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Russia Set To Ramp Up Strikes On Key Population Centers; Putin Likens Sanctions To "Declaration Of War"; Biden, Zelensky Speak At Length As Russian Invasion Rages; Interview With Rep. Mike Turner (R- OH); Gas Prices Spiking Across U.S.; Ukrainian President Urges Ukrainians To Keep Up Resistance; U.S. Working With Poland On Possibility Of Providing Fighter Jets To Ukraine. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired March 05, 2022 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEPHEN J. RAPP, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR-AT-LARGE, WAR CRIMES ISSUES: And I think in the end he'll make them quite dispensable as the leader of Russians.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on-camera): The Russians have categorically denied committing war crimes in Ukraine -- Wolf.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Brian Todd, reporting, thanks very much.

And to our viewers, thanks for watching, Anderson, and thanks for joining us here in THE SITUATION ROOM. I know you'll have a special two-hour edition tomorrow of "ANDERSON COOPER 360" tomorrow night, Sunday night, 9:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

CNN NEWSROOM with Pamela Brown starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRES. VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY, UKRAINE (through translator): Ukrainians in all of our cities where the enemy invaded go on the offensive, go out on the streets. We need to fight every time we have an opportunity.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: These people have been under bombardment for seven straight days and are only just leaving their homes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cease-fire took place only for 30 minutes. After that, Russian troop started continuing shelling of Mariupol. They used everything they have.

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Here in Zaporizhzhia there are deep concerns over the future of the nuclear power station that has been captured by Russian troops. CNN obtained this extraordinary video of people in the control center sending out appeals to the attacking Russian troops. JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's not only an attack on

Ukraine. It's attack on the security of Europe and global peace and stability.

PRES. VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIA (through translator): The sanctions being introduced they are equivalent to a declaration of war now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody wants to be independent, to be free. I pray every day. I pray every night.

DMYTRO KULEBA, UKRAINIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Ukraine will win this war anyway because this is the people's war for their land and we defend for the right cause.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM on this Saturday.

Russian President Vladimir Putin issuing a chilling warning to the West. The international sanctions against him and his country are, quote, "the equivalent of a declaration of war." Putin made that announcement while at Aeroflot, Russia's largest airline owned primarily by the government, crippled by airspace closures from the West.

Now compare this cheery image with the horrors unfolding in Ukraine. We need to warn you that these images are disturbing.

Inside this blood-stained blanket is a little boy. 18 months old, barely a toddler, tragically the hospital workers couldn't save him. He was wounded by shelling despite Russia declaring a cease-fire in his town Mariupol, city officials there say Russian forces are targeting civilians.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEPUTY MAYOR SERGEI ORLOV, MARIUPOL, UKRAINE: The Russian army start to bomb their places where people connected half an hour ago. So the targets of the artillery was to make -- to kill as much citizens of Mariupol as possible.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Ukraine is fighting back. This video from its armed services supposedly shows a Russian helicopter being shot down north of the capital. CNN is unable to verify when this happened.

Those are Russian gunshots fired as a warning to Ukrainians marching peacefully against the unprovoked attack on their homeland. Another video posted on social media shows at least one person hit by gunfire. CNN has geolocated and confirmed the authenticity of the video.

Ukraine's president is calling on his countrymen to maintain their fierce resistance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENSKY (through translator): Ukrainians, in all our cities where the enemy invaded, go on the offensive, go out on the streets. We need to fight every time we have an opportunity.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And here are other developments unfolding today in the crisis. CNN has learned the U.S. aircraft carrier Harry S. Truman is in the northern Aegean Sea this week. Its mission at least in part to ensure it can conduct flight operations from there if tensions spike.

Ukraine's president held a private Zoom call with a bipartisan group of U.S. senators and he asked for more air power and a no-fly zone over Ukraine. More than 1.2 million Ukrainians have fled their country. Jordan's government says it will allow entry to Ukrainians who have relatives living inside the kingdom.

And a mind-boggling reality check. Ukraine's refugee crisis may only be in its early stages. There have been predictions of up to 5 million people displaced. Each one of them carrying just a few belongings and the unbearable weight of an uncertain future.

CNN's Clarissa Ward has their story.

[19:05:07]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WARD (voice-over): For seven days the Kyiv suburb of Irpin has been pummeled by Russian strikes, and you can see it in the faces of those leaving. Exhaustion, fear and gratitude to the soldiers helping them flee. This bridge was downed by the Ukrainians to prevent Russian forces from getting into the city center. Now it's yet another hurdle people must cross.

(On-camera): There has been a steady barrage of artillery since we got here just over an hour ago, and a never-ending stream of people, just desperately trying to cross to safety.

(Voice-over): Natalya (PH) tells us she was injured just a couple of hours earlier.

We tried to get some stuff out of our apartment, she says, and a shell or something hit and I got hit by shrapnel.

Still in shock, she dismisses the pain and walks away unaided. Others need more assistance. Soldiers carry a makeshift stretcher to ferry an elderly woman to safety.

President Putin has said his army is not targeting civilians, but the exodus from Irpin tells a different story. Everyone steps in where they can, including us. An elderly woman calls out for help. Clearly confused by the chaotic situation. We take one of her bags.

(On-camera): So people are obviously incredibly affected by this situation. They're frightened. They're exhausted. They're on edge.

(Voice-over): They leave behind whatever they cannot carry with no sense of when they will return.

A woman approaches, completely overcome.

(On-camera): She said I'm afraid. (Speaking foreign language)

(Voice-over): For what, she cries? For what? This is just one suburb in one city who has felt the wrath of Russia's onslaught. Artillery, missiles and fighter jets.

The planes were flying and I just covered my ears, Olga Kudlai (PH) tells us.

(On-camera): So she's saying that now she doesn't even know where she's going to go next.

(Voice-over): She has lived in Irpin for 45 years. It was so beautiful, and now it's destroyed, she says. What are they trying to achieve? To bring us to our knees?

But against all odds, 10 days into this war, Ukraine is still standing. A woman waits to be evacuated, trembling, but resilient. We will overcome everything, she says.

For the people of Irpin, the journey is just beginning. They're loaded on to busses to the train station. From there, they don't know where they will go.

Clarissa Ward, CNN, Irpin.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Our thank you to Clarissa for bringing these important stories to the forefront.

Well, take a look here. That is a Russian fighter jet tumbling out of the sky and plunging to earth. This video posted on social media apparently captures the moment that Ukrainian forces brought down the aircraft in a stunning David versus Goliath moment. CNN has geolocated and verified the authenticity of the video.

And joining me now retired Army Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, a CNN military analyst, who was the commanding general for Europe and the 7th Army.

Hi, General. So the reports from inside Ukraine is that Russia is showing little interest in sparing civilians and you're seeing that in the video, right? You say it is very clear that war crimes are being committed. How so?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, we can see the type of weapons they're using, cluster munitions, thermobaric bombs. They have already used those. We've seen evidence of that. I've seen cluster munitions falling on some of the (INAUDIBLE) within Ukraine but they're also focusing, Pamela, exclusively on the civilian population. When you look at what the International Committee of the Red Cross has said institutes a war crime, the Russian forces have violated about eight different categories. They have attacked civilians. They have attacked civilian infrastructure like hospitals and schools and neighborhoods.

[19:10:04]

They have used weapons that are not supposed to be used in warfare, and they have done things like capture prisoners from the civilian population and used those as shields or as hostages. So those, and many other things tell me that they are executing a campaign of scorched earth to try and intimidate Ukraine's population much like they've done in the past. We have seen multiple times in places like Syria and in their own republics like Chechnya.

BROWN: Yes. I mean, we've seen how brutal it can be and just the disregard for human life. You had mentioned the thermobaric bombs. We had talked about that last weekend when the CNN crew saw them going into Ukraine, but do we know if those have actually been used? Those are the vacuum bombs that suck in all the oxygen in the atmosphere. Do we know if they have been used? I just want to be clear on that.

HERTLING: No. It's a good point, and no, we do not know for sure if they have been used.

BROWN: OK.

HERTLING: There are indicators that they have based on explosive pipes and films. But they can't pinpoint to those bombs. And in fact, one of the weapon systems have actually been captured by Ukraine's forces so that's also a good sign, but no, you're absolutely right. There are indicators that they have employed those, but certainly we don't have factual proof of that.

BROWN: OK. As we mentioned earlier today Ukrainian President Zelensky again called for U.S. assistance in establishing a no-fly zone in Ukraine as well as more military support. Republican Ben Sasse was among the bipartisan group of senators taking part in that Zoom call.

Here's his response to that request, saying, "Ukraine needs air power urgently and America should send it. Zelensky's message is simple, close the skies or give us planes. Let's be clear-eyed about our options. A no-fly zone means sending American pilots into combat against Russian jets and air defenses in a battle between nuclear powers that could spiral out of control quickly."

So he goes on to suggest that sending Ukrainians planes, helicopters and UAVs to Kyiv instead. What do you think of that, instead of enforcing a no-fly zone, sending UAVs, helicopters, planes so that the Ukrainians could potentially enforce one of their own?

HERTLING: Well, as President Zelensky has said send us the type of equipment that we have used in the past, that our military has used which was when they were part of the Warsaw Pact. So they have probably a lot of pilots who can fly Russian-type aircraft like the SU's and the MiGs, so that would be acceptable and boy, wouldn't it be ironic, Pamela, if suddenly the NATO countries were providing lend- leased equipment much like the United States did to the Soviet Union during World War II to get them out of the grasp of the Nazis?

That would be a very ironic thing but it would also very challenging because I think Mr. Putin would contest that. He would see that as an attempt by NATO to reinforce Ukraine perhaps in a non-Kinetic way, so even that is a little bit dangerous but I would certainly be one that would suggest that that's a whole lot better than what I would consider a ludicrous approach of establishing a no-fly zone.

BROWN: All right, General, stay right there because we have some breaking news from the White House. I want to go to Arlette Saenz -- Arlette.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela, we learned just moments ago that President Biden spoke with Ukrainian President Zelensky within the past hour. The two men spent about 32 minutes on the phone according to the White House and it comes after Zelensky held that call with U.S. lawmakers a bit earlier today where he issued these requests, including calling for the imposition of a no-fly zone in Ukraine, something that the U.S. and NATO has been resistant to do so far, worried that it can provoke a full-fledged war in Europe.

And he also in that call with lawmakers talked about the need for Eastern European countries to send fighter jets into Ukraine. We know that the U.S. has been speaking with European allies about that possibility and we are told tonight that one of the countries the U.S. has been speaking with about that is Poland. Those discussions are under way. The U.S. also consulting other allies and trying to determine whether there are any back fill options that the U.S. could provide to Poland if they did send fighter jets into Ukraine.

So we are still awaiting a readout from the White House of this call between Biden and Zelensky, but these two leaders have been in frequent contact over the course of this 10-day war so far. On Thursday was the last time they spoke and again tonight they're speaking while President Biden is spending the weekend up at his home in Delaware -- Pamela.

BROWN: All right. Arlette Saenz, from the White House, thanks so much for that update. That is the fifth time that President Biden and President Zelensky have spoken since the invasion 10 days ago.

[19:15:00]

I want to go back to General Hertling. And General, I want to go to you with a viewer question. We've been getting so many terrific questions from viewers. A lot is on their mind right now. And here's one of the viewer questions. Do you think Russia's intension was to show its influence in our world today as a super power?

HERTLING: Absolutely. Pamela, I've been studying Russia for at least 30 years. I've had a lot of time in the old Soviet Union and even in the newer Russia. I've seen their exercises, I've seen what they've done, they do have as a force an inferiority complex. They're a smaller nation than during the days of World War II. They have an almost singularly focused economy dedicated to oil and gas.

Their former Warsaw Pact allies want to nothing to do with Russia anymore because of what they experienced as part of the Warsaw Pact. They were treated like crap. And they have a military that's very large and it has a quantity all of its own which makes for quality. But truthfully, all the intimidating equipment they had, and I've seen some of it up close and personal, it's modern, but their soldiers and their general officer corps are absolutely incompetent across the board.

They have one-year conscripts. They use their force as more of police state forces, especially their airborne forces are almost riot police, if you will, and the rest of their force trains over a year's period of time, if they're conscripts, a little bit longer, if they're not. But they do not have the sergeants like the U.S. military has or many of the more modern armies in the world and so therefore their leadership is terrible.

So yes, across the board there is an inferiority complex by Mr. Putin and I think he's trying to re-establish it. I don't think, I know for a fact because he said several times. He's trying to re-establish the old Soviet Union.

BROWN: Yes. And it's so interesting what you say about the Russian military because we are seeing that in real time with the invasion, right? I mean, even the 40-mile-long convoy, the Russian convoy has been stalled outside of Kyiv for days. It's just, it's really fascinating to see, and of course, also they're up against the Ukrainians which have really defied expectations in terms of their resolve and ability to fight back.

General Mark Hertling, thank you so much.

HERTLING: Thank you, Pamela.

BROWN: Well, we all have questions about the situation in Ukraine. Send me yours via Twitter or Instagram, and I'll try to post them to the experts joining me tonight and tomorrow.

And our breaking news coverage continues in a moment. Russian President Vladimir Putin calling sanctions akin to a, quote, "declaration of war." Representative Mike Turner who's on the Armed Services Committee and the Intelligence Committee joins me next to react.

And turning the screws on Putin and his wealthy allies. Italian police seize villas, houses, and yachts work more than $150 million from Russian oligarchs.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:22:24]

BROWN: As Russia ramps up attacks across Ukraine, the White House is facing bipartisan pressure to crack down on Russian energy imports here in the U.S.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): Energy has become a weapon of war for Putin.

SEN. LISA MURKOWSKI (R-AK): We are not going to send Russia any more U.S. dollars to help them kill innocent people. This bill will do it.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: The White House so far is resisting those calls, but it hasn't taken it off the table.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We don't have a strategic interest in reducing the global supply of energy, and that would raise prices at the gas pump for the American people.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Joining me now is Congressman Mike Turner of Ohio. He's been an outspoken proponent of a ban on Russian oil imports and he is also the top Republican on the House Intelligence Committee.

Hi, Congressman. Thanks for joining us. So you want to ban Russian imports.

REP. MIKE TURNER (R-OH): Pamela, thanks for having me.

BROWN: But this, of course, is a time that gas prices are already high. Millions of Americans are feeling the pinch. Are you confident Americans would be willing to make even more of a sacrifice at the pump to punish Russia?

TURNER: Well, Pamela, as you showed in the beginning -- the opening of your show, the human cost of this unprovoked war by Putin against a democratic nation and the inhumane outcomes that are occurring, we should not be Putin's customer and right now we are, as we're trying to support the Ukrainians and as they try to fight for their nation.

You know, this is an administration unfortunately from day one that's sort of have been at war on themselves on the oil and gas industry, and so, you know, we need to increase domestic production. We need certainly to ban Russian oil from importing in the United States.

BROWN: Zelensky has repeatedly called for the U.S. to implement a no- fly zone over Ukraine. Take a listen to what Putin said about this today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PUTIN (through translator): Any movements in this direction will be regarded by us as participation in the military conflict from a country from which territory threats will be posed towards us. We will immediately regard them as parties to the military conflict regardless of which organization they're members of.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: What is your reaction to Ukraine's request for a no-fly zone and this latest threat from Putin?

TURNER: Well, unfortunately, I mean, we should have had weapons in there for the past year or two prior to this. It would have given Ukraine the ability to defend themselves against aircraft. We didn't do that. President Zelensky has said, you know, where he's paying a price because weapons did not get in in time to be able to protect his country.

[19:25:05]

TURNER: So he's calling for a no-fly zone certainly which would protect Ukraine, but at the same time, this would be placing American planes against Russian planes which would be an escalation. Now President Zelensky has called for weapons that would give him an ability to attack, take out aircraft and at the same time for aircraft themselves, there is a movement to try to provide him those aircraft and I think that certainly would be a step in the right direction, allow Ukraine to defend themselves, give them what they need and allow them to fight Russia.

BROWN: What more can you tell us about that efforts to provide jets, for example, to the Ukrainians?

TURNER: Well, there are ongoing negotiations between the United States and other nations as to how to accomplish that. Obviously, it's a logistical issue but as we've seen from President Zelensky and his military and the Ukrainians, they have the will to fight. If we give them what they need they will continue to defend their country and that's what we need to be doing at this point.

BROWN: And certainly, there has been criticism that the administration didn't send more weapons before this, but the administration, as you know, has given, if I'm correct, about a billion dollars over the last year, had been providing some arms before the actual invasion occurred, but certainly as you say, there are those who say that it wasn't enough, and Zelensky is still pleading for more help.

U.S. officials say the Biden administration is sharing intelligence with Ukrainians at a frenetic pace in response to your counterpart in the Senate saying intelligence isn't being shared quickly enough. Are you satisfied with the rate of intel being shared?

TURNER: Well, I think it is increasing. I mean, certainly members of Congress are in touch with people in Ukraine, other, you know, people with the military and also parliamentarians. Initially we were hearing complaints that the intelligence they're receiving was stale, not that they weren't receiving it but by the time they received it, it was not actionable. And at a time of war you need actionable intelligence.

The intelligence community and certainly the Department of Defense has indicated that they have stepped up that pace, that they believe that they are now sharing it at a time that makes a difference. We're certainly beginning to hear from the Ukrainians and some usefulness of that intelligence that hopefully will help them continue to hold Kyiv and to continue to fight the Russians.

BROWN: There's been a lot of discussion about Putin's mental health. Some lawmakers have raised concerns that his mental health could be deteriorating. You are the ranking member on the House Intel Committee. From the information you have seen, is that a valid concern?

TURNER: I think it's always a valid concern when you have someone who undertakes an unprovoked war, begins to restrict information to their own country about that war, attacks innocent people, children, and these types of actions that we're seeing from Putin certainly are not those that meet the international standards of what we believe is normal behavior, but nonetheless, he has been warning us for years that this is exactly what he intended to do.

This is not like he just woke up on a Wednesday and decided to invade Ukraine. He's been telling us for years. In fact during the Obama- Biden administration, he as you know invaded and annexed a portion of Ukraine from Crimea. So this has been an evolution that we have seen where he has said he wants to re-establish the territory of the Soviet Union and Ukraine is certainly a part of that.

BROWN: Right. And he has been a brutal, murderous thug, dictator for many, many years, right?

TURNER: All those things.

BROWN: But specifically right now in this, you know, given what's going on in Ukraine and the intelligence you've seen, have you seen anything that would make you even more concerned about his mental health deteriorating?

TURNER: Well, again, I think what we're seeing in the pictures that you showed in the opening of the show that are so moving. I mean, these are the outcomes that this man is choosing. He knows what he's doing. You know, anyone who pulls tanks up and begins firing at a nuclear reactor, you have to be concerned about what their overall stability is, what level of evil that we're seeing that we've not seen since World War II.

BROWN: Really quick. Putin is ratcheting up the rhetoric. A lot of Americans are concerned, frankly. Is America prepared to defend against the use of Russian nuclear weapons?

TURNER: Right. Well, I think people should be very confident that the United States is able to defend itself. In this instance, Vladimir Putin picked a nation that does not have the wherewithal to defend itself, is not a NATO member. It is not as if he is, you know, openly planning on attacks to the United States and our nuclear deterrent, our military force, the strength of our military might, certainly is a deterrent but I think would cause Vladimir Putin to think twice before he looked up from Ukraine where he's having greater difficulty than he thought and said I'm ready to take on the United States. BROWN: All right. Congressman Mike Turner.

[19:30:00]

Thank you for coming on and for your time tonight.

Well, in the past two days, gas prices in the United States have jumped 19 cents a gallon. There hasn't been a spike like that since Hurricane Katrina.

Gas is already reaching seven bucks a gallon in some places, so how bad could it get? CNN's Camila Bernal will explain.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: A quick update now on today's developments in Ukraine. These new images from one of several battlefields.

Ukraine's military says this is the moment that they shot down a Russian helicopter. CNN's unable to verify when this happened.

And Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky on a Zoom call with U.S. lawmakers says his country urgently needs more assistance from the U.S. including the establishment of a no-fly zone as Russia bombards his country from the air.

Russia's invasion of Ukraine is hitting Americans in the wallet. Gas prices now surging to levels we haven't seen in almost 10 years.

[19:35:12]

BROWN: Eleven states you see in red on this map, plus the District of Columbia are now paying more than four bucks a gallon.

CNN's Camila Bernal is in Los Angeles. Camila, this is not what people in California want to hear. It is the first state ever to see the average price of gas over $5.00 a gallon. How is that going over?

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's not going well. It is absolutely not what people want to see here in California, and frankly, everywhere in the United States. In this gas station where I am now, it is $6.95 for regular gas. The reaction you're getting from people is just shock.

For premium, it is $7.55. There are just no words for those prices.

And you do have to keep in mind that California prices are higher than any other state in the nation, but the average here is already above $5.00. The national average at the moment $3.92, and experts believe that we can get to that $4.00 average very soon, of course, in part because Russia is a major producer of oil and Ukraine, a key energy transit hub.

Since Russia's invasion of Ukraine, we've seen prices go up by 37 cents; in the last two days, an increase of 19 cents and that makes a huge difference for a lot of people, especially people who rely on gas for their jobs, say rideshare drivers, for example.

I talked to one man, Benjamin Valdez, he says he works at least three days a week and says he is greatly impacted by these prices. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN VALDEZ, UBER DRIVER: If I drive 200 miles, I'm spending $50.00 in gas, and if I make $150.00 to $200.00 in that night, I'm cutting at least one-third of my expense in gas alone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERNAL: And Benjamin says that it makes such a difference for his budget and for his everyday life.

It's not just him, it is taxi drivers, truckers, and really anyone who owns a car, who has to commute, is feeling this and the worst part, the worrisome part, Pam, is that it could get worse.

BROWN: That is the concern. Camila Bernal, thank you.

Breaking news coming into the CNN NEWSROOM, right now, we have just learned that the U.S. is working with Poland on the possibility of providing fighter jets to Ukraine.

We're going to go live to the White House when we come back. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:42:19]

BROWN: We have breaking news now from the White House. Let us bring in CNN's Arlette Saenz. Arlette, what's going on?

SAENZ: Well, Pamela, we know that there have been ongoing conversations about what kind of military and security assistance can be provided to Ukraine, and we're learning tonight that the U.S. has been talking with Poland about the possibility of Poland sending fighter jets into Ukraine.

Now this comes as Ukrainian President Zelensky has really stepped up his call for European -- Eastern European countries to send fighter jets into the country.

Now, a White House spokesperson told me that the U.S. is also weighing what possible backfill options there might be if Poland does, in fact, send fighter jets over into Ukraine.

We know that the U.S. has been talking with a host of European partners about this possibility, and the person that I was speaking with tonight, also said that, ultimately, this will be a sovereign decision up to any country whether they want to send fighter jets into Ukraine, but it's also one that faces a lot of logistical hurdles, including how exactly to transport those planes from a country like Poland into Ukraine.

But we know earlier today that Zelensky was really pressing U.S. lawmakers to press those Eastern European countries to provide those fighter jets to try to open up those avenues as the Ukrainian military needs so much more force in order to combat Russia.

Now tonight, we also know that President Biden was just on the phone within the past hour with Ukrainian President Zelensky, and according to a tweet from the Ukrainian President, he said that they talked about the issues of security, financial support for Ukraine, as well as the continuation of sanctions against Russia. That is something that Zelensky has also been pushing for, throughout the day stepping up the sanctions, including sanctioning banning or limiting essentially, oil and gas from Russia directly.

So right now, we know that the U.S. has been in these conversations with allies about that military assistance that is being provided and what could be provided in the future to Ukraine and that one of those countries that they're speaking with is Poland -- Pamela.

BROWN: All right, thanks so much, Arlette.

Let's bring back in retired Army Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, CNN military analyst who was the Commanding General for Europe and the Seventh Army.

So what do you make of this development, General?

HERTLING: This is fascinating, Pamela. It is lethal aid given to a country that's at war. As I said during the last time we were talking just a few minutes ago, there is some real irony in this because it is sort of a Lend Lease Program for those historians that are watching you tonight the use of U.S. equipment that went to the Soviet Union during World War Two, the huge program there.

[19:45:10]

HERTLING: This is exactly what is happening, giving it to Poland, or, excuse me, Poland giving it to Ukraine. But what's also fascinating if it is MiG aircraft or Sukhoi aircraft, it would certainly also double the irony because all of that is former Soviet type equipment from the Warsaw Pact.

There are some issues here that are fascinating, too, Pamela. The first thing I would say is, you know, Poland and Ukraine has formed a veritable bond in the middle of Europe.

You know, during the fighting in Afghanistan, they in fact, had a unit together. We affectionately called it the Pol-Ukr Brigade that I believe, if my memory serves me, they were in Helmand Province. So they fought together, the Polish in the Ukrainians under the International Security Assistance Force, the NATO force that was in Afghanistan.

Secondly, what I will tell you, as Arlette just mentioned, you know, what is Poland going to get out of this? Are they continuing to modernize their force? Will they get different kinds of aircraft to replace these that are coming out of storage, the MiGs will go to Poland, excuse me, the MiGs will go to Ukraine.

Will Poland get F-16 or F-22s? What will happen there?

From my time in Europe, every time I went to Poland and talked with the Ambassador there, they were always trying -- the Polish people were always trying to get more U.S. military equipment.

The last thing I'll say, though is it's a little bit -- it has a little bit of a potential for further escalation. Certainly, Mr. Putin is not going to be real happy about this. But you also have to consider not just the airplanes, you know, the transfer of the fixed- wing aircraft, but you also have to talk about where are they going to land these aircrafts? How are they going to maintain them?

What kind of fuel are they going to supply to the Ukrainians from Poland? What kind of deals are going to be struck there? And most importantly, going back to what I said just a minute ago, how is Mr. Putin going to take this? Is he going to see this as a NATO contribution to Ukraine and will he lump all of NATO together in terms of supporting the actions by Ukrainian military?

BROWN: Yes, that is a big question. He has clearly been ratcheting up his rhetoric saying today that a no-fly zone, for example, would be entering into a military confrontation. So that certainly raises the question how he would react to this and there are so many questions from a logistical standpoint. But fascinating development, nonetheless, we'll continue to track this.

Thank you so much, Lieutenant General Mark Hertling.

Ukraine's President wants U.S. lawmakers to issue harsher sanctions against Russia as this invasion drags on. But will the Biden administration go along with that? CNN Global Affairs analyst, Susan Glasser, joins me next to talk about it.

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[19:52:21]

BROWN: Updating you now on our breaking news, we have just learned from the White House that the U.S. is working with Poland on the possibility of providing fighter jets to Ukraine.

We're also awaiting a readout of the President's phone call with the Ukrainian President, and of course, we will bring that to you as soon as we get it.

I want to discuss now with CNN global affairs analyst, Susan Glasser.

Hi, Susan.

So how do you think Putin will respond to this latest development that the U.S. and Poland are trying to figure out how to send jets to Ukraine? SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, look, I mean, you know, what you're seeing here is everybody improvising on the fly with enormous amount of, you know, intensive diplomacy to try to figure out as conditions change.

One thing here is that it's a recognition that Putin's plan, his initial plan has failed. It is extraordinary that we're more than a week into this war in Ukraine. And in fact, the Ukrainian Force is still flying, and so there still is the possibility that we're even talking about this as a measure of how much Putin has not yet succeeded in the basics of his war plan, because without air superiority, his forces, obviously, are at an enormous risk.

You know, Putin's comments today were very worrisome, as they have been all along suggesting that he's just willy-nilly creating new red lines, and that is a possibility. He echoed the concern you heard from President Biden, about a no-fly zone being a nonstarter because Putin has been very clear about that.

So the question is, would this be a way around that wouldn't trigger that red zone -- that red line for Vladimir Putin? I don't know. I mean, really, Putin also pointed out that the sanctions that have already been imposed on Russia are the equivalent in some ways of war by the U.S. and NATO countries.

And so, you know, what worries me is that Putin may already think that he is at war with the United States and other allies.

BROWN: Yes, I mean, that's certainly what he indicated, right, by his view of the sanctions. So, how should we look at that? How concerned should we be if that is indeed his actual viewpoint? He actually believes he is at war with the U.S.

GLASSER: I think we should be extremely concerned. Because, again, you know, arguably, he has been viewing us in a much more adversarial way for a long time. And you know, if somebody thinks they're in a war with you, but you don't think you're going to war with them, you're still potentially in a war with them, and I think that's the worry right now.

These economic sanctions are devastating. They are the equivalent of blowing up the Russian economy in ways that will have catastrophic impacts and already are in that society and so you know, in many ways it is tantamount to war.

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GLASSER: And so the question is, what next? We don't know, because obviously Putin has bitten off an enormous and incomplete task with Ukraine itself. So it's not like he's in an immediate position to, you know, be marching troops into some other country given that he has not succeeded in gobbling up yet the country that he is in the process of attacking.

BROWN: And many of the sanctions are hitting Putin's cronies, and we just went through -- we had some comments from these powerful Russian oligarchs decrying the bloodshed in Ukraine. Do you see any scenario where Putin could feel pressure from the oligarchs to change course?

GLASSER: You know, I mean, look, he is obviously going to be feeling the heat. But the question is, whether he cares. In my own view, if you cared about the opinion of the oligarchs, he would not have launched this war in the first place. They certainly would have understood that the potential consequences to them of sanctions and the like, would be very negative. Businessmen usually like to be allowed to keep doing business.

So my guess is that, you know, unfortunately, it tells us that Vladimir Putin was already disregarding their views. And in that sense, I don't think there are sanctions right now that are going to be steering him off of his course, at least in the short term.

BROWN: All right, Susan, this is all very unsettling to say the least. Thank you.

GLASSER: Thank you very much.

BROWN: Up next, remarkable images from Ukraine. Some women now have no option but to give birth in underground and bomb shelters. That is just ahead.

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BROWN: As Kyiv continues being assaulted by Russian bombs and missiles, Ukrainian women are being forced to give birth in maternity hospital cellars.

Most of this hospital staff, they haven't left the building since February 24th. Pregnant women laboring for hours only to be interrupted by air raid sirens urging them to seek shelter below.

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ALENA SHINKAR, PREGNANT IN KYIV CELLAR: We are living in real hell. I could never imagine that something like that can happen in 21st Century.

I saw you know women are giving birth just in here, in the basement, and they were all in blood because they'd had for example C-section, and then again the alarm started and they need to go down.

So basically, they didn't even have time to lie after the C-section. It's terrible. It's terrible.

Hopefully this one will see peace.

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BROWN: That mom was admitted to the hospital two weeks ago for pregnancy complications, and we just hope they are both doing as well as they can right now.

A new hour of NEWSROOM starts right now.

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