country of burned out, bombed out cities of 44 million people who don't want him there who are going to revolt? That's what he wants? JOHN SIPHER, FORMER CIA DEPUTY CHIEF OF RUSSIA OPERATIONS: No, I don't

think that's what he wants and I think his endgame has to change all the time. You know, he's a dictator and a dictator has to wake up every morning hopefully they don't die getting dragged into a gutter somewhere. And so, he thought that he needed to show strength and he thought this would be easier. We're seeing that now. Kirby's comments make it clear that, you know, they thought this would be easier and it wasn't easier.

You know, Vladimir Putin, his skill is playing the opponent, you know, Gary Kasparov the chess champion is the one that said, Putin doesn't play the situation on the chess board, he plays the opponent, and so it's always using intimidations, and threats, and bullying to try to get splits between people and get his way. This is kind of thing he's done all the way up here, but now he's stuck, now he's gone in, you know, trying to sort of bully the West. Nowadays is not going to help him anymore. He has to actually -- he has to succeed. His military has to succeed and it doesn't look like they're doing it so far.

BLACKWELL: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, to you, we heard also from Admiral Kirby that the Russians have made mistakes but are learning from them. Any estimate that we heard from John Kirby of how quickly that will ramp up and what they expect to see next?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think they already are beginning to see that initial second stage if you will by the Russians, increased missile attacks, long range artillery, as they can get it closer to the targets in these city centers, these population centers, that they want to hit.

The thing we keep hearing is, you know, his first idea didn't work and so now he's going towards annihilation. This was seen in Chechnya so many years ago. This is the heavy-handed just disastrous tactics that date back to the old outdated Soviet era, of course, Stalinist in their tone and tenor, and that's the concern. The Ukrainian people fighting heroically, fighting valiantly, the question is how long can they possibly hold out when that full onslaught begins.

CAMEROTA: Yes, that is the question and Major, what's it's answer? If Russia moves this to an air fight, if they use more of the force of their Air Force -- and we know Ukrainian's is woefully inadequate compared to Russia. How does Ukrainian fight back against that?

LYONS: They're just going to have to survive. I think if the ground forces that Ukrainian have can continue to bloody the nose and punch them in places where they're weak. If the Russians continue not to take the risks, as Adm. Kirby was talking about by getting out of that convoy formation, becoming a little more tactical. They're going to absorb a pretty large pounding and the question is how many more tools can we get them.

[15:50:00]

How also will the Russian soldier on the ground act towards what's going on here and at some point, does the rest of the world say, you know, kind of enough is enough and try to find a better off-ramp for this and for this situations? Get back to G-minus zero and try to redraw was probably a boundary of Ukraine that allows Russia to keep Crimea with a land bridge there as well.

But if the Russians decide to go that route, the Ukrainian air force is going to be -- all is going to have its hands full in order to try to knock those things out of the sky. But the major built-up areas will be to absolutely pound it.

BLACKWELL: Control room, if you can rerack that video, we had about a minute ago, I want people to see what is there and explain what it is. This was a school that was hit in Kharkiv, you can see the windows blown out here, a huge hole, centered right there in that wall. When the Russians say that are not targeting civilian locations. We heard from the Secretary of State that buses, cars, schools, hospitals all hit.

John, to you, on the intel of this how much is Putin typically involved in the military strategy, in calling the shots? Is he likely to micromanage the generals, make some of these decisions or is he watching and just calling kind of big picture?

SIPHER: Well, it's interesting that you bring that up. And Barbara's right about the Russian way of war, we have to worry about what they have done in Syria and Chechnya and these other places. It could be really, really nasty.

But you know, he's created a system essentially of cantocracy, of people around him all who have a means to steal. So, a corrupt government essentially rewards don't go to the best-connected people. They don't go to the best people. They go to the best-connected people. Right. So, you can imagine the minister of defense when he has to come through and make contracts for weapons and supply, he has to give it out to people so they can steal money off of it rather than give it to the best person who could come through. So, now facing how this comes through.

And so, I think Putin thought he could just bully those around him and assumed competence, and now he's finding out the system he created that's so corrupt, you know, there's a consequence to that. And so, I think, you know, we've seen some of these meetings recently where he's sort of smacking on his own people and he's going to try to use that intimidation but it's not going to work.

BLACKWELL: All right, John Sipher, Major Mike Lyons, Fred Pleitgen, Alex Marquardt, Barbara Star, thank you very much.

We're just hearing from President Biden about what is happening in Ukraine issuing a rallying cry during a speech in Wisconsin today. He's reiterating his support for the country as of course this invasion intensifies. Let's watch.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Together, we sent unmistakable signal to Ukraine and to the world that we, the United States of America, stand with the Ukrainian people. We stand with them. Vladimir Putin's latest attack on Ukraine is premeditated and

unprovoked. He's rejected repeated efforts at diplomacy. He thought the West and NATO wouldn't respond. He thought they would divide us at home but he was wrong. We were ready. We spent countless hours unifying the European allies. We counted Russia's lies and truth, we counted them by letting them know what was being planned. And now the free world is holding him accountable.

Putin is now isolated from the world more than ever and will continue to aid the Ukrainian people as they defend their country and help ease their suffering in the process. When history of this era is written, Ukraine will have left Russia weaker and the rest of the world stronger.

CAMEROTA: Joining us now is a journalist who has covered Joe Biden for nearly a decade and accompanied him on a trip to Ukraine in 2014 when he was vice-president. This is the "New Yorker" staff writer, Evan Osnos. Great to have you, because when the president says when the history of this is written, you have written the first draft actually of history in terms of Joe Biden's relationship with Ukraine and Putin. And so, how do you describe what you're seeing now in his approach to this crisis?

EVAN OSNOS, AUTHOR, "JOE BIEN: THE LIFE, THE RUN AND WHAT MATTERS NOW"; Yes, it's really interesting to see, Alisyn, that I think a lot of Americans even don't fully recognize that this country, that Ukraine has been a big part of Joe Biden's life for a long time. I think arguably, there hasn't been a U.S. president who has spent more time working on it, almost, you know, by coincidence that is now the moment that is in the presidency.

But you have to back to 2014, after Russia of course annexed Crimea, went into Ukraine, then President Biden was tasked by the president to be the point person on that relationship. So, he made six trips to the country and then started talking to the leaders of Ukraine really every week.

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I mean it was about 80 times in total, and he came to see the struggle of Ukraine against Russia as something much larger. Which was as he put it, it was a bell weather for the future of democracy in Eastern Europe and Central Europe. This went back to his experience in the Senate. He worked on the issues when he was a Senator. He had been in the Soviet Union and he had a very distinct sense that there was this threat of authoritarianism emanating from the Soviet Union and later Russia and that carried over into his relationship to Ukraine.

BLACKWELL: He was over ruled in 2013 about more extreme sanctions and arming the Ukrainians. Does it appear that because of what the European partners will accept and won't accept that that's happening again?

OSNOS: Well, I think there's a difference today, between 2014. At the time, Joe Biden was one of a group of American officials who believed the U.S. and its allies could be doing more. And particularly they wanted to make sure there were Javelin antitank missiles that were sent to Ukraine. And there was according to one account, there was a moment when then Vice-President Biden said to President Obama that Vladimir Putin has to pay with blood and money for what he's done.

The judgment at the time was that it was too risky to risk an escalation and therefore they did hold things in check. The president at the time told the vice-president, it's not as if we're going to send in the 82nd Airborne, we don't want to over promise in other words to the Ukrainians.

Today you see this much stronger more kind of allied response across a whole range of countries. Part of the reason President Obama felt that way, was he didn't know if the Europeans would be on board. Today there's been this sort of extraordinary concert of action among other countries and that's a measure I think with a recognition there has been this steady accretion of aggressive acts by the Russians.

BLACKWELL: Yes, we heard by the president when he announced the first sanctions that this goes far beyond what happened in 2014. Evan Osnos, thank you.

And "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts after this short break.