Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Residents In Lviv, Ukraine Gear Up for a Fight; Biden Administration Plans New Sanctions On Russian Oligarchs; January 6 Panel: Trump Part Of Criminal Conspiracy To Overturn Election. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired March 03, 2022 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: This is a scene that's happening all over Ukraine and we have much more of the defiant spirit of the Ukrainian people coming up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, ANCHOR: You have a message to Vladimir Putin. What is it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): What would I tell him, he says? I would tell him he can go (BLEEP) himself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:35:00]

COOPER: Air raid sirens are going off right now in Lviv, a city which is preparing for the war to come here. Factory workers, teenagers, even beer makers, they're prepping for the fight of their lives. That is all happening here in the city of Lviv which so far has been really untouched by ground battle. That's not stopping residents from getting ready if the fight arrives at their doorstep. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice over): Lviv has so far been mostly unscathed. At night, air raid sirens sounds, but the fight is still further East. Each night, each day, the determination here grows.

At a brewery in Lviv, they now make Molotov cocktails. Tara Maselko (ph) says they've made 2,000 at least, using empty bottles of a popular anti-Putin beer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's "Putin Duren" which means Putin dickhead. And you will see --

COOPER: Wait. The beer is called "Putin Dickhead"?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. COOPER: How long have you've been making Putin Dickhead beer?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Actually, we started to brew this beer in 2015, because in 2014, Russians came to Crimean Peninsula and gathered in Eastern regions. So, this label has a history already. So --

COOPER: Wow.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, you see --

COOPER: That's quite the -- that's quite the image.

COOPER (voice-over): It's a primitive weapon but potentially deadly. These Molotov cocktails also have additional materials in them to ensure the fire will stick to whatever it's thrown at.

COOPER: Petrol alone isn't good enough. You want something to make it sticky so that it sticks on -- on a person?

UNIDENTIFIED: Yes. Stick on the surface.

COOPER: When we got here to the factory, there was a group of maybe 70 or so men who were all standing around a car. And there was somebody in a uniform, a Ukrainian in uniform, who was explaining to them how to throw a Molotov cocktail inside a vehicle to the best effect.

There's a lot of people here who are trying to get as much training as they can in order to be able to face Russian forces, if and when they come.

COOPER (voice-over): In another neighborhood, residents gather supplies and send them wherever they're needed. Spike strips to puncture tires. Flak jackets with metal plates inside.

"We're continuing sending them to our guys there throughout the day," he says. Here you can see camouflage nets. They're to use as a cover so that the enemy doesn't know where our tanks and armored personnel carriers are located. In other rooms we have medicine and groceries."

A week ago, he was a construction worker. But then Putin invaded, and everything changed.

COOPER: You have a message to Vladimir Putin? What is it?

COOPER (voice-over): "What would I tell? him?" he says. "I would tell him he can go (BLEEP) himself."

COOPER (voice-over): Before leaving, we meet Pavlo (ph) and his son Artur (ph), just 10 months old, wrapped in the Ukrainian flag. He told me, "I just want to say my son Artur (ph) will learn to say, "glory to Ukraine" faster than he says mom or dad."

COOPER: Those will be his first words, "slava Ukrayini"?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (on camera): And "slava Ukrayini" is glory to Ukraine, which is, Alisyn and Victor, that is the greeting that soldiers -- it's the official greeting of the army. Soldiers say it to one another. You say, "Glory to Ukraine" and they say back "glory to the heroes."

Gosh, it's remarkable, Anderson, just to see what regular people are resorting to and that boxes and boxes of Molotov cocktails there.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Use what you have and that's what they've got. Anderson Cooper, thank you.

We're following breaking news out of the White House where President Biden announced new sanctions on Russian oligarchs. We'll have more on that and Putin's war in Ukraine. That's next.

[15:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: President Biden just slapped more sanctions on Russian oligarchs, their family members and their companies. Others oligarchs are already losing their luxuries. Russian oil giant Igor Shuvalov today said good-bye to his true love. That was the name of his super- yacht, as French officials seized it.

Chelsea football club will soon have new leadership as its Russian billionaire owner announce plans to sell it. This is all part of an effort to put pressure on Putin.

Here to discuss this and much more we have Michael Bociurkiw. He nonresident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council. He is in Lviv, Ukraine. Also, with us Steve Hall, CNN national security analyst and former CIA chief of Russia operations. Gentlemen, good to see you. Michael, I just want to start with you. Because you're in Lviv. Anderson Cooper is reporting live there for us. We just heard that haunting sound of the sirens going off tonight there where you are and I know you've been in Ukraine for almost a month now. I have to assume that every day gets more tense. Are you planning to leave soon?

MICHAEL BOCIURKIW, FORMER SPOKESMAN, ORGANIZATION FOR SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN EUROPE: Yes, well, good to be with you. Yes, if I look anxious, that's the very reason why. For the second time in 30 minutes the sirens have gone off. They went off very early this morning. So, the residents of Lviv, and don't forget there are probably tens of thousands of displaced people here as well, that aren't going to get much sleep right now.

I am planning to stay. I mean, I want to do what I'm doing with you right now telling the world what we're seeing. But, Alisyn, I got to tell you, I mean, I stayed at a Ukrainian family's home last night and we started the evening with about eight people but early this morning we were down to seven because the 16-year-old son of the host, the mother, went to fight on the front lines. You can barely imagine what that person must feel like.

[15:45:02]

But also, I think that these types of scenarios, get wrenching, by playing themselves out right across the country as people make decisions of what to do. But I have to tell you one more thing and trust me, it makes me sick to my stomach just to think this. That to a twisted mind, Mr. Putin, would see Lviv as a very big prize because this is really the center of patriotism in Ukraine this is where a lot of the dissidents who suffered in the Soviet gulag came from. This is where a lot of the Ukrainian, Lviv -- including my own family, trace our roots to. So, it's a beautiful, lovely city normally. But right now, it's definitely a city on edge.

CAMEROTA: Michael, I so appreciate you just bringing this to the very personal story, which it is for the millions of people there obviously. And, Steve, the U.S. assesses that Putin is moving into a more lethal phase and we've already seen that they are indiscriminately hitting civilian targets. They can say whatever they want. We've seen schools hit. We've seen apartment buildings hit. Is there any off-ramp at this point? Any face-saving measure for Putin where this doesn't have to happen?

STEVE HALL, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: You know, Alisyn, I think Gary Kasparov put it well, which is that we perhaps ought not to be looking for off ramps for Vladimir Putin. We should be looking at off ramps for the Russian people. Of course, that implies it would be nice if they could get rid of Putin. And you know, you were mentioning the sanctions earlier against the oligarchs, they're basically Putin's money launderers. So, it's good that were increasing pressure.

But the group that I'm really looking at is the security military elites. You know, we have a three-part government here in the United States. It's a little bit like that in Russia. You have Putin and you've got these security elites and then you've that the oligarchs. And it's really these that could really take some significant action against Putin if the pressure inside of Russia got so bad. So, it will be interesting to see what happens.

CAMEROTA: Michael, Putin just made a statement in Moscow in which he said, quote, I will never give up my belief that Russians and Ukrainians are one people, despite the fact that part of Ukrainians were threatened and tricked by the Nazi nationalist propaganda. What's your response and what does that tell you about his mind-set?

BOCIURKIW: It's sickening and it's echoing what, you know, his speech he gave before the violence began of what he plans for Ukraine. I wouldn't have said this maybe three or four days ago but now I and many others I talked to here are beginning to think that he's after an invasion of the entire country. And as one of your previous analysts said it already looks like he's building that land bridge, the coveted land bridge between the Russian mainland and Crimea so it doesn't stuck in water and other supplies.

You will see, Alisyn, and because of this, these types of statements, a big, big increase in the number of people leaving the country. Right now, we're up to about 1 million that could go up to 5 million. I am heartened by the fact that my government, just a few hours ago announced a unlimited resettlement program for Ukrainians. They can come to Canada eased rules and stay for a long time. And that's what other countries like the United States needs to do because it doesn't look like, sadly, there's going to be a quick end to this.

And just one more point. As was pointed out a lot of women and children are getting caught in the crossfire. And I'm telling you things today that are very, very hard for me to say because I was a spokesperson for UNICEF and other U.N. agencies, but it really hurts me, angers me, actually, that none of the U.N. agencies seem to be able to call out the aggressor, Russia, by name. These are agencies that are tasked but saving the lives, protecting women and children. If they're not willing to criticize Russia or Mr. Putin by name, we have a big problem on our hand.

But, Michael, what do you mean by that? How are they using kid gloves with Russia and Putin?

BOCIURKIW: So, I'll give you an example. Yesterday I was on the W.H.O. press conference, the Director General was speaking I was the first one up to ask a question -- we did this virtually. And I said why is it that, you know, in my day we were able to call out the Myanmar generals or warring sides and wherever they are in the world and today you can't seem to bring yourself to name Russia or Mr. Putin. They call them the warring sides. They used language like that.

The answer, well, we don't want to get involved in politics. But I think if big organizations like WHO and UNICEF aren't willing to call out Mr. Putin and Russia by name, who will?

[15:50:00]

These are organizations which were formed to prevent the sort of conflict that is happening right now, and yet, as you say, they are approaching this with kid gloves. It has upset a lot a lot of people who either work or have worked for the organization.

CAMEROTA: Steve, very quickly. President Zelensky of Ukraine thinks that it's not just Ukraine, the entire country that Putin wants. He's suggesting that Putin will be emboldened if he gets Ukraine and he'll go further. Do you think that's true?

HALL: Well, it's certainly something to be concerned about. Remember how this started. We're just helping, Putin said, you know, the Donbas region, which is, you know, being under further attack by the Ukraine. Which of course is a lie. So, you know, now he's all of Ukraine, that's clear. So, after that what's next, the Baltic states? I mean, we do have to think -- OK, where are we going to stop Putin? I agree with Michael. People have to stand up, organizations, companies, governments have to stand up and all them out. And say, look, this is it, enough is enough, you're not going to go any further.

CAMEROTA: Michael Bociurkiw if you please stay safe. We so appreciate you being there and really look forward to talking to you. Steve Hall, thank you very much for all your expertise as well.

Well, January 6 committee accused former president Donald Trump and a right-wing lawyer of being part of a, quote, criminal conspiracy to overturn the 2020 election. This is part of a new court filing. We have all the details, next.

[15:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: The January 6th House Select Committee is accusing former President Trump and lawyer John Eastman of being part of a, quote, criminal conspiracy to overturn the 2020 election. The allegation is part of a court filing by the committee in an attempt to access Eastman's emails. Eastman is refusing to turn some over, claiming attorney/client privilege.

BLACKWELL: Also today, former Trump White House Spokesman Judd Deere appeared before the committee. The lawmakers believe he has firsthand knowledge of Trump's behavior before and during the Capitol riot. Let's discuss with Harry Litman. Who is a former U.S. attorney and former deputy assistant attorney general.

He's also host of "The Talking Feds" podcast. Harry, welcome back. So, let's start here with this allegation of a criminal conspiracy. One, do you see the evidence to support that? And second, should we then expect a referral over to the DOJ or is that too neat and short of a line to draw so soon?

HARRY LITMAN, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: Yes, and yes. But what happens after that, Victor, is the real question. So, the committee, as Alisyn says, this is just part of a motion to defeat an attorney/client privilege claim of John Eastman, the conservative lawyer who propounded the whole wacko theory. And he's trying to protect on attorney client privilege, his documents. His testimony he's already pleaded the fifth to.

On the documents, he saying attorney/client privilege. It's a lousy claim for several reasons, but one of them -- and this is the third, the court doesn't need to adopt it is, that if your client -- here, Donald Trump -- is actually planning a crime, there's no attorney/client privilege. So, that leads the committee to say, look, there are two federal crimes afoot here, basically having to do with deceitfully trying to keep the Congress from doing its work.

Pretty important and they do drop some of the voluminous evidence they have been getting. Basically, where people say to Trump, no, ifs, ands or buts, you're totally all wet here and that tends to show his intent that he can't say it's at all innocent.

So that's happening now for that motion and I think it means they will almost certainly do a referral down the line, maybe in a couple months. Then it lands on the lap of Merrick garland, who I think will say, thank you very much, but it's to us to exercise independent judgment. Unlike the referral you gave us before about contempt where you, Congress, were the victim, this is just a referral like any other. Of course, it matters that Congress did it. It course it pushes things a smidgeon, but I don't think it will materially affect how the DOJ approaches the possible referral. CAMEROTA: OK. Next topic, former Attorney General Bill Barr is

peddling his new book. He has chosen NBC news for his first sit-down. And I'll play you a clip where he talks about trying to talk sense to former President Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL BARR, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL: And I told him that all this stuff was bull (BEEP) and about election fraud. And, you know, it was wrong to be shoveling it out the way his team was. And he started asking me about different theories and I has the answers. I was able to tell him this is wrong because of this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're trying to set him straight.

BARR: Yes, and yeah, he listened. He was obviously getting very angry about this. I said, OK, well, look, I understand you're upset with me and I'm perfectly happy to tender my resignation. And then, boom --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He slaps the desk.

BARR: And he slapped the desk and he said accepted, accepted, and then boom, he slapped it again, accepted. Go home, don't go back to your office. Go home.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: There's so much there, Harry. I mean that's the illustrative of lots of different things but that is the first time that we've heard the real back story of his resignation.

LITMAN: Yes, so two or three things I know were at the end. First, it goes with what we were just saying another clear indication, Trump, you are full if and that means what he is doing is done with deceitful intent. As to Barr, it shows again, Trump has no friends who he keeps for a long times. And that he was so vehement that he would actually take the hit -- and it was a hit -- when Barr walked away because everyone knows it was Barr who had been a friend to him who was putting this out and Trump cared more about the lie than he did about the political hit. 18 more things to say but those I think are the headlines.

[16:00:00]

BLACKWELL: Listen, I know you're watching the clock. We are too. Harry Litman getting us in and out on time. I don't know if anyone is surprised by that story but it still is striking to hear.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely, yes. We always appreciate when our guest is a clock watcher so we don't have to be.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Very nice.

BLACKWELL: "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.