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Ukraine: Russia Military Opens Fire On Protesters; Ukraine: Civilian Evacuations Halted After Russia Violates Ceasefire; Putin Says Any Countries Imposing No-Fly Zone Would Be Considered Participating In The Armed Conflict; CNN At Site Of Destruction As Russian Forces Close In; Ukraine Conflict Fueling Sharp Jump In Prices At The Pump; Blinken Arrives In Poland As Ukraine Refugee Crisis Worsens. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired March 05, 2022 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:29]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST (on camera): Hello again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us for this special CNN coverage. I'm Fredricka Whitfield in Atlanta, alongside my colleague Jim Sciutto reporting from the Lviv, Ukraine. I want to welcome our viewers here in the U.S. and around the world.

So, we begin with this breaking news. Brand new video in to CNN, showing Russian soldiers firing warning shots at protesters in the eastern Ukrainian city of Novopskov.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD (voice-over): Nearly unflinching there. This was a small group of protesters walking the streets, and they were chanting Ukraine, Ukraine.

Another video showing at least one person hit by gunfire. CNN has been able to confirm the authenticity of the video. See it right there.

And it comes as Russian President Vladimir Putin issues a new threat today, saying sanctions are the equivalent to a declaration of war.

Chaotic scenes also unfolding in southern Ukraine. A plan to ceasefire to allow civilian evacuations, postponed. Ukrainians accusing Russians of continuing the shelling. Residents in Mariupol urge to seek shelter immediately.

CNN has reporters on the ground in Ukraine and around the globe following these latest developments.

Jim Sciutto is in Lviv, and let's pick up our coverage from there. Jim.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Yes, sharp warning -- stark warnings from Putin today.

Thanks so much, Fred.

The shelling continues.

SCIUTTO (voice-over): In southern Ukraine, this is the government there accuses Russia of violating a ceasefire in and around Mariupol, worsening what was already a dangerous deadly situation for civilians trying to evacuate.

CNN's Scott McLean is live in Lviv. And Scott, this is a truly concerning development because the humanitarian corridors really the only way for people to get safely out of these areas.

SCIUTTO (on camera): But if those corridors aren't safe, they don't have a way to get out.

The question is, can Russia be trusted to stick to these ceasefires?

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): That is exactly the question that one of the Ukrainian negotiators was asked at a press briefing just yesterday.

He helped broker this deal with Russia to arrange these humanitarian corridors. And essentially, he said, no, I can't stand here and say that we can trust the Russians to play by the rules. But the situation right now in Mariupol, in Volnovakha, in so many other cities across the country is so dire that they have to try -- they don't have a choice, but to try to work with the Russians.

Now they are working through an intermediary, the Red Cross that is trying to coordinate things on the ground, the Red Cross has acknowledged that look, today, it is simply not going to happen. There was a seven-hour window for this -- for this to happen. It expired at about 4:00, which is a couple of hours ago.

And so now, perhaps tomorrow, perhaps in the coming days. But I think that there has to be some level of trust here established because the Ukrainians, as you heard from the deputy mayor, Jim, the Ukrainians are now accusing the Russians of specifically targeting civilians with their artillery.

We had also heard that there was fighting along the route that, that convoy was going to take. The established route that it -- that it had been agreed upon. In another city, Volnovakha, they only lasted about 2-1/2 hours into that ceasefire that would have allowed people to leave.

And so, only a couple of 100 people, we understand from the Ukrainians managed to get out before the whole operation was called off.

And we are starting to feel the effects here in Lviv. We are not far from the central train station here. Unfortunately, we can't get a signal over there because there are just so, so many people.

I've been at this station -- train station for a couple of days, and I've never seen it quite like this. There is a lineup that appears to be several hours long just to get into the station. And then, from there, you have to line up to get on a train to Poland, and these trains come very sporadically, they're not coming so often, the lines are long, and it is almost entirely women and children.

There's another car in this parking lot, just adjacent to where I am and there's an entire family in there. Minus the husband who has gone back to Kharkiv to fight.

[12:04:59]

MCLEAN: And so now, it's a mother, her elder son, and three young daughters trying to figure out, asking us if there is a place for them to stay. If we -- if we know where there's a shelter around here.

They're in their car. They've been driving for several days to try to get just this far, and they still have a ways to go to get out of Poland.

The question that I had for some people is, why not just stay here in Lviv that is still relatively safe? But given what people have seen in this country, they simply do not trust that the Russians won't come here, there, and everywhere. Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And it's just amazing to see it unfold in so many places here. Scott McLean, thanks so much.

Well, the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelensky, he is calling on U.S .lawmakers to impose even harsher sanctions on Russia, as the U.S. and Western allies continue to roll out new restrictions on the Kremlin, in response to its invasion of Ukraine.

Now, Russian President Vladimir Putin has issued a warning of his own with Russian oil sanctions now on the table. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA (through translator): Much of what is happening and what we are seeing right now is, of course, a way of fighting Russia and the sanctions being introduced.

They are equivalent to a declaration of war now. Thank God this hasn't happened yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Equivalent to a declaration of war. Ominous words from the Russian president.

Joining me now to discuss, CNN military analyst, retired U.S. Air Force colonel, Cedric Leighton. Good to have you on.

First of all, what do you make of his words? Because earlier, he already said that if a no-fly zone would be imposed, those countries -- Russia would consider those countries as participating in armed conflict, in effect, declaring war on them if it were to happen.

But to say that sanctions are a declaration of war, should we take him at his word?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, I'm afraid so, Jim. I -- you know, he is -- President Putin is a very directed his language often. And in this particular case, I think that what he's saying is, no matter what you do against us, we are going to find a way to go after you.

Now, what they may do is something like a cyber-attack or something like that. Because what he's -- what I think he is looking at is perhaps green lighting those kinds of activities -- those kinds of asymmetric activities against the U.S. and its allies.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Well spotted there. In fact, it's an aspect of this war. I'm surprised, frankly, we haven't seen yet on Ukraine or on the U.S. massive cyber-attacks that have been part of U.S. intelligence assessments going into this.

I want to ask you, Cedric, where you stand on the progress of this war. Because in the last two hours, I had two different views. Spider Marks, who you know well, seem to say he sees a steady Russian advance, he has a bloody one, but steady advance.

Mark Hertling, his view is that Russia is about to reach some sort of breaking point here that they've stretched their supply lines, their most elite units have not performed. I wonder where you stand.

LEIGHTON: Well, I think the Russians are moving forward, Jim, in spite of the difficulties that they've had with their operational plans and executing those plans. So, what I see is no relenting in their -- in their efforts to go after main points, like Kyiv, and Kharkiv.

So, those two major cities are definitely still in their crosshairs. And in spite of the logistical difficulties that they have, I think the Russians are going to overcome them, at least enough to reach the outskirts of all of those cities, and potentially join the forces that they have in the south to go all the way up to the --

(CROSSTALK)

SCIUTTO: Yes.

LEIGHTON: To the northern part, to Kyiv, and to Kharkiv if they need to reinforce that area.

SCIUTTO: We've already seen Russian forces attack civilians, civilian areas, civilian targets with increasing impunity, as those forces have run into Ukrainian resistance. Sadly, do you expect that to continue, perhaps, accelerate?

LEIGHTON: Unfortunately, I do, Jim. I think that, you know, targeting civilians is absolutely part of the Russian playbook. And it's not so much that they're targeting them, you know, with precision-guided ammunitions or anything like that. But they just don't care, and it's part of a terror effort.

They believe that if they terrorize the population, the population will bend to their will. It's kind of like what happened in the run-up to World War II, when people thought that bombing campaigns would terrorize the civilian populations. And to that's precisely what happened in many cases in World War II.

SCIUTTO: Understood. Yes, yes. So, another question is, what more can the U.S. and NATO do with a no fly zone off the table? That there has been discussion of greater air assets. In other words, giving more aircraft to the Ukrainian Air Force, getting them in beyond the weapons that are already being supplied. Anti-aircraft, anti-tank weapons.

Is that a viable option?

[12:10:01]

LEIGHTON: it's a difficult option. I guess it's somewhat viable, depending on how much territory the Ukrainians are controlling. And especially, if they control -- remain in control of their airfields, or at least some of their airfields. So, they would need to have the ability to take off and land from Ukrainian airfields. They would need the ability to resupply through munitions and fuel.

Their aircraft, you know, the new aircraft that they would get in a scenario like that. But it is certainly a possibility. I -- the thing with that, though, is that we have to watch for a possible widening of the conflict if they come from a third country.

SCIUTTO: Yes. I was going to say, I mean, are there any circumstances under which those aircraft could take off from a country other than Ukraine fly in? Or would that still cross that line? It seems that NATO does not want to cross which would be Russia interpreting that as NATO being in this war.

LEIGHTON: I think Russia would definitely interpret it as NATO being in this war. The question then is how long do we wait before the humanitarian crisis gets even worse than it currently is?

And it's, of course, terrible now is, as you've noted. And it's a very dicey situation, no matter what you end up doing, it would seek -- would end up provoking the ire of the Russians, and it could potentially result in them going after those aircraft and shooting them down even before they reach Ukrainian airspace.

SCIUTTO: Yes, the potential for a widening conflict i's there. Colonel Cedric Leighton, thanks so much as always.

LEIGHTON: You bet, Jim.

SCIUTTO: In Kyiv, the capital, the effort to escape is becoming more challenging as shelling continues.

CNN chief international correspondent Clarissa Ward spoke with my colleague, John Berman earlier this morning. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): We are here on the northern western outskirts of Kyiv, at the entrance to a place called Irpin.

WARD (voice-over): And basically what you're seeing here is people who have been under heavy bombardment now for seven straight days, finally, managing to flee from this area of Irpin.

And if we pan over here, my cameraman Scott McWhinnie, can show you the bridge here that connects Irpin to central Kyiv has been destroyed. That was destroyed by Ukrainian forces to prevent Russian forces from moving on into central Kyiv.

WARD (on camera): But what you're seeing now is that people have to navigate and cross on foot, this destroyed bridge in order to get out safely.

Now, since we've been here, we have heard nonstop heavy artillery coming from that direction. Also that direction.

You can imagine how petrified these people are. Many of them have been pinned down for days on end. You can see them here. They've got their pets. They've got small carry-on bags.

We have seen a lot of people who are elderly, a lot of people who have difficulty walking. We're seeing a lot of people who are clearly visibly shaken, petrified, because they have been trapped in terrible bombardment for days on end, and are just now starting to get out.

And I've got to tell you, John, it just doesn't stop the steady stream of people that keep coming, trying to cross the bridge. You can see there's actually water flowing through it they have to walk across a sort of plank when you could see the upturned car from when that bridge was originally downed.

But this, for the people of Irpin is the only way to safety. And it is relative safety, of course, because even the city center is being encroached upon as the fighting gets closer and closer.

I don't know if my microphone is picking up on that artillery, but it is a steady stream of thuds that have been ongoing since we got here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Clarissa Ward, there just outside Kyiv.

Well, the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelensky is again calling for U.S. military assistance and establishing a no-fly zone over Ukraine as well as harsher economic sanctions on Russia.

He made the request during a Zoom call with U.S. senators this morning. That call comes as Russian President Putin issued a new threat today, saying that he would consider countries imposing a no- fly zone over Ukraine as participating in armed conflict, in effect, a declaration of war.

CNN's Kevin Liptak is in Wilmington, Delaware where the president is spending the weekend.

Kevin, I wonder -- you're hearing these calls every day from the Ukrainian president, but also from some lawmakers pushing the administration for more.

[12:15:02]

SCIUTTO: It does seem that the no-fly zone is off the table. So, what is on the table exactly in terms of increased assistance to Ukraine?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER (on camera): Well, really at the centerpiece of this call was President Zelensky kind of making this impassioned plea for the United States to do more. He laid out a number of things that he wanted to see. Some are on the table, some aren't on the table.

One of the things he mentioned was a ban on Russian oil imports into the United States. And that is actually under active consideration at the White House. They are doing a review right now on how it might affect the global oil prices.

He also called for tighter economic sanctions, essentially, making sure that Visa and MasterCard can't work in Russia.

But maybe the most important thing that he called for was essentially to shut down the skies over Ukraine.

And of course, he is calling for that no-fly zone. I think he understands that the United States is not behind that and won't be getting behind that. Short of that, he's asking for the United States to help facilitate shipments of fighter jets to Ukraine.

Aircraft, drones, that kind of thing that can help him sustain the fight against Russia. One of the things he wants the United States to do is to help fraud Eastern European nations who have some of these stockpiles of Soviet-era aircraft. Those are planes that the Ukrainian pilots can actually fly.

They're sitting in countries like Poland, Hungary, Slovakia, and he's trying to convince the United States to convince its European partners, that those are necessary.

So, after the call, you did hear Republican and Democratic support for that step, as the Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer said that he "will do everything I can to help the administration to facilitate that transfer."

You also heard Ben Sasse, he's the Republican from Nebraska. He said, "Ukraine needs airpower urgently and America should send it."

Now, we're told that there is an ongoing debate both within the Biden administration and among these other countries that have these plans about whether this would be a smart idea.

The same concerns are escalating this conflict further exists there. So, it's not clear that this is going to happen. Now, as this call was wrapping up, all of the senators who are on it, unmuted their lines, and they said, Slava Ukraini. That means Glory to Ukraine.

Zelensky was touched, we're told by that gesture, but clearly he wants more than words from the United States going forward, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Yes, his calls getting more urgent. They are daily. We'll see how and when the U.S .and NATO respond.

Kevin Liptak there in Delaware. Thanks so much.

LIPTAK: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Still to come this hour, the number of -- number of refugees fleeing Ukraine has now grown to more than 1.3 million people in just a little more than a week. It's amazingly fast.

SCIUTTO (voice-over): We're going to be live on the ground in Moldova, just across the border from Ukraine as countries, even companies are pledging their support to Ukrainians fleeing the war for their lives.

Here is what Airbnb CEO had to say about the crisis, as the company offers free temporary housing to up to 100,000 refugees.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN CHESKY, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, AIRBNB: It's incredibly sad to watch every single day. And we thought the moment this huge refugee crisis occurred, we asked how can we help? And the answer is to provide housing for as many people as possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:22:30]

SCIUTTO (on camera): More than 1.3 million Ukrainians have now fled the country that according to the U.N.

SCIUTTO (voice-over): All this since the deadly Russian invasion began just a little more than a week ago. It's remarkably fast pace.

Poland has taken in more than half a million of those refugees. Others have gone to Hungary, Slovakia, Germany, Romania, and Moldova.

CNN's Ivan Watson joins us now from the capital there. Ivan. I mean, these refugee flows are just incredible. And we're seeing an enormous amount of generosity from neighboring countries. You visited a number of these countries, what have you seen?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Yes, I mean, there is an outpouring. And that is heartwarming. In the midst of just this mass migration of humanity, the Ukrainians are the world's newest refugees.

And as you mentioned, the numbers are huge. Now, my team and I, we've traveled across four countries that border Ukraine. That's Slovakia, and Hungary and Romania and now, Moldova.

And everywhere in the border regions, you can spot Ukrainians are on the move. And nine times out of 10, it's a woman dragging a single rolling suitcase and a child by the other hand. It is women, it is children --

(CROSSTALK)

SCIUTTO: Yes.

WATSON: And sometimes the elderly. And they are in the guest houses, they are in the hotels. They're waiting in train stations, and at airports, all kind of on the move, trying to figure out where to go next. As you mentioned, there is an outpouring of supports of ordinary people who are helping to ferry the Ukrainians to the next point where they can kind of move on to let's say, a train station or a shelter where they can warm up and get some food.

I've seen toys donated so that their kids can play during those pauses and try to have some sense of normality. And it is striking to see but everybody knows that this number will get bigger.

And here in Moldova. Jim, people here are nervous and some Moldovans have started to leave as well, joining the Ukrainians who are on the move. Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And we met a family today. A mom with three young kids, of course, the men -- their military age, they have to stay behind.

Ivan Watson there in Moldova.

[12:25:01]

SCIUTTO: In the last hour, I spoke with the deputy mayor of Mariupol. I asked him if the U.S., NATO, and Europe, in his view, are doing enough to help this country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SERGEI ORLOV, DEPUTY MAYOR, MARIUPOL, UKKRAINE: I think that help is very good and very powerful -- very powerful. But it's clearly understand that we need help to defeat our enemies from the air.

I don't know which the way is best one or setting no-fly area were given for us, anti-missile, anti-aircraft weapon. I don't know why, I'm not military specialist. But I know that they use -- it's war crimes. We face in war crimes. Hour by hour, second by second, he is killing our people on the street of Mariupol.

SCIUTTO: I have to ask about your own family. Is your own family stuck there with you?

ORLOV: I don't have connection with my mother, father, and brother for four days. I don't know do they're alive or do they leave or not?

(END VIDEO CLIP) SCIUTTO: He does not know if his own family is alive or not. The U.S. State Department is once again today, urging Americans not to travel to Russia. Earlier this week, the state department told Americans to consider leaving immediately while commercial flights were still departing the country.

In the U.S., the new conflict in Ukraine is being felt in American pocketbooks, specifically at the gas pump. Prices hitting over $4 a gallon in some states now. We're going to speak about that. Coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:31:02]

WHITFIELD: All right, sticker shock at the pump is one of the first consequences Americans are seeing from this conflict in Ukraine. CNN's Camila Bernal joining me now from Los Angeles were gas prices are now averaging more than $5 a gallon. Camila, what are you learning? And what are people saying?

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It is unbelievable here in California, Fred. But nationally, we're waking up today with an average of $3.92. So we're just cents away from that $4 a gallon as the national average. So experts are saying that we can get there just in the next couple of days.

As you mentioned, the average here in California is $5.18. And there are places where it's even worse, like here in Los Angeles at this gas station. Regular gas is going for $6.95 for that premium gas, you're paying $7.55. And it could get worse as this conflict in Russia and Ukraine continues.

Since the invasion of Ukraine, we saw a 37 cents increase in the price of gas. And just in the last few days, an increase of 19 cents, that makes a huge difference for so many here in the U.S. And especially for example for people like rideshare drivers, I talked to one of them. His name is Benjamin Valdez. And he told me that he works at least three days a week. And this increase is making a huge difference for him. Here's what he told me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN VALDEZ, LOS ANGELES UBER DRIVER: I was putting in probably around $60 for a full tank. And now it's climbed up to about 90. So it's getting up there. If I drive 200 miles, I'm spending $50 in gas. And if I make $150 to $200 in that night, I'm cutting at least one- third of my expense in gas alone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERNAL: So it's so many people not just rideshare drivers, taxi drivers, truckers, but really anyone that gets in a car anyone with a commute will notice the difference. And unfortunately Fred, it could continue to go up.

WHITFIELD: All right, we're all bracing. All right, Camila Bernal, thank you so much.

Betsey Stevenson served on President Obama's Council of Economic Advisers and is now a professor of public policy and economics at the University of Michigan, so good to see you. All right, so let's begin with the basics. You know, why is the conflict in Ukraine already being felt in the U.S. financially?

BETSEY STEVENSON, PROFESSOR OF PUBLIC POLICY & ECONOMICS, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN: Well, you know, we are a very globally integrated economy. And, you know, Russia provides a lot of oil and gas that goes to Europe, that's not coming to us. But if the Europeans aren't able to get it from Russia, where are they going to buy it from, right? And that's going to push up prices globally.

And that, you know, that trickles right down to what we see at the pump. So crude oil prices have risen 20 percent over the last two weeks. And, you know, that that is because of our integration in oil markets. And that's not going away anytime soon.

WHITFIELD: So U.S. lawmakers on both sides, you know, who are angry about the invasion are calling on the Biden administration to end all Russian oil imports. Here's what Secretary of State Antony Blinken said about that possibility. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: There's no strategic interest in reducing the global supply of energy. The immediate effect would be to raise prices at the pump for Americans, and also to pad Russian profits with rising prices.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So what about the idea of cutting off Russian oil imports altogether?

STEVENSON: Well, I mean, it's exactly what he just said is it would reduce supply. Reducing supply will push up prices. And, you know, sometimes when you're selling, you'd rather sell less at a higher price. So it's not clear, you know, if we're not able to completely cut Russia off just how much you're hurting them and we know for sure how much you're hurting the globe because you'd be pushing those prices up. That's the decision about whether to do that or not is a geopolitical one, I'm just an economist.

[12:35:10]

And what I'll tell you is, if we were to cut that, cut price before it -- cutting the supply off completely, it is going to push prices up a lot. And I think, you know, Americans just need to understand that we're exposed to, you know, geopolitical risk in this way, because of the fact that a modern economy really benefits from being integrated.

We get all the good side. But that also means we get the downside. And the downside is, right now Russia and Ukraine are in a conflict. And that is going to really affect consumers at the pump and in the grocery store.

WHITFIELD: And in one of the other ways that it impacts you in the grocery store is that Russia is the world's biggest wheat exporter. And Ukraine is up there in the top five. And you can see right here that the price of wheat took off right as Russia invaded Ukraine. So how is that going to affect how much it costs for an average family to put bread on the table?

STEVENSON: Look, I think one of the big challenges that American families are facing right now is because of all the supply disruptions that happened to the COVID. What the prices that have been up have been fuel and food. And this is being exacerbated by what's happening between Russia and the Ukraine. Ukraine is Europe's breadbasket. Russia is also a big part of global wheat exports, and global corporate corn exports.

So wheat, corn, and maybe it's smaller, but they got a big share of the sunflower seeds market as well. So we put those things together, we're going to -- if we're not getting access to that Russia and Ukraine supply, which it would seem kind of hard for us to get access to during a conflict, that's going to drive prices up.

And that's going to affect everything from, you know, the price of a loaf of bread to your cereal, really to think about everything you buy has a little bit of corn or wheat in it, almost. So we're going to see prices going up in the grocery store for sure.

WHITFIELD: All right, and so another kind of geopolitical question, but it's also an economic one, you know, what is the best way to punish Vladimir Putin without further punishing the world? I mean, is the U.S. on the right track with going after Putin's assets, the assets and resources of Russian oligarchs?

STEVENSON: Well, I mean, you know, I'm going to leave the details of that to people who do foreign policy. But I think what I really want to draw attention to is, you know, we benefit, we benefited in 2008, during our recession from being able to export globally to countries that weren't having as bad of a recession.

But what is happening now is we're losing access to foreign markets, and we're losing access to foreign inputs. And that's going to hurt us. And there's just no way around that. There's no strategy that the Biden administration or that Europe can do to shield us at this point, from having the economic consequences.

But I think the important thing to realize is those economic consequences are harder on Russia. And so that's the goal is to try to hurt Russia, but there's not a really good way to insulate Americans from the pain of this right now. You know, and I think the -- maybe this is not that helpful, but to realize that when this conflict ends, we all benefit from sort of going back to having that globally integrated economy. But when there is a risk anywhere in the globe, we now feel it.

WHITFIELD: All right, Professor Betsey Stevenson, thank you so much. Good to see you. Appreciate your time. STEVENSON: Thank you.

[12:38:39]

WHITFIELD: All right, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken traveling from Brussels, Belgium to Poland. After the break, a look at his firsthand experience of the refugee crisis as thousands flee from Ukraine.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: This just in the CNN, Israel's Prime Minister Naftali Bennett is in Moscow now meeting with Russia's President Vladimir Putin. This according to the Israeli Prime Minister's Office, which just released a statement saying in part that the meeting is taking place with the blessing of the U.S. administration, that's notable because there's been talk of Israel perhaps mediating the conflict between Russia and Ukraine. We'll see what comes out of those conversations.

Also today, the U.S. Secretary of State Tony Blinken, he's just across the border for me in Poland right now. He's been meeting with leaders of that key NATO ally, as well as with Ukrainian refugees who are pouring into Poland by the hundreds of thousands, Blinken there to discuss security for Poland, but also financial assistance for the growing refugee crisis Poland is facing.

Natasha Bertrand, she's at E.U. headquarters in Brussels. Natasha, I know that in all these conversations, options, further options to aid Ukraine militarily are being discussed. We just had the Ukrainian President meet by zoom with U.S. senators. And it seemed that one focus of that conversation was the possibility of NATO sending more aircraft to Ukraine for the Ukrainian Air Force. Do we know where that stands now?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's right, Jim. So what we're told is that Zelenskyy was essentially pleading with these lawmakers to make the case to the United States that they should allow these Eastern European countries including Poland where the Secretary of State has been today to send fighter jets to Ukraine in order to fend off this Russian onslaught.

[12:45:15]

Now, Zelenskyy is pleading to the united to the United States and to NATO to set up a no fly zone. That does not seem to be on the table at this point, because what the U.S. and NATO say is that that could create a direct confrontation with the Russians. However, Zelenskyy saying, OK, if that is not an option, then please give us these jets so that we can have a better chance of defending our cities and our civilians from these Russian airstrikes.

And so what we're told is that this came up on the call, this was something that Zelenskyy was telling at the lawmakers to please consider and to please take back and to please push for, it remains unclear how advanced those discussions are, though, we are told that the United States has been discussing it with European allies kind of weighing the cost and benefit of that. But right now, they are very reluctant. Their risk tolerance is pretty low at this point, reluctant to provide those fighter jets in the event that Russia might see it as an escalation.

I recall earlier this week, Poland signaled that it might be willing to send those fighter jets to Ukraine, however, it seems like that has been walked back for the time being moving forward, though those discussions are taking place, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Natasha Bertrand there at E.U. headquarters, thanks very much. You were looking at live pictures there. She was speaking of Tony Blinken meeting with the congressional delegation joining him in Poland. We're bringing more news on Ukraine as it comes. And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:51:01]

WHITFIELD: Welcome back, we continue to see devastating images out of Ukraine, families forced to separate as women and children flee the Russian invasion, as Ukrainian men of military age stay behind to fight. And if you're a parent or guardian of young people watching all of this on television or online, in your home, you're probably wondering if you're exposing them or shielding your kids or at a minimum talking to them about all of this appropriately.

Well, licensed therapist Jody Baumstein joining me right now to talk about how to have these conversations with our kids, so good to see you.

JODY BAUMSTEIN, LICENSED THERAPIST, CHILDREN'S HEALTHCARE OF ATLANTA STRONG4LIFE: Good to see you Fred.

WHITFIELD: It's really critical and difficult time. But how do we approach this? Are we waiting for our kids to invite the conversation tell us what they're thinking about? Or do we need to just get in there and say, hey, this is what's happening?

BAUMSTEIN: We don't want to wait, because just -- because they're not talking about it doesn't mean they're not thinking about it, and doesn't mean they don't know about it. So we want to get ahead of it. We want to have conversations. And at the same time, acknowledge that it's scary and confusing for us. And it's really tempting to want to avoid anything that feels challenging or confusing, because we're not sure if we can handle it.

But what we know is that when we talk openly about things, kids actually feel more secure and comforted. So even though we're scared, we're going to create more anxiety, and we're going to put thoughts into their heads. It's not true when we create an environment where we can talk very openly about this stuff. Kids feel more at peace.

WHITFIELD: So how do we get started? Is it as simple as asking them what they're thinking? What's on, you know, their mind? What are they thinking? What are their worries? BAUMSTEIN: You got it?

WHITFIELD: Wow, OK.

BAUMSTEIN: That's it is we really sometimes want to avoid the conversation, because we're not sure how to get into it.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

BAUMSTEIN: But the best place to start is asking what they know. We don't want to make assumptions because what might be top of mind for us might not even be a priority for them. So start by asking what they know and what's on their mind. And really give them a chance to lead the conversation. Because then you can focus, you can focus on what's most important to them and figure out the best way to support them.

WHITFIELD: Kids just want to know that they're safe too.

BAUMSTEIN: Yes.

WHITFIELD: Because that's instinctively going to be one of their questions is what's happening there, is that going to happen to us? What would we do?

BAUMSTEIN: Right.

WHITFIELD: And sometimes we didn't really know the answer to that.

BAUMSTEIN: Absolutely. And we need to acknowledge that and give ourselves permission not to have all the answers, which feels scary. And, again, we want to avoid that because it's uncomfortable. But kids know when we're lying. They're really smart. And they're very perceptive. So we need to think about how do we be upfront with them and let them know, this is very complicated. And I'm not sure but maybe let's look into it together, or I'm going to get back to you in a little bit.

But the big thing here is we do not want to lie to them. Because if they figure out we're not telling the truth, they're going to find the information elsewhere. And we don't want them going away from us when things are big and scary. We want them to come toward us.

WHITFIELD: And what about for the household, who says, you know what, we're just not going to talk about it at all, you know, I don't want to deal with it. Is that problematic?

BAUMSTEIN: It's definitely problematic, because this is one example of things that are happening today and in a child's life throughout the years. But this is about feelings. This is about helping kids navigate through them, not around them. And this is lifelong, something that they need to practice. So we could avoid the shore but what about the next thing? And what about the thing that happens at school tomorrow?

WHITFIELD: Right. Because they -- when they go to school, the kids are talking, it's amazing the kind of conversations that they're having. And perhaps you really need to be equipping your kid with the right facts so that they are not led astray by other kids who, you know, perhaps have are hearing different things.

BAUMSTEIN: You're absolutely right.

WHITFIELD: It might not all be right.

BAUMSTEIN: Right? And a lot of it probably isn't right.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

BAUMSTEIN: So we want to listen for that and correct any misinformation. But really, again, use this as an opportunity to teach them that we can create a space where all feelings are OK and normal to talk about. Again, we get so anxious about this kind of stuff and we want to avoid it. But it doesn't take the feeling of way. So if a kid is saying I'm scared about it, we don't want to immediately jump to don't be scared, we're safe.

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WHITFIELD: Yes.

BAUMSTEIN: Because that shuts down the conversation.

WHITFIELD: Help them with the process of understanding why they might be safe.

BAUMSTEIN: And also that it's OK to feel that way.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

BAUMSTEIN: This is a really normal response to something that is scary and confusing. Fear is normal. So we don't want to minimize and dismiss it and teach them to feel shame, because it doesn't take away the feeling. It's just going to teach them not to talk about it.

WHITFIELD: Oh, that's a great point. They should feel confident about all of the feelings that they're having.

BAUMSTEIN: Right, exactly.

WHITFIELD: Yes. Jody Baumstein, so good to see you, thank you so much.

BAUMSTEIN: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: And the next hour begins right after this. We'll take you back to Ukraine.

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