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Russian Shelling of Ukrainian Cities Continues. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired March 03, 2022 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:19]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello, and welcome to our special breaking news coverage of the war in Ukraine. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: And I'm Anderson Cooper in Lviv, Ukraine.

We begin this hour with the chilling warning to Ukraine and the world -- quote -- "The worst is yet to come." That is from the French government after President Emmanuel Macron held a phone call with Russia's Vladimir Putin.

A source says Putin reaffirm that he will -- quote -- "continue military interventions" and to go all the way. The update comes as a senior U.S. defense official tells CNN that Russia has moved 90 percent of its pre-staged combat power into Ukraine. NATO warns that the siege of Mariupol in the south signals a change in Kremlin strategy.

Russian troops are unleashing more direct attacks after attempts to encircle cities like Kyiv had been bogged down. Leaders in Mariupol say their city is now surrounded. Russians are targeting civilians most basic needs and the humanitarian crisis grows by the hour.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ORLOV SERGEI, DEPUTY MAYOR OF MARIUPOL, UKRAINE: We do not have electricity in whole city. We do not have water supply. We do not have sanitary system. And we do not have heating. Only natural gas supplement is left. And it continues for one day in the house.

So we have continuous shelling for 26 hours; 26 hours, they are destroying our city.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: Well, Ukraine's military says it will not surrender the critical port city. It is a key element of Vladimir Putin's goal of establishing a land bridge to Crimea.

Russia's relentless shelling of residential areas has triggered an exodus of civilians. The United Nations says more than one million civilians have fled the country in just the past seven days to a number of different countries they have gone.

We're covering all the developments.

CNN's Alex Marquardt is in Kyiv. Nick Paton Walsh is in Odessa in the south.

Nick, you're in, as I said, Southern Ukraine. Russia has arguably made its biggest advances in the parts of the country you have been in. Talk about what's the latest going on in the south.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Yes, certainly.

You mentioned that the besieging of Mariupol. That looks desperately fraught in the hours ahead. The mayor saying that cutting off the supply of electricity, gas, water, basic utilities to residents was -- quote -- "the only way the scum have found so far to break us."

And I think this, as you mentioned there, a deeply troubling new chapter, if population centers are essentially going to be besieged, Mariupol always vulnerable there close to separatist areas on the Sea of Azov, but also too troubling signs of what a Russian presence in the streets of Ukraine cities look like Kherson, the first, I think it's fair to say, major city to fall.

That seemed to have occurred last night. Today, I spoke to a resident who talks about a lack of medicine, how not only were Russian troops looting, but also locals, frankly, too, finding that was the only way to lay their hands on food, such was the humanitarian catastrophe, this resident said, that had befallen their town just literally in two or three days.

Videos posted too accompanied by a statement from local officials of trip wire mines laid in certain parts of that city as well, utterly shocking, frankly, to see how that whole populated area has fallen so fast in about 72 hours, since we first saw images of Russian troops circulating around it.

And now of course, the focus, I think beginning to shift through the town of Mykolaiv also under attack as you head west towards me here to this port city of Odessa.

I was talking to the mayor today, saying how -- he said to me how they were deeply fearful of street-to-street fighting in the event that an amphibious landing did occur here. There were signs that may be afoot today when it emerged an Estonian cargo ships sank off the coast here. The Ukrainian official said that was because it was in fact shelled by Russian ships. They were hoping to use it as some sort of civilian shield or cover

for an amphibious landing here. We can't verify that specific claim.

But it adds to a general feeling here of the pressure increasing on this third largest port city here, some shelling on sort of distant outskirts of the coastline here as well today, and leaving many deeply concerned that we may be looking at those Russian ships that U.S. and Ukrainian officials have warned or off the coast here moving around being part of the amphibious warning so many -- sorry -- amphibious landing so many have warned about in the past months -- Anderson.

[13:05:00]

COOPER: Yes.

Alex Marquardt, what's the latest in Kyiv and in the north?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, just as the south continues to see significant Russian aggression, we are also seeing it from the north, a reminder that Russia had assembled its troops really on all sides.

The north has been pummeled in recent days. Particularly today, we are getting lots of news, lots of new pictures out of the town of Chernihiv, which is up near that border with Belarus. We understand from Ukrainian authorities that there was a significant attack on residential areas that left at least nine people dead, including two civilians.

There was also a strike on an oil depot that resulted in a huge fire, huge plume of black smoke. That depot had a capacity of some 660,000 gallons. And then closer to Kyiv, Anderson, there's an area just northwest of here about 30 miles from the city center called Borodyanka, which is a suburb.

We have seen significant shelling again on residential areas. Again, we have to remind our viewers, Anderson, that the Kremlin continues to deny that they aren't targeting residential areas, but, clearly, they are being hit, and, clearly, civilians are being killed.

The foreign minister of Ukraine saying that, over the course of two days, this area just outside Kyiv was hit with repeated strikes, the video just incredible, a hole punched straight through an apartment building. The foreign minister says that many people were killed over the course of two days.

Anderson, of course, we are keeping a very close eye on that column of Russian vehicles, that convoy we have been talking about for several days that has gotten closer to Kyiv. According to the Pentagon and other NATO officials, it has stalled. It has come to pretty much a standstill, making no real progress forward in the past few days.

But that doesn't mean that they're not making progress, they say. There is evidence that they are having trouble both logistically, in terms of fuel and food. There's also evidence that they are encountering that stiffer Ukrainian resistance that we have talked about, that they're been coming under some level of attack from Ukrainians.

But it's also possible, these NATO officials, say that the Russians are reassessing and regrouping -- Anderson.

COOPER: It's extraordinary those images that we are seeing now from both the south and the north.

Guys, thanks so much.

The Biden administration is asking Congress for $10 billion in emergency aid to Ukraine. About half would pay for U.S. troop deployments to NATO countries and would arm Ukraine with more military equipment. Now, of course, it comes as the U.S. has made its first direct delivery of Stinger anti-aircraft missiles to Ukraine.

CNN's Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon with the latest on that.

Barbara, talk to me about these deliveries. What do we know about what's being sent?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is the first time the U.S. has had direct from the U.S. to Ukraine deliveries of these anti-aircraft Stinger missiles.

They have been supplied through other countries that the U.S. has given us approval for those supplies, but now a direct shipment, as many as 200, just on Monday. And, of course, we have seen the Javelin anti-tank, weapons go, so anti-tank to try and help the Ukrainians hit Russian armor on the ground, anti-air to try and hit Russian aircraft.

But I think, given everything that we have just seen in the last couple of minutes that you have shown, Anderson, it's worth another consideration of the big picture that the Pentagon, that the Biden administration sees at this hour, the Russians making advances in the south, moving on population centers with very heavy bombardment, no regard for civilian casualties, and taking territory.

That is in the south. For the capital of Kyiv, as Alex just said, that convoy still north of Kyiv, but the U.S. deeply concerned that the Russians very much still are engaged in the strategy of moving their forces forward and trying to surround the capital city and basically take it down.

There is just no other way to put it. We are seeing now the Russians unveil, if you will, the most heavy-handed, barbaric tactics that they have used decades ago in Chechnya, the sort of Stalinist era of heavy bombardment, no regard for civilians, and there is great fear and the reality that there may be much more to come -- Anderson.

COOPER: Yes, there's little doubt about that.

Barbara Starr, appreciate it. Thank you.

Back to Ana now in New York -- Ana

CABRERA: And we will see you again soon in a moment, Anderson. With us now to discuss all of this is CNN military analyst Major General James "Spider" Marks.

And, General, we just heard from Barbara there that the U.S. has provided hundreds of these Stinger missiles, but we don't know exactly what other lethal aid they may have also sent. What are your thoughts on that?

[13:10:03]

BRIG. GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, clearly, the Stingers fingers will work, in terms of the superiority that the Russians have achieved in the air.

The Ukrainians need to use those and they need to use those very liberally, depending upon how many they have. And then, additionally, we have spoken about the Javelin, which is an anti-tank capability, which attacks -- it's a fire-and-forget, which means you fire that thing off, and then you can depart, so nobody can come back and target you. And then it attacks the tank from the top down.

It's a very sophisticated, tremendous weapon system. That would be used against all of those convoys, all of those vehicles, they would be extremely effective.

CABRERA: So what kind of expertise then do you need to operate these weapons, like the Stinger missiles? Do they know how to operate them?

MARKS: Yes. Yes, Ana, great question.

Certainly, the United States and the Ukrainians have done training exercises, obviously, a priori the invasion, so there's been some partnership. But the key thing is, is when you hand these things over, and if there's just kind of a stun mullet look, like I have no clue what I'm doing with this thing, there has to be some degree of familiarization.

Now, I'm going to make a supposition that the United States probably has some unacknowledged presence in Ukraine that might be available to assist with some of this handoff. It's not in a risky situation. It's not going to put themselves at risk. But it would allow them to hand over this type of capability to Ukrainians, quick little train-up, they disappear, and then Ukrainians take over.

CABRERA: Let's talk a little bit more about where the Russian troops are right now.

This is an image from that 40-mile-long convoy that we are told is currently stalled. But you can see how much support is there on the ground. And just to give our viewers a better sense of where this is, up here to the north is the Belarusian border. And so this is that convoy, which you can see is just to the northwest of the capital of Kyiv here.

We are hearing that Ukrainians have tried to target this convoy. What's the best way to attack it? MARKS: You would hope.

Well, the best way to attack it is from the air, right, but they don't have any capability to do that. Now, they may have some drones that are armed. That could be the case. The Ukrainians were given some drones from the Turks. They may have gotten some from the -- from some of our other allies. I'm not certain.

But that's the best way. A top-down attack is best. But, also, if there are forces or insurgents that have the kind of capabilities like the Javelin, and just some small-arms fire can really do some damage against that convoy. And what you said is most key, which is, it's stalled.

Why is it stalled? I mean, there are a whole bunch of reasons. We could talk about that. But it is a sitting target. That makes it...

CABRERA: Well, what do you think? Why do you think it's stalled?

MARKS: Well, they don't know how to move into Kyiv.

They're starting to pour in all these additional forces. It goes to a very specific airhead, which they established early on. That now becomes a logistics base around the Antonov Airport just to the north and west of Kyiv. And they don't know how to then take those inventories of equipment and ammunition, et cetera, break them down, get them into units, and get them moving.

What you have is a very high-value target at the airport and certainly that convoy. It just can't distribute that stuff well enough.

CABRERA: Well, sadly, it does seem like they are having more success in Southern Ukraine, that is, the Russian forces. So I want to get a lay of the land here.

This is Kherson. This is a big city. And we are understanding that that city may have fallen to Russian forces. This is according to the mayor there. We also have heavy fighting that is continuing over here in the port city of Mariupol, where this is about 400,000 people that live here, and they're really battling right now.

And then on the other side is Odessa. And this is along the Black Sea. And we are told that Russian forces are attempting to create a land bridge that would travel through Kherson and essentially take them all the way up into the Donbass region.

And so I'm wondering, General, in terms of Russian strategy here, how big of an advantage would this give them?

MARKS: Well, you just connected those green circles, Ana.

That gives Russia a land bridge from Crimea, and Russian-owned territory -- could be Ukrainian, whatever the future policy is in terms of governance. But that gives Russia a direct land bridge to the Black Sea. Now, remember, Russia's historic problem has always been they don't have enough warm water ports. This exactly gives them what they need. And it also cuts the

Ukrainians off, if this is a long siege, which it probably will be. Different scenarios we can talk about. But that cuts the Ukrainians off from any support from the Black Sea. The Russians are just going to have their naval forces there. They're not going to be contested.

You don't want to get into a naval fight in the Black Sea. That's like getting into a naval fight in a bathtub. Everybody gets damaged severely. So that cuts you -- the Ukrainian economy off from the Black Sea. And then you begin this slow attrition in terms of Ukraine's ability to resist.

[13:15:04]

That's why it's so important that you have got Poland, you have got Hungary, you have got Romania, you have got those nations that -- where, from NATO, we can continue to push supplies in, unless that land becomes contested shortly as well.

CABRERA: Major General Spider Marks, good to have you here. I really appreciate your time and your expertise. Thank you.

Coming up: The Ukrainian Defense Ministry is now offering to return captured Russian soldiers, but only to their mothers.

That's next.

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CABRERA: Welcome back.

In a strategic move, Ukraine's Defense Ministry is sharing a flyer asking mothers have captured right troops to pick up their son's dead or alive.

[13:20:04]

Valerie Hopkins is a "New York Times" correspondent based in Moscow. She's joining us now from Lviv, Ukraine.

Valerie, what do you make of Ukrainian claims that captured Russian troops are calling home in tears that they have been so caught off- guard, that they aren't being welcomed by Ukrainians?

VALERIE HOPKINS, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Well, thank you so much for having me, Ana.

And the Ukrainians have really tried to appeal to Russia's and the world's sense of humanity. There are billboards all over Kyiv trying to tell Russian soldiers, leave before you become a killer. Don't get blood on your hands. You can save a life.

There's a Web site where they're collecting information about captured Russians. And even Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has been speaking directly to Russians themselves. And I do think It's true. A lot of my colleagues have been speaking to

people in Russia, to family members of soldiers who were sent away and were not told what they were going to be doing or that they would be fighting in a war. A lot of these videos that we're seeing on this Ukrainian Web site are of young boys who look like they're 18 or 19, who are scared and surprised.

And it does seem that these people we're told -- the Russians have been saying that the soldiers would be met with flowers. And, instead, they're being met with a very fierce resistance of the Ukrainian people.

CABRERA: And so now that the reality is sinking in for those family members, what are those families saying?

HOPKINS: Well, those families are expressing shock and concern.

My colleague Ivan spoke to a family member who heard his brother was being dispatched, but -- and hasn't heard from him since the day the war began. People are very worried. There's a hot line, an Organization of Soldiers' Mothers, that's what it's called. And they're fielding about 2,000 calls a day.

And the problem is, though, that it's very difficult in Russia for these families to receive any news about what's happening. The last few remaining independent media outlets have been stifled. It's illegal to call what's happening anything besides a special military operation, so the terms war and invasion are banned.

Schools are undergoing patriotic lessons about the military operation and being taught to support what's going on. And it's very difficult in Russia to get any real news about what's happening.

CABRERA: I think that's such an important point, that Putin is able to control the media and the messaging in Russia.

But I do wonder, when Russian people can escape the impacts, like the families who have lost loved ones on the battlefield, or the impact of the sanctions or companies that are completely cutting ties in Russia, can he still control the narrative and continue to manipulate people with lies?

HOPKINS: No, I believe every single person in Russia today is feeling the consequences of the sanctions; 20 million people in poverty are unable to buy things that they could buy just a few days ago. People's savings have evaporated.

People are not able to buy plane tickets. There are also many, many men of military age who are terrified of being conscripted. But -- so a lot of people I know in Russia have been seeking flights out. They can't buy them if they have foreign credit cards, and they can't really get on a flight. There are only four flights operating, Baku, Istanbul, Iran, Dubai.

And these are people's choices to get out of the country, because they're very scared that conscription may start tomorrow or that martial law could lead to another bad end. And that's also not even mentioning journalists, who are very concerned about a new law against spreading fake news and misinformation about the special military operation in Russia,

CABRERA: Wow, which is, of course, spreading the facts and getting the truth out.

Valerie Hopkins, I appreciate your time. Thank you for your reporting.

I'm going to bring in Timothy Snyder now. He's a history professor at Yale University. He has also written several books, including "On Tyranny," and "The Road to Unfreedom," a look at the rise of authoritarianism from Russia to Europe and America.

And this is your wheelhouse. This is a region well, Tim. And I have to ask you about minutes before our show what we heard from Putin. He said the military operation is going according to plan, that all tasks are being successfully carried out.

This is a man who seems completely detached from reality. What's your take?

TIMOTHY SNYDER, PROFESSOR, YALE UNIVERSITY: Well, it seems clear that the first version of the plan failed.

The first version of the plan, which we know, because some things were accidentally published by the Russians themselves, was within a day or so to take over the territory of Ukraine, capture civic and political leaders, presumably execute them or put them on trial. And the idea was then the rest of the Ukrainian nation would just go along with this.

That has clearly not happened. So we're now on plan B, which seems not so much to be a plan as just a kind of general raging, chaotic action to try to control all of Ukrainian territory come what may. So, clearly, things are not going according to plan. But that doesn't mean that things are good.

[13:25:02]

It means that we have an angry, resisted, tyrannical leader.

CABRERA: Well, and I wonder, does he even know the truth?

You have written that you believe Putin lives in a house of mirrors. Explain what you mean and how that contributes to the current situation.

SNYDER: I think probably you're right that many things are being hidden from Putin.

I would imagine that the people around him are trying very hard to hide from him just how popular Volodymyr Zelensky is. And, in general -- and we know this from the entire philosophy, the entire history, entire literature of tyranny -- tyrants do a very good job of isolating themselves from bad news. But, that said, he can't help but realize that Ukraine didn't fall in

one day, as he expected. And so now he is pushed back into doing whatever it takes to not admit that he made a mistake in the first place. So the natural, predictable response here is going to be to double down to try to get this done as quickly as possible, so he can pretend that he was right all along.

But, of course, the Ukrainians are going to keep resisting.

CABRERA: French President Emmanuel Macron spoke with Putin today as well. And he says Putin plans to go all the way with this invasion.

Do you think Ukraine is Putin's main focus, or is this invasion some kind of diversion or stepping-stone to a broader objective?

SNYDER: I think Putin's main focus is Putin. I think Putin's main focus is being remembered after he's gone as the great Russian leader who unified all of these territories.

I think he's not concerned about Russian interests, or Russia, per se, or Russians or Ukraine or Ukrainians. I think this works in his mind as some kind of great, mystical achievement. I think that's the way that it works for him. So I don't think it's a diversion. But I think he's living -- I think he is living in a kind of alternative reality.

And, unfortunately, he -- from that alternative reality, he's able to coordinate things that happen in our reality, like this just entirely perverse attack on a country that did nothing to deserve it.

CABRERA: He keeps talking about trying to denazify Ukraine, and that doesn't even make sense. Ukraine's president is Jewish.

SNYDER: And he was democratically elected. I mean, it's the furthest thing away.

But it's not just a mistake. It's a deliberate perversion. I mean, he's -- in calling -- when you call the Jews the Nazis, you're engaging in a kind -- they're engaging -- you're engaging in a form of traditional anti-Semitism, which says, no, no, nothing bad happened to the Jews, it was actually the Jews who did the bad things to everyone else, and, therefore, we can take revenge.

What he's trying to do is set the stage for his own kind of perverted Nuremberg, where he puts on trial entirely innocent people for things that never happened in the first place and, along the way, debases the language that we have all used in Russia and in the West and around the world, the language that we take from the Holocaust to try to evaluate what's good and what's evil.

That's a dark dimension to this war. It's not just a war in reality. It's a war over reality. It's a war about how we define reality and what's good and what's evil. He wants these terms to just mean whatever he says they mean. And, of course, if he wins there, that would be a terrible victory, indeed.

CABRERA: I know nothing's black or white here. It's a complex situation. But when you talk about good and evil, what is to happen? How does it end with the good guys winning?

SNYDER: Honestly, I do think some things are black and white. I think I think referring to democratically elected Jewish presidents as Nazis does remind us that there is such a thing is black and white.

And how does this end? I think it ends not with Putin admitting he's wrong. It may end with Russians doing things inside Russia that need to be done. There are three dimensions. There's the battlefield. The Ukrainians have to keep this going as long as possible, so that sanctions can give Russians themselves time to think about what comes next.

And then There ARE the Russian elites, the Russian officers, the Russian soldiers who need to decide for themselves whether theirs is really a war that they ought to be fighting. Some combination of those three things can bring about a peaceful resolution to this, but I'm afraid that's not going to involve Putin admitting that he was wrong.

Nevertheless, I think we shouldn't give up hope that there can be some kind of a compromise. The Ukrainians are the ones who are taking the risks. And they are also the ones who keep telling us about humanitarian values and about peace.

And I think we should be listening to them both ways. We should be admiring them for taking risks, and then we should also be admiring them for saying, we're fighting for something. We're fighting to keep our country going, and we're willing to keep talking about what that means.

CABRERA: Their courage and resilience has been so, so notable.

Timothy Snyder, thank you so much for joining us. It's nice to see you again.

We are on top of all the breaking news out of Ukraine. CNN's Anderson Cooper is talking to civilians who are taking matters into their own hands in this fight.

Stay with us.

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