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Ukrainian President Warns Russia Plans to Bomb Odessa; Ukrainians Beat Back Russians in Mykolaiv But Civilian Toll Grows; Marian ZABLOTSKY:, Ukrainian Parliament Member, Discusses Zelenskyy Refusing to Leave Kyiv Despite Increasing Attacks & U.S., Europe Contingency Plan If Does Leave; Study: Amazon May Be Near Tipping Point of Shifting to Grassy Savannah. Aired 1:30-2p ET
Aired March 07, 2022 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[13:32:39]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: I'm Anderson Cooper in Lviv, Ukraine.
Ukrainian President Zelenskyy said that Odessa, the country's third- largest city in the south, is next on Putin's hit list.
He warns Russia is preparing to bomb the major port city, which is on the Black Sea, adding that it would be a war crime, in his opinion.
CNN international security editor, Nick Paton Walsh, is there for us.
Nick, how are things in Odessa? You have been there now for more than this past week. We've seen people putting up barricades, sandbags around the shore to try to prevent an amphibious assault.
What happened today?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Today, we had a couple of bangs in the city. Unclear what they were for in this urban environment. Hard to tell.
Right now, after a couple of siren soundings during the day, it is startlingly, utterly, deafly quiet.
And that contributes to the sense of edge because of the president's warning. Unclear what intelligence was informing that.
And the general sense that if you are going to try and exert influence over Ukraine and its economy, then you do need to try and have control of this. It's a major strategic port, the third-largest city.
A lot of the pressure building along the coast of the Black Sea here, specifically around the port town of Mykolaiv, to the east.
That saw residential areas hit by missiles. One dead, three injured, I was told by a hospital official today.
And also increased violence between the Ukrainian military and the Russians, who have been pushing back. But it's gone back on forth over the weekend with Russia's progress severely stalled.
I should warn you in the report you're about to see, there are some graphic images of the war.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PATON WALSH (voice-over): Putin needs it, but he's having real trouble getting it.
Drive to the last Ukrainian position outside the port city of Mykolaiv, and you can see the mess made of the Kremlin's plans.
Even the Z Russian propaganda says is from denazification they ridiculously claim to be an acting is charred. Its occupants captured or dead.
UNIDENTIFIED SOLDIER: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
PATON WALSH: Their missiles on display --
UNIDENTIFIED SOLDIER: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
PATON WALSH: -- along with their names.
(on camera): It says, "The army of Russia."
(voice-over): Further down this road are the rest of the Russian tanks.
UNIDENTIFIED SOLDIER: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
PATON WALSH: But one was left behind. And now farmers, pensioners and bemused locals are picking it over.
[13:35:04]
UNIDENTIFIED SOLDIER: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
PATON WALSH: The model may be newer, but the empire it seeks to restore is long gone.
UNIDENTIFIED SOLDIER: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
PATON WALSH (on camera): He is just saying, it goes forward, but doesn't turn around.
(voice-over): The same can't be said for its crew, who fled.
The Ukrainians here a little gleeful this keeps happening.
(SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
PATON WALSH (on camera): That they left the tank or --
UNIDENTIFIED SOLDIER: They needed to do that.
PATON WALSH: Right, OK. They didn't have much of a choice there.
UNIDENTIFIED SOLDIER: Yes, they didn't another choice.
PATON WALSH (voice-over): Then a warning.
(on camera): There's a helicopter coming.
(voice-over): A helicopter is spotted, and we have to leave.
(on camera): Bringing up a Stinger.
(voice-over): Rushing in the weapons, this David has hit the Russian Goliath with again and again.
(CROSSTALK)
PATON WALSH: But the Kremlin is sure to impose a cost on anyone it can.
(SHOUTING)
(CROSSTALK)
PATON WALSH: Ground rockets have slammed into homes regularly.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED SOLDIER: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
(CROSSTALK)
PATON WALSH: This woman thinks she's broken her back.
UNIDENTIFIED SOLDIER: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
(CROSSTALK)
PATON WALSH: "The house collapsed on me," she says, "and then they pulled me out."
(CROSSTALK)
PATON WALSH: There are no other patients in this hospital. All the injured treated here died in their beds, we're told, including one 53- year-old man brought in on Sunday morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just here.
PATON WALSH: Across town, the rockets, apparent cluster munitions that seem to fall just anywhere.
(on camera): Another rocket landed up the street here.
(voice-over): From cars --
(CROSSTALK) PATON WALSH: -- to vegetable gardens.
UNIDENTIFIED SOLDIER: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
PATON WALSH: At the morgue, the toll is growing. At least 50 bodies, they told us. Twenty of them incinerated in a Russian missile strike on the naval port, they said.
The bodies so often of the elderly who would have survived being a Soviet citizen but not this.
Roslin (ph) has worked here 13 days straight and is from Crimea where Russian state propaganda still calls this a Special Operation against Nazis.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
(CRYING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
PATON WALSH: They show us the corpse of a Russian soldier and ask us to film him up close, which we don't do.
Loathing here set in deep and lasting with each body in the ground.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PATON WALSH: Anderson, this is fundamentally the question. As the Russian troops continue to try to blunder their way into major population centers, backed up by it seems indiscriminate shelling, what do they think they can achieve if they do gain access?
Do they intend to occupy something like Mykolaiv? You can see the absolute loathing for them already. It's hard to fathom the Kremlin strategy -- Anderson?
COOPER: Nick, for them to occupy long term, it would require untold number of forces on the ground, given the loathing, as you say, people have here for them.
PATON WALSH: Yes, this just does not make sense.
In theory, according to Western intelligence reporting before this, which was pretty accurate, frankly.
This was to be a lightning campaign to decapitate the government. A race across the country and take hold of its strategic architecture.
[13:39:58]
Instead, we are seeing these curious bids in a city like Mykolaiv to force their way in down the same roads, fail, leave behind their armor, get heavily hit, according to other videos we've seen.
Try it again and again, and then it seems in frustration or perhaps in a bid to soften the city up, so to speak. Then firing grounds and rockets and cluster munitions into those same residential areas.
It's hard to see how this can be repeated across all of Ukraine's towns. It's hard to see how that puts the Russian military anything other than even more isolated with very poor supply lines behind them.
It is coming hard to see exactly what Moscow thinks a win is here.
And hearing Kremlin officials talking about, maybe if we get Crimea recognized, the separatist republics recognized, and Ukraine saying it won't join NATO.
That, to me, seems like an extraordinary admission of how badly this may be going 13 days in -- Anderson?
COOPER: Yes. Nick Paton Walsh, appreciate your reporting. Thank you.
The man who said he is Russia's number-one target, and certainly seems to be, but President Zelenskyy, so far, is refusing to leave Ukraine as his country faces increasing attacks. More on that ahead.
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[13:45:57]
ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: President Zelenskyy is inspiring Ukrainians and really people all around the world as Russia attacks his country. He's refusing to leave Kyiv so far.
But officials tell CNN the U.S. and Europe have been talking about how they would support a government in exile still led by Zelenskyy if he had to flee.
Marian ZABLOTSKY: is a member of the Ukrainian parliament. He joins us now.
Thanks for taking the time.
President Zelenskyy has become this international symbol of Ukrainian resistance, right?
But as Russian fighters close in, does it make sense for Zelenskyy to stay put still, or should he evacuate and maybe govern from the safety of another country? What do you think?
MARIAN ZABLOTSKY, UKRAINIAN PARLIAMENT MEMBER: I'm sure that is not the choice he is considering. He's 100 percent staying put.
And, quite frankly, I think that Putin's life is in more danger than that of Zelenskyy.
Putin is definitely not adequate. I think that he is mental -- he has some sort of mental problems and he has cost his oligarchs billions and billions of dollars of wealth.
So currently, I'm sure there are a lot of people interested in Russia to get rid of Putin. Much more than any people in Ukraine than Russian army could do to Zelenskyy.
CABRERA: Zelenskyy himself says he believes he is Russia's number-one target right now in this fight.
How concerned are you about President Zelenskyy's safety right now?
ZABLOTSKY: There are, of course, concerns since Russia is able to run different strikes. We are also concerned for our safety. I know that they will definitely target members of parliament like me as well.
But currently, the city of Kyiv has turned into a fortress. There are tens of thousands of defenders of the city, including ordinary people who have taken up arms. And our military were glad to deliver arms to them.
I think, for now, it is impossible for Russians to take Kyiv.
CABRERA: Is there a contingency plan, should that happen?
ZABLOTSKY: No, we haven't discussed it. And currently, more than 90 percent of Ukrainians believe in military victory.
Your experts and your reporters on the ground are correct that Russian troops are demoralized and they have not been moving.
They have logistical problems. Morale is obviously an issue and they are suffering significant losses.
CABRERA: I do wonder, on a personal level, you said this is hard for you, for all of us. And you are a dad. You helped evacuate your child, your wife.
How is this impacting you? How are you and your family holding up? And what is your biggest fear right now?
ZABLOTSKY: My family is with me, right next to me here. They are staying with me.
Currently, working on logistics to our Army and basically we have purchased - Ukrainians themselves have purchased all the body armor that was available in E.U.
So I am extremely angry at Russian leadership and Russian people in general, at least to those two-thirds who have supported and been brainwashed by Russian media for supporting this invasion.
This is the fight to win. This is an all-in fight. And we'll definitely win it. We don't have any other choice.
CABRERA: We have the world rooting for you.
Clearly, there's a growing list of U.S. companies that are pulling out of Russia in terms of their business to protest this invasion.
Disney, Ford, Apple, Netflix, a number of credit card companies like American Express most recently, just to name a few. You say that's still not enough?
ZABLOTSKY: I have a problem with companies that pay taxes to the Russian state budget. For example, one of the biggest companies that pays money in Rubles is McDonald's, PepsiCo and others.
To be honest, I'm pretty happy with Russian soldiers smoking, drinking cola and eating junk food as much as possible. But I have problems with any company that pays money to the state budget of Russia.
[13:50:02]
So we are asking and we have sent a letter today to the U.S. Congress to think about sanctions, potential sanctions on any foreign companies that continue to pay taxes to the Kremlin regime.
CABRERA: Marian Zablotsky, I really appreciate your time today. Thank you for speaking with us and sharing your perspective.
And we wish you and your whole family and the people of Ukraine the best. We are with you.
ZABLOTSKY: Thank you very much. Thank you for your support.
CABRERA: As bombs rain down in and around Kyiv, the mayor had a hopeful message when he visited a maternity ward.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VITALY KLITSCHKO, MAYOR, KYIV, UKRAINE: Life goes on. Eighty-two kids were born just in this hospital since the beginning of the war. More Ukrainians are coming up and they will arrive daily.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: Precious moments of life amid so much desperation.
Stay right there.
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CABRERA: Welcome back.
A new study suggests the Amazon may be nearing an irreversible tipping point of shifting from a rain forest to a grassy savannah.
And I want to get to CNN chief climate correspondent, Bill Weir.
Bill, how urgent is this threat? What are scientists seeing?
BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: Super, super, super urgent, Ana.
Scientists looked at month-to-month data over the last couple of decades from satellites, just to measure how that lush tropical rain forest reacts to different climate events. [13:55:01]
And what they found is the resiliency is being shot to hell by overdevelopment, especially around humanity.
And whether it is cattle ranchers slashing and burning in Brazil or illegal goldminers in Peru, the human imprint is pushing this.
And they say -- this is the scary part -- by the time we recognize we've passed the tipping point, it will be too late to save it.
CABRERA: So it is too late.
If the Amazon actually does shift from a rain forest to a savannah, what would the world look like?
WEIR: Nothing that you could imagine. Because humans have never experienced anything like that.
It is its own weather system. It rains because the trees want it to. They pull moisture from the ground and into the sky. And they provide an early monsoon.
It affects weather patterns around the world. North America is included in that.
But it is worth noting, Ana, that, less than 10,000 years ago, the Sahara Desert was a forest. The largest lake was there.
But a little wobble in the earth's rotation changed those monsoon rains and now it is a massive desert.
Well, now we're the earth's wobble and the obvious answer to this is to stop the chainsaws as soon as possible. President Bolsonaro, of Brazil, is not apt to do that anytime soon.
But yet, another clarion call from science saying we have to ease back on Mother Nature.
CABRERA: It is important that we keep reporting on this.
Bill, thank you for all of your work and your reporting.
That does it for us today. Thank you for joining us.
Our breaking news coverage continues right after a quick break.
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